448 replies to this topic

[sub7]

I haven't followed this thread in ages. Is the A type available in stores or online somewhere? We naturally dont need any more pro inflammatory substances.

 

I am only reporting my own n=1 observations

 

For more specific information on what is available where from Biogaia, please visit their site, as well as your local AMAZON

https://www.biogaia....ry/switzerland/

[TerryFirmer]

I haven't followed this thread in ages. Is the A type available in stores or online somewhere? We naturally dont need any more pro inflammatory substances.

 

Search for BioGaia Protectis tablets.
 

[sub7]

Search for BioGaia Protectis tablets.
 

 

Hi Terry, 

 

I would love to hear your comments about my little experiment reported in Post 269 -even if all you can add is an educated speculation (which is natural considering the lack of concrete data we got)

 

Thanks in advance

[OP2040]

I recently discovered L. Reuteri after getting my microbiome sequenced from uBiome, including oral.  I'm very happy with my gut bacteria, but my oral is a mess of periodontal pathogens.  So I bought a chewable with just a generic strain of reuteri listed on it.  I was happy to even find that.  And then reading this thread I started to question it.  As I recall, I read a bunch of studies and I don't think all of them were based on just one specific strain.  I'm pretty sure you don't need to get down to that exact level to get benefits.  My goal is to shift my oral microbiome.

 

I would really love to see someone try something like a transplant.  Has anyone tried wiping out their microbiome with antibiotics that don't absorb into the bloodstream, and then replace it with either probiotics or an actual transplant?  There was a new study recently showing that method reversing some (or all) aspect of heart disease in mice, sorry forgot the details.  But it was certainly intriguing, and definitely doable.  As usual, it always comes down to risk/reward and how much creative destruction we are willing to engage in. I think if my gut microbiome came back messed up too, I would totally try that, but I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[TerryFirmer]

Hi Terry, 

 

I would love to hear your comments about my little experiment reported in Post 269 -even if all you can add is an educated speculation (which is natural considering the lack of concrete data we got)

 

Thanks in advance

 

Thanks for your n=1 - we could do with more in this thread. I certainly don't discount your experience with 'pure' 17938. In fact, I intend to give it a try myself, as soon as I can get some Protectis tabs. I would love to sleep more deeply and have better libido, so it's worth a shot.

 

I haven't been hugely impressed with the effects of the yoghurt I made from Gastrus; despite making/taking it for nearly nine months now, I can barely detect any difference in my body or mind. Perhaps my hair grows a bit faster - no real benefit to me in that. For years I used to get an eczema-like intense itching on my lower legs and that has cleared up. It seems to come back if I lay off the yoghurt for a while, so maybe that indicates less gut permeability due to the Reuteri.
 

Edited by TerryFirmer, 25 April 2019 - 03:45 AM.

[granmasutensil]

I contacted biogaia, they are coming out with the ATCC PTA 6475 product for sale this year.

[sub7]

Thanks for your n=1 - we could do with more in this thread. I certainly don't discount your experience with 'pure' 17938. In fact, I intend to give it a try myself, as soon as I can get some Protectis tabs. I would love to sleep more deeply and have better libido, so it's worth a shot.

 

I haven't been hugely impressed with the effects of the yoghurt I made from Gastrus; despite making/taking it for nearly nine months now, I can barely detect any difference in my body or mind. Perhaps my hair grows a bit faster - no real benefit to me in that. For years I used to get an eczema-like intense itching on my lower legs and that has cleared up. It seems to come back if I lay off the yoghurt for a while, so maybe that indicates less gut permeability due to the Reuteri.
 

 

Well of course some people claim it has done more than that for them, but the underlined part above is very significant; it is nothing at all to write off easily.

 

Question for you: 
I am trying to simply take in more of the active culture. I don't care about taste and would like to avoid milk if possible. 
I bought pure lactose, dissolved it in water and put my crushed tablets in there. Would that work to obtain as many active cultures as you have in the yogurt? 

In my case, the taste and smell of the lactose water did not seem to have changed. I was thinking that the solution should turn sour, because at least there should be lactic acid produced during fermentation, but there was no sour taste either. The culture uses lactose to multiply and survive, no? So my lactose water should have worked since it has everything needed, as far as I can tell. 
Can anyone think of any reason it would not?

 

Thanks

[StanG]

I've taken Lactobacillus Reuteri as well as 6 other probiotic formulas for 5-10 years (I alternate them) and the best benefit I have seen is that my stools are now regular and without pushing. At 76 chronological years old  this is a pleasure. I felt this just might be because my arteries etc aren't as stiff as they have been. Vince Guilliano  thinks it is because my gut has improved. Either or both ways, I feel these things work but they take time and too many people expect results immediately. It took many years for things to get this way and it has to take time for noticeable improvements. 

