138 replies to this topic

[world33]

I was taking NAC as well until I read that is not suitable for CBS upregulation. It is a pity because initially it had a great effect on me, I felt more clear minded. Then the effect disappeared and I am not sure whether it was doing more harm than good. As you said it is very hard to find the right balance...

[world33]

I googled overmethylation+potassium and it makes sense. As you said, I think you are taking too many methyl donors. Please consider to stop/reduce SAMe and switch to hydroxocobalamin and see how you go.

[Kingsley]

I googled overmethylation+potassium and it makes sense. As you said, I think you are taking too many methyl donors. Please consider to stop/reduce SAMe and switch to hydroxocobalamin and see how you go.

 

I actually don't take SAMe anymore--it was just too much.  It's funny how some people feel overstimulated from too much methylation, whereas for me it is cognitively and emotionally dulling.  When I'm undermethylating, on the other hand, I feel downright stupid.  Still hunting that elusive balance but am narrowing in. 

 

Right now I stick primarily to methylfolate with some cyanocobalamin, and an occasional methylb12 booster (along with other important elements of my stack but won't go into here).  I would like to try hydroxocobalamin and see how it compares to cyano for me.     

[YOLF]

 

I googled overmethylation+potassium and it makes sense. As you said, I think you are taking too many methyl donors. Please consider to stop/reduce SAMe and switch to hydroxocobalamin and see how you go.

 

I actually don't take SAMe anymore--it was just too much.  It's funny how some people feel overstimulated from too much methylation, whereas for me it is cognitively and emotionally dulling.  When I'm undermethylating, on the other hand, I feel downright stupid.  Still hunting that elusive balance but am narrowing in. 

 

Right now I stick primarily to methylfolate with some cyanocobalamin, and an occasional methylb12 booster (along with other important elements of my stack but won't go into here).  I would like to try hydroxocobalamin and see how it compares to cyano for me.     

 

 

I've been overstimulated by methyl donors in the past, but I don't think it was actually overstimulation at all... I was just anemic for it and didn't notice. If I took MB12 and other methyl donors when I was eating gluten/wheat/flour products, I'd feel pretty "cranked" Now "cranked" is just normal for me as I'm able to get plenty of what I need from my diet. I still take a complete b complex for energy and might take some extra MB12 from time to time, but I don't feel like it or HB12 do anything for me now. 

 

Maybe you're not a celiac or are a celiac and already knew it and abstained from gluten/wheat?

[Kingsley]

 

I've been overstimulated by methyl donors in the past, but I don't think it was actually overstimulation at all... I was just anemic for it and didn't notice. If I took MB12 and other methyl donors when I was eating gluten/wheat/flour products, I'd feel pretty "cranked" Now "cranked" is just normal for me as I'm able to get plenty of what I need from my diet. I still take a complete b complex for energy and might take some extra MB12 from time to time, but I don't feel like it or HB12 do anything for me now. 

 

Maybe you're not a celiac or are a celiac and already knew it and abstained from gluten/wheat?

 

 

I'm definitely not celiac, and I can say with some confidence that I am not significantly sensitive to gluten/wheat.  I have been off wheat lately and have not experienced a subjective change. 

 

I think the honeymoon period is very common with methyl donors.  I too initially experienced significant stimulation and mood brightening, whether from methylfolate, methylB12, or SAM-E.  As with anything, it is inevitable that this can't last, which is quite the bummer.

 

However, I find that when I go without methylfolate, my cognition truly suffers, which I discovered recently in a big way.  It's odd; it manifests as a physical feeling in the front of my head, almost like pressure, and my cognition simply stalls.  When I get back on methylfolate, it feels like a clog is dissolving in my brain and I almost instantly begin processing information again.  I've begun to view methylfolate like a diabetic views insulin, though taking too much can also be a problem for me. 

 

I wonder if I don't have some other SNP at work affecting my folate metabolism or methylation.  Sure I'm homozygous for C677T which is of course significant, but I get the sense that I need methylfolate more than most homozygotes.  The C677T SNP is highly researched, and the studies don't seem to reveal the dramatic cognitive ramificiations that I experience.

[YOLF]

I'd say my MB12 stimulation was consistent, but that doesn't mean yours isn't different. 

 

I think I get the sensation you're talking about in my forehead. I seems it gets worse when I take things or do things that increase prolactin, and goes away or diminishes with anything that raises dopamine (a prolactin inhibitor)? The health of my liver also seems to affect it... Particularly taurine and magnesium (both in copious quantities... have Mg Taurate on order). 

