329 replies to this topic

[Cyberbrain]

I choose atheist, but I'm considering becoming an agnostic.

[jackinbox]

I choose atheist, but I'm considering becoming an agnostic.

That's a curious transition. What's your motivation?

[Cyberbrain]

I choose atheist, but I'm considering becoming an agnostic.

That's a curious transition. What's your motivation?

I consider myself an atheist - but that does not mean God may not be real.

It's more a definition thing then a philosophical transition. I don't believe in god because I have no need to.

But at the same time I acknowledge the fact that there is no way to actually prove or disprove God's existence.




Also, who ever created the poll ... could they add agnoskeptic?

Edited by Kostas, 09 February 2008 - 11:48 PM.

[StrangeAeons]

I am agnostic and not atheist. The theoretical shades of gray inside both terms allows for a great deal of overlap and semantical quibbling, so I'll explain my beliefs more thoroughly:
I do not believe in this silly paradigm some people are using of "god" or "no god". What do you mean when you speak of "god"? Therein lie an infinite number of potential variations. What is the entity's nature? What is its intent? What is the scope of its power? What is the scope of its knowledge? And this is simply variation under the singular term of god, but to speak of various gods, divine beings, or unconscious metaphysical forces would introduce even more possibilities. Additionally, insofar as metaphysics is concerned: are we speaking of forces that are determined by the physical world, forces that are descriptive of the physical world (i.e. the physical world determines them), or perhaps laws of what we actually know as science that legitimately correlate to our notions of spirituality, the divine, etc, all of which we have yet to discover. With a little imagination you can readily envision a wealth of possibilities regarding things we may perceive to be supernatural, spiritual, or divine that could conceivably exist; and it is possible that we are incapable of currently observing, describing, or characterizing them because of the constraints imposed upon us by our own consciousness, or because of the relative inferiority of our ration and science. Most importantly, I think it is impossible for us to legitimately characterize consciousness in full (and I include in that such unknowns as what happens after our physical bodies "die" i.e. our known physical correlates of consciousness, and the existence of "free will" and "souls" ). This is because we perceive all things through the vessel of consciousness; thus our consciousness is the most fundamental tool of science, and we cannot examine the tool with that tool. That would be akin to looking at a microscope through that same microscope. Regardless, I see conventional religion as a remote postulation with an infinitesimal probability of veracity made for ulterior motives, those being our own psychological need of reassurance.

[xEva]

What?! Immortality board does not list Taoism as a choice in this poll?! hahahahahahahaha - or should I cry?

Seriously, I'm blown away. I can't believe you never heard of it or did not know that its central belief is the same as yours. So, why?

[Lazarus Long]

Lex back when this poll was made there was a limit to the number of options and I suspect that Taoism (along with Jainism, Deism, and Unitarianism) were all provided under either the heading *other* or the larger category like *Christian*, *Buddhist*, or *Muslim.* It doesn't list Catholic, Confusionist, or Shia either.

Please don't take it personally.

[Cyberbrain]

I choose atheist, but I'm considering becoming an agnostic.

That's a curious transition. What's your motivation?

Well agnostic in theory, atheist in practice.

[Shannon Vyff]

Unitarian Universalists cover every religion, we have a high rate of atheists, secular humanists and agnostics too. Ben Best once gave a presentation to a UU church, and had someone sign up for cryonics--we are pretty open minded. Problem is with all the variety, churches can have vastly different 'feels', some being political, some new age, some intellectual and a few more Christian spiritual. I've been to UU churches in California, Washington, Oregon, Kansas, Hawaii, Arizona, Colorado, Texas and Washington D.C., I've seen all the types .

[gashinshotan]

Is there a religion that accepts the existence of a god/gods but chooses to openly oppose such deities? After all, if they can achieve divinity so can we - immortalism .

"I will scale the heavens; Above the stars of God I will set up my throne; I will command angels, in the recesses of the North. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will be like the Most High!" - Isaiah

[Benedictus]

Accidentally chose "atheist", because I didn't really notice "other" as an option. I'd prefer to change that.

