659 replies to this topic

[Reformed-Redan]

I don't think there are other labs willing to go through what the Polish university one has shown to this point. Everything they have done points in the direction of eventually completing the synthesis. I say we keep on going with them despite the delays. I think that's reasonable?

[Reformed-Redan]

From the previous post made by Nick,

 

We have searched for related references and routes from the API manufacturer, including similar ones. But they were not reported publicly.We have 3 Ph.D working on this project, and we will continue to work on it. If you have those references, please provide them for us. We have tried many times as you know. But the result was not good. 

 

I don't think it gets any better than having 3 Ph.D's working on such a project. 

 

Furthermore, once a synthesis route is established, we can then outsource the next group buy to a competent CN lab to just deal with mass production for eventually cheaper costs. 

 

Thoughts?

 

Edited by redan, 03 August 2016 - 01:05 AM.

[franbird]

It sounds like they have no clear idea of when it would be complete, meaning we could be waiting an indefinite amount of time

[jefferson]

I'm interested in two questions:

 

1. Can they give a rough estimate on their chances of successfully completing the project at this point if we give them something like 3-6 months? Low? Moderate chance?

 

2. Who else could we realistically get to do this that would be as qualified?

[Reformed-Redan]

It sounds like they have no clear idea of when it would be complete, meaning we could be waiting an indefinite amount of time

That's like Zeno's paradox stated another way.

 

It's in their best interest to complete the project. And making this compound albeit it's difficulty isn't impossible.

[Reformed-Redan]

Please also note that as far as I know, the Polish university have not asked for more money for doing this project. 

 

That should be a sign of good will and motivation to complete the project apart from monetary reasons.

 

Let's just wait a little bit more, I say...

[MoreNowAgain]

It's not like we're going to find someone as dedicated as the polish team; or so that's what it seems as they are working hard to assure quality.

 

I don't mind waiting as long as they need to complete the synthesis.

 

I absolutely  need this compound, my life depends on taking action with my severe treatment-resistant MDD and I'm sure there are others in the group who feel the same way.

 

I ask the other members here who participated in the group buy to please, please give it some time.

Edited by MoreNowAgain, 03 August 2016 - 02:53 AM.

[Nick Kyz]

 

We are trying all the solutions we can think of. Please give us 10 days more, so that we can finish the remaining solutions. It would be good if we can find one which works, as that would allow us to complete the route of synthesis. In case not, we will issue another report for you in 10 days. You can take a look and let us know your comments and feedback.

 

 

They got back to me, they'd like 10 days to try a few more solutions. I think we can give them that?

 

But like I said, all the funds are guaranteed by me and I have no interest in worrying about fiduciary duty for an indefinite amount of time. I would rather give the money back.

Edited by Nick Kyz, 03 August 2016 - 03:39 AM.

[tolerant]

I am all for giving them another 10 days. Their previous communication from the lab posted by Nick made it sound like they are stuck and don't know what to do or how long it could take. But as long as they keep churning out possible solutions, let them try.

 

P.S. On another note, as far as I remember, NRX-1074 is one of those substances that you can tell whether or not it will work fairly soon. (I need to update my research on that. Are there actually any published studies on its efficacy? Or do we just want it because it's supposed to work like Rapastinel and ketamine without the side effects?) If it does get synthesised but doesn't work for me, I will be happy to onsell what I've got remaining (which would be like 95% of the original amount) to anyone willing to buy.

 

P.P.S. The drug now has a name - Apimostinel.

Edited by tolerant, 03 August 2016 - 04:57 AM.

[somestranger26]

Keep it going please.

[HouseElisabeth]

Keep it going,for 10 days or more. Depression and anhedonia both destroyed 5 years of my life.Waiting for NRX's production for some extra days or even months is nothing compared to hating my life every single second 24/7.I trust them and i believe that they will succeed sooner or later.Let's give them all the time they need and more!

[Der Springende Punkt]

Yes, keep it going!

[samson75]

Let them all the time they need. 10 days is ridiculous, if they need a couple of months so it be. You'll probably not find another commited lab like this one.

If they can't make it, others probably won't.

