2266 replies to this topic

[MikeDC]

I have found Benadryl helps to have continuous sleep. We may have too much histamines.

[ambivalent]

NR certainly raises histamines as I reported a few years back and allergic reactions have been commonly recorded. It has also raised uric acid and I believe Hba1c (from the d-ribose). Not everyone one was effected in this way, there are links posted to histamine-nicotinamide in the thread somewhere.

 

I take NR intermittently, just recently up to 2 grams but sublingually, In fact I struggle with sleep but when started it up again I had a really good night's sleep. Sure, it doesn't taste great but its a small price to not have the problems with oral administration and the benefits of NAD+, 

 

I suspect I may be wasting my NR this way and its probably better spaced out sublingually - Mike may have same supporting evidence - in the past I took up to 7 grams in a day - there was definitely considerable benefit at these doses, but then I ran in to problems (listed above). At some point I would try high doses sublingually spread through the day, but it requires obviously a bit of organisation for a month or so. 

 

One word of advice, I always use an antibacterial mouthwash as I have a couple of abscesses and I am certain that NMN (as well as c60) have triggered them in the past. 

 

But yes, take it sublingually and see if the sleep improves.

[aribadabar]

 I have a couple of abscesses and I am certain that NMN (as well as c60) have triggered them in the past. 

 

What is the proposed mechanism via which NMN/C60 does this?

[Harkijn]

NR certainly raises histamines as I reported a few years back and allergic reactions have been commonly recorded. It has also raised uric acid and I believe Hba1c (from the d-ribose). Not everyone one was effected in this way, there are links posted to histamine-nicotinamide in the thread somewhere.

 

I take NR intermittently, just recently up to 2 grams 

Can you point us to these posts or links?  They seem to be in stark contrast with the personal experiences and safety studies that I have come across. Not many people will take 2grams, however.

[ambivalent]

Re the mechanism for NMN/C60, well no, not beyond the accepted hypothesis in c60's case that both boost mitochondrial function and bacteria of course have mitochondria. The sublingual NMN was a particularly consistent effect, (especially if I had forgotten the mouthwash)  I recall an account years ago here of c60 given to a friend of a member once who developed a runaway infection after taking it (one that was being managed for sometime) and struggled to get it under control. 

 

I will have a look through some old posts at some point - there was certainly a paper showing nicotinamide raises histamine, d-ribose to raise hba1c - the uric acid was anecdotal and hypothesized - I will take a look through.

 

Symptoms before becoming sick were foot pain and neuropathy both which persisted and worsened for months afterwards (foot pain has been reported a few times in this thread or the other long one) - I suspected this as being nerve damage through elevated hba1c (this was several grams a day)

 

There seemed very little improvement until taking sublingual NMN, which was miraculous, which I believe was shown to improve capillary function.   

 

A quick search found this:

 

https://www.longecit...-41#entry813790

 

https://www.longecit...-30#entry791307

 

I should add I had these symptoms while taking just NR and then the denouement occurred while taking NR and N+R.

 

On d-ribose and Hba1c a just found these :

 

https://www.scienced...352396417303936

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6682534/

 

Obviously, this isn't NR but it seems pretty well established (or at least was last time I looked in) NR breaks down to N+R. 

 

I will look for the nicotinamide histamine paper at some point. There have been accounts here and on amazon. From recollection both NR and nicotinamide worsened histamine levels significantly but nicotinic acid was fine.

 

 

 

[MikeDC]

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/23426511/

[Harkijn]

Re the mechanism for NMN/C60, well no, not beyond the accepted hypothesis in c60's case that both boost mitochondrial function and bacteria of course have mitochondria. The sublingual NMN was a particularly consistent effect, (especially if I had forgotten the mouthwash)  I recall an account years ago here of c60 given to a friend of a member once who developed a runaway infection after taking it (one that was being managed for sometime) and struggled to get it under control. 

 

I will have a look through some old posts at some point - there was certainly a paper showing nicotinamide raises histamine, d-ribose to raise hba1c - the uric acid was anecdotal and hypothesized - I will take a look through.

 

Symptoms before becoming sick were foot pain and neuropathy both which persisted and worsened for months afterwards (foot pain has been reported a few times in this thread or the other long one) - I suspected this as being nerve damage through elevated hba1c (this was several grams a day)

 

There seemed very little improvement until taking sublingual NMN, which was miraculous, which I believe was shown to improve capillary function.   

