448 replies to this topic

[mkp6019]

Zevahc,

 

What kind of daily/weekly dose do you plan on using? The CFU is low compared to other probiotic strains. I was wondering if a tablet a day would be an effective dose. I emailed the company regarding their Gastrus product and they responded it will be available in the UK and Sweden but did not mention U.S. 

[zevahc]

It cost $60 USD for two 18ct boxes including shipping . It took farmacia loretto about 10 days to process and shipping was about a week .

I started with two yesterday and intend on one a day . I agree the CFU is low , compared to other Reuteri supplements . I'd like to use this to make some kefir , but they are chewables that contain vitamin C . Would that cause any issues ?

[zevahc]

BioGaia responded to me recently with this via Facebook :


"Dear Zevahc,
I assume that you are inquiring about Gastrus in the US. Our distribution partner, Everidis, is in the process of launching the product in the US. I believe they will start selling the product sometime beginning next year. For more details about the launch and how to buy the product please contact Chris Becker at Everidis, cbecker@everidis.com

Best regards
David, BioGaia, Sweden "

[Heisok]

Thank you for the pricing information. For now I will wait for the U.S. distributer. 

 

I would think that a fermentation into a yogurt or kefir would work with no problems as long as the bacteria are viable. I once fermented a Lactobacillus Fermentum ME-3 formula which had Ubiquinol, Thiamin, B6, B12, NAC and Pantethine. It made a fine yogurt, but I liked my other strains better. I tried the strain because it is touted as increasing Glutathione. The doubt I will always have with multi-strain home ferments is to which strain multiplies more agressively given the process which I use. My laymans understanding is that not all strains double in the same amount of time, or at the same ideal temperature. The uncertainties are also why I use fresh "starter" everytime instead of some of my previous batch as some others do.

[Guardian4981]

How do we know other strains of Reuteri do not offer similar benefits?

[Hermes]

Thank you for the pricing information. For now I will wait for the U.S. distributer. 

 

I would think that a fermentation into a yogurt or kefir would work with no problems as long as the bacteria are viable. I once fermented a Lactobacillus Fermentum ME-3 formula which had Ubiquinol, Thiamin, B6, B12, NAC and Pantethine. It made a fine yogurt, but I liked my other strains better. I tried the strain because it is touted as increasing Glutathione. The doubt I will always have with multi-strain home ferments is to which strain multiplies more agressively given the process which I use. My laymans understanding is that not all strains double in the same amount of time, or at the same ideal temperature. The uncertainties are also why I use fresh "starter" everytime instead of some of my previous batch as some others do.

 

According to this, the addition of S. thermophilus and L. delbrueckii increases the growth of L. reuteri DSM17938 in milk by roughly three times, versus the growth of L. reuteri DSM17938 in milk by itself (go to page 21):

http://stud.epsilon....on_m_130828.pdf

 

So adding a bit of yogurt into the warm milk with the crushed Gastrus pills would probably help yield more of what we want, rather than less.

[Heisok]

Excellent research Hermes, Thanks.

[sdxl]

 

According to this, the addition of S. thermophilus and L. delbrueckii increases the growth of L. reuteri DSM17938 in milk by roughly three times, versus the growth of L. reuteri DSM17938 in milk by itself (go to page 21):

http://stud.epsilon....on_m_130828.pdf

 

So adding a bit of yogurt into the warm milk with the crushed Gastrus pills would probably help yield more of what we want, rather than less.

 

 

 

That source says something different.

 

The viable count of L. reuteri was also higher in the former case with 6.5x10⁷ CFU/ml compared with 1.2x10⁷ CFU/ml for the fermentation in pure culture.

 

That is 5.4 times as much, not roughly three times.

[docmaas]

Now available on amazon from US distributor

 

http://www.amazon.co...eywords=gastrus

[Hermes]

 

 

According to this, the addition of S. thermophilus and L. delbrueckii increases the growth of L. reuteri DSM17938 in milk by roughly three times, versus the growth of L. reuteri DSM17938 in milk by itself (go to page 21):

http://stud.epsilon....on_m_130828.pdf

 

So adding a bit of yogurt into the warm milk with the crushed Gastrus pills would probably help yield more of what we want, rather than less.

 

 

 

That source says something different.

 

The viable count of L. reuteri was also higher in the former case with 6.5x10⁷ CFU/ml compared with 1.2x10⁷ CFU/ml for the fermentation in pure culture.

 

That is 5.4 times as much, not roughly three times.

 

 

 

 

 

How embarrassing! My dyslexic brain registered 2.2x10⁷ somehow instead of 1.2x10⁷. To think that at one time I was a teenaged math wiz . . .

[chemicalambrosia]

Now available on amazon from US distributor

 

http://www.amazon.co...eywords=gastrus

 

Almost $1 per tablet. If I was a mouse and knew I could expect miraculous results...