 

I recently sent in another Ubiome sample so I'll soon see if there are any changes in my gut.

 

[TerryFirmer]

I contacted biogaia, they are coming out with the ATCC PTA 6475 product for sale this year.

 

That's great news! People here have been waiting for that for a long time.

[TerryFirmer]

Question for you: 
I am trying to simply take in more of the active culture. I don't care about taste and would like to avoid milk if possible. 
I bought pure lactose, dissolved it in water and put my crushed tablets in there. Would that work to obtain as many active cultures as you have in the yogurt? 

In my case, the taste and smell of the lactose water did not seem to have changed. I was thinking that the solution should turn sour, because at least there should be lactic acid produced during fermentation, but there was no sour taste either. The culture uses lactose to multiply and survive, no? So my lactose water should have worked since it has everything needed, as far as I can tell. 
Can anyone think of any reason it would not?

 

Thanks

 

I'm no microbiologist but I'm sure pure lactose (or any other sugar) cannot be a sufficient substrate for growing L Reuteri. It needs protein as a source of nitrogen. That's why we heat the milk to denature the proteins in it and thus make them more available for digestion by the L Reuteri.
 

If you look back through the thread you'll see that another poster was experimenting with a non-milk substrate - I forget his handle.

[sub7]

I'm no microbiologist but I'm sure pure lactose (or any other sugar) cannot be a sufficient substrate for growing L Reuteri. It needs protein as a source of nitrogen. That's why we heat the milk to denature the proteins in it and thus make them more available for digestion by the L Reuteri.
 

If you look back through the thread you'll see that another poster was experimenting with a non-milk substrate - I forget his handle.

 

Really? Hmmm.... the NItorgen part is a surprise to me. If so -and may very well be the case- there is very minimal amounts of nitrogen needed, because when transitioning from a specific amount of milk to yogurt, there is essentially no loss in total protein weight as far as I know.

 

Also, yes people have tried all sorts of alternative culturing mediums, but in every case I have read taste was a consdieration; nobody wanted to end up with a concoction that ended up tasting like garbage. Not all the ingredients used were claimed to be essential for the fermentation process.

In my case, I am OK with a very foul tasting mixture; if I succeed it will taste very bad perhaps. It will be water, that is nastily sweet due to the lactose, theeafter made sour by the lactic acid.

[Oakman]

BioGaia Gastrus w/ATCC PTA 6475 is readily available on Amazon...

 

[aribadabar]

BioGaia Gastrus w/ATCC PTA 6475 is readily available on Amazon...

 

 

I think the people are looking for a product with ATC PTA 6475 only. Such product has not been for sale yet.

Gastrus contains both 6475+17938.

Edited by aribadabar, 28 April 2019 - 05:47 PM.

[StanG]

I took this for awhile until I found out that the quantity was much too small and: more importantly, it was not hardy and didn't survive well in the gut.

[Oakman]

I think the people are looking for a product with ATC PTA 6475 only. Such product has not been for sale yet.

Gastrus contains both 6475+17938.

 

Why does it matter if there is one other organism in the mix? If it can't compete with that, what hope does it have in the gut full of organisms?

[docmaas]

William Davis of Wheatbelly talks fairly extensively about Reuteri including his fermentation method here:  https://www.youtube....h?v=-or0C5umqFA  

[Oakman]

William Davis of Wheatbelly talks fairly extensively about Reuteri including his fermentation method here:  https://www.youtube....h?v=-or0C5umqFA  

 

Excellent, thanks! Making oxytocin rich yogurt (@57:45) using ATCC PTA 6475 & DSM 17938 sound straightforward I'm going to try it using the BioGaia Gastrus.

[William Sterog]

I have bought Gastrus and a yogurt maker, they will arrive on saturday, I will let you all know about the end-product.

[sdxl]

I took this for awhile until I found out that the quantity was much too small and: more importantly, it was not hardy and didn't survive well in the gut.

 

There is no evidence that 6475 doesn't survive well in the human gut. Just take a look at this study. And in vitro it doesn't seem that it isn't hardy enough, like in this study.  Here you can read the full study from page 57.

[sdxl]

BioGaia launches BioGaia Osfortis – a new product for the prevention of osteoporosis

https://www.biogaia....of-osteoporosis

 

 

 

 

[JPowers]

BioGaia launches BioGaia Osfortis – a new product for the prevention of osteoporosis

https://www.biogaia....of-osteoporosis

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for finding this! It's what we've been waiting for. I assume the addition of vitamin D won't cause problems if we make yogurt out of it, considering vitamin D is already added to milk.