I'm not a theist, and I'm very much into science (it's my current occupation, i.e. I make money in the field) but I have experienced (and still at odd times experience) pretty weird and unexplainable things that cannot be considered mere coincidence, things I don't contribute to a higher being but now classify as some kind of bond with a global or cosmic conscience (and the power it might cause or insert in my mind).

Best explained by giving day-to-day life examples, perhaps;
I've often found myself utterly flabbergasted because I switched on a random source of music-play (a radio-station or other type of source with external control of its content) at a random time of the day, and then noticed that while I had a particular song by a particular artist clearly in my mind just minutes before I switched on that radio/tv (or other controlled-by-others music-media-source) it would play that exact song for me. All in a matter of - for example - 15 minutes time, with too uncommon factors in the entire equation to make me think "hey, that's funny, I just wrote down the title of that song, thought about it, and it gets played minutes after that!". Considering that I rarely listen to a music source that does not play what I choose it to play (i.e. isn't controlled by my input), it has totally overruled chance. It just does not compute. It can't be that a particularly rare old pop-song enters my mind, and then when I enter a supermarket somewhere this exact rare old pop-song starts playing in there. I have often tried to put this experience into words, but it still is hard to explain. I can't really qualify it as a gift, but when I was really young I sort of found out that the way I experienced it was not very common (while for me it was), and I might 'suffer' from some type of clairvoyance. Being the skeptic that I am, I wanted to be able to prove to others and myself that what I experience is not just chance or luck or coincidence. How does one do this? One really can't, because the experiences occur in an unpredictable environment and/or situation. I do have some close friends who have often noticed a strange abnormal capacity of predict-ability in what I would whistle or hum, minutes or even seconds before it would play on the car stereo and similar odd things like that. They would then look at me puzzled, suspecting me to work at the particular radiostation (because I have been employed at some in my life), but I could prove I did not. It's mostly connected to music, has been all my life. So what type of belief would that imply? What causes that? Telepathy? More direct access to a global or cosmic conscienceness?

Edited by Benedictus, 13 April 2008 - 04:41 PM.

[forever freedom]

What causes that?

Have you done any surgery yet? Maybe someone forgot an antenna inside you.

[Benedictus]

Have you done any surgery yet? Maybe someone forgot an antenna inside you.

What kind of antenna would that be, then? I'm pretty experienced in building HF RF electronics, antennas even, but I have yet to see something that could do what I was describing. It would have to be able to bind with brain-functions, i.e. it would need to be quite advanced bio-tech.

If you were trying to make fun of me; It isn't meant to be taken as a joke. I'm entirely serious about it. I don't do drugs (never have), I don't smoke (never have, except secondary), I rarely drink alcohol (I'm never drunk), and I trust my own perception of reality, time and consciousness.

Edited by Benedictus, 14 April 2008 - 02:11 AM.

[zoolander]

is it so important in today's society to choose one of the above labels? I hate labels which in itself is like the hating labels label. X|

[Cyberbrain]

is it so important in today's society to choose one of the above labels? I hate labels which in itself is like the hating labels label. X|

I have to agree. I hate labeling my self and others a certain title. It only perpetuates further division among society.

[Lurker]

is it so important in today's society to choose one of the above labels? I hate labels which in itself is like the hating labels label. X|

Agreed, there is also a generalization that religion beliefs are polar/atomic. There are plenty of sub catagories of the stated beliefs, and there is a big difference between a "weak atheist" and a "strong atheist", but "weak athiests" are very simlilar to agnostic beliefs. Many of the people who have stated that they are atheist, but are considering becoming agnostic would probally fit well into the catagory of "agnostic atheist." The same concepts hold true for people on the otherside of the spectrum as well.

Edited by Lurker, 17 April 2008 - 04:32 PM.

