659 replies to this topic

[opusensemble]

 

I had posted a few pages back that I would order some bulk Radix Polygalae extract based on the posting below.

It has arrived and if anyone wants some, just message me.

I'm not trying to redirect any NRX topics, but this was a short discussion within this thread previously and I'm just following up.

They are 100g bulk sealed aluminized bags. Non-irradiated and from one of my steady, reliable and trustworthy Chinese sources.

I included this one in my last bulk order which just arrived and this was based on "opusensemble's" posting.

How's $20 including shipping within the US (for Longecity people only)?

Now back to our regular programming......

 

I have recently placed a post, while looking for an alleged "Ketamine cousin" from nature from a 2013 research from South Korea: 

http://www.longecity...on/#entry765325

 

I can't really express the end of line despair I've been dealing through my malignant, pernicious and dark depression. The suffering and fatigue is so intense, for years, that I can only compare it with terminal oncological illness, while I keep looking for physical root causes. In my particular case, NRX may be just one more futile attempt to address a problem with a different origin and different etiology.

Yet, in the above link, started by mistake on the wrong section of Longecity, which probably didn't gave it much attention from users, I believe something interesting and valid in the context of depression, was referred. 

I originally posted about Radix Polygalae, and throughout the thread realized that it lacks the mTOR activation that Ketamine elicits. One could eventually complement it with a few herbal mTOR activators or sarcosine. Yet, mTOR activation is known for being pro-carcinogenic, so the best way to take Polygala will probably be as part of a formula with other herbal constituents that in some way modulate mTOR in a safe way.

 

Nevertheless, maybe the most inspiring thing I stumbled across and placed in that thread is this: 
 

Yueju Pill Rapidly Induces Antidepressant-Like Effects and Acutely Enhances BDNF Expression in Mouse Brain

In conclusion, we identified an ancient classic antidepressant herb medicine Yueju to act rapidly and lastingly in mice. To our knowledge, up to now, this is the only herb medicine demonstrating ketamine-like antidepressant effect. Moreover, Yueju quickly induces the expression of BDNF in the hippocampus, which may mediate the antidepressant effect in a fast manner. Yueju was invented eight hundred years ago and is still popularly prescribed in China, suggesting that Yueju is an effective and safe medicine in remedy of mood disorders including depression. Our findings lend a support for the efficacy of Yueju on quickly relieving depression symptoms and laid a foundation for further clarifying the underlying substrates. The present study also sheds a new light on the translational and clinic research on the quick and lasting antidepressant efficacy of Yueju.
http://www.hindawi.c...am/2013/184367/

 

The herb responsible for that effect in that 800 year old Chinese formula was determined to be the fruits of Gardenia Jasminoides. Maybe nature has something to say, I can only speculate, and considering the combinations of herbs and variants of TCM formulas are virtually unlimited, it may prove utopic to find real help in that realm. Yet, totally ignoring it may not be wise too. Maybe this gives some of the depression sufferers something to play with while they wait for NRX. I tried to compile that information there with my very limited strengths, bedridden. If I don't survive, maybe it helps someone else.

Edited by opusensemble, 05 May 2016 - 09:50 PM.

[MoreNowAgain]

 

 

I had posted a few pages back that I would order some bulk Radix Polygalae extract based on the posting below.

It has arrived and if anyone wants some, just message me.

I'm not trying to redirect any NRX topics, but this was a short discussion within this thread previously and I'm just following up.

They are 100g bulk sealed aluminized bags. Non-irradiated and from one of my steady, reliable and trustworthy Chinese sources.

I included this one in my last bulk order which just arrived and this was based on "opusensemble's" posting.

How's $20 including shipping within the US (for Longecity people only)?

Now back to our regular programming......

 

I have recently placed a post, while looking for an alleged "Ketamine cousin" from nature from a 2013 research from South Korea: 

http://www.longecity...on/#entry765325

 

I can't really express the end of line despair I've been dealing through my malignant, pernicious and dark depression. The suffering and fatigue is so intense, for years, that I can only compare it with terminal oncological illness, while I keep looking for physical root causes. In my particular case, NRX may be just one more futile attempt to address a problem with a different origin and different etiology.

Yet, in the above link, started by mistake on the wrong section of Longecity, which probably didn't gave it much attention from users, I believe something interesting and valid in the context of depression, was referred. 