 

A quick search found this:

 

https://www.longecit...-41#entry813790

 

https://www.longecit...-30#entry791307

 

I should add I had these symptoms while taking just NR and then the denouement occurred while taking NR and N+R.

 

On d-ribose and Hba1c a just found these :

 

https://www.scienced...352396417303936

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6682534/

 

Obviously, this isn't NR but it seems pretty well established (or at least was last time I looked in) NR breaks down to N+R. 

 

I will look for the nicotinamide histamine paper at some point. There have been accounts here and on amazon. From recollection both NR and nicotinamide worsened histamine levels significantly but nicotinic acid was fine.

The 2016 Trammell study identified NR as something else than NAM. It has it's own pathway into the system and does not repress one or more sirtuins.

[ambivalent]

Thanks for the link Mike.

 

BTW, are you taking NR sublingually, now? 

[MikeDC]

Thanks for the link Mike.

BTW, are you taking NR sublingually, now?

No.

[MikeDC]

The 2016 Trammell study identified NR as something else than NAM. It has it's own pathway into the system and does not repress one or more sirtuins.

Oral NR equal to NAM + NR on the cell level
Because a large portion of NR degrade into NAM in the absorption process

[Harkijn]

Oral NR equal to NAM + NR on the cell level
Because a large portion of NR degrade into NAM in the absorption process

This assertion has in the past led to fruitless divisive 'debate ' so I leave it at that. 

[ambivalent]

No.

 

So if you view oral NR as largely inefficient at raising NAD+ levels, may I ask what is your currently NAD strategy (and so observations) ? 

[MikeDC]

So if you view oral NR as largely inefficient at raising NAD+ levels, may I ask what is your currently NAD strategy (and so observations) ?

I meant I don’t use sublingual NR. Yes oral NR is effective at raising NAD+ and has good anti-aging benefits. My complaint is it could be better with increased bioavailability.

[ambivalent]

I meant I don’t use sublingual NR. Yes oral NR is effective at raising NAD+ and has good anti-aging benefits. My complaint is it could be better with increased bioavailability.

 

So do you not surmise NR to be more bioavailable when taken sublingually? I'm just a little surprised that you would persist taking NR orally given your assertion - or at least include sublingual NAD or NMN. Have you tried IV NAD? Pricey, but post covid, I might consider it (some people go on cruises.......:/). 

[MikeDC]

So do you not surmise NR to be more bioavailable when taken sublingually? I'm just a little surprised that you would persist taking NR orally given your assertion - or at least include sublingual NAD or NMN. Have you tried IV NAD? Pricey, but post covid, I might consider it (some people go on cruises.......:/).

Sublingual is too much trouble. It tastes really bad. I have not tried IV NAD+. I think it may provide better results than oral NR.

[joesixpack]

NR certainly raises histamines as I reported a few years back and allergic reactions have been commonly recorded. It has also raised uric acid and I believe Hba1c (from the d-ribose). Not everyone one was effected in this way, there are links posted to histamine-nicotinamide in the thread somewhere.

 

I take NR intermittently, just recently up to 2 grams but sublingually, In fact I struggle with sleep but when started it up again I had a really good night's sleep. Sure, it doesn't taste great but its a small price to not have the problems with oral administration and the benefits of NAD+, 

 

I suspect I may be wasting my NR this way and its probably better spaced out sublingually - Mike may have same supporting evidence - in the past I took up to 7 grams in a day - there was definitely considerable benefit at these doses, but then I ran in to problems (listed above). At some point I would try high doses sublingually spread through the day, but it requires obviously a bit of organisation for a month or so. 

 

One word of advice, I always use an antibacterial mouthwash as I have a couple of abscesses and I am certain that NMN (as well as c60) have triggered them in the past. 

 

But yes, take it sublingually and see if the sleep improves.

 

Wow, have you tried lowering your dose of NR to 300 mg? It seems to work for me. Sometimes to much of something good, is too much.

[joesixpack]

So do you not surmise NR to be more bioavailable when taken sublingually? I'm just a little surprised that you would persist taking NR orally given your assertion - or at least include sublingual NAD or NMN. Have you tried IV NAD? Pricey, but post covid, I might consider it (some people go on cruises.......:/). 

I think it is the best available at the moment. Chromadex may have a couple of other versions in the works that make it more bioavailable.

 

Check the Yahoo finance site for discussion on cdxc.