 

These days, I only seem to get the forehead sensation later at night. Oh, and showering diminishes the sensation as well.

[aribadabar]

I am also homozygous for MTHFR C77T and tried the suggestions mentioned in this thread.

 

2mg sublingual MB12 overstimulate me while 1mg HB12+1mg A(denosyl)B12 made no significant difference. Both have been coupled with 400mg SAMe+ 50mg P5P+800mcg 5-MTHF and both tests have been performed on an empty stomach first thing in the morning.

 

It is strange because as per Yasko (see table on p.10 in the linked doc) HB12 and AB12 should be the preferred ones in my case (I am COMT V158M +/- and VDR Taq +/-).

 

And I have taken potassium source (as 2g potassium citrate) only when I took the HB12+AB12 dose (it is one pill) and not when I took MB12 which , if I understood correctly, should have only potentiated the effect of the B vitamins combo.

That being said, I often eat bananas and pears which should be a decent source of K.

 

I regularly take 0.5-1mg MB12(with 25-50mg P5P+400-800mcg 5-MTHF, often with 400mg SAMe) with the above combo as part of my daily regimen but don't feel any significant boost. 2mg MB12, however, causes this unmistakeable stimulation /pressure in my forehead (not sure if that's good or bad sign).

I can't say I feel more energized physically or mentally, though.

 

IIRC I tried 2x 1mgHB/1mgAB12 pills once (4mg total cobalamin) and had similar experience so MB12 seem more effective in that regard (eliciting the same response at half the dosage).

 

 

With respect to the molybdenum suggestion, I regularly eat lima beans and red split lentils which seem like a very good source of molybdenum so perhaps I don't need additional supplementation.

 

I tried NAC at 600mg a few times but did not "feel" any effect. Same from 500mg Setria reduced glutathione although I believe in the science behind it.

 

I also regularly take 15ml C60oo per week which initially resulted in boost in olfactory function but nowadays I can't say I notice a difference - maybe I reached a permanently improved state.

Energywise, I can't say I feel super improvement in terms of strength or endurance but I am not very active to begin with. Perhaps there is some benefit since on my last hiking trip I did not feel much exhaustion even though the terrain was pretty challenging and the trek rather long. I believe it is working and will continue taking it.

 

 

Thank you all for the interesting discussion.

 

Edited by aribadabar, 07 October 2015 - 04:16 AM.

[Kingsley]

I am also homozygous for MTHFR C77T and tried the suggestions mentioned in this thread.

 

2mg sublingual MB12 overstimulate me while 1mg HB12+1mg A(denosyl)B12 made no significant difference. Both have been coupled with 400mg SAMe+ 50mg P5P+800mcg 5-MTHF and both tests have been performed on an empty stomach first thing in the morning.

 

It is strange because as per Yasko (see table on p.10 in the linked doc) HB12 and AB12 should be the preferred ones in my case (I am COMT V158M +/- and VDR Taq +/-).

 

And I have taken potassium source (as 2g potassium citrate) only when I took the HB12+AB12 dose (it is one pill) and not when I took MB12 which , if I understood correctly, should have only potentiated the effect of the B vitamins combo.

That being said, I often eat bananas and pears which should be a decent source of K.

 

I regularly take 0.5-1mg MB12(with 25-50mg P5P+400-800mcg 5-MTHF, often with 400mg SAMe) with the above combo as part of my daily regimen but don't feel any significant boost. 2mg MB12, however, causes this unmistakeable stimulation /pressure in my forehead (not sure if that's good or bad sign).

I can't say I feel more energized physically or mentally, though.

 

IIRC I tried 2x 1mgHB/1mgAB12 pills once (4mg total cobalamin) and had similar experience so MB12 seem more effective in that regard (eliciting the same response at half the dosage).

 

 

With respect to the molybdenum suggestion, I regularly eat lima beans and red split lentils which seem like a very good source of molybdenum so perhaps I don't need additional supplementation.

 

I tried NAC at 600mg a few times but did not "feel" any effect. Same from 500mg Setria reduced glutathione although I believe in the science behind it.

 

I also regularly take 15ml C60oo per week which initially resulted in boost in olfactory function but nowadays I can't say I notice a difference - maybe I reached a permanently improved state.

Energywise, I can't say I feel super improvement in terms of strength or endurance but I am not very active to begin with. Perhaps there is some benefit since on my last hiking trip I did not feel much exhaustion even though the terrain was pretty challenging and the trek rather long. I believe it is working and will continue taking it.