I originally posted about Radix Polygalae, and throughout the thread realized that it lacks the mTOR activation that Ketamine elicits. One could eventually complement it with a few herbal mTOR activators or sarcosine. Yet, mTOR activation is known for being pro-carcinogenic, so the best way to take Polygala will probably be as part of a formula with other herbal constituents that in some way modulate mTOR in a safe way.

 

Nevertheless, maybe the most inspiring thing I stumbled across and placed in that thread is this: 
 

Yueju Pill Rapidly Induces Antidepressant-Like Effects and Acutely Enhances BDNF Expression in Mouse Brain

In conclusion, we identified an ancient classic antidepressant herb medicine Yueju to act rapidly and lastingly in mice. To our knowledge, up to now, this is the only herb medicine demonstrating ketamine-like antidepressant effect. Moreover, Yueju quickly induces the expression of BDNF in the hippocampus, which may mediate the antidepressant effect in a fast manner. Yueju was invented eight hundred years ago and is still popularly prescribed in China, suggesting that Yueju is an effective and safe medicine in remedy of mood disorders including depression. Our findings lend a support for the efficacy of Yueju on quickly relieving depression symptoms and laid a foundation for further clarifying the underlying substrates. The present study also sheds a new light on the translational and clinic research on the quick and lasting antidepressant efficacy of Yueju.
http://www.hindawi.c...am/2013/184367/

 

The herb responsible for that effect in that 800 year old Chinese formula was determined to be the fruits of Gardenia Jasminoides. Maybe nature has something to say, I can only speculate, and considering the combinations of herbs and variants of TCM formulas are virtually unlimited, it may prove utopic to find real help in that realm. Yet, totally ignoring it may not be wise too. Maybe this gives some of the depression sufferers something to play with while they wait for NRX. I tried to compile that information there with my very limited strengths, bedridden. If I don't survive, maybe it helps someone else.

 

Did you ever get a chance to try Yue Ju Wan?

 

It never worked to the extent I would have liked it to. Ketamine was still such a better antidepressant overall. Although it did help a bit, just not to the level of ketamine.

[Irishdude]

https://www.scienced...60504141131.htm

 

What implications does this have for NRX?

[opusensemble]

Did you ever get a chance to try Yue Ju Wan?

It never worked to the extent I would have liked it to. Ketamine was still such a better antidepressant overall. Although it did help a bit, just not to the level of ketamine.

Haven't tried any. Either Polygala, or Yue Ju Wan (or its GJ). Dosages studied and tested seem to vary astronomically in Polygala (0.1mg/kg vs 280mg/kg) and GJ daily dosages (as constituent for Yue Ju formula) are on the 4g-6g daily range for statistical relevance, From extract types, to sources, to concentrations, to dosages, to accompanying herbs, to illness severity and side effects it's a maze with too much critical variables to make a fair unbiased assessment. Just thought was worth mentioning them in the context of the collective objectives, 

Edited by opusensemble, 05 May 2016 - 11:00 PM.

[Ark]

How's the group buy coming?

[Reformed-Redan]

How's the group buy coming?

Nick is finishing the final touches. As far as I know the synthesis has begun already!

[samson75]

https://www.scienced...60504141131.htm

 

What implications does this have for NRX?

 

This is fantastic news ! I'm now convinced i won't suffer depression all my life !

At last new improved ways of treatment, before 5 years i won't have to rely on those

awful serotonine reuptake inhibitors to survive.

Three hopes : - johnson & johnson's esketamine

                       - allergan's nrx-1074

                       - future medications based on that great NIH's discover.

 

 

[Irishdude]

 

https://www.scienced...60504141131.htm

 

What implications does this have for NRX?

 

This is fantastic news ! I'm now convinced i won't suffer depression all my life !

At last new improved ways of treatment, before 5 years i won't have to rely on those

awful serotonine reuptake inhibitors to survive.

Three hopes : - johnson & johnson's esketamine

                       - allergan's nrx-1074

                       - future medications based on that great NIH's discover.

 

Wasnt NRX based off copying kets MOA re NMDA and now we're finding out ket has a different anti depressant action completely re AMPA agonism? Doesnt this make NRX bunk?

[Reformed-Redan]

 

 

https://www.scienced...60504141131.htm

 

What implications does this have for NRX?

 

This is fantastic news ! I'm now convinced i won't suffer depression all my life !