[Shannon Vyff]

There are atheists at our church, because our church talks about modern self help, national and local politics, secular humanism, evolutionary psychology from the pulpit. We have parenting, couples, massage, choir, finance, history, dance, world religions classes. We are accepting of anyone, and have strong community. Our church has a thousand members, I'm on the yahoo group of 200 hundred parents, and a yahoo group with 200 people in my age group (they are mid twenties to later thirties) these groups will post parties, cool Austin events they are attending (I'm taking my kids to a free frog festival tonight at a local wildlife center that a parent had posted about), things people are giving away (we got our guinea pigs this way), reviews of babysitters, reviews of local businesses, rooms for rent, requests for traveling partners--all sorts of things. People help each other complete home projects, help each other move, take food to those who are sick or just had a baby.

Through church we do social action, tomorrow I'm taking my three children to 'Hands on Housing', we'll be nailing, painting, helping build a home for a church member who qualifies for the program (it is need based). Later we'll go to an event at our church called 'Parenting Beyond Belief' it is for the parents of course, but the kids will get to play and do arts (we have the coolest play-ground around )

There are too many benefits of being part of a community, one that is accepting of atheists and any religions--some couples come who each believe different things, there are some 'inter-religion' couples who come to our church since one is Jewish for instance, and one is Christian. In the Sunday School class I teach children are free to talk about not believing in God (the kids learn the tenets of all the major world religions, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Paganism etc.) we have some kids who do believe in God, and they are accepted as well. It is cute to see the kids work out their beliefs.

As a teacher I've received training, in June I'm getting sent to a week long training in Dallas to be a certified human sexuality teacher. I get paid to be a teacher, and get training I volunteer in many positions too though, I'm the co-chair and secretary of the Children's Programming Committee, and am joining the Board of Directors of our Church. I help with my kids campfire club as a co-leader.

We have dedicated 'strong' atheists--but we don't label--UU churches are welcoming communities to all, gay/straight, believing/non believing.

Always one of my favorite things about the UU churches I've been a member of, are the older couples--the people in their 70's, 80's and older. We have a friend who is 96, we've been out to lunch with her--my youngest age 6, seeks her out to give her a hug, every time we are at church. My youngest has been doing that since she was 4, just on her own. My children learn about caring for and respecting not just other religions, but the elderly as well.

I tell the kids is my First Unitarian Universalist Church that they are the smartest kids, because of all they learn--day after tomorrow I'm teaching about Mohammed. (Then I'm off to play in my first roller-girl game, a group I joined with two friends from church ) I also talk about transhumism, the future, cryonics --all sorts of things. It inspires and uplifts me to see how excited kids get about ideas that adults are often closed to. I have the hope that some of them will keep those things with them as they grow.

Church is like extended family, and when I'm leaving Austin in a year, I'll miss my best friends and stay in touch with them--but most importantly I know that where ever I move I'll have family there--in my local UU church. I'll have parties, dinners, kids groups, classes--all stuff I can attend and meet people in my first weeks of the next lace I'll be living for a few years before we get a permanent home (after my husband has completed his Ph.D. and picked where he wants to work long term).

Anyway, my life has been enriched in a multitude of incalculatable ways due to my church involvement, I love my friends, my learning, my teaching, my volunteering. If you have a UU church in your area, you can attend for a while--see what kind it is, things you like and don't like (I'd love to hear about it) but you can start a sci-fi group, or futurist group or join a secular humanist group... (do a presentation on cryonics , I do that each year at our end-of-life workshop--but we have my book '21st Century Kids' in our bookshop) or just attend parties for a while to meet people .

[Ganshauk]

We question gods to their faces and reap what reward and retribution that brings. We do not ask for sanction, we do not do what you or anyone else thinks is right but what we determine for ourselves in communication with our conscience and what cosmic spirit is perceived.

Wow.

This statement is the most human thing you have ever said.

Im impressed. Its also true :

"Man creates God in his own Image."

There is an obscure theory floating about out there that has that weird ring of truth about it. This is only my humble opinion, of course.

The theory goes thus :

In the beginning, there was man. He spread out from Africa and after a few iterations of living and dying became Homo Erectus and populated the globe (eventually). Anyway, the original species had a single religion. As man spread across the globe, he took this ancient religion with him.

When new environments were encountered, the relgion of Man was transmogrified in order to accomodate survival under such adverse conditions. However, the base tenets of the religion remains.

