28 replies to this topic

[JPC16]

Hey everyone, I started this new thread because the other ones were starting to get very disorderly and unclear. In this thread I will be posting all my C16-trials.

 

Anyhow, I conducted my first C16-trial yesterday and I just finished collecting and comparing all the data from the tests today.

I already am going to mention as well that this is a quick update since I don't have that much time on my hands right now. I already apologize for the bad English. I will try to put all the data from my tests on here if this is requested. But I can't promise anything yet. I will definately try to do this for trials that have positive results.

 

 

The general conlusion from my first trial would be that C16 does not work.

First of all, I did not feel anything besides the initial little bit of adrenaline from taking a research chemical. To detect any cognitive enhancement I did the following cognitive tests:

• all the tests on Cambridge brain sciences
• Random word test: a long term memory test consisting out of made-up words (2 or 3 syllables long). The words were learned on day one (yesterday) and tested on day 2 (today), so 24 hours passed between remembering and testing. A similar aproch was used in the animal tests. The enhancement was only seen 24 hours later.
• Reading test: reading a text about a subject (only once) that I knew little about. Same testing procedure was used as with the Random word test. 24 hours later I tried to write down as much information from the text as I could remember.

The first test I did was the Random word test which happend 30 minutes after the start of administration. I did all the tests on Cambridge brain sciences after that. And around 2.5 hours after administration I started with the Reading test.

 

After comparing all the data from the tests with the results from the control-tests, which I did a couple of weeks ago, I have to conclude that I didn't observe a difference. I definitely didn't observe a spectacular increase in my long term memory as seen in the animal tests. Also other areas of my cognition remained unaffected (positive or negative).

 

 

But I do have to add some very important information to that. I don't think that C16 doesn't work but I do think that an insufficient amount of C16 entered my bloodstream because of the following reasons:

• the sublingual bioavailability of C16 might be low (sublingual bioavailability is almost always worse than i.p.). So I probably have to increase the dosage.
• I dissolved the C16 only in distilled water and not in combo with ethanol (wich is a stupid mistake on my behalve that I will not be making anymore in future trials). I migh have to use DMSO in future trials.

The reason why not dissolving the C16 in a small amount of ethanol is a stupid mistake, is because ethanol seems to be important for sublingual administration.

I have been comparing some of the chemical properties of C16 with strychnine, and I have found some similarities. Such as the log P (partition coefficient).

Besides that I also found an article (http://onlinelibrary...440710/abstract) wherein you can conclude that strychnine can not be absorbed sublingually without alcohol. The same might be true for C16.

 

The dosage I used in the first trial was 30µg, which is the minimum effective dose needed based on my bodyweight and the data from the rat dosages.

 

So like I said, I wouldn't discard C16 as useless just yet. I will be testing it again in the near future. But I first want to give my body the time to clear out the chemical since C16 has a 'pretty high' log P which means that it 'could' bioaccumulate. So I am not going to redose for at least a couple of days. I also didn't observe any adverse effects.

Edited by JPC16, 26 April 2014 - 04:42 PM.

[VERITAS INCORRUPTUS]

I explained in fairly reasonable detail ROA dynamics, including sublingual (subL, s.l.)

Let alone that the ROA and carrier used was already in a sense a 'compromised' modality as to be in any relation to be nearly as effective as i.p. (the given standard), the dose was marginal.  

I am not condoning recklessness, but if one is going to conduct the lone assay they need to be able to conduct such in a timely manner, using proper dosages and ROA/procedure, etc., etc...

No doubt you give a detailed evaluation, possibly bearing on that which is in some manner overkill, especially as to the overall context.  Notably, you could have skipped this report and just went to a dose that actually has some legitimate merit of a chance to produce some results of note.

Not looking to be antagonistic at all...but think about it...

 

SubL dosing I would think should be at a minimum of 500ug (if I recall from memory that i.p. was advisable at 240ug).  This is over 15x that which you administered herein via a far less than optimal subL carrier.  The most optimal assay would simply be to go sterile and do an  i.p., assess, then perhaps moving to subL, and then others can proceed to assess to warrant further research desired ROA.  I understand reasons why one would not be looking to engage such, but such an initial ROA would likely have been superior for initial assays given such a limited sample.

