221 replies to this topic

[Flex]

I respect it too and can understand the interrest of controlling their patent.

But if its not sold by them currently, who is damaged ?

 

Do they suffer a loss right now or anything else?

 

No! their Product is currently made even more popular by different Vendors, Sellers and of course Consumers.

This in turn gains even more popularity to their product so that in the near future,

in the case of a approvement by the FDA, a greater run is to be expected for the NSI-189

than they could make it on their own with Public Relations or other weak advertisements.

 

Their prohibition has the same unflexibel and greedy atitude of the most companys nowadays.

 

Edited by Flex, 12 June 2014 - 12:26 PM.

[foreseason]

They are in the process of creating what they hope will become a revolutionary new medical treatment which will have massive multi-million dollar marketing campaigns and be pushed by doctors all over the world. What takes place here and on nootropic vendor sites will have zero positive effect on their level of success. To say we'd be somehow helping them is a bit foolish.

Conversely, having random people synthesizing and selling their patented product with zero regulation could certainly have a negative effect on their reputation.

Sucks for us, but what they're doing makes perfect sense to me.

[formergenius]

It's disappointing to see a company seemingly dedicated to progress now suddenly become adament about inhibiting it.
You make good points there Flex. Also, at what point does a substance become strucurally dissimilar enough to not elicit unwaranted patent pursuits?
Or is it merely the naming of the product that is being pursued? And if so, could it not simply be sold nameless under a CAS number without such ensuing threats?
Surely they are not sending out cease and desist letters to larger research chemical suppliers? What if Sigma started carrying it?  How about all the Chinese vendors on Alibaba? Where do they draw the line, and why?

 

Anyhow; best wishes to Ceretropic.

[Ceretropic]

Thanks for the support!

 

We harbor no ill-will towards Neuralstem, or their lawyers. They spent something like a billion dollars to develop this drug and get it through trials. Without their efforts, we would not have this great compound. So I applaud their work, and hope they continue to develop new substances going forward.

 

This is business, and they need to ensure that their new drug does not get bad press because some people were misusing it off label. That, and our patent system is fucked. If they were to knowingly allow us, or anyone else, to sell NSI-189, they would have issues asserting their control of the patent at later dates. It's unfortunate, but it is what we have to deal with at the moment.

 

Perhaps they were a bit forceful in their methods, but c'est la vie. We knew the risks going in, and accept that some things will not work out. We have a lot of ideas for new compounds, and even have some with similar binding characteristics that we may explore at later dates. There is no sense getting into a fight that even if we did win, would cause more harm than good for our small business. NSI-189 is a good substance, but we have a lot more cool things ahead. So no sense risking all of that for one molecule. We may even be getting close to finding the structure for PRL-8-147! So we have a lot to look forward to.

 

And where there is a market, a supply will form. I am sure there are other entities out there willing to risk the sale of NSI-189, so it will probably be available for everyone from somewhere. Just look at modafinil.

 

-Ceretropic

[Joe chiavarini]

I would think that some labs will still manufacture nsi-189. In fact I just contacted one. Now that the company Nurealstem is monitoring this site I will not divulge the name of the company here. I would rather purchase a gram for 100 bucks though than buy 100 for 2 grand.

[Morfeo]

Iam interested, please PM me with supplier information.

[chemicalambrosia]

That, and our patent system is fucked. If they were to knowingly allow us, or anyone else, to sell NSI-189, they would have issues asserting their control of the patent at later dates. It's unfortunate, but it is what we have to deal with at the moment.

 

Yes, this is the case exactly. They have a legal obligation to pursue anyone that is infringing on their patent, if they want to protect the eligibility of their patent. They also have an obligation to shareholders, and if they don't protect their patents then a lot of capital has been spent that could end up not benefiting shareholders at all. Shareholders of a company expect nothing less than this kind of response.

 

I hope you didn't invest too much into this project, but at least you've got a number of other innovative products. Anyone who hasn't done so yet should check out their website. I'm looking forward to reports of the rhodiola extract product and might give it a try myself.