 

 

Thank you all for the interesting discussion.

 

Thanks for checking in.  If I understand you correctly, you are not getting a noticeable benefit from your methyl-donor regimen?  Do you have any specific symptoms that you are trying to address? 

 

Couple of comments:

 

I wouldn't put too much stock in a lot of Yasko's claims.  She's notorious for misreading studies and misstating the significance of a number of SNP's.  Her approach has many of the hallmarks of pseudo-science: broad generalizations spiced with facts, conclusory statements, oversimplifications, supplementation formulas ("You have this SNP, therefore you need supplements #1, #4, with a twist of #5, which it just so happens that I sell").  In defense of Yasko and other methylation "authorities" repeating her claims, they often serve as the entry-point to experimenting with supplements, and they do recommend supplements that end up being beneficial for some, even dramatically so.  But I wouldn't be too surprised when your experiences don't match up with the Yasko roadmap.  It is up to you to experiment and find what works for you.   

 

As for potassium, it is not supposed to potentiate the effects of B-vitamins.  The hypothesis is that in some subset of people, increased methylation may cause an increased need for potassium, perhaps due to increased cell division or for any number of reasons.  I seem to be one of those people, and I have read a number of similar anecdotal experiences online.  There is likely no need to supplement potassium unless you experience symptoms indicating an issue, such as fatigue, nausea, cramps, palpitations, etc.  Whether any symptoms you experience are tied to potassium is easy to determine: either you benefit from increased potassium or you don't.

 

As to molybdenum, it is a great supplement to try if you have sensitivities to sulfur or sulfites, or experience any symptoms that you suspect might be tied to such.  For most people, it likely will not produce a subjective benefit, especially if you have a healthy diet, but again, you never know until you try.

 

So, the name of the game is experimentation, research, an open mind, managed expectations, and patience.  But when you hit on something that works, it can be life-changing. 
 

[Kingsley]

I'd say my MB12 stimulation was consistent, but that doesn't mean yours isn't different. 

 

I think I get the sensation you're talking about in my forehead. I seems it gets worse when I take things or do things that increase prolactin, and goes away or diminishes with anything that raises dopamine (a prolactin inhibitor)? The health of my liver also seems to affect it... Particularly taurine and magnesium (both in copious quantities... have Mg Taurate on order). 

 

These days, I only seem to get the forehead sensation later at night. Oh, and showering diminishes the sensation as well.

 

I have read other anecdotal reports of this "pressure"-like feeling, sometimes coinciding with cognitive or mood complaints.  What helps me is primarily methylfolate, but also anti-inflammatories.  I have speculated that it could be due to neuroinflammation, but who knows.

 

Prolactin you say...interesting thought.  Will put it on my list of things to research. 
 

[aribadabar]

 

Thanks for checking in.  If I understand you correctly, you are not getting a noticeable benefit from your methyl-donor regimen?  Do you have any specific symptoms that you are trying to address? 

 

Couple of comments:

 

I wouldn't put too much stock in a lot of Yasko's claims.  She's notorious for misreading studies and misstating the significance of a number of SNP's.  Her approach has many of the hallmarks of pseudo-science: broad generalizations spiced with facts, conclusory statements, oversimplifications, supplementation formulas ("You have this SNP, therefore you need supplements #1, #4, with a twist of #5, which it just so happens that I sell").  In defense of Yasko and other methylation "authorities" repeating her claims, they often serve as the entry-point to experimenting with supplements, and they do recommend supplements that end up being beneficial for some, even dramatically so.  But I wouldn't be too surprised when your experiences don't match up with the Yasko roadmap.  It is up to you to experiment and find what works for you.   

 

As for potassium, it is not supposed to potentiate the effects of B-vitamins.  The hypothesis is that in some subset of people, increased methylation may cause an increased need for potassium, perhaps due to increased cell division or for any number of reasons.  I seem to be one of those people, and I have read a number of similar anecdotal experiences online.  There is likely no need to supplement potassium unless you experience symptoms indicating an issue, such as fatigue, nausea, cramps, palpitations, etc.  Whether any symptoms you experience are tied to potassium is easy to determine: either you benefit from increased potassium or you don't.

 

As to molybdenum, it is a great supplement to try if you have sensitivities to sulfur or sulfites, or experience any symptoms that you suspect might be tied to such.  For most people, it likely will not produce a subjective benefit, especially if you have a healthy diet, but again, you never know until you try.