Oh well, anyone who takes this please report back whether you get any results or not please.

[Heisok]

Thanks, I ordered some. I will take the mouse size doses and try incubation using some of the tips from the study Hermes linked to. Unfortunately, aside from judging the success of incubation, my Yogurt will not likely give any results which could help anybody. That would require labwork, and a strict controlled dosing.

[Heisok]

Something about the study about enhancing the L. Reuteri bothered me, so I double checked. 

 

" The specific strains present in the yoghurt culture used in this study (Arla mild, 3%) were not characterized. However, since traditional yoghurt culture usually contains the synergistic bacteria pair S. thermophilus and L. delbrueckii, the yoghurt was assumed to contain these species."

 

I could not find a listing for the Arla Yogurt. There could be several strains more than the 2 standard Yogurt strains.  My plan is to use 3 of the Gastrus for my first batch with1 gallon of milk. I have not decided what to do about which yogurt to use as a support culture..  I will take some doses of the Gastrus alone for a few days to see if I react negatively in any way. Then I will move on to the Yogurt.

[fntms]

I have also received my Gastrus from the Italian pharmacy and started taking it yesterday. They recommend just 1 tab per day (some gastrointestinal disorder issues if more is taken) so I'm not sure if the yogurt making option is to ingest more or to reduce cost. I will try making the yogurt in a few days with my usual method (boil milk, let cool down, put the culture and some yogurt, put the milk with culture in oven at low temp for a good idea).

[Heisok]

I have also received my Gastrus from the Italian pharmacy and started taking it yesterday. They recommend just 1 tab per day (some gastrointestinal disorder issues if more is taken) so I'm not sure if the yogurt making option is to ingest more or to reduce cost. I will try making the yogurt in a few days with my usual method (boil milk, let cool down, put the culture and some yogurt, put the milk with culture in oven at low temp for a good idea).

 

It has Isomalt which is a sugar alcohol. That can cause gastric distress is some. Minimizing that is reason enough to make the yogurt.

 

I make the yogurt for 2 reasons. I want the highest amount of probiotics as possible, and I can use the calories. My 24 hour ferments that I strain about 60% of the volume of fluid off should be low lactose, and also lower galactose. I do not get any spike in blood sugar readings after eating it. I will add that it tastes very good.

[fntms]

I made the yogurt with 2 caps of Gastrus in 1l of milk. I also added other reuteri from Nature's Way and some kefir. It took 20h to take and needed some heat throughout. Tastes ok, not great. Seems to work fine (digestion).

[Heisok]

fntms,

 

Thanks for the information. Mine was a little behind yours. I used 6 quarts (Non scientist obviously) I crushed, and then dissolved 3 Gastrus in a little water. For the co-fermentation bacteria, I used a Natren product called Healthy Trinity with Lactobacillus acidophilus, NAS 5 billion cfu
Bifidobacterium bifidum, Malyoth 20 billion cfu and Lactobacillus (delbrueckii) bulgaricus, LB-51 5 billion cfu per capsule I used 2 capsules worth of the oil squeezed into warm milk. I think that I should have used 1.

 

I am pretty confident that some L. Reuteri multiplied well as the texture of the yogurt is different from the texture of the yogurt I made with the Healthy Trinity once before. It tastes good, but is a little gooey almost like a boiled down syrup. It did set up nicely though. Not a lot of whey, mostly solids.

 

 

[nickdino]

I have also received my Gastrus from the Italian pharmacy and started taking it yesterday. They recommend just 1 tab per day (some gastrointestinal disorder issues if more is taken) so I'm not sure if the yogurt making option is to ingest more or to reduce cost. I will try making the yogurt in a few days with my usual method (boil milk, let cool down, put the culture and some yogurt, put the milk with culture in oven at low temp for a good idea).

Why do you put the Milk with culture in a oven at a low temp?

[fntms]

This is to enable the colonization, it doesn't work at room temperature (20c max now).

[Heisok]

This is likely too much information for this thread, and not meant to be more than a description of my process. I heat the milk in double boilers until they reach 180 degrees Fahrenheit for around 20 minutes. I then cool the milk to around 105 degrees Fahrenheit. I mix some of the probiotics with a cup of the warm milk, before mixing it with the rest of the milk. I then place it in my oven which has been warmed to about 105 degrees using the oven lights only.  I control the temperature by varying the amount which I prop the door open. I use 5 small magnets which I attach somewhere between 1 and 5 stacked depending on how the temperature is maintaining at around 105 degrees. After 24 hours, I strain the yogurt until reduced about 50% using large coffee filters layered in pasta strainers. I then scoop the reduced yogurt into jars for refrigeration. I usually make about 8 days worth.

 

I will try to post a few photos. The shot with a lot of liquid is the single strain B. Infantis, and the shot where you can see where I scooped out a little is the one which included the L. Reuteri in addition to other bacterium.

