448 replies to this topic

[fntms]

I have made 2l of yogurt with 3 Gastrus tabs plus one gr8dophilus from Jarrow, this time it worked better with less need for heating post inoculation, I think it's because I let the milk boil a while longer. Tastes alright, not as nice as regular yogurt, more 'tangy' perhaps...

[Heisok]

fntms, thanks for the information. I consumed my "yogurt" for around 9 days. It might sound crazy,  but  I think I might have felt an effect which might be related to Oxytocin, more empathy. I ate about 8 ounces of the yogurt spread out daily, and have no guess as to the dose of bacteria.

 

I am giving it a rest, and will make another batch in the next few weeks. I will pay more attention to how I feel.

Edited by heisoktoday, 09 February 2016 - 10:03 PM.

[pro-v]

I've been taking 1 a day for about 3 weeks now and can subjectively say that it has been beneficial. I haven't been sick, which is rare for this time of year, zero GI issues and my libido has been higher than normal. I haven't taken any other sups during this time period other than 1 dose of aniracetam yesterday.

[fntms]

I did 2l yogurt with 2 Gastrus + 1 gr8dophilus... The key is to boil the milk well (a few minutes) I think...

[hotbit]

US patent system is very ... well, I don't like it. Seeking information on Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA-6475 I have come upon  this US patent application:

http://patft.uspto.g...RS=PN/7,344,867

 

Do they expect us to pay patent holders for eating Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA-6475 yoghurt, or do they expect babies to pay them for drinking mother's milk (milk that includes the strain naturally?) Is US patent very strange (ie BULLY) or do I miss something?
 

 

 

[BatmanNC]

I would like to find a source / product containing the Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA-6475 that does not contain Isomalt or xylitol. Any ideas? I have only found one product containing the L. reuteri 6475. That product is Biogaia Gastrus and it contains at least one sugar substitute that may or may not be friendly to the gut microbiota. It is available on Amazon now. Has anyone used this product? Thank you.

[lemon_]

wut brand pls link iherb ty 

[BatmanNC]

lemon_ It's in the U.S. It's "Biogaia Gastrus". Here: http://www.amazon.co...ailpage_o00_s00

[Heisok]

BatmanNC, I will say that it appears that some have added Gastrus to their Yogurt making strains. I have, and it made a good yogurt with an interesting consistency. I plan to try a second batch soon. This would surely limit the sugar alcohol content.

 

Lemon, I noticed that you are in the EU. The first source was an Italian company I believe. The quote to an earlier post in this thread follows.

 

Once you are on the site, search for "Gastrus"

 

http://farmacialoreto.it/

 

Italian pharmacy offering Biogaia Gastrus with worldwide shipping option.

 

Edited by heisoktoday, 16 March 2016 - 10:47 PM.

[aconita]

About making your own culture of lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA-6475 some if not all the methods reported here leads my eyebrows to rise a bit.

 

At least in theory yogurt can be made with any lactobacillus strain, some is a bit easier, some a bit trickier, some leads to a kind of yogurt you are used to (as far as taste and texture are concerned), some don't at all.

 

If one's aim is to reproduce an enjoyable tasty yogurt I am afraid sticking to proven strains would be a better choice.

 

Take yakult as an example, it is made with lactibacillus casei Shirota, anyone whom ever tried it knows it doesn't resemble yogurt at all both for texture and taste, in order to get some chances to be sold sugar and flavors are added to it but still it has nothing resembling yogurt.

 

It is perfectly possible to make your own casei Shirota culture in milk (a yogurt by definition) if you wish so but taste and texture would not resemble the yogurt you are accustomed to and probably you are not going to like it that much either.

 

The added sugar and flavors are not an issue since they will quickly disappear from your culture because of multiple dilutions.

 

This teaches us that additives are not of concern but if you aim for yogurt taste and texture you are better to leave alone "fancy strains".

 

Most if not all lactobacillis are temperature sensitive, some more so than others but as a rule of thumb above 38 degree they all die, be well aware of this fact when attempting to grow cultures.

 

Some will grow reasonably well at low temperatures (like the strains in kefir), some don't and require temperatures above 30 degrees leaving little error's margin.

 

Bacteria are tribes, some don't like others at all, some are a bit more social, in a way or another they all compete for survival but in some case they find a good peace agreement with other tribes and they go well along with each other (kefir, for example).

 

It seems our lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA-6475 is not very competitive and tends to be overwhelmed by any other tribe on the territory. if that is true colonizing kefir with it is not going to work and unless you have a laboratory to check your culture you are never going to know if it has been already wiped out long ago.

 

Not a smart choice in my view.