I'm like other members above; i absolutly need something to ease my condition and i can't wait years that this new generation of AD come into the market.

[neuroatypicow]

i am in agreement with the plan to keep it going.

[nbourbaki]

Please keep it going.  Another 10 days is worth the wait.

[opusensemble]

Redan has said it all IMO.

And Samsom75 has used the right adjective to refer to the 10 days (ridiculous). Even 10 weeks is a reasonable waiting period considering we would try a drug 4 to 5 years ahead of market launch (if it ever hits the market). This thread has started more than 2 years ago, and no matter what our unrelenting suffering is, we cannot expect blindly that this will be the "miracle molecule". Maybe it will help some of us, maybe it won't. Reality can have many inconvenient truths. But I don't want to speculate about it. 

Most of the people on the group buy are in because they have ran out of options. You can leave but then where and when will you try this drug? This is the place for everyone to be in. Regardless of the personal outcome of the drug in each one particular case, reality is we have a team of chemists from academia committed in delivering.

Pioneers or guinea pigs, we're not exactly in a position to decline any possibility of hope. Deadlines are important when contracting any service, but reality is that even if a PhD team needed 6 months to 1 year to come out with a production viable synthesis route of a novel AD drug years ahead of the market, the vast majority of people with severe dark depression would wait patiently or impatiently. But they would wait. 

For all of you struggling with deadly abject depression, you all know this is not exactly a matter or money, or a matter waiting time. It's a matter of hope. And can even be seen as a matter of human advancement. We're mere prospective consumers. The client is always right but when we only have one trustworthy supplier, we have no alternative but to exercise common sense. 

Nick shouldn't feel obliged to any fiduciary duty to anyone on the group buy. His initiative and commitment is in potential, worth more than probably years of our psychiatrists and neurologists efforts combined. You can't put a price on hope. 

10 days is obviously a joke in terms of solving a synthesis route in a hard to synthesise compound. That short time can effect the final result It's holiday season also. And they will certainly not work indefinitely on it, as it doesn't pay their salaries. I would tell them to provide a progress report in 2 to 3 months. They would probably appreciate it and would benefit the overall endeavour.

Stay wise, humble and kind.

Edited by opusensemble, 03 August 2016 - 02:06 PM.

[nyckrazy]

10 days?! thats not possible. Id say 3 more months with some updates in between. Im in no rush.

[Cadmium]

Hi Guys,

 

I am new to the forum.

 

Could someone please explain to me why there is such excitement over NRX-1074.

 

I have tried searching the forum but all I can find is this discussion on a group purchase.

[xnova]

Greetings everyone,

Although I'm considered new to this forum, I've been a quiet member for a good 1/2 a year. I'm very interested in nootropics and the like and would love join this group buy. If there is an opportunity for me to go in please let me know so I can participate.

[One Last Soul]

I've been following this thread but recent reports suggest ketamine's AD effect is not NMDA-related :(

 

How about a groupbuy for hydroxynorketamine?

 

 

If you can find a legitimate source, I'll front the cost of the group buy (within reason of course).

 

Hi everyone

 

I've been reading this interesting thread but I have just joined to make this post. I don't want to sidetrack the discussion and I did consider starting a new thread but as everyone who is likely to be interested in the topic is in here, and the subject has already been brought up, I thought that I'd make a brief post here in case it helps anyone

 

Like most of you I suffer from chronic depression and like you all I am desperate for a cure. Luckily I had success with 3 ketamine treatments which was very hard to find in the UK so I have been following developments closely, especially in Hydroxynorketamine 

 

Anyway, I have been trying to source some and may have had some luck. I am based in the UK but the company Bio-Techne has branches in the UK, Europe and USA. If you go to their website they are offering 10mg for £119 and it shows in stock https://www.tocris.c...xynorketamine  

 

However when you try and complete on the purchase it tells you to contact them for a delivery date. So I thought 'here we go again' someone else advertising something that they don't have'  but I emailed them anyway and was pleasantly surprised to receive back

 

Dear Sir

 

Thank you for your email . cis-6-Hydroxynorketamine hydrochloride  Cat # 5982 approx delivery from receipt of order 7-10 days.