Thus, in the harsh northern wastes where survival was brutal, the gods expect brutality in order to admit the dead into valhalla. The meditarranean, a somnolent climate, requiered much less brutal principles to gain access to paradise.

Look around tho. The gods are the same. The principles underlying the social contract are identical. Globally, there is a correlation.

Man, indeed, creates god in his own image.

God lets him. Man was created in his image, after all.

This is the essence of freewill.

This is touching the underlying strata that we think of as the truth. The diversity of life, freewill, religion. It doesn't matter. We created all of it. In the end there is no dogma, prayers, anything. There is the original word that spawned us,. That is all.

[John_Ventureville]

I identify with the Mormon Transhumanist Association.

http://transfigurism.../entry2338.aspx

http://deseretnews.c...5174444,00.html

http://transfigurism.org/community/


John Grigg : )

[lunarsolarpower]

Have you done any surgery yet? Maybe someone forgot an antenna inside you.

What kind of antenna would that be, then? I'm pretty experienced in building HF RF electronics, antennas even, but I have yet to see something that could do what I was describing. It would have to be able to bind with brain-functions, i.e. it would need to be quite advanced bio-tech.

If you were trying to make fun of me; It isn't meant to be taken as a joke. I'm entirely serious about it. I don't do drugs (never have), I don't smoke (never have, except secondary), I rarely drink alcohol (I'm never drunk), and I trust my own perception of reality, time and consciousness.

I remember experiencing the same thing a few times as a kid. I eventually passed it off as my brain unconsciously picking up some resonance of the song being played on the airwaves although I had no idea how. It could have been the bass pattern from a passing car moments before triggering the memory of the song. Or it might even have been neurons somehow detecting RF waves.

A long time ago I read an article about a neural network that was given the task of learning how to measure very precise intervals of time. However it was not given any requisite hardware to do so. After perhaps millions of iterations the network acquired the ability despite its lack of what was considered essential hardware for keeping precise measure of time. I just tried searching for the article but have come up empty handed.

[Oliver_R]

Would have been goog for the "other"bit to be seperated into "other - religious" and "other - non-religious" but never mind. Interesting poll. I put secular humanist, but agnostic or atheist would have been possibilities too

[Lotus]

My religious views are a mix of buddhism and paganism. Buddhism because it's one of the most "intelligent" religions out there, some branches focusing on developing the mind and expanding consciousness. Paganism because I love nature and I think that this planet and the life on it is the only thing worthy of my devotion. I can see it clearly all around me and I know without a shred of doubt that it exists and sustains me. I do not see the point in worshipping some fantasy figure up in the sky somewhere when this beautiful, amazingly vibrant, mostly benevolent entity is all around me every day, in plain view.

[RLvB]

Secular-humanist atheist agnostic - I didn't vote on the poll.

Accidentally chose "atheist", because I didn't really notice "other" as an option. I'd prefer to change that.

I'm not a theist, and I'm very much into science (it's my current occupation, i.e. I make money in the field) but I have experienced (and still at odd times experience) pretty weird and unexplainable things that cannot be considered mere coincidence, things I don't contribute to a higher being but now classify as some kind of bond with a global or cosmic conscience (and the power it might cause or insert in my mind).

Best explained by giving day-to-day life examples, perhaps;
I've often found myself utterly flabbergasted because I switched on a random source of music-play (a radio-station or other type of source with external control of its content) at a random time of the day, and then noticed that while I had a particular song by a particular artist clearly in my mind just minutes before I switched on that radio/tv (or other controlled-by-others music-media-source) it would play that exact song for me. All in a matter of - for example - 15 minutes time, with too uncommon factors in the entire equation to make me think "hey, that's funny, I just wrote down the title of that song, thought about it, and it gets played minutes after that!". Considering that I rarely listen to a music source that does not play what I choose it to play (i.e. isn't controlled by my input), it has totally overruled chance. It just does not compute. It can't be that a particularly rare old pop-song enters my mind, and then when I enter a supermarket somewhere this exact rare old pop-song starts playing in there. I have often tried to put this experience into words, but it still is hard to explain. I can't really qualify it as a gift, but when I was really young I sort of found out that the way I experienced it was not very common (while for me it was), and I might 'suffer' from some type of clairvoyance. Being the skeptic that I am, I wanted to be able to prove to others and myself that what I experience is not just chance or luck or coincidence. How does one do this? One really can't, because the experiences occur in an unpredictable environment and/or situation. I do have some close friends who have often noticed a strange abnormal capacity of predict-ability in what I would whistle or hum, minutes or even seconds before it would play on the car stereo and similar odd things like that. They would then look at me puzzled, suspecting me to work at the particular radiostation (because I have been employed at some in my life), but I could prove I did not. It's mostly connected to music, has been all my life. So what type of belief would that imply? What causes that? Telepathy? More direct access to a global or cosmic conscienceness?