 

You are notably thorough in many regards and appear to have a legitimate desire to be responsible.  I just think these factors should best be considered for any future research one wishes to conduct (herein and otherwise).

 

Please don't take offense as i am not looking to chastise, but hopefully enlighten within some constructive criticism within what I believe one should consider taking on such a responsibility.  If my take on the matter seems in some manner irrational than my apologies

[Azz19]

Cool, I'll be waiting to hear more.

[Ciambor]

Hey JPC16 . Can you tell us when you able to try PKR Inhibitor once again ? Can you give us a time frame ?

[Majid Mp]

I can't wait to see the result. Thanks to JPC16 for all the efforts and tests.

 

[JPC16]

I was actually already aiming for this weekend. But at this point I can say that the trial will either happen this Saturday or next Monday. I will always try to post my results the day afterwards when I collected and compared the data.

 

The next trial will be the same dose but the one stored at room temperature. But this time I will dissolve it in ethanol.

[Majid Mp]

I think soon you will be able to learn all your dictionary at weekend  You are doing great job. This is a milestone in modernization of human learning methods on the earth. You are trying to prove c16 capability on human body and soon or later pharmaceutical companies will consider to put this drug into procedure of test periods and  produce it as they always try to use the best market opportunities. I have no clue how is your situation about efforts you could provide to maintain what you are doing interestingly but my suggestion is if the your tests satisfied you find some sponsor and use all the energy that you have to bring it into market. There is lots of people out there who are suffering from memory weakness and all kind of related deficiencies. LONGECITY HERO

[YOLF]

EDTA is also used in alot of sublingual preparations. Lions Main might be safer alternative as well, though I'm not sure if the dose would fit into a sublingual preparation.

[Ekscentra]

I look forward to your tests with great interest, JPC. The research so far on C16 excites me beyond any nootropic substance currently in existence. Just keep in mind, and I say this not in the promotion of reckless behavior, there is such a thing as being *too* careful. Still, I trust your judgment, caution, and knowledge greatly. There could be no greater shame than to see the death of one of the most important members of this community. I wish you luck in your testing, and hope for the best results. Impatient as I am, no pressure. Just take it as slowly as you're comfortable with and you should be fine. For the first time in my life, I'm willing to wait months for a simple report. Bravo, JPC, you've managed to capture my attention in a way few ever have. I may seem to be contradicting myself, but I'm impressed with your caution here. I certainly couldn't help but to start at the recommended dosage, but this? This process may take months even from this point to complete, but it'll certainly be worth it if the results from the rat studies hold up in humans.

 

On another note, JPC: assuming your C16 experiments prove a success, would you mind trying various combinations with Semax, Unifiram, and/or perhaps tDCS? Though I'm no scientist, I'd be very interested in the results of such experiments. Thanks for your contributions, you've been invaluable to this community. Shame you're so busy. My impatience grows by the day as I become more and more enamored with this substance. Perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to label C16 as some sort of "holy grail" of nootropics, but alas, I'll await the results first. Though many nootropics in the past have proven quite useful, the reality never lines up with the expectation. C16 is promising to be sure, but I won't make any assumptions or form any final opinions until I've personally had the chance to test it. If the results in this thread prove successful, I have no doubt I'll be participating in the next group buy. Until then, my current favourite PRL-8-53 will have to hold me over. Cheers, and keep up the updates, my friend.

[YOLF]

So how reliable is the supplier? Was any testing done to determine that it actually was C16?

[megatron]

So how reliable is the supplier? Was any testing done to determine that it actually was C16?

 

Well, it was Sigma Aldrich that synthesized it, so I think what he has is legit. 

[Majid Mp]

How could we find out if anything happened to JPC16 ?

 

Much time has passed with no sign of Longecity hero.

 

Abduction by CIA or Alien is possible.

[YOLF]

He unfortunately has a habit of disappearing for weeks at a time. The last thread was abandoned because it went off topic due to his sporadic participation. We just have to wait. Though he can ask me to hide OT posts if he likes or we can give him moderator status over his thread. 

 

Sigma sounds trustworthy.

[Majid Mp]

His behavior could be acceptable if he brings valuable information to the world of neurological science otherwise you must find another hero for us.

Yes. We should be patient until our spirits fulfill it's job with observing and grasping all the possible sciences in it's environment. Not just for this one

Of course science is unlimited and the human's greed to reach the barriers of knowledge is madness but for some people and maybe in future for all  it's the only reason to be not bored and enjoy the common life.