 

 

Please contact me if I can be of further assistance.

 

Best regards

Janet Morton

Customer Care Advisor UK & Eire

 

So it really may be this simple, no need for a group buy at this price and as it seems to be legal to buy you simply order it!

 

I will be ordering some myself soon but as there haven't been any human studies as yet (have there?) the interesting question of course is what would be the necessary dose to achieve the desired effect? Does anyone have any information or thoughts that may be of use?

 

Good luck to you all

[Der Springende Punkt]

 

I've been following this thread but recent reports suggest ketamine's AD effect is not NMDA-related :(

 

How about a groupbuy for hydroxynorketamine?

 

 

If you can find a legitimate source, I'll front the cost of the group buy (within reason of course).

 

Hi everyone

 

I've been reading this interesting thread but I have just joined to make this post. I don't want to sidetrack the discussion and I did consider starting a new thread but as everyone who is likely to be interested in the topic is in here, and the subject has already been brought up, I thought that I'd make a brief post here in case it helps anyone

 

Like most of you I suffer from chronic depression and like you all I am desperate for a cure. Luckily I had success with 3 ketamine treatments which was very hard to find in the UK so I have been following developments closely, especially in Hydroxynorketamine 

 

Anyway, I have been trying to source some and may have had some luck. I am based in the UK but the company Bio-Techne has branches in the UK, Europe and USA. If you go to their website they are offering 10mg for £119 and it shows in stock https://www.tocris.c...xynorketamine  

 

However when you try and complete on the purchase it tells you to contact them for a delivery date. So I thought 'here we go again' someone else advertising something that they don't have'  but I emailed them anyway and was pleasantly surprised to receive back

 

Dear Sir

 

Thank you for your email . cis-6-Hydroxynorketamine hydrochloride  Cat # 5982 approx delivery from receipt of order 7-10 days.

 

 

Please contact me if I can be of further assistance.

 

Best regards

Janet Morton

Customer Care Advisor UK & Eire

 

So it really may be this simple, no need for a group buy at this price and as it seems to be legal to buy you simply order it!

 

I will be ordering some myself soon but as there haven't been any human studies as yet (have there?) the interesting question of course is what would be the necessary dose to achieve the desired effect? Does anyone have any information or thoughts that may be of use?

 

Good luck to you all

 

 

It would be new to me if it is that easy to order as a private person. Generally those companies do not ship to individuals but only to other companies.
 

[One Last Soul]

 

 

I've been following this thread but recent reports suggest ketamine's AD effect is not NMDA-related :(

 

How about a groupbuy for hydroxynorketamine?

 

 

If you can find a legitimate source, I'll front the cost of the group buy (within reason of course).

 

Hi everyone

 

I've been reading this interesting thread but I have just joined to make this post. I don't want to sidetrack the discussion and I did consider starting a new thread but as everyone who is likely to be interested in the topic is in here, and the subject has already been brought up, I thought that I'd make a brief post here in case it helps anyone

 

Like most of you I suffer from chronic depression and like you all I am desperate for a cure. Luckily I had success with 3 ketamine treatments which was very hard to find in the UK so I have been following developments closely, especially in Hydroxynorketamine 

 

Anyway, I have been trying to source some and may have had some luck. I am based in the UK but the company Bio-Techne has branches in the UK, Europe and USA. If you go to their website they are offering 10mg for £119 and it shows in stock https://www.tocris.c...xynorketamine  

 

However when you try and complete on the purchase it tells you to contact them for a delivery date. So I thought 'here we go again' someone else advertising something that they don't have'  but I emailed them anyway and was pleasantly surprised to receive back

 

Dear Sir

 

Thank you for your email . cis-6-Hydroxynorketamine hydrochloride  Cat # 5982 approx delivery from receipt of order 7-10 days.

 

 

Please contact me if I can be of further assistance.

 

Best regards

Janet Morton

Customer Care Advisor UK & Eire

 

So it really may be this simple, no need for a group buy at this price and as it seems to be legal to buy you simply order it!

