448 replies to this topic

[DukeNukem]

>>> Yikes that would be 100,000 chewable tabs per day lol  <<<

Bad math. ;-)

But yes, a lot of tablets: 100.

The goal with making yogurt is to create trillions of the strain.

I made my first batch this week, starting with 10 crushed tablets. I also added 4 grams of inulin, and 8 grams of potato starch, as food for the bacteria. I also used whole goat milk at the base (because I wanted to use A2 casein--vs A1). It came out a little watery, but here's how I make it into a meal:

o Equal parts homemade yogurt and store bought PLAIN goat yogurt--in total, about a cup. 
o 15 grams collagen protein (I use unflavored). 
o One teaspoon (4-5 grams) high-quality, fruit listed first, strawberry jam. (I use strawberry for the fisetin content, a senotherapeutic--life extending--flavonoid). 
o Half a Dixie cup (about two tablespoons) of crushed nuts. My mix is pecans, walnuts, hazelnuts and pistachios. Do NOT use cashews or peanuts--both legumes. 
o One half Dixie cup (I keep a stack of these handy in my kitchen) of mixed prebiotic powders (a mix of resistance starch from potatoes, green bananas, and inulin). 

Mixed all in a glass, it's about 350-400 cals, and super delicious, super filling, and the nuts give it a crunchy texture. I'll also add a teaspoon of MCT oil to most of my yogurt meals. 

Once I get a lot more of this homemade yogurt made, I plan to go a whole week with 80% of my meals being this yogurt mix. 

BTW, I'm moving away from whey protein powder the last six months because it's too insulinogenic. Collagen protein is my go-to now.

[Malf]

A good dose is likely the one used here. (at least it must have some therapeutic effects and should be kind of well researched if they rolled it in this study) 

 

 

https://onlinelibrar...1111/joim.12805

 

 

So around 10 billion per day should be something to aim for. 

 

yup and yet they only give you 100 million in a tablet, they just trying to make money overcharging a low dose, typical of these supplement companies many of them put fillers in and you only get 40 percent if you are lucky of the supplement you are buying, its all about making maximum profit without spending too much on the good stuff or else they would charge you 100 to 200 dollars for a potent pure form, might as well just add fillers to it and only put some of your product in and get away with it since its not FDA regulated.

[Malf]

>>> Yikes that would be 100,000 chewable tabs per day lol  <<<

Bad math. ;-)

But yes, a lot of tablets: 100.

The goal with making yogurt is to create trillions of the strain.

I made my first batch this week, starting with 10 crushed tablets. I also added 4 grams of inulin, and 8 grams of potato starch, as food for the bacteria. I also used whole goat milk at the base (because I wanted to use A2 casein--vs A1). It came out a little watery, but here's how I make it into a meal:

o Equal parts homemade yogurt and store bought PLAIN goat yogurt--in total, about a cup. 
o 15 grams collagen protein (I use unflavored). 
o One teaspoon (4-5 grams) high-quality, fruit listed first, strawberry jam. (I use strawberry for the fisetin content, a senotherapeutic--life extending--flavonoid). 
o Half a Dixie cup (about two tablespoons) of crushed nuts. My mix is pecans, walnuts, hazelnuts and pistachios. Do NOT use cashews or peanuts--both legumes. 
o One half Dixie cup (I keep a stack of these handy in my kitchen) of mixed prebiotic powders (a mix of resistance starch from potatoes, green bananas, and inulin). 

Mixed all in a glass, it's about 350-400 cals, and super delicious, super filling, and the nuts give it a crunchy texture. I'll also add a teaspoon of MCT oil to most of my yogurt meals. 

Once I get a lot more of this homemade yogurt made, I plan to go a whole week with 80% of my meals being this yogurt mix. 

BTW, I'm moving away from whey protein powder the last six months because it's too insulinogenic. Collagen protein is my go-to now.

 

Its sad it has to come down to this, the supplement companies low dosing and over pricing the Gastrus so consumers must make their own yogurt just to get enough of the strain to make a difference.

 

I won't make my own yogurt again last time I did it I got a very bad stomach ache and my stomach was grumbling, scared me and I stopped doing it, I wish another company comes out with this strain they use in Gastrus, is Biogia the only company that has it is it there patent or something? they sure as hell seem stingy with it only putting 100 million in a tablet, how much you think is actually left in there I heard the reason they put billions in probiotics is because many begin to die off, so 100 million id say maybe if you are lucky you wold get 20 million live bacteria.

 

What type of Collagen do you use, I heard people saying Great Lakes is good.

[William Sterog]

Yikes that would be 100,000 chewable tabs per day lol

American billions are 1,000,000,000, not 1,000,000,000,000. So "just" 100 chewable tablets.

Edited by William Sterog, 09 October 2018 - 05:03 PM.