[Majid Mp]

 Great job JPC16. Some people are in love with you and don't like making joke of you. Peace  . So try to come soon

[JPC16]

Sorry for the long wait again, but I am crazily busy since I am in the middle of my exam period. So this will be a quick update.

Anyway, I started the second trial two days ago and finished collecting and comparing the results yesterday. I am only posting this now since I simply didn't have the time yesterday.

 

I am sorry to report that I again did not observe an enhancement in LTM or any other cognitive skill. I again did not observe a positive or a negative effect. The fact that I didn't 'even' notice any side effects might indicate that the dosage used was simply too low. I used the same dosage as before by the way (30µg).

I did dilute the compound in alcohol this time and dosed in the same manner as before (sublingually). The same type of cognitve tests were done. I should also mention that I used the dose that was being kept at room temperature (at least for a month).

 

At this point I am seriously thinking of 'eyeballing' my next dosage because of the following reasons:

• I won't be able to access the microgram scale in the near future (probably also won't even have the time).
   
• I think that I 'dramatically' should increase the dosage. I did a quick research again yesterday and I stumbled upon this: http://www.sciencedi...197018613002854

 

The dose used in the adult rats was about twice the maximum dosage used in the newborn rats (http://www.sciencedi...014579307008952). This is probably the result of an altered permeability of the blood–brain barrier.

 

So in my next trial, I probably will measure 1mg of C16 with a milligram scale, dilute it and dose a quarter of the volume of it. This should give me a dose of around 250µg, which is still way under the lethal dose.

 

I also think that the risk of overdosing is not that high when you know that the lethal dose is about 100 times higer than the minimal effective dose. This gives me a 'pretty big' window to work in or a 'pretty big' margin of error, even if the equipment I use is less sensitive and less precise.

You also have to take the sublingual bioavailability of the compound into account which might be very poor.

 

The next trial will unfortunately happen at least three to four weeks from now. Like I said, I simply don't have the time right now.

I am also pretty stressed right now which influences my immune system and taking a drug on top of that which messes with your viral defense is probably not a good idea.

 

[YOLF]

Have you tried learning something new? What about finding a 3D maze game where you can repeat the boards? One could probably make something like this in minecraft. That's how they showed it in the rats IIRC.

 

What about supplementing with something that increases permeability such a chelation supplement. 

Edited by cryonicsculture, 23 May 2014 - 09:12 PM.

[Majid Mp]

That's wonderful.  I think the dictionary words method of you is a good idea of memory testing. Keep going you'll find the effective dosage. I wish a great success for you in both experimental and academic exams.

[Ciambor]

Hello JPC16 . Can you tell us when you can make next trial ?

[renfr]

Any news? Or did he die?

[Ciambor]

I don't know but him last login was in 18 June . Maybe someone have another contact with him .

[Majid Mp]

He's going to become rich by memorizing everything

[YOLF]

"An internet unto himself!"

[Ciambor]

Any news ?

[Majid Mp]

I told you if anyone reaches that product suddenly disappears from earth. It's mainly based on three reasons:

1. You could be shockingly surprised and die cause of it.

2. You will be die just because of using wrong dose of c16

3. Alien abduction

[Ciambor]

User Googoltarian sent him a sample, and also disappeared in December.He was the last person who had a real address to the JPC16.  It is strange. Alien abduction is really possible

[Ciambor]

Already for a long time we are waiting for him . Maybe someone knows where I can buy c16 pkr inhibitor except Sigma Aldrich ?

[VERITAS INCORRUPTUS]

We have supplied this prior for research intents within a sterile format at 1mg/ml.  Price is expensive though for this supply which is at $795/5mg (5mg/5ml)

We have conducted some research in animal models as well with concomitant use of HCBT-OX at low dose within a theorized conjecture of synergy.  We could certainly make 1G free if anyone want to conduct any research into this area:

http://teamtlr.com/s...=hcbt&results=5

 

[Majid Mp]

oh. So. Another hero. If you found JPC16 find some telecommunication device as soon as possible and report what you saw to the earth. Don't look in the eyes of Aliens. They don't like red heads.

Edited by Majid Mp, 08 October 2014 - 10:52 PM.