At last new improved ways of treatment, before 5 years i won't have to rely on those

awful serotonine reuptake inhibitors to survive.

Three hopes : - johnson & johnson's esketamine

                       - allergan's nrx-1074

                       - future medications based on that great NIH's discover.

 

Wasnt NRX based off copying kets MOA re NMDA and now we're finding out ket has a different anti depressant action completely re AMPA agonism? Doesnt this make NRX bunk?

 

It get's really complicated, and researchers are still scrambling to figure out how and why Ketamine works so well. To really simplify things, Ketamine resets the brain through various mechanisms. For example Hydroxynorketamine, which has been found to work via alpha-7-nicotinic negative modulation (antagonist) and as an AMPA receptor agonist or possibly a positive allosteric modulator, has been found to be devoid of NMDA antagonism associated with ketamine, thus possibly contradicting the thought that NMDA antagonism is necessary for the effects of Ketamine to be effective as an antidepressant. I suspect HNK works also at the glycine site of NMDA channel receptors; but, further research will elucidate that. 

 

Anyway, the point is that NMDA dysfunction has been implicated in a wide variety of neurological processes and disorders. Just to name a few, you have schizophrenia and depression. In my opinion, what NRX-1074 does is to normalize aberrant activity at the NMDA receptor through its positive allosteric modulation of glycine receptors on NMDA channels. Why this interests me is because it has potential nootropic potential, as mentioned many times in this thread, along with treating aberrant activity at NMDA channels. Furthermore, it is effective for ~a week. So, it has a wide variety of utility to many people who suffer from depression and possibly negative symptoms of schizophrenia along with being a potent nootropic.

 

I hope I partially answered your question.  

Edited by redan, 06 May 2016 - 11:10 PM.

[opusensemble]

 

 

https://www.scienced...60504141131.htm

 

What implications does this have for NRX?

 

This is fantastic news ! I'm now convinced i won't suffer depression all my life !

At last new improved ways of treatment, before 5 years i won't have to rely on those

awful serotonine reuptake inhibitors to survive.

Three hopes : - johnson & johnson's esketamine

                       - allergan's nrx-1074

                       - future medications based on that great NIH's discover.

 

Wasnt NRX based off copying kets MOA re NMDA and now we're finding out ket has a different anti depressant action completely re AMPA agonism? Doesnt this make NRX bunk?

 

They knew all along that Blockade of AMPA receptors (AMPAR) blunts ketamine’s antidepressant effects in mice and rats, whereas enhanced AMPAR signaling facilitates the effects. My guess is that any rapid antidepressant has to be eliciting its effects via AMPA receptor-mediated neuroplasticity, so most likely NRX and GLYX at least some extent, will be influencing these pathways. (Subject to confirmation) . The trend in the literature seems to be that neuroplasticity is heavily involved in rapid antidepressant effects, and AMPA activation shows again and again as part of that role.
I'd say that this is yet more PhD masturbation. All these substances that elicit rapid antidepressant effect tend to do it through mTOR activation (related to it's effects in making synapses sprouting), and mTOR activation is know to be pro-carcinogenic. So at least while they don't rule out strong angiogenic effects of these drugs and/or metabolites, most of the advances they publish can be dangerous academia research articles if not seen in perspective. 
If the vast majority of psych drugs is carcinogenic and has slow therapeutic effects, will it be reasonable to expect a rapid action from Ketamine/NRX/GLYX like drugs at no oncological risk? They're not making that research, so all must be taken with a grain of salt. 
Carcinogenicity of psychotropic drugs: A systematic review of US Food and Drug Administration–required preclinical in vivo studies
http://anp.sagepub.c...82231.abstract 

Attached Files

•  Aust N Z J Psychiatry-2015-Amerio-0004867415582231.pdf   742.25KB   4 downloads

Edited by opusensemble, 06 May 2016 - 11:29 PM.

[franbird]

How is progress?

[samson75]

Yes, no news for quite a time...

[Nick Kyz]

Hi fellas, production is underway. We should expect completion sometime in July. Analysis will take an additional week. I've arranged it so we only pay 50% upfront. The balance will be paid at our discretion once the product is confirmed pure. We agreed to 98% purity, pharmaceutical grade.

[Reformed-Redan]

Hi fellas, production is underway. We should expect completion sometime in July. Analysis will take an additional week. I've arranged it so we only pay 50% upfront. The balance will be paid at our discretion once the product is confirmed pure. We agreed to 98% purity, pharmaceutical grade.