[formergenius]

Iam interested, please PM me with supplier information.

 

1 post; it's Neuralstem! jk.

 

 

That, and our patent system is fucked. If they were to knowingly allow us, or anyone else, to sell NSI-189, they would have issues asserting their control of the patent at later dates. It's unfortunate, but it is what we have to deal with at the moment.

 

Yes, this is the case exactly. They have a legal obligation to pursue anyone that is infringing on their patent, if they want to protect the eligibility of their patent. They also have an obligation to shareholders, and if they don't protect their patents then a lot of capital has been spent that could end up not benefiting shareholders at all. Shareholders of a company expect nothing less than this kind of response.

 

I hope you didn't invest too much into this project, but at least you've got a number of other innovative products. Anyone who hasn't done so yet should check out their website. I'm looking forward to reports of the rhodiola extract product and might give it a try myself.

 

 

I was unaware of these things when posting my comment. Although my questions still stand; where does one draw the line? There are several "big" suppliers of NSI-189; do they (have to) pursue these companies too? Unless there's some clear reason for that, then they appear to be basically just cherry-picking who they go after..

Edited by formergenius, 13 June 2014 - 02:23 AM.

[themadscientist]

I strongly believe Neural Stem won't go after every lab producing it. We are basically a free clinical trial for them. I mean just look at their website, they added longevity as a possibility for the drug based on what we discussed on this forum. Clinical trials costs millions of dollars and not to mention the risk factor which it involves. Someone mentioned that this will make them look bad, that is far from the truth. Trust me no one is going to blame Neural Stem for OUR actions, people would blame this forum or the internet as a whole before the press acted against Neural Stem directly.

[Ceretropic]

Sometimes a minor loss is inevitable. But we are never too invested in any one thing, until we know that direction is a successful one. So it is not like we spent tens of thousands on a supply of this, and now cannot do anything with it. A few grand loss here and there is to be expected. We are having a lot bigger issues with customs at the moment. They have stopped over $30,000 of our stuff in the past few weeks. Our government is our biggest hurdle at the moment. Plus, I get to look at the bright side. We have a large personal stash of NSI-189 that we can use personally! Haha

 

As to where they draw the line, I cannot say. I doubt they are going to go after Chinese suppliers. Even then, I have informed them of the situation, so they can be prepared if it does happen. But like I said, supply always finds a way when there is demand. If they go after one lab in China, I am sure multiple others will pop up in their place. I think Neuralstem is more going to go after US-based vendors, rather than attack it from the supply side. But who knows. They do have a lot of money to work with, and they may have more pull than we anticipate. But I do think they will go after any and all US-based vendors. They are not going to pick and choose who to go after. The laws makes it so that they really do not have a choice.

 

In any event, I hope it gets approval soon, and those that are really needing it can get it. That's the biggest downside to this situation. There are people that can benefit from this compound now, and may not have the time to wait years for it to be approved. Hopefully they can get it sooner, rather than later.

[formergenius]

Glad to hear your losses are marginal.

 

So, I gather that any EU based vendors would be exempt of their obligation to protect their US patent status, thereby not being subject to the same fate?

Smells like loophole.

Edited by formergenius, 13 June 2014 - 06:48 PM.

[telight]

In any event, I hope it gets approval soon, and those that are really needing it can get it. That's the biggest downside to this situation. There are people that can benefit from this compound now, and may not have the time to wait years for it to be approved. Hopefully they can get it sooner, rather than later.

 

This was exactly the point I was going to make, but decided to read all the new comments. Good thing I did. +1.

 

How is the SEMAX coming? It seems it has been an eternity since I preordered it.

Edited by telight, 13 June 2014 - 09:03 PM.

[Ceretropic]

Ohh man, SEMAX... The things we have had to deal with to get these damn peptides through customs! We had to modify our shipping methods for the peptides, since apparently the FDA had flagged them. We have new names, addresses, labels, and data sheets in the packages. So hopefully we have satisfied all their requirements at this point, and they let the package through. The 120mg vials are coming first. Then once we confirm the new shipping methods work, the rest will follow. The first package has been in transit since Tuesday. Cross your fingers.