[Ovidus]

Why does it matter if there is one other organism in the mix? If it can't compete with that, what hope does it have in the gut full of organisms?

Please read my prior posts; In my particular case, the other organism seems to be hurting me. I may be mistaken, but after a number of trials and errors, that has been my conclusion.It is not that the other organism is specifically going to interfere with the original one, 

 

 

There is no evidence that 6475 doesn't survive well in the human gut. Just take a look at this study. And in vitro it doesn't seem that it isn't hardy enough, like in this study.  Here you can read the full study from page 57.

 

That is not the point he is making. Please reread the original comment

[William Sterog]

I have made the first batch of yogurt. I made it with goat's milk. It tastes like kefir with a disgusting touch of mint, given that Gastrus has terrible sweeteners and shit in it. No effects yet.

[sdxl]

Thank you for finding this! It's what we've been waiting for. I assume the addition of vitamin D won't cause problems if we make yogurt out of it, considering vitamin D is already added to milk.

 

 As far as I know vitamin D should not affect the fermentation process negatively.

[JPowers]

I have made the first batch of yogurt. I made it with goat's milk. It tastes like kefir with a disgusting touch of mint, given that Gastrus has terrible sweeteners and shit in it. No effects yet.

 

The first batch is never good. It will continue to get thicker the more you make and the weird flavor will pass.

 

 As far as I know vitamin D should not affect the fermentation process negatively.

 

That's what I thought. Thank you.

[fntms]

Apparently l-reuteri could be lasting just a few hours in the gut according to this:

 

https://www.popsci.c...ic-surveillance

[Keizo]

Please read my prior posts; In my particular case, the other organism seems to be hurting me. I may be mistaken, but after a number of trials and errors, that has been my conclusion.It is not that the other organism is specifically going to interfere with the original one, 

 

 

 

That is not the point he is making. Please reread the original comment

Please reread my post.

[TerryFirmer]

Apparently l-reuteri could be lasting just a few hours in the gut according to this:

 

https://www.popsci.c...ic-surveillance

 

You can read the full study by searching for doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0151969 on sci-hub. I can't say that I have read, much less understood, the details of this very complex experiment. It was done with Reuteri 6475 modified to emit fluorescence, amongst other bacteria studied. It was done in rats. It seems to me that 6475 may colonise differently in rats than in humans, and also that the modifications may have altered its ability to survive in the GI tract.

 

It's also likely that co-feeding with prebiotics can markedly alter the survivability of L Reuteri. This topic is undergoing study:

 

https://ichgcp.net/c...try/NCT03501082

 

 

What has caused the disappearance of L. retueri is currently unknown. However, it is known that in order to help this species to grow specific types of carbohydrates need to be consumed. People in North America eat much less of these carbohydrates compared to rural Papua New Guineas. Examples of foods containing these carbohydrates include yams, beans, and artichokes. It may be possible for L. reuteri to live in the human gut if it is taken as a probiotic and a diet containing the types of foods which helps it grow is eaten. Furthermore, if L. reuteri can be re-established, it may have beneficial effects on how our immune system works. The investigators hypothesize that L. Reuteri can be re-established in the gut of Canadians when they are fed a diet containing the types of foods known to help it grow. To test this hypothesize, the survival of two strains of L. Reuteri in the gut of Canadians will be compared when they eat their usual diet, to when they eat a diet containing the types of food known to help L. Reuteri survive.

 

[William Sterog]

I am experiencing some constipation with my home-made yogurt. This is extremely inusual for me. Also, my libido is crazy high, to the point that it is affecting me psychologically. I made the yogurt with Gastrus and PB8, PB8 on its own used to increased my libido, but the capsules seemed to lose their effectivity over the course of weeks, maybe because the bacteria inside was dying until I offered them a new place.

[TerryFirmer]

I am experiencing some constipation with my home-made yogurt. This is extremely inusual for me. Also, my libido is crazy high, to the point that it is affecting me psychologically. I made the yogurt with Gastrus and PB8, PB8 on its own used to increased my libido, but the capsules seemed to lose their effectivity over the course of weeks, maybe because the bacteria inside was dying until I offered them a new place.

 

From a quick look on Amazon it appears that PB8 consists of a blend of 8 Lactobacillae with a CFU of 14 billion per capsule. Up against that you're pitting Gastrus with a CFU of 100 million per tablet. Bacteria compete for growth media! Which do you think is going to win? There could well be next to no L Reuteri living in your yoghurt.

 

On the other hand, the bacteria may co-operate such that the by-products of PB8 help the Reuteri to grow, as is the case with S Thermophilus and L Bulgaricus (the bacteria used to make standard yoghurt). In your case, we simply don't know which bacteria will dominate, so none of your symptoms can definitely be ascribed to 6475.