 

Huray!

 

NRX-1074, here we come.

[samson75]

Next step : get through customs ! Do you think this product won't get in trouble reaching buyers ?

[Nick Kyz]

I don't anticipate customs will be a major problem.

[opusensemble]

I don't anticipate customs will be a major problem.

Today was contacted by Fedex who told me that they would instruct Portuguese customs to destroy my order made in Alibaba of two common herbal extracts, because of too much customs bureaucracy (they were requesting authorizations, licenses, etc, making it impossible for an individual buyer to acquire such extracts). 
I'm not sure if all EU customs act like Portugal's but this should be a warning sign. To avoid all this all NRX-1074 should be sent in flimsy plastic baggies sent in between a folded postal-like thick sheet of paper, as in the attached image, sent as standard mail correspondence. Otherwise chances are EU countries will simply get their filthy hands on the product and destroy it on the blink of an eye.

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•  fedex_customs_goods.png   744.5KB   3 downloads
•  2016-05-13 14_34_45_screenshot.png   378.13KB   3 downloads

[Nick Kyz]

What was your package declared as?

[opusensemble]

It was declared as herbal extracts I believe, (1.5Kg weight). Initially passed France customs, went to Germany. Germany customs X-rayed it, sent it back to France customs for lab analysis, 1 month later is cleared, arrived to Portugal, Portuguese customs raise red flags and Fedex calls me to just forget about it, and my attempts to know what documentation was being demanded are frustrated by Fedex, which kept telling me I'd never get customs clearance and the product will be destroyed. Trying to contact the regulatory body here (National Organization for Agriculture and Fishery: Not a joke) but not expecting any professionalism from them. In the past tried to import a known vitamin supplement from the US, which included chelated forms of Minerals, and the official explanation this regulatory agency gave me by phone to justify the prohibition of chelates was: "Americans eat anything". I'll probably try to use www.skypax.com next time on the Chinese imports. Maybe UK customs don't apply censorship. 
 

Another recent example of EU customs censorhip, this order of a simple aminoacid from outside the EU will also be trashed by the customs here, with the simple explanation that "it has no EU certifications" (fancy way of saying: "Aussies will eat anything"):

http://www.ebay.co.u...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

In the NRX case, in the EU zone, if the small 500mg/250mg are not sent in a discreet envelopes as normal correspondence, and are declared as research chemicals, anything can happen inside the EU depending on the specific country's customs' inspection. There is free circulation of goods inside the EU zone, but country of destination National customs inspection is always involved anytime suspicious goods are declared or detected by normal mail processing. 

 

You don't want to declare NRX-1074 as research chemical and make it go through European countries to the end users. At least mine, I'm sure it will be promptly destroyed without any information given to the recipient. Only way to exchange these substances in low quantities is to mail them in envelopes as normal correspondence. Only way to avoid censorship here.

Edited by opusensemble, 13 May 2016 - 04:00 PM.

[Nick Kyz]

I'm sorry to hear that. Anything over 1kg will attract unwanted customs attention. We generally break packages up if they're overweight for that reason. Herbal extracts also attract customs attention. Using a forwarder like Skypax is a good idea. I've heard Shipito is good too. Many of our clients at IRC use shipping forwarders. 

 

We never declare anything as a research chemical. We use the appropriate harmonization code for dietary supplements, or if requested otherwise we'll use a different code e.g. cleaning supplies. We always request bounce back if there's a customs issue. And we insure all packages >$100.

Edited by Nick Kyz, 13 May 2016 - 04:26 PM.

[opusensemble]

It's a good strategy Nick. Sounds like you're on top of that game. Thanks for clarifying. 

[samson75]

I hope french custom won't be like portuguese ones ! This medication is one of my last hopes to get rid from depression...

[Bukujutsu]

What if the Portuguese customs wanted you to bribe them?

[opusensemble]

Unfortunately, in this digital age, database monitoring rules make it possible for any lawbreaker to be found later on. So bribery is increasingly less possible. The combination of restrictions on different areas of civilian experience, create a corridor that people must follow. Anyone who defies it is considered an outcast and a perpetrator and promptly threatened. 

The only way to deal with it is to play their game. If they're implicitly asking to be lied to, then they shall be lied to. I could give you many examples here, but digital footprints are a bitch.