 

http://imageevent.co...s=0&y=1&z=2&l=0

[PerfectSeek]

What makes me skeptical is that in all of the studies a simple probiotic yogurt achieved the same effects.  Surely if yogurt caused massive aesthetic improvements and testosterone boosting in humans we would notice the effects? 

Edited by PerfectSeek, 24 January 2016 - 12:25 PM.

[Argos]

Bought two packs of this from Italy. This stuff ain't cheap!! We need to find a way to breed this stuff and make an endless supply.

Edited by Argos, 24 January 2016 - 08:10 PM.

[sdxl]

What makes me skeptical is that in all of the studies a simple probiotic yogurt achieved the same effects.  Surely if yogurt caused massive aesthetic improvements and testosterone boosting in humans we would notice the effects? 

 

The study with the yogurt isn't specific on which brand they used. It says "a commercially available vanilla-flavored probiotic yogurt". And this is only for its beautifying effects as far as I can see. Let's assume they used Activia. Danone had a "beauty yogurt" called Essensis that had the same strain as their Activia and some added nutrients. Could be Danone was onto something.
 

[sdxl]

Bought two packs of this from Italy. This stuff ain't cheap!! We need to find a way to breed this stuff and make an endless supply.

 

Ideally one would separate the two strains from the Gastrus tablets, which is not that easy as they are the same species. Make a pure culture of ATCC PTA 6475 and grow the bacteria in MRS broth or any other suitable medium.
 

[Argos]

Bought two packs of this from Italy. This stuff ain't cheap!! We need to find a way to breed this stuff and make an endless supply.

Ideally one would separate the two strains from the Gastrus tablets, which is not that easy as they are the same species. Make a pure culture of ATCC PTA 6475 and grow the bacteria in MRS broth or any other suitable medium.

Basically, crush up the chewable tablets and add to the broth?

[sdxl]

 

 

Bought two packs of this from Italy. This stuff ain't cheap!! We need to find a way to breed this stuff and make an endless supply.

Ideally one would separate the two strains from the Gastrus tablets, which is not that easy as they are the same species. Make a pure culture of ATCC PTA 6475 and grow the bacteria in MRS broth or any other suitable medium.

Basically, crush up the chewable tablets and add to the broth?

 

 

You still have a mixed culture that way. One strain might overgrow the other. To separate them you need to grow them on agar. Select colonies. Differentiate the two strains somehow. Use a culture with DSM 17938 as reference, the strain you don't want. Select the other strain and grow it.

[zevahc]

I was wondering if 17938 somehow dulls the effects of 6475 . While this has been the best probiotic I've ever taken , there hasn't been a remarkable decrease in inflammation . My beard is definitely darker and people keep mentioning that " I'm growing it out " but honestly it's the same length it's been for months . I take medications that cause me GI upset and that's pretty much gone too . For reference I took BioGaia protectis in the past and that didn't have as good an effect as the gastrus

[Argos]

Bought two packs of this from Italy. This stuff ain't cheap!! We need to find a way to breed this stuff and make an endless supply.

Ideally one would separate the two strains from the Gastrus tablets, which is not that easy as they are the same species. Make a pure culture of ATCC PTA 6475 and grow the bacteria in MRS broth or any other suitable medium.

Basically, crush up the chewable tablets and add to the broth?

You still have a mixed culture that way. One strain might overgrow the other. To separate them you need to grow them on agar. Select colonies. Differentiate the two strains somehow. Use a culture with DSM 17938 as reference, the strain you don't want. Select the other strain and grow it.

Great tips, thank you. I'll work on getting a reference strain as you suggested. In the meantime, I'm just going to chuck it in and look for a good amount of both types. Kind of makes me wonder why they put both strains in there to begin with.

[sdxl]

I was wondering if 17938 somehow dulls the effects of 6475 . While this has been the best probiotic I've ever taken , there hasn't been a remarkable decrease in inflammation . My beard is definitely darker and people keep mentioning that " I'm growing it out " but honestly it's the same length it's been for months . I take medications that cause me GI upset and that's pretty much gone too . For reference I took BioGaia protectis in the past and that didn't have as good an effect as the gastrus

 

From looking at an in vitro study, you may have a point on the inflammation. FYI DSM 17938 is derived from ATCC 55730.

[PerfectSeek]

I was wondering if 17938 somehow dulls the effects of 6475 . While this has been the best probiotic I've ever taken , there hasn't been a remarkable decrease in inflammation . My beard is definitely darker and people keep mentioning that " I'm growing it out " but honestly it's the same length it's been for months . I take medications that cause me GI upset and that's pretty much gone too . For reference I took BioGaia protectis in the past and that didn't have as good an effect as the gastrus

 

17938 stimulates the immune system where 6475 acts as an antiinflammatory, so it's theoretically possible they cancel each other out to some extent. 

 

See here: http://ajpgi.physiol...ent/299/5/G1087