19 replies to this topic

[normalizing]

i was posting in an older d-serine related thread for a while, no responses there from what i assume is old outdated thread with 9 pages of discussions which probably scares people off to try and actually get to the bottom of it. so i decided to make a new thread relation serine and its nootropic effects.

this i found recently and its a very recent study; http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24671106

there was an older study in which the d- part of serine was helpful in schizophrenia too.

 

im just curious to find out people who are interested in l-serine's nootropic qualities and its NGF (which seems quite potent from what i can gather) who have tried using it or want to try using it and report back here. im surprised people would much rather spend their time and money on research chemicals when there are substances which are more naturally compatable with the human system than most of the stuff that comes out as research chems and YET nobody really cares to discuss serine now for a bout 5 years or so since studies have been showing very positive results. i doubt its expensive to acquire and im sure at least few of you people have tried it BUT do not care to discuss it?? either way, please be helpful and try to add some information on this!

[Arjuna]

I'm very curious about serine as well. I've taken DMG and TMG and responded really well to both, and I'm curious as to whether they metabolize into serine. Glycine is helpful for schizophrenia, and the DMG and TMG (simply methylated glycine) is profoundly helpful for autism.

I'm also perplexed as to why people don't try this over piracetam and the -racetams. They all potentiate the NMDA receptor, but in a bad way, they lower the voltage required to activate it. This gives short term benefits and long term disasters such as excitiotoxicity and increased addictive tendencies (proven with mice). These drugs WILL down regulate NMDA receptors, lessen signaling long term, and potentially kill neurons.

Back to glycine/serine/TMG, they are all agonists of the NMDA receptor provided there is the appropriate voltage, so they give signaling when needed. If you combine this effect with magnesium supplements, which show a whole plethora of cognitive benefits from dementia to addiction to autism to ADHD you will have a higher number or NMDA receptors on synapses that all fire well with the glycine. Boom. Goodbye memory issues. Goodbye baseline anxiety (ambient noise from too much activation from lack of magnesium). Goodbye dopamine receptor down regulation (more dopamine signaling will be required to turn on a NMDA signaling cascade).

If you take care of the NMDA and give antioxidants to fight inflammation your brain will be in good shape. Perhaps serine is like choline where the cell removes it from the phospholipid bilateral when it needs it.

Edited by Arjuna, 28 April 2014 - 05:26 PM.

[normalizing]

DMG and TMG never did anything for me. maybe you took high doses prolonged time? anyway you should try serine and report.

can i ask how did you come up with the idea of piracetams being excitotoxic long term? and do you mean just few of them or the newer ones too?

and do you really think, not assume only based on personal experience, that DMG and TMG might normalize and stablize NMDA long term??

[normalizing]

this really aggrevates me now. how come both forms L & D serine are so hard to acquire?? i keep checking google, its always those bulk powders from research labs. why the hell is serine not widely available? nothing that says research chem or illegal status on it, yet its so obscure and hidden from the public. its always like this with something that actually has proven effect compared to the silly cheap vitamins and minerals sold EVERYWHERE by thousand of companies.

[formergenius]

D-serine is available from SmartPowders. Purebulk seems to carry L-serine.

Edited by formergenius, 29 April 2014 - 04:31 AM.

[normalizing]

which one you think is more useful though, d or the l version??

[formergenius]

Depends on what you're using it for I suppose. I'm not that well-read on L-serine, but D-serine seems to be the most superior NMDAR glycine site agonist available currently. Glycine and Sarcosine don't cut it for me, though I've yet to try D-serine.
Do you have more studies that you can link on L-serine? Kind of hard finding anything about it, considering my searches bring up other *-serines and peptides.
Maybe go racemic?

[Geoffrey]

If the serines are NMDA-r agonists at the glycine binding site, then they act in the same way as sunifiram and also quite a few racetams. What makes them any different in terms of the (unproven) potential for inducing excitotoxicity, especially in combination with substances that raise glutamate levels? I can't see a reason for condemning the racetams/racerams on the one hand and promoting the serines on the other when they have a very similar effect on the NMDA receptor. Furthermore, note this (http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=535006) from the other thread:
 

Moreover, most of D-serine-positive neurons were GABAergic (98%), underwent degenerating death (93%), and were accompanied enhancing phosphorylation of NMDA receptor subunit 1. This study has provided new evidence that up-regulation of D-serine production might induce GABAergic neuronal degeneration through excitotoxic mechanism in the pilocarpine model and may be involved in early pathogenesis and recurrent seizure of chronic epilepsy.

[normalizing]

Depends on what you're using it for I suppose. I'm not that well-read on L-serine, but D-serine seems to be the most superior NMDAR glycine site agonist available currently. Glycine and Sarcosine don't cut it for me, though I've yet to try D-serine.
Do you have more studies that you can link on L-serine? Kind of hard finding anything about it, considering my searches bring up other *-serines and peptides.
Maybe go racemic?