Let's just say that Silkroad was serving a true and honorable higher purpose, and their sellers were perfectly able to use the existing airmail and standard mail delivery services by keeping a discreet low profile.

If you have a few hours reading time: 
https://www.wired.co...04/silk-road-1/
http://www.wired.com...05/silk-road-2/

We should never underestimate the obstacles. 

Anyway, just found a new kind on the block in Alibaba today: 
https://www.alibaba....57.29.21.VbczcC
https://www.alibaba....57.29.10.VbczcC

They seem to be doing a bad job by mixing the NRX1074 concept with an Androgen Modulator, but nothing like contacting them to see if they have notion of what they're claiming to sell. 

Another side note, on purity. Independent lab tests should be paramount. Things like these are fatal: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPTP
https://mmcneuro.wor...d-parkinsonism/

 

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•  neuropharmacology-catecholamines-8-728.jpg   110.87KB   4 downloads

Edited by opusensemble, 14 May 2016 - 08:22 PM.

[franbird]

Copied from their ad on alibaba.com

 

Thanks for your inquiry.

This is qwerty from Wuhan Senwayer,following are our price details for NRX-1074 for yourreference:

Re:NRX-1074
Price:10g:USD372.00 total FOB

        5g:USD248.00 total FOB.
Packing:Foli bag.
Lead time:About 2 month.
Payment term:T/T in advance

Edited by franbird, 16 May 2016 - 11:55 AM.

[Adr1n]

For this kind of compound that price seems a bit off, not even sure if it's worth for lab analisys testing.

Edited by Adr1n, 16 May 2016 - 02:19 PM.

[opusensemble]

One should ask them if they provide lab analysis reports. (Although they can fake them, should at least make any scam attempt harder)
Their alibaba page uses photoshopped images of their factory (attached)
http://www.maoyt.com...93749_39946.jpg
http://www.licenseplate.cn/

etc.. (many google images' of fake occurrences)

If it walks like a rat and smells like a rat and looks like a rat: it's probably a rat. 
This shouldn't mean much if they're reputable but should make us remember that unless we use third party certification, we're likely not to get what we're expecting. Something hazardous or just expensive white flour. 

Makes me remember conmen in Africa selling the most expensive glass any greedy Westerner would ever buy, thinking he was getting a diamond. 

 

Attached Files

•  2016-05-16 13_33_47_screenshot.png   523.25KB   3 downloads

Edited by opusensemble, 16 May 2016 - 04:30 PM.

[samson75]

But if it's the real product it's far cheaper than what i paid => 200$ for 250mg vs 372$ for 10g !!

Maybe we could organize a collective buy of 5g and further make an analysis.

But anyway, anything pharmatical coming from China or India is highly suspicious for french customs...

I would never receive my purchase.

[opusensemble]

But if it's the real product it's far cheaper than what i paid => 200$ for 250mg vs 372$ for 10g !!

Maybe we could organize a collective buy of 5g and further make an analysis.

But anyway, anything pharmatical coming from China or India is highly suspicious for french customs...

I would never receive my purchase.

True. EU countries' customs will simply seize it and destroy it. 
Only way to play the game is to give the Chinese more $50 for e.g. splitting 5 grams by 5 envelopes inside foldable postcards, and sent it in regular mail post letters, or in cushioned envelopes including a small item together with the small baggie and a description like "USB adapter", sent by slow regular mail. Overall, if NRX-1074 worked at all as we expected, finding ways to get it through the EU customs would be the easiest thing to do. Never underestimate the power of a ground mail divide-n-conquer guerrilla attack. 

The main goal of this group buy should be to perform a proof-of-concept in real-life health applications. 
One way or the other we're being self-appointed guinea pigs, so our main concern should be quality and not quantity, hence, Nick and Redan's supplier choice was probably the logic and wisest thing to do for now. 

Edited by opusensemble, 16 May 2016 - 07:20 PM.

[jefferson]

The main goal of this group buy should be to perform a proof-of-concept in real-life health applications. 
One way or the other we're being self-appointed guinea pigs, so our main concern should be quality and not quantity, hence, Nick and Redan's supplier choice was probably the logic and wisest thing to do for now. 

 

 

Quantity matters. The very limited quantity we'll be receiving means there's only enough for one oral dose, if that. There was talk about injecting it or devising some intranasal spray. This still seems the major problem after sourcing it.