 

Customs and the FDA are really causing issues at the moment. Not sure if someone alerted them to us or what, but we literally had every single package to us stopped at the same time. It has been stressful to say the least.

[Flex]

Hmm could maybe the reason be for this a preparation of a Trade and Investment Partnership with the EU ?

 

I guess You are forced to open a secrect subsidiary company in the EU, in the case they will keep on with NSI or the US customs would get too harsh

At least, It would be good for me, because of this German customs fortress..

 

@ Formergenius: Congrats for the Netherland victory.

I dont like the Spains, because they didnt played fair in the past like Italy.

Edited by Flex, 13 June 2014 - 09:39 PM.

[formergenius]

Hmm could maybe the reason be for this a preparation of a Trade and Investment Partnership with the EU ?

 

What do you mean?

 

I guess You are forced to open a secrect subsidiary company in the EU, in the case they will keep on with NSI or the US customs would get too harsh

At least, It would be good for me, because of this German customs fortress..

Would it have to be secret? Hmm, the Netherlands have never stopped even the most questionable packages I've ordered. Seriously; they'll slip anything through here, even if they claim they're "tightening customs because of Polish firework imports". Not in a position to act as such a subsidiary myself currently and unfortunately, else I would. But food for thought nonetheless for those who are prospective to such methods.

 

@ Formergenius: Congrats for the Netherland victory.

I dont like the Spains, because they didnt played fair in the past like Italy.

I was complaining throughout the match how trivial professional sports are, but thanks! Was hoping they'd lose so I could get a half-decent night's sleep again.

[Flex]

- I heard that the USA and the EU want to do a Trade and Investment Partnership.

Therefore they fit their standards to each other.

I´m of course aware that this chapter is since Snowden on ice.. But not abadoned.

And also that some new laws could be blamed for this. But frankly, I couldnt somewhat assess that the States want to harm the cashflow..

So, this was simply the first explanation for the harsher customs which popped in my mind.

 

- Secret, for the case they keep on selling NSI or further patented stuff because of the US patent laws.

Otherwise, I guess, they could be sued as a parent company in the US.

 

So just some wild speculations.

 

- Regarding Soccer, the Fifa is for me a mafia which try to gain influence.

But from the most optimistic view,so apart from Agressions etc., its a reason to celebrate

Like New Year. It went boring to me with the Years, but my friends and I still  meet each other on new Year watch TV and talk or go to a platform to see the fireworks over the City.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Flex, 13 June 2014 - 10:28 PM.

[Lobotomy]

Those MOTHERFUCKERS. Just when I thought I have exhausted every possible remedy, Neuralstem both raises and destroys my hopes.

Edited by Lobotomy, 14 June 2014 - 01:46 AM.

[StevesPetRat]

So, group buy, then? Certainly enough interest and labs have experience with synth by now.

[foreseason]

We are basically a free clinical trial for them.

You're comparing highly regulated, scientifically based clinical trials to longecity forum posts?

Have you read the NSI-threads recently? Half of the posts have been arguments about whether or not what people are ingesting is actually NSI-189.

I really hope nueralstem isn't trying to learn about their billion dollar medication from a bunch of random people they know nothing about ingesting some powder that may or may not be NSI-189?

Someone mentioned that this will make them look bad, that is far from the truth. Trust me no one is going to blame Neural Stem for OUR actions, people would blame this forum or the internet as a whole before the press acted against Neural Stem directly.

You have a lot more faith in the media, and people in general, than me. People have no problem blaming guns for the actions of their users

[themadscientist]

We'll apperantallly Nerual Stem doesn't have the same views you have. Do you really think they added longevity/nootropics based on their own research? Also your analogy doesn't really fit well in to this situation. How often do you hear about a steroid manufacture taking blaming for the actions of a body builder?

[themadscientist]

Sorry about the spelling errors, my iPhone has a mind of its own.