 

i saw good stuff on NCBI relating the l-serine form, but it was a while ago and today i went to do search on "l-serine" it shows like 15000 results and i cannot find what i remember were good results regarding cognition and especially helpful in schizophrenia problems. i know i saw quite few while ago while searching for various NGF substances...

i did find another d-serine article tho; http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24009551 which makes me question if its really possible to be bad for GABA as unbeatableking states since i have seen not a single actual study saying it is!

 

and i tried glycine too and it wasnt anything interesting really. strangely enough it kind of excited me if anything, worked well with caffeine to get me excited. but it wasnt anything major, just quite mild in big doses. can you tell me how you felt on glycine and sarcosine?

Edited by normalizing, 30 April 2014 - 05:53 PM.

[formergenius]

Yes, it seems to be quite the controversial topic.

Glycine: nauseous at 800mg/kg, no psychoactivity apart from perhaps slight improvement in sleep

Sarcosine: nothing

[normalizing]

i think you should at least try either the l or d or both together versions of serine before you dismiss this totally. but it has to be from reputable sources. even though those bulk powder places sell so much cheaper, im always worried of the quality...

[Arjuna]

Yeah I retract that crap, the racetams are safe. I used aniracetam pramiracetam and piracetam and for a period of time they squashed mental fog and gave me a photographic memory, followed by months of the dumbest I've ever been in my life. The fact that they agonize the receptors agrees with how they increase addiction, and if you extrapolate that to one's mental life it is like thoughts themselves become addictive. This is what I experienced, lots of mental chatter and repetitive thinking. My experience with magnesium and nmda antagonists have been great for cognition and mood. They up regulate the receptor so that a clearer signal is made. At first the magnesium and nmda antagonists felt like they were slowing down my brain, then the regulation came and it is very nice. Long story short piracetam is a great short term solution to memory and brain fog, and magnesium is the ultimate long term solution. There may be some studies out there supporting the toxicity, especially in people susceptible to it due to diet or genes (ADHD and autism types) because of the agonism at the receptor.

But alas, the thread is about serine.

[normalizing]

^ damn right its about serine. so from all you have said here, racetams being short term solution, and NMDA antagonists being long term solution, where do you think serine comes in this considering it actually has effect on NMDA??

[Barfly]

Yeah I retract that crap, the racetams are safe. I used aniracetam pramiracetam and piracetam and for a period of time they squashed mental fog and gave me a photographic memory, followed by months of the dumbest I've ever been in my life. The fact that they agonize the receptors agrees with how they increase addiction, and if you extrapolate that to one's mental life it is like thoughts themselves become addictive. This is what I experienced, lots of mental chatter and repetitive thinking. My experience with magnesium and nmda antagonists have been great for cognition and mood. They up regulate the receptor so that a clearer signal is made. At first the magnesium and nmda antagonists felt like they were slowing down my brain, then the regulation came and it is very nice. Long story short piracetam is a great short term solution to memory and brain fog, and magnesium is the ultimate long term solution. There may be some studies out there supporting the toxicity, especially in people susceptible to it due to diet or genes (ADHD and autism types) because of the agonism at the receptor.

But alas, the thread is about serine.

 

I apologize for slightly derailing this thread but can you please tell us which form of magnesium and how much you take, also what nmda antagonist are you taking? Thanks

[StevesPetRat]

Not to derail the thread, but glycine was mentioned. Is there an excitotoxicity risk with it? ... OK Googled it... shit.

What will I use to digest my protein now?

[Arjuna]

I take the expensive threonate form because I like it so much. The nmda antagonist I use frequently is cats claw extract (not voltage dependent, has lots of other effects on maoib, 5ht2a, estrogen receptors, inflammation). If I've been partying too hard I reset my receptors with 100mg of dextromorphan.

Edited by Arjuna, 02 June 2014 - 03:17 PM.

[scitris]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12534373

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19963421

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18296366

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18319065

 

papers that are related to serine and cns/brain    

[normalizing]

too many derails in my thread and to this day, not a goddamn single report of anyone using serine as success....

[airplanepeanuts]

D-serine I don't like as it causes headaches after a while and it might even be unhealthy.

L-serine I find is great for motivation.

[EEtanner]

Necro!

I picked up 500mg L-Serine from Douglas Labs.  The idea being to help protect me from any harm from BMAA in the seafood I eat.  I tend to eat more fish then land animals and live very close to areas that have had algae blooms and tests done for the BMAA in the seafood.  I am unsure if I'm being paranoid or not - but I figured I would feel more comfortable doing _something_ about it then worrying about it.

I cannot however give much feedback as I have only taken it for a few days.  I will report back when I have more experience to share.