 

I will be ordering some myself soon but as there haven't been any human studies as yet (have there?) the interesting question of course is what would be the necessary dose to achieve the desired effect? Does anyone have any information or thoughts that may be of use?

 

Good luck to you all

 

 

It would be new to me if it is that easy to order as a private person. Generally those companies do not ship to individuals but only to other companies.
 

 

I could order it through my company but I suspect that in this instance they will sell direct judging by the small quantities they are offering, I have ordered similar drugs before with no issues

[signsandwonders]

I could order it through my company but I suspect that in this instance they will sell direct judging by the small quantities they are offering, I have ordered similar drugs before with no issues

 

 

Please keep me updated on this. If this is legit I'm extremely interested.

 

Could you give me information about the ketamine infusions in the UK?

 

And we need to find out the dosage of HNK.

Edited by signsandwonders, 16 August 2016 - 01:24 PM.

[One Last Soul]

Apparently I can only make 1 more post today as a new guy 

 

According to this article 

 

https://www.scienced...60504141131.htm

 

The type of  hydroxynorketamine that has been shown to work is (2R,6R)-HNK

 

Can someone who is more knowledgeable than me please confirm that this is what is being offered before we get too excited https://www.tocris.c...p?ItemId=500895

 

Thanks, I'll reply tomorrow when I'm allowed to post again...

Edited by One Last Soul, 16 August 2016 - 01:36 PM.

[Forty Six & 2]

Yes, that is the 2R,6R form, written in the alternative nomenclature as cis-isomer form

 

Notably the racemate itself should have viable effect, but would require a higher dose, as well as have moderately diminished selectivity of effect, though such that is unlikely significant

 

Dosage is unknown as the only in vivo [mice] study used a dose that appeared equipotently equivalent in effect to ketamine within dosages equivalent to those administered of ketamine (ketamine isomers) itself; however, there is also speculation that it may a good deal more potent based on other data [in vitro].  Notably, in vivo data would seem to be the more likely indicative of actual dosage for efficacy, which was shown in this study for both agents to be 10mg/kg (i.v., as best to my recall).  Unfortunately the best data point used only the 10mg/kg dose for both KET and HNK, though other data points used 3mg/kg for HNK and was not significantly effective, where 10mg/kg was, though this was still demonstrated in this antidepressant model [FST] to be less efficacious than KET.

Reference for in vivo data: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/27144355

 

The synthesis is extraordinarily difficult with extremely poor yield, btw.

 

 

[samson75]

Hi One Last Soul, thanks for the info. Could you please tell us where you got your ketamine infusions and other details (number of infusions, price...) ?

I know a clinic in Germany that provides this treatment (https://psychiatrie....en_mit_ketamin/) , i'm going to contact them in order to know if they accept french customers.

But i would also like to know about the institution you were in.

You tell that you had positive outcome; can you provide further details (how many infusions, how long the effect lasts...) ?

Moreover, if this was positive, why did you stop and are here to search for other options ?

Thanks.

 

Edited by samson75, 16 August 2016 - 08:34 PM.

[tolerant]

Please be careful. Just because it's available to be bought doesn't mean it's legal to import from another customs zone. In Australia, for example, there's a list of drugs which are illegal to import, of which ketamine is one, and there are additional regulations that cover precursors and similar drugs, with isomers being specifically mentioned. So you have to check the legislation of your country.

[opusensemble]

Speaking about ketamine for TRD, stumbled upon some pages that compared its effects to MXE (methoxetamine) 
Check also page 140 on the following book https://drive.google...np0NmFGYWs/view 

The only problem seems to be where to get it access to reliable sources. 
Cross-checking the first google hits with https://www.reddit.c...es/wiki/vendors results in scam warnings mostly. 

Does anyone have a suggestion on where to get hold of 1g of MXE in Europe? (PM-me please if you do)

Edited by opusensemble, 24 August 2016 - 06:42 PM.

[deetown]

My experience with MXE was it made me feel great as well as rather drunk but left me depressed.  Just an FYI.  Taken it about 4 times.  

[shpen]

Any updates on the synthesis?