 

So, the name of the game is experimentation, research, an open mind, managed expectations, and patience.  But when you hit on something that works, it can be life-changing. 
 

 

 

Thank you for your comments.

 

My issues are mild scalp psoriasis which I try to treat with nearly vegan diet (occasional fish, no other meat, eggs or dairy of any kind, also excluding nightshades),  which , I think, leads to decreased energy as the calorie intake is significantly reduced.

Coupled with the MTHFR mutation, my horsepower is significantly diminished.

 

As you mentioned, I am wondering if 800mcg methylfolate is sufficient for us  too. I eat a lot of dark greens daily which should be an additional source for bioavailable folate.

Do you think boosting it to 1.2-1.6mg supplemental 5-MTHF makes sense? I am concerned of the increased hypothetical cancer risk from chronic folate overdose or the risk only applies to synthetic folic acid and not to methyfolate?

 

I do experiment with different substances and I think goji berry juice gives me some energy boost which ironically is considered a nightshade...

 

In terms of methyl sinks, I tried 500mg nicotinic acid at the end of the day (and not to cripple the methyl donors taken in the morning) for lipid control (I am ApoE 3/4 too) and it does give me flush. It is inconsistent, however, as sometimes I don't feel it at all. 

I guess it depends what and how much I have eaten before its intake.

 

As to potassium, I don't think I cover the RDI from food sources so I will continue supplementing it.

 

I would like to ask you which product do you use for molybdenum supplementation?

[Kingsley]

 

Thank you for your comments.

 

My issues are mild scalp psoriasis which I try to treat with nearly vegan diet (occasional fish, no other meat, eggs or dairy of any kind, also excluding nightshades),  which , I think, leads to decreased energy as the calorie intake is significantly reduced.

Coupled with the MTHFR mutation, my horsepower is significantly diminished.

 

As you mentioned, I am wondering if 800mcg methylfolate is sufficient for us  too. I eat a lot of dark greens daily which should be an additional source for bioavailable folate.

Do you think boosting it to 1.2-1.6mg supplemental 5-MTHF makes sense? I am concerned of the increased hypothetical cancer risk from chronic folate overdose or the risk only applies to synthetic folic acid and not to methyfolate?

 

I do experiment with different substances and I think goji berry juice gives me some energy boost which ironically is considered a nightshade...

 

In terms of methyl sinks, I tried 500mg nicotinic acid at the end of the day (and not to cripple the methyl donors taken in the morning) for lipid control (I am ApoE 3/4 too) and it does give me flush. It is inconsistent, however, as sometimes I don't feel it at all. 

I guess it depends what and how much I have eaten before its intake.

 

As to potassium, I don't think I cover the RDI from food sources so I will continue supplementing it.

 

I would like to ask you which product do you use for molybdenum supplementation?

 

 

I think 800 mcg methylfolate is likely sufficient for most C677T homozygotes, especially if spread throughout the day.  Some people swear by more, some less.  Boosting up to 1.2-1.6 mg could make sense, just gotta experiment.

 

My understanding is that the whole folate/cancer risk connection was not born out by subsequent studies.  There has been at least one meta-analysis looking at all of the studies and determining that there is no association between folic acid supplementation and increased cancer risk (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23338728).  I recall coming across commentary by a research scientist on this topic who noted that it is often isolated studies raising alarm bells that get the most attention, while subsequent studies refuting them tend to fly under the radar.  I wouldn't have any concerns on this front.

 

Many swear by nicotinic acid as a methyl sink to help with side effects from too much methylation, though I have never gotten a noticeable positive effect from it in relation to my own side effects.  Based on some recent reading I have been doing, glycine could be a more important methyl sink through the action of the glycine n-methyltransferase enzyme, which some studies have characterized as an important regulator of SAMe levels.  Glycine supplementation is interesting for many reasons, and whether it could be used for overmethylation symptoms would be interesting to find out.

 

I use Kal brand (I think) molybdenum 250 mcg.

 

As to your symptoms of scalp psoriasis and decreased energy, I can't really comment but would be interested to hear if you end up finding something that works.

 

[YOLF]

 

 

Thank you for your comments.

 

My issues are mild scalp psoriasis which I try to treat with nearly vegan diet (occasional fish, no other meat, eggs or dairy of any kind, also excluding nightshades),  which , I think, leads to decreased energy as the calorie intake is significantly reduced.

