8 replies to this topic

[Absent]

I did some googling and haven't found much information other than speculation. That is, speculation that combining the two could be dangerous, and speculation that they are very synergistic. 

 

Since Sulbutiamine upregulates dopamine receptors, increasing their density, whilst stimulating, and Adderall downregulates dopamine receptors, whilst stimulating, what supposed effect would result from alternating the two every other day? Could this result in the tolerance for both of them continually being reset by the other? Strictly speaking, I am not talking about using them simultaneously, but that could be interesting as well. 

 

Anyways, I have a full script of dexedrine and 30g of sulbutiamine and will be experimenting with the two. Does anyone else here have experience with the combo, or using one or the other to counter the tolerance of the other?

[FW900]

Amphetamines typically downregulate most subtypes (e.g. D1,D2,D3,D4,) of dopamine receptors whereas sulbutiamine induces upregulation limited to the D1 receptor. With this in mind, in theory, you would not notice much of a tolerance reduction. I have no experiences with either substance.

[Ultravioletbllc]

Nope it doesnt work like that (based on my own trials anyways)

[Gorthaur]

Try an NMDA antagonist, like DXM or memantine, to reverse amphetamine tolerance. Something like 60 mg of DXM in the evening (if you're taking amphetamine in the morning) might work for regular usage, but you might have to take them on separate days. Magnesium is also a good addition.

[Ultravioletbllc]

I dont like the idea of dxm plus adderall but thats based off my experience and study (it seems like a form of rebound hypertension is liely too occur )

 

I have used Lithium Orotate (the Night before the adderall and then Lithium Or dosed when Im "done") Agmatine(1 gram BiD) , Magnesium L threonate (2000 mgs BiD = 288 mgs of elemental magnesium daily)400 mgs a pop of L-theanine  and Huperazine A as my Personal NMDA antagonist/ augmentation stack

 

But Just make sure not too take the Lithium (if you decide too try this stack) with the Amphetamine as it wastes your time and money and youll be pissed

 

 

This stack helped me more then memantine did with tolerance (of a variety of substances)

and the other thing I found too be particularly useful with amphetamines was High Dose Omega 3s , DLPA++ (or Just pure D-phenylalanine ...Doctors best makes some Pre capped) and citicholine

 

++= DLPA Really Helps when tolerance sets in and or when amphetamine / dopaminergic use is going too occur regularly seems too greatly potentiate the effects

 

 

The other thing that is a surefire method (not too derail the post ..) But eating a tablesppon of Baking soda about ten minutes before you consume D-amphetamine WORKS WONDERS

 

 

 

and all of this is safer then deprenyl + Dopaminergic stimulant

[Absent]

Try an NMDA antagonist, like DXM or memantine, to reverse amphetamine tolerance. Something like 60 mg of DXM in the evening (if you're taking amphetamine in the morning) might work for regular usage, but you might have to take them on separate days. Magnesium is also a good addition.

 

 

I've only heard bad things about DXM. Even the lesser of the bad side effects being the nuking of your IQ. Sort of defeats the purpose of taking anything that enhances cognition.

[Ultravioletbllc]

yea well trust me Believe what youve heard , I honestly and truely believe that a Low dose of ketamine as an nmda antagonist or (WAY) "off label" as it were anti depressant would be much more productive and effective and without all the crazy side effects

 

The issue with dxm and say Tramadol (off the top of my head as another good example) is the drugs work in a non linear fashion and are often descrobed as "dirty" drugs as they do not clearly just affect one receptor subset type but are actualy working on a variety of transmissions within the brain

wich makes them not only as siro pointed out in the case of DXM in apropo for Nootropic purposes but have the potential too cause a variety of other serious problems , and it can be extremely hard too mitigate a side effect that you cant for sure know the root cause of

 

I believe it was Bluelight that actually got me interested on not only dxm but a couple of its "relatives" as well for use in Anti anxiety / depression / adhd

A lot of people swear by the stuff for anxiety attacks and as a cheap acessable nmda antagonist too help them continue theyre 4 year plus amphetamine binge

My experience with dxm was that while it did relieve my anxiety short term whatever else it was  doing possibly exerting snri effects The rebound was somewhat akin too the way I would feel the day after drinking heavily ...... but worse and that halted any further experimentation as I was experiencing some issues that albeit could have been anxiety related , I just couldnt mediate nor did I want too attempt too long term the drug is doing too much to a variety of areas in the brain

 

 

Yes I ramble on I know but this not an area where "learning for yourself" is neccesary

[protoject]

I think citicoline would be a better candidate than sulbutiamine. If you really are considering nmda antagonists, I imagine ketamine would be the superior option- except for the fact that it's illegal in many countries. In that case consider memantine, which is longer acting, but hits more receptors, including some dopamine receptor I think. I don't like memantine these days due to the fact that it hits other receptors than the NMDA one, but I did like it because of how long it lasted and how it seemed to have a cumulative effect and help amphetamine tolerance go down. This is purely anecdotal though, personally I don't remember ever finding much evidence that it would do much for amphetamine tolerance. It does seem to have its own effect on ADHD though, probably due to it's D(2?) stimulating properties.

 

Personally I think citicoline would be the way to go. Again it seems that the way it restores dopamine sensitivity is especially cumulative. That's my personal anecdote and I am sure there are some studies indicating it does upregulate dopamine receptors.

Edited by protoject, 13 May 2014 - 03:43 AM.

[Ultravioletbllc]

I was never fond of alpha gpc and reacted very well too cdp choline as a nootropic and as augmentation too my ADHD rx , and I can say that it definitely potentiated the effect of amps for me