14 replies to this topic

[stan08]

Anyone with experience using this? I'm thinking about giving it a try to help with my rapid mood swings and depression. I read that it's been used to help with those that are bipolar (my grandmother used to take it).

[Jeoshua]

Your grandmother (likely) used to take Lithium Chloride, not Orotate. The Orotate form is somewhat better absorbed, and comes in far lower doses. Lithium at an elemental dosage that's considered therapeutic for Bipolar Disorder is actually pretty high, would take almost a whole bottle of Lithium Orotate 5mg pills to equal, and would almost certainly come with a load of negative side effects. If your mood swings are crazy enough, it might be worth it to go to a doctor instead of trying to find supplements for it.

[stan08]

Yeah, I meant she used to take lithium. I don't know what form she took. I did see a doctor about it a year ago but he just put me on zoloft. I did take that for about 6 months but all it did was make me tired and angry all the time. Explained this to him but he insisted I just stay on zoloft.

[stan08]

Also, I don't think my mood swings are super bad. They're bad enough that I'm tired of blowing up at those I care about for stupid teasons and then quickly feeling bad about it. Just want something safe but effective for helping even out my mood.

[Jeoshua]

Well Lithium Orotate 5mg is extremely safe. Effective? I'm not so sure. I take it along with melatonin to help me sleep, but I've never noticed it having a very strong anxiolytic property.

[xks201]

Good stuff. My research tells me it is about the most effective compound over the counter for breaking down metal crosslinking in the brain. In my case I was exposed to large amounts of aluminum. Supposedly several months of daily administration is good at chelating conjoined metals, especially out of the brain.  Definitely a must take supplement IMO. 

[Mr.No]

If you are pregnant...  http://ajp.psychiatr...ticleID=1866346

[Jeoshua]

I doubt "Stan" is pregnant, unless it's a really misleading name. Comeon, you have people named Stan(islaw) in Serbia, right?

[datrat]

Also, I don't think my mood swings are super bad. They're bad enough that I'm tired of blowing up at those I care about for stupid teasons and then quickly feeling bad about it. Just want something safe but effective for helping even out my mood.

 

Although I believe the consensus is that too little serotonin tends to make one angry and irritable, I have found for myself that when on snri's and ssri's, which were apparently too serotonergic for me - many miserable side-effects, I was always irritable and prone to angry outbursts to family members and even my dogs.   Moving to a tricyclic AD has taken all this away for me. It could be that you're having a similar experience to mine, if you're still on Zoloft.
 

[Jeoshua]

Okay, guys. I don't believe we have to go through this again.

Who voted down my post (first response), and why?

I don't care if you disagree with me, but I do care that you explain yourself. Nobody on this thread has thus far disagreed with any of the points I made. If you have something to say, say it. Don't just vote me down.

Seriously, is it personal?

[stan08]

Well Lithium Orotate 5mg is extremely safe. Effective? I'm not so sure. I take it along with melatonin to help me sleep, but I've never noticed it having a very strong anxiolytic property.

 

I keep hearing differing opinions. Some say it's safe while other's say it's not.  That's part of what I'm trying to get resolved.

If you are pregnant...  http://ajp.psychiatr...ticleID=1866346

 

Definitely not pregnant as I lack the proper anatomy. 

[stan08]

 

Also, I don't think my mood swings are super bad. They're bad enough that I'm tired of blowing up at those I care about for stupid teasons and then quickly feeling bad about it. Just want something safe but effective for helping even out my mood.

 

Although I believe the consensus is that too little serotonin tends to make one angry and irritable, I have found for myself that when on snri's and ssri's, which were apparently too serotonergic for me - many miserable side-effects, I was always irritable and prone to angry outbursts to family members and even my dogs.   Moving to a tricyclic AD has taken all this away for me. It could be that you're having a similar experience to mine, if you're still on Zoloft.
 

 

Yeah, the reaction definitely sounds very similar.  When I was taking zoloft (or anything else that increases serotonin too much...like bacopa) it made me really tired all the time and angry/irritable (more moody than usual). 

Okay, guys. I don't believe we have to go through this again.

Who voted down my post (first response), and why?

I don't care if you disagree with me, but I do care that you explain yourself. Nobody on this thread has thus far disagreed with any of the points I made. If you have something to say, say it. Don't just vote me down.

Seriously, is it personal?

 

It must be personal because I can't see why anyone would vote down either of those posts.

[Jeoshua]

Here is a link to a doctor's urgings for caution:

https://www.aacp.com...tters_Balon.pdf

The key takeaways from this are:

There haven't been any studies on Lithium Orotate for BPD. That doesn't mean it's ineffective, that means there aren't any studies that you can prove its effectiveness on. However, as just a different carrier for Lithium, and a very biocompatible one, at that, it can be expected to have similar effects to other forms of Lithium, just at different dosages, with possible different side effects.

The renal clearance for LO is lower than other forms of Lithium. That means more of it stays inside your body, for longer time periods. The half-life on this stuff is like 24 hours, which is extremely long. Taking it every day, it will build up in your body, even at low doses.

There is one documented overdose of Lithium Orotate, when a lady took 18 pills of a 3.83mg elemental dose, for a total dosage of 69mg, far below fatal. She didn't die, and she only experienced uncomfortable side effects. She just took too many, started feeling a bit weird, threw up (likely due to the amount of filler in the pills, or just fear), and called 911 on herself. She was in no risk of dying, and her Lithium levels weren't even close to a level considered dangerous.

Here's the full text for the overdose: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18072162

Edited by Jeoshua, 07 May 2014 - 05:10 PM.

[Mr.No]

Here is a link to a doctor's urgings for caution:

https://www.aacp.com...tters_Balon.pdf

The key takeaways from this are:

There haven't been any studies on Lithium Orotate for BPD. That doesn't mean it's ineffective, that means there aren't any studies that you can prove its effectiveness on. However, as just a different carrier for Lithium, and a very biocompatible one, at that, it can be expected to have similar effects to other forms of Lithium, just at different dosages, with possible different side effects.

The renal clearance for LO is lower than other forms of Lithium. That means more of it stays inside your body, for longer time periods. The half-life on this stuff is like 24 hours, which is extremely long. Taking it every day, it will build up in your body, even at low doses.

There is one documented overdose of Lithium Orotate, when a lady took 18 pills of a 3.83mg elemental dose, for a total dosage of 69mg, far below fatal. She didn't die, and she only experienced uncomfortable side effects. She just took too many, started feeling a bit weird, threw up (likely due to the amount of filler in the pills, or just fear), and called 911 on herself. She was in no risk of dying, and her Lithium levels weren't even close to a level considered dangerous.

Here's the full text for the overdose: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18072162

 

Lithium orotate is three time more bioavailable than carbonate form (ie. 100mg of orotate form equals 300mg of carbonate in brain tissue) so be careful. Maybe half of tablet is enough (75mg orotate or 2,5mg of elementary lithium).

 

Second, all that story about serotonin importance in mood disorders is fake. Read  The Emperor's New Drugs - Exploding the Antidepressant Myth  by Irving Kirsch
 

Edited by Slobodan Fuletic, 08 May 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[xks201]

I agree. The low serotonin hypothesis of depression has made more money and ruined more people's lives than most things I can think of.