Coupled with the MTHFR mutation, my horsepower is significantly diminished.

 

As you mentioned, I am wondering if 800mcg methylfolate is sufficient for us  too. I eat a lot of dark greens daily which should be an additional source for bioavailable folate.

Do you think boosting it to 1.2-1.6mg supplemental 5-MTHF makes sense? I am concerned of the increased hypothetical cancer risk from chronic folate overdose or the risk only applies to synthetic folic acid and not to methyfolate?

 

I do experiment with different substances and I think goji berry juice gives me some energy boost which ironically is considered a nightshade...

 

In terms of methyl sinks, I tried 500mg nicotinic acid at the end of the day (and not to cripple the methyl donors taken in the morning) for lipid control (I am ApoE 3/4 too) and it does give me flush. It is inconsistent, however, as sometimes I don't feel it at all. 

I guess it depends what and how much I have eaten before its intake.

 

As to potassium, I don't think I cover the RDI from food sources so I will continue supplementing it.

 

I would like to ask you which product do you use for molybdenum supplementation?

 

 

I think 800 mcg methylfolate is likely sufficient for most C677T homozygotes, especially if spread throughout the day.  Some people swear by more, some less.  Boosting up to 1.2-1.6 mg could make sense, just gotta experiment.

 

My understanding is that the whole folate/cancer risk connection was not born out by subsequent studies.  There has been at least one meta-analysis looking at all of the studies and determining that there is no association between folic acid supplementation and increased cancer risk (http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23338728).  I recall coming across commentary by a research scientist on this topic who noted that it is often isolated studies raising alarm bells that get the most attention, while subsequent studies refuting them tend to fly under the radar.  I wouldn't have any concerns on this front.

 

Many swear by nicotinic acid as a methyl sink to help with side effects from too much methylation, though I have never gotten a noticeable positive effect from it in relation to my own side effects.  Based on some recent reading I have been doing, glycine could be a more important methyl sink through the action of the glycine n-methyltransferase enzyme, which some studies have characterized as an important regulator of SAMe levels.  Glycine supplementation is interesting for many reasons, and whether it could be used for overmethylation symptoms would be interesting to find out.

 

I use Kal brand (I think) molybdenum 250 mcg.

 

As to your symptoms of scalp psoriasis and decreased energy, I can't really comment but would be interested to hear if you end up finding something that works.

 

 

I'd be careful saying that the studies don't mean anything. That's just as misleading as saying they mean x will kill or cancer you. They often mean something very specific that news reporters fail to realize or just don't care about b/c it doesn't make sensational news and they spent their time reading the study and want to make something so their time pays off... They often get paid by the article, so they have to write something, and people have to want to read it. Read the news for entertainment, then read the studies in the context of the rest of the studies and see what is actually being discovered or elucidated. Think of each study as adding new pages to the volume of knowledge on a particular substance. There are also things that you might not recognize until you've read unrelated studies or made connections that are simply widely held assumptions among the scientific elite who publish papers or manage the people who are writing them. Think of it as their way of filtering the data and keeping the paper more concise. 

[niner]

Unless you take a genetic test with 23andme.com and plug your raw data into nutrahacker.com it is really hard to find out what your issue is with your health or those two supplements. I am not sure how much sulphites curcumin or quercetin have by the way.

 

Neither curcumin nor quercetin contain any sulfur at all.

 

That being said, I often eat bananas and pears which should be a decent source of K.

 

Bananas and pears are very poor sources of vitamin K.   (raw pear = 6.7 ug K / 100 g; raw banana = 1.1 ug K/ 100g per nutritiondata.com.  Since this is vitamin K1, you want way more than that; maybe 1000 ug.  (K2 requirements are much lower)  The best source of K1 is greens like Kale, Chard, Collard, Mustard, Beet, etc.)

[aribadabar]

That being said, I often eat bananas and pears which should be a decent source of K.

 

 

Bananas and pears are very poor sources of vitamin K.   (raw pear = 6.7 ug K / 100 g; raw banana = 1.1 ug K/ 100g per nutritiondata.com.  Since this is vitamin K1, you want way more than that; maybe 1000 ug.  (K2 requirements are much lower)  The best source of K1 is greens like Kale, Chard, Collard, Mustard, Beet, etc.)

 

 

Sorry, I meant K as potassium in that sentence. You are right, of course, about vit K sources.

[niner]

Sorry, aribadabar, I should have realized that from the context, since you talked about potassium just before that, and bananas are a classic source of K!  My mistake.