[Nattzor]

We'll apperantallly Nerual Stem doesn't have the same views you have. Do you really think they added longevity/nootropics based on their own research? Also your analogy doesn't really fit well in to this situation. How often do you hear about a steroid manufacture taking blaming for the actions of a body builder?

 

Yupp, anti-aging/nootropic has always been on the list on "potential uses" afaik. To think they figured it out from longecity is laughable.

[themadscientist]

Do you know this for a fact? Aside from speaking to CUR directly, you have no way of proving that statement. It's "laughable" ? Well they are obviously checking this forum, it's the only explanation for how they could be up to date with the retailers who are selling the product. This company is not as complex as you think. Their market cap is not in the billions, as someone mentioned previously on here. There are 1,000's of companies just like it, who all claim to have the next "miracle drug". They are a business, they search the internet about their products just like everyone else. Neural Stem has a reputation on wall street for over marketing there products, so I'm sure they added longevity based on the demand they seen on this forum. I'm a experienced equity trader for a well established firm, so i have a little a experience with bio pharma companies.

[Nattzor]

Do you know this for a fact? Aside from speaking to CUR directly, you have no way of proving that statement. It's "laughable" ? Well they are obviously checking this forum, it's the only explanation for how they could be up to date with the retailers who are selling the product. This company is not as complex as you think. Their market cap is not in the billions, as someone mentioned previously on here. There are 1,000's of companies just like it, who all claim to have the next "miracle drug". They are a business, they search the internet about their products just like everyone else. Neural Stem has a reputation on wall street for over marketing there products, so I'm sure they added longevity based on the demand they seen on this forum. I'm a experienced equity trader for a well established firm, so i have a little a experience with bio pharma companies.

 

Well, it depends if you believe they found longecity directly when the first NSI-189 thread was made here, then set up an experiment within one month (and the thread died really fast, within days/weeks, doubt it ranked good then).

 

http://web.archive.o...-in-development

 

Based on that they've also always had some form of neurodegenerative diseases (heck, they even added "neurodegenerative diseases") and memory problems, I'm fairly sure they've always known that. Do you really think that the scientists couldn't figure out nootropic/anti-aging purposes when the drug makes a part of the brain related to higher thinking bigger?

 

Source on wall street claim?

[themadscientist]

It doesn't matter if the thread died quickly or not. Longecity has excellent SEO optimization, meaning that the first page will contain the Longecity thread on NSI-189. Now if I was a up and coming business (which CUR is) and I seen this, I'm going to attempt to cater to that customer base. Now before you throw some ethical statement out about how they would never do something like that because they wouldn't want a bad reputation, just remember they need something to give shareholders and investors to thrive on, otherwise they would be no interest and they would go bankrupt. CUR is a research company meaning they have no real revenue besides for funding. So content such as news, info, and possibilities is all they have to gain capital at the moment.

[Ceretropic]

Upon further investigation, it would seem that I overestimated their market cap, and the amount they spent on development. They are worth ~125million. That is still a lot more than we are worth. But I suppose the difference between getting in a fight with a billion dollar company, and a hundred million dollar company, is not really that much different. And you don't get to be a hundred million dollar company without investors. So I am sure they have to answer to a lot of people who value their investment more than the advancement of neuroscience.

 

They have made public statements referencing the results people were getting on this forum. So we know they come here, and value the anecdotes here at least a little bit. Whether or not the reports here have influenced their decisions in any way, I doubt we'll ever really know. If I saw a group of people getting my new compound, and getting good results, I would probably mention it in a marketing sense too. I doubt it would affect my decisions about the direction of the substance, though.

 

Irregardless, they are probably in a tough spot. I'm sure the researchers themselves would love to see us get the compound out now, and start helping people. But the business end of the company really has their hands tied with the way the laws are written. Our patent laws are very complex. Short of doing something like what Tesla just did, and opening up the patents to everyone, I think they have to go after everyone. That is why Tesla opened theirs up. They were spending more on lawyers to do the required defending of said patents, rather than what they really want to focus on, which is R&D.