 

Adding it to yogurts likely leads to the same outcome, other tribes already there and by far more competitive will wipe it out with no mercy in no time.

 

The only reliable way to culture it is to isolate it and to keep it that way, with time and dedication it would be possible to understand how to grow it efficiently, trial and error are likely to be unavoidable.

 

About to eventually colonize your own guts with it the same issue as above will apply, it is probably impossible since competition is too strong, as far as I know after the first very few weeks of life it is impossible to change the microbioma composition of the intestine, it is possible to change the members numbers of the tribes but not the tribes themselves, leave alone introducing a weak newcomer...

 

Feeding a pill or too to a newborn might be a smart choice since it would be likely for it to successfully colonize the intestine, especially if the infant is not breast fed, because it is not a competitive strain it is not ensured members number would be enough to make a difference but at at least the tribe would be on the territory, a tribe of loosers but better than nothing.

 

Forget prebiotics in order to help the tribe, other more competitive tribes will make most out of it.

 

Biogaia Gastrus is probably made on purpose with an added strain in order to make culturing ATCC PTA-6475 unsuccessful to us smart asses willing to try, those guys commercializing bacteria are usually smarter than we hope for. 

 

One last thing: this rats studies about rising testosterone usually don't apply to humans at all since in rats and mices androgens mechanisms are very different from humans, by far.

 

Before going mad about it and/or spending loads of money I suggest to wait for human clinical evidence, just in case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hotbit]

I have ordered gastrus from http://farmacialoreto.it/
Unfortunately, Fedex lost the package and I'm still waiting for them to resend the order. If something goes wrong - their customer service if far from being great.

I have bought a yoghurt maker and read about the process. It seems most often used temperature is 42C (for yoghurt; lower ~25C for kefir or soured milk, but these are very different products to yoghurt). Cultures die in temp. over 55C. Maybe it is different for various strains, further research is needed.

 

I've seen in some papers they were culturing reuteri strains in 37C and 40C. No idea what is ideal temperature for  this strain. Open question.

 

As Aconita, I am also worried that ATCC PTA-6475  could be out competed by other strains, on the other hand some strains live in symbiosis  and support each other. No definite answer here either.

 

Being able to check CFU - number of bacteria of each strain - in own 'yoghurt' would be great, anybody has an idea where and what cost of such service?

[aconita]

Considering pasteurization runs at 60 degree and kills all bacteria (not only lactobacillus) to state that cultures dies above 55 is certainly true but a bit stretchy if it implies that up to 55 bacterias are doing fine, in facts it is not the case at all.

 

Not all strains have the same temperature sensitivity, of course, but above 38 yogurts bacteria (the kind of bacteria usually found in yogurts) and lactobacillus in general are not going to be very happy as a rule of thumb.

 

Usually for yogurt home production 36-38 is the goal, above that it gets tricky and risky, not worth since most of those yogurt making machines are very far from being precise (personal experience).

 

A couple degree more or less are not going to impact time production by much but means the difference between life and death for the culture.

 

Kefir ideal temperature is 18 (not 20-25 as stated by wikipedia with no reference), above 28 some of the strains start to die off.

 

Since bacteria are perfectly happy at low temperatures (frozen) but die at high temperatures it is common sense to keep clear from high ends for safety reasons.

 

As the temperature drops from ideal the culture slows down, no harm, just slowing the process.

 

Often higher end temperature is close to maximum production.

 

In industrial settings, where productivity is paramount, cultures are kept in very controlled conditions which may be quite close to the limit but for the amateur is not wise since the smallest mistake will kill all the culture, better to play safe and wait a few hours longer. 

 

 

 

 

[Heisok]

Thank you very much for the information. There is of course doubt about which strains multiply more aggressively. Contrary to what appears to be the experience of some, I have enjoyed every batch of yogurt which I have made. Whenever I try different strains there is a different taste, and/or consistency. For the record, I am not trying to get out of buying Gastrus, just extending the dose in a way that I also get to supplement my diet. To be honest, without the yogurt, there would be no purchase for me.

 

I will bring my ferments down to around 38 C. I am able to moderate my oven within about +- 2 C, so should have some good leeway. I do 24 hour "yogurt" even though it is not technically yogurt by industry definition if I understand correctly, which I can go longer or shorter if needed.

 

The earlier pdf file convinced me that adding other bacteria might help  L Reuteri multiply more aggressively. I have a guess.  Some constituent of the yogurt which is the bi-product of the other bacteria multiplying could feed the L.Reuteri. Could it be Galactose which if I understand correctly is a result of the Lactose being consumed?