it has totally overruled chance. It just does not compute.
Sure it does! Probability guarantees that someone like you will exist. There's no need to start ascribing things like this to the supernatural.

My religious views are a mix of buddhism and paganism. Buddhism because it's one of the most "intelligent" religions out there, some branches focusing on developing the mind and expanding consciousness.

I am interested in Buddhism as well, but is it intelligent to believe in rebirth? Rebirth in the hell realm, or as a demigod even? This is what the Buddha taught.

[Cody]

I chose the proud few group of "Secular Humanists". I believe that people should stop thinking that everything that happens is "divine". I mean, I don't really mind that incredibly much what people believe in, it's just that world religions have caused so much pain and death. More bad then good, really. MANY people die everyday because some guy was trying to appease a false god. It's just so horrible that people have to die for pointless causes.. pathetic, actually.

If you really want to lead a good, productive life, you need to think about what YOU as a person want out of it. When that happens, dreams come true, countries are changed, and people are happier.

Have a nice day guys, Cody

[Connor MacLeod]

I clicked on other as it really depends on the context: while having coffee with a group of academic types I'd probably go with zen buddhism; chatting up some hot hippy chicks in a costal town in California I'd go with either paganism or the new-agey crystal healing stuff; and on imminst it seems that the angry atheist bit, ala Richard Dawkins, never fails to win accolades and friends.

[shifter]

For me, I think the universe is infinite in wonder and vastness. The human mind and our limitations on perception, intelligence and comprehension is unable to say with absolute certainty, that there is no higher being or power or plains of existance. And just because something might be beyond our comprehension or capability to understand, doesn't mean that such a thing does/could not exist. I dont think Agnostics are fence sitters on any subject, rather people who are open minded about possibilties. I would use the word 'Improbable', rather than 'Impossible' for many subjects about the unknown.

However on the same token I do not believe that any religion around today to be absolutley 'correct'. And any religion that surpress its followers, reduces free will and thought, intolerant of other beliefs and is politicised I think is just wrong. Although that pretty much cancels out all the major religions. 'God' may be something far different than anything the human race has concieved for all we know anyway. An Alien in another dimention working with particle acceleration and who has no idea we even exist anyway? (or maybe destroyed its universe in the process). Either way could explain the Big Bang theory of 'something' coming from 'nothing' No one knows!!

But I chose Agnostic. I guess I have that way of thinking of anything unknown. For example, unless I have visited every corner and every place in the universe I cant say 'There are no such thing as Aliens' for example. For now, I am content to saying their existance is probable. (but of course would also like to 'believe' they are out there and that we aren't alone).

Edited by shifter, 31 July 2008 - 03:59 PM.

[Splicer]

I chose 'Other' as I consider myself a Biopunk. My world view is based on evolution and natural selection. We (and everything else alive) are what evolution built - imperfect and full of kinks. Nature exists without purpose so there is no particular reason for us being here. There is nothing we are supposed to do and we are not on our way to someplace special. We are free. Deal with it. My views on religion resonate with atheists like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris. I view information through the goggles of skepticism(Shermer, Randi...) and memetics.

-Splicer

[Moonbeam]

and on imminst it seems that the angry atheist bit, ala Richard Dawkins, never fails to win accolades and friends.

All right! My favorite.

[jCole]

My own identity.