[chemicalambrosia]

 

We'll apperantallly Nerual Stem doesn't have the same views you have. Do you really think they added longevity/nootropics based on their own research? Also your analogy doesn't really fit well in to this situation. How often do you hear about a steroid manufacture taking blaming for the actions of a body builder?

 

Yupp, anti-aging/nootropic has always been on the list on "potential uses" afaik. To think they figured it out from longecity is laughable.

 

 

 

Do you know this for a fact? Aside from speaking to CUR directly, you have no way of proving that statement. It's "laughable" ? Well they are obviously checking this forum, it's the only explanation for how they could be up to date with the retailers who are selling the product. This company is not as complex as you think. Their market cap is not in the billions, as someone mentioned previously on here. There are 1,000's of companies just like it, who all claim to have the next "miracle drug". They are a business, they search the internet about their products just like everyone else. Neural Stem has a reputation on wall street for over marketing there products, so I'm sure they added longevity based on the demand they seen on this forum. I'm a experienced equity trader for a well established firm, so i have a little a experience with bio pharma companies.

 

I don't know that they were necessarily checking the forums, but they probably have by now. There has been cross posting from the CUR yahoo finance forum and this one/reddit. I know some shareholders on the yahoo finance board were pretty up in arms when they saw people were boot legging NSI-189, and I wouldn't be surprised if they contacted the company about it. Group buys are different from a retailer planning on openly marketing it on a web site. The first it is safe to say is probably out of a company's control and wouldn't affect a patent claim, but the latter could definitely affect their patent.

 

Also, a little off topic, but why do you say they have a reputation for over marketing their products? Obviously they don't have products to market yet, but you mean they are over promotional? It doesn't really seem that way to me, but I guess I could think of a couple instances that might fit that mold(every press release related to the NFL). Can you give some specific reasons or instances that show why they are over promotional/ over marketing?

 

Edited by chemicalambrosia, 14 June 2014 - 04:54 PM.

[themadscientist]

I'm sorry, I'm actually at a family party so I need to make this quick. Typically reputable companies don't do interviews with stock newsletters, which is something CUR has been known to do. They actually did something recently with a newsletter called smithonstocks. Also when I say market their products, I'm not referring to consumers, I'm talking about marketing to investors. Almost every company who is publicly traded on an exchange is worth 100+ million, its the investors who created their market cap, not their products .

[Nattzor]

It doesn't matter if the thread died quickly or not. Longecity has excellent SEO optimization, meaning that the first page will contain the Longecity thread on NSI-189. Now if I was a up and coming business (which CUR is) and I seen this, I'm going to attempt to cater to that customer base. Now before you throw some ethical statement out about how they would never do something like that because they wouldn't want a bad reputation, just remember they need something to give shareholders and investors to thrive on, otherwise they would be no interest and they would go bankrupt. CUR is a research company meaning they have no real revenue besides for funding. So content such as news, info, and possibilities is all they have to gain capital at the moment.

 

I had no intention to say that. And even if longecity has excellent SEO optimization, it wont rank good enough with a few posts and then the thread died. A lot more sites (newssites, way better PR and SEO) had posted about it before here. Even if they found it, do you think they'd throw together random research on anti-aging/nootropic purposes in less than a month, for a thread that had died after a few days of posting? Or heck, even get approved for those purposes/plan studies on it in a month? If it was just to make us here happy, why have they removed a lot of disease from the list? Wouldn't it make sense to throw in every disease?

 

 

I'm sorry, I'm actually at a family party so I need to make this quick. Typically reputable companies don't do interviews with stock newsletters, which is something CUR has been known to do. They actually did something recently with a newsletter called smithonstocks. Also when I say market their products, I'm not referring to consumers, I'm talking about marketing to investors. Almost every company who is publicly traded on an exchange is worth 100+ million, its the investors who created their market cap, not their products .

 

Have fun! I don't think people here will care if you wait until tomorrow to reply

 

I think they did it with smitonstocks because they were announcing when they were going to publish the results, driving up the hype more (as you said).

[tolerant]

Hello, I just registered to buy some of this NSI-189 stuff? Is the topic starter still selling it?