[DbCooper]

Im just taking the actual supplement empty stomach and Im liking it. It appears to be meditated through FOXN1. 

 

It seems to be inhibiting cachexia in mice (published in 2016) although Ive seen the same results for pigs and turkeys as well. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26933816

[Heisok]

Im just taking the actual supplement empty stomach and Im liking it. It appears to be meditated through FOXN1. 

 

It seems to be inhibiting cachexia in mice (published in 2016) although Ive seen the same results for pigs and turkeys as well. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26933816

 

Thanks, They also seem to indicate a benefit for muscle wasting related to normal aging independent from any cancer effects.

[Sith]

Where does one buy this magical supplement from? 

Where does one buy this elusive supplement from? 

[hotbit]

Where does one buy this magical supplement from? 

Where does one buy this elusive supplement from? 

 

Sith, I assume you are in the UK. If you will read the whole thread, some people bought this from an italian online shop mentioned above. I did order it, too, but Fedex lost the package. It is over a month and... nothing...  both Fedex and this italian shop have worst customer services possible. 

 

It seems Biogaia UK is going to sell it through their website soon, though.

[Sith]

 

Where does one buy this magical supplement from? 

Where does one buy this elusive supplement from? 

 

Sith, I assume you are in the UK. If you will read the whole thread, some people bought this from an italian online shop mentioned above. I did order it, too, but Fedex lost the package. It is over a month and... nothing...  both Fedex and this italian shop have worst customer services possible. 

 

It seems Biogaia UK is going to sell it through their website soon, though.

 

 

Yes I am indeed in the UK. I will surely take a read through again. I did visit the Italian website company and the whole shipping experiences and customer service experiences like you've mentioned have certainly put me off.

 

Will just have to wait for Biogaia to be our savour! 

 

Thanks! 

[joelcairo]

I recently bought Swanson Vitamins' in-house Epic Pro probiotic, which contains 25 strains including 1 billion lactobacillus reuteri. It's currently on 2 for 1, so the price is competitive with any other good probiotic supplement.

[hotbit]

I recently bought Swanson Vitamins' in-house Epic Pro probiotic, which contains 25 strains including 1 billion lactobacillus reuteri. It's currently on 2 for 1, so the price is competitive with any other good probiotic supplement.

 

I wonder what strain of L. reuteri they offer. I found on their website in another product description they call it Lactobacillus reuteri HA-188  /Primadophillus  but I can't find such a strain in scientific literature (via google scholar). The other one they sell is reuteri RC-14 (fem-dophilus). These strains have benefits, but they are different to l. reuteri 6475 discussed in this thread... 
 

 

[Sith]

I recently bought Swanson Vitamins' in-house Epic Pro probiotic, which contains 25 strains including 1 billion lactobacillus reuteri. It's currently on 2 for 1, so the price is competitive with any other good probiotic supplement.

 

Brilliant, will take a look at that thanks! 

[sdxl]

You can't extrapolate the effects from one strain of L. reuteri to another. The effects are strain specific, not species specific.

I found a Swedish website that sells Gastrus. Price is about 30% lower than the Italian version per tablet. Which was expected, because BioGaia's other probiotic ProTectis is also cheaper in Sweden. Not many Swedish online stores ship abroad, so I have to wait until Gastrus is more widely available. Till then I'll have to experiment with the Italian version.

Edited by sdxl, 30 March 2016 - 10:51 AM.

[docmaas]

BioGaia and Reuteri news article:

 

http://qz.com/637744...enous-peoples/ 

[lemon_]

HWO BUY UK 

[DbCooper]

Jesus, the shits on Amazon, you know the world largest retailer and where 95% of people look first?

[sdxl]

Looks like a clinical trial on osteopenia is done with this strain. The daily dose is 100 times as high as found in one Gastrus tablet.

[vader]

Probiotics always scare me. Generally, most probiotics introduce temporary bacteria populations into the gut, but i always fear of permanent colonization by some species and given that some generally friendly bacteria can turn into pathogens given enough number, then i'm quite weary of ingesting probiotics. Then again maybe this would cure my IBS.

[Keizo]

I'm already taking another strain but I'm putting some of this in my basket right now. Mostly interested in the testosterone boost, but hey, that probably won't be noticeable. 

 

189 SEK for 30 tablets if you live in Sweden (apotea) Just a heads up

[Izan]

I've tried this for 18 days straight (it came from an Italian pharmacy). It was very nice and I'll def, order some more.

[jonnyD]

I've tried this for 18 days straight (it came from an Italian pharmacy). It was very nice and I'll def, order some more.

 

Please tell us more. What effects did you get? How much did you take?