[Kingsley]

 

Neither curcumin nor quercetin contain any sulfur at all.

 

 

If not then I stand corrected.  I read that they do on the internet (nothing reputable) and it seemed to match up with my line of reasoning.  What is the source of your information so that we can put the issue to rest?

[aribadabar]

I am not niner but he is correct.

 

Curcumin:

 

 

Quercetin:

 

 

 

Perhaps they were mentioned as methyl donors (and not as sulfur sources)?

 

1. Be cautious with supplements that provide methyl groups, including methyl-B12, MSM, TMG, DMG, curcumin, melatonin, caffeinated tea, quercetin, 

 

On a second thought, they may have been mentioned as active ingredients of otherwise thiol-rich foods: Allium family of vegetables (quercetin); and turmeric, while not high in sulfur or thiols, has been found to raise GSH (a suplhur-containing molecule) levels significantly. 

Edited by aribadabar, 08 October 2015 - 03:33 PM.

[niner]

Thanks for the structures, aribadabar.  I think hearfixer got mixed up on their methyl donors--  Quercetin can act as a substrate of COMT, in which case it would accept a methyl group, but it wouldn't act as a methyl donor as far as I can figure.  I'm not sure if curcumin could be further methylated by COMT, but I don't see it as a methyl donor.

[world33]

For an interesting article on the Different Types of Methylfolate and their bioavailability check this page http://methyl-life.c...ylfolate-types/
For me 1 or 2 mg of methyfolate would not do much. I know Deplin comes in 7 and 15 mg and gets pretty good reviews at http://www.drugs.com...ate/deplin.html
I have ordered 15mg Extrafolate-S from methylpro.com and see how it compares to the bulk powder I have sourced from an Alibaba supplier. If it is too strong I can open the capsules and take a lower dosage.

Edited by world33, 15 October 2015 - 06:11 AM.

[Kingsley]

For an interesting article on the Different Types of Methylfolate and their bioavailability check this page http://methyl-life.c...ylfolate-types/
For me 1 or 2 mg of methyfolate would not do much. I know Deplin comes in 7 and 15 mg and gets pretty good reviews at http://www.drugs.com...ate/deplin.html
I have ordered 15mg Extrafolate-S from methylpro.com and see how it compares to the bulk powder I have sourced from an Alibaba supplier. If it is too strong I can open the capsules and take a lower dosage.

 

Interesting about the different types.  The fact that you only benefit from very high dose suggests to me that you are experiencing a pharmacological benefit from methylfolate independent from simply correcting a deficiency caused by your MTHFR SNP's.  It has been theorized that methylfolate increases BH4 production and thus dopamine and serotonin, and I believe this is the theory behind Deplin as a treatment for depression.  Interesting discussion of the theory here: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18950248. (funded by Thorne Research, a supplement manufacturer I believe).  See also a critique of these theories and review of the evidence at http://www.thecarlat...me-free-article.

 

Basically, it appears that high dose methylfolate could be an effective treatment for depression for some people, and your experiences support this, but it's far from clear 1) why that's the case and 2) whether regular old folic acid would do the same thing.  Not that the "why" really matters if something is effective for you, but it's an interesting topic. 

[world33]

I tried BH4 in the past and I did not notice any improvement thought. Not sure whether it was a too little dosage or the long shipping time (it is supposed to be refrigerated) made the active ingredient unstable.

[world33]

This Deplin information sheet suggests that the methylfolate half-life is just 3 hours for a 5mg dosage: http://intetlab.com/...ckageInsert.pdf
That is why I notice I need sometime to top up my morning dosage in the afternoon to feel more focused and energetic. I wish someone (i.e. methylpro.com or methyl-life.com) comes with a time release version one day.

[YOLF]

For an interesting article on the Different Types of Methylfolate and their bioavailability check this page http://methyl-life.c...ylfolate-types/
For me 1 or 2 mg of methyfolate would not do much. I know Deplin comes in 7 and 15 mg and gets pretty good reviews at http://www.drugs.com...ate/deplin.html
I have ordered 15mg Extrafolate-S from methylpro.com and see how it compares to the bulk powder I have sourced from an Alibaba supplier. If it is too strong I can open the capsules and take a lower dosage.

 

What kind of pricing are you getting off AB? Maybe we can do a group buy and get the stuff tested for purity and all that? I imagine we could even form a coop from the group buy and become a supplier of it. Deplin isn't covered by most insurance as I understand it and it's a fraction of the price as a supplement ($10-15/mo for 15mg/day vs $60 for Deplin) and it's the same thing. Personally, I'd rather take it several times a day in energy shots and supplement mixes to keep my levels up all day and not just get a spike once a day. Maybe we can make a time release and enteric formulation too or roll all of them into one capsule that would release a few times during the day.

[world33]

For an interesting article on the Different Types of Methylfolate and their bioavailability check this page http://methyl-life.c...ylfolate-types/
For me 1 or 2 mg of methyfolate would not do much. I know Deplin comes in 7 and 15 mg and gets pretty good reviews at http://www.drugs.com...ate/deplin.html
I have ordered 15mg Extrafolate-S from methylpro.com and see how it compares to the bulk powder I have sourced from an Alibaba supplier. If it is too strong I can open the capsules and take a lower dosage.

 
What kind of pricing are you getting off AB? Maybe we can do a group buy and get the stuff tested for purity and all that? I imagine we could even form a coop from the group buy and become a supplier of it. Deplin isn't covered by most insurance as I understand it and it's a fraction of the price as a supplement ($10-15/mo for 15mg/day vs $60 for Deplin) and it's the same thing. Personally, I'd rather take it several times a day in energy shots and supplement mixes to keep my levels up all day and not just get a spike once a day. Maybe we can make a time release and enteric formulation too or roll all of them into one capsule that would release a few times during the day.

 
I bought 10 Grams bulk powder through Alibaba.com for 138 USD from Shanghai Soyoung Biotechnology Inc. As soon I finish the 10 grams I am interested in sourcing Magnafolate-C from Lianyungang Jinkang Pharmaceutical Technology Co., Ltd as mentioned in this webpage http://methyl-life.c...ylfolate-types/
I could not find them in Alibaba so I might contact them when in need of supply. If interested we can organise a group buy at that time.
Considering that around 7% of the population is MTHFR C677T homozygous I wonder how many people out there would benefit from such a product especially if not feeling 100% just by taking antidepressants. It such a game changer but still not well known, at least here in Australia.

Edited by world33, 20 October 2015 - 11:05 AM.

[world33]

Hi guys, I found this interesting article by Dr Ben: Preventing Methylfolate Side Effects at http://mthfr.net/pre...cts/2014/11/26/
In case of adverse reaction to methylfolate the first recommendation is to take electrolytes which contains potassium, as Kingsley pointed out.
I want to try glutathione in both liposomal form and SR to see if it improves my bad memory. NAC, which indirectly increases glutathione, is not recommended for CBS homozygous mutations apparently.
I received my 5-MTHF Extrafolate-S® 15mg 90 CAPS from methylpro and I feel very good. The only issue is that it lasts only a few hours. Considering that methylfolate has an half life of only 3 hours I wish they come out with a Sustained Release version. Another option is to divide the dosage half in the morning and half in the afternoon. I guess I am one of those that react positively to high dosage of methylfolate.

[Kingsley]

Hi guys, I found this interesting article by Dr Ben: Preventing Methylfolate Side Effects at http://mthfr.net/pre...cts/2014/11/26/
In case of adverse reaction to methylfolate the first recommendation is to take electrolytes which contains potassium, as Kingsley pointed out.
I want to try glutathione in both liposomal form and SR to see if it improves my bad memory. NAC, which indirectly increases glutathione, is not recommended for CBS homozygous mutations apparently.
I received my 5-MTHF Extrafolate-S® 15mg 90 CAPS from methylpro and I feel very good. The only issue is that it lasts only a few hours. Considering that methylfolate has an half life of only 3 hours I wish they come out with a Sustained Release version. Another option is to divide the dosage half in the morning and half in the afternoon. I guess I am one of those that react positively to high dosage of methylfolate.

 

I've gotten pretty adept at popping open methylfolate caps and dumping a bit of the powder onto or under my tongue a few times a day to parcel out dosage.  Personally, I'd probably steer clear of a sustained release version even if it existed.  In my experience, sustained release supplements are significantly more expensive and the effectiveness or consistency of the sustained release technology can be questionable.  Popping those caps and munching the powder is so easy, though I could see how some would consider it inconvenient. 

 

I love NAC and consider it to be a permanent part of my stack.  I find that it has a significantly clarifying effect on my cognition, which is in line with its well-researched benefits to NMDA-receptor function, which I suspect is one of my issues.  As I've stated in previous posts, I'm a bit skeptical (though I keep an open mind) of the whole CBS up-regulation theory.  And even assuming that common SNP's do result in CBS upregulation, such upregulation would seemingly be minor and likely far less significant than other sources of CBS upregulation, such as simply increasing methylation (SAM-E allosterically activates CBS).  In theory NAC, as a source of cysteine, could further burden an already-burdened sulfur metabolism and cause problems, though I suspect that molybdenum supplementation would keep any such issues in check. 

 

I'm still a believer in molybdenum and suspect that the sensitivities that some have to sulfites and sulfur-containing foods could be due to a borderline molybdenum deficiency and resulting bottleneck of sulfite due to limited sulfite oxidase enzyme activity.  My own sulfur issues cleared up upon starting molybdenum supplementation. 

[YOLF]

 

 

For an interesting article on the Different Types of Methylfolate and their bioavailability check this page http://methyl-life.c...ylfolate-types/
For me 1 or 2 mg of methyfolate would not do much. I know Deplin comes in 7 and 15 mg and gets pretty good reviews at http://www.drugs.com...ate/deplin.html
I have ordered 15mg Extrafolate-S from methylpro.com and see how it compares to the bulk powder I have sourced from an Alibaba supplier. If it is too strong I can open the capsules and take a lower dosage.

 
What kind of pricing are you getting off AB? Maybe we can do a group buy and get the stuff tested for purity and all that? I imagine we could even form a coop from the group buy and become a supplier of it. Deplin isn't covered by most insurance as I understand it and it's a fraction of the price as a supplement ($10-15/mo for 15mg/day vs $60 for Deplin) and it's the same thing. Personally, I'd rather take it several times a day in energy shots and supplement mixes to keep my levels up all day and not just get a spike once a day. Maybe we can make a time release and enteric formulation too or roll all of them into one capsule that would release a few times during the day.

 

 
I bought 10 Grams bulk powder through Alibaba.com for 138 USD from Shanghai Soyoung Biotechnology Inc. As soon I finish the 10 grams I am interested in sourcing Magnafolate-C from Lianyungang Jinkang Pharmaceutical Technology Co., Ltd as mentioned in this webpage http://methyl-life.c...ylfolate-types/
I could not find them in Alibaba so I might contact them when in need of supply. If interested we can organise a group buy at that time.
Considering that around 7% of the population is MTHFR C677T homozygous I wonder how many people out there would benefit from such a product especially if not feeling 100% just by taking antidepressants. It such a game changer but still not well known, at least here in Australia.

 

Magnafolate C? 

 

Have you tried it before? I'd like to stick to what is known. What makes this stuff better?

[YOLF]

Hi guys, I found this interesting article by Dr Ben: Preventing Methylfolate Side Effects at http://mthfr.net/pre...cts/2014/11/26/
In case of adverse reaction to methylfolate the first recommendation is to take electrolytes which contains potassium, as Kingsley pointed out.
I want to try glutathione in both liposomal form and SR to see if it improves my bad memory. NAC, which indirectly increases glutathione, is not recommended for CBS homozygous mutations apparently.
I received my 5-MTHF Extrafolate-S® 15mg 90 CAPS from methylpro and I feel very good. The only issue is that it lasts only a few hours. Considering that methylfolate has an half life of only 3 hours I wish they come out with a Sustained Release version. Another option is to divide the dosage half in the morning and half in the afternoon. I guess I am one of those that react positively to high dosage of methylfolate.

I much prefer to take it several times in smaller doses, cheaper that way too. Have you tried olive leaf extract or wild blueberry extract to fix memory?

[world33]

Magnafolate C is a crystalline type of methylfolate and is apparently more stable than other forms (it does not loose effectiveness with time). I have read some good reviews online.
Beside eating blueberry on a regular basis I have never tried olive leaf or wild blueberry extract. I might give it a try. Thanks for the suggestion :-)

[world33]

Hi guys, I received Healthy Origins, Setria, L-Glutathione Reduced, 500 mg and wanted to report some very positive feedback. I feel even more clear minded, relaxed and energetic since starting taking it; I also slept better these days. The overall positive effect is more pronounced than that I experienced with NAC in the past. I do not plan to use it long term because I read that it can decrease the endogenous production. I plan to try the liposomal version in a future cycle to compare the effect.
I also plan to try carnitine fumarate to see if it further helps with endurance and energy levels.

Edited by world33, 08 November 2015 - 09:27 PM.