[DukeNukem]

>>> What type of Collagen do you use, I heard people saying Great Lakes is good. <<<

I usually use several brands, so as not to put all my eggs in one basket, so to speak. Here's the brand I currently have opened and using:
https://www.amazon.c...017S267LI/?th=1

But I tend to buy several brands to spread around the risk of one brand being less than advertised, or having some trace toxic processing chemical, etc.

[John250]

American billions are 1,000,000,000, not 1,000,000,000,000. So "just" 100 chewable tablets.

Lol math wasn’t my strong point

[John250]

>>> What type of Collagen do you use, I heard people saying Great Lakes is good. <<<

I usually use several brands, so as not to put all my eggs in one basket, so to speak. Here's the brand I currently have opened and using:
https://www.amazon.c...017S267LI/?th=1

But I tend to buy several brands to spread around the risk of one brand being less than advertised, or having some trace toxic processing chemical, etc.

Most companies use type one and type three collagen which I believe is more beneficial for cosmetic reasons. For tendons and ligaments type two is best. Also from what I read you don’t want to mix type 2 with type 1 or type 3. Type 1 and Type 3 can be mixed fine but type 2 should be taken separate. SyraPlex is the best priced type2 I’ve seen especially since 5-10g is the best dose but it looks like their website is down. 2600mg/serving 75 servings total. It’s around $20-$25

https://syraplex.com...937-500x500.jpg

You can try emailing them

syraplex@gmail.com

Edited by John250, 09 October 2018 - 08:12 PM.

[airplanepeanuts]

For me the the biogaia gastrus dosage actually seemed ok for improved energy/ sociability etc. Did others get no effect from it?

[sdxl]

yup and yet they only give you 100 million in a tablet, they just trying to make money overcharging a low dose, typical of these supplement companies many of them put fillers in and you only get 40 percent if you are lucky of the supplement you are buying, its all about making maximum profit without spending too much on the good stuff or else they would charge you 100 to 200 dollars for a potent pure form, might as well just add fillers to it and only put some of your product in and get away with it since its not FDA regulated.

 

Gastrus is an adjunct treatment for those with H. pylori infections, not a treatment for osteopenia. It contains the same amount of bacteria per tablet as they used in the study. I have read they put 500 million CFU in a tablet of Prodentis to guarantee 200 million CFU at the expiration date. I don't think that it is much different with Gastrus.

[Malf]

>>> What type of Collagen do youD use, I heard people saying Great Lakes is good. <<<

I usually use several brands, so as not to put all my eggs in one basket, so to speak. Here's the brand I currently have opened and using:
https://www.amazon.c...017S267LI/?th=1

But I tend to buy several brands to spread around the risk of one brand being less than advertised, or having some trace toxic processing chemical, etc.

 

Do you see a difference like in hair skin and nails? also is it good to your stomach?

 

Im thinking of trying collagen because I read it is great for hair and skin, and joints.

[Malf]

Gastrus is an adjunct treatment for those with H. pylori infections, not a treatment for osteopenia. It contains the same amount of bacteria per tablet as they used in the study. I have read they put 500 million CFU in a tablet of Prodentis to guarantee 200 million CFU at the expiration date. I don't think that it is much different with Gastrus.

 

So that is its purpose is to help against Ulcers?

[quarter]

For me the the biogaia gastrus dosage actually seemed ok for improved energy/ sociability etc. Did others get no effect from it?

 

I feel like I get an nice effect from 2 gastrus tabs a day. Its a difficult effect to describe but "robust male reproductive health" seems appropriate. But I have nothing quantitative to back this up and it could obviously be entirely placebo.

 

At the moment I am a believer in the importance of good gut health, but I'm unsure as to the optimal way to achieve this. I have a number of concurrent strategies at the moment:

 

• Store bought Kefir
• Store bought Sauerkraut
• Supplemental biogaia gastrus
• Inulin powder with breakfast and evening dinner

 

I am tempted by ordering a Kefir starter kit to make my own Kefir, and/or making my own yogurt from the gastrus tabs, but I am not confident about my abilities to safely produce either of these.

Edited by quarter, 10 October 2018 - 07:08 PM.

[Malf]

I feel like I get an nice effect from 2 gastrus tabs a day. Its a difficult effect to describe but "robust male reproductive health" seems appropriate. But I have nothing quantitative to back this up and it could obviously be entirely placebo.

 

At the moment I am a believer in the importance of good gut health, but I'm unsure as to the optimal way to achieve this. I have a number of concurrent strategies at the moment:

 

• Store bought Kefir
• Store bought Sauerkraut
• Supplemental biogaia gastrus
• Inulin powder with breakfast and evening dinner

 

I am tempted by ordering a Kefir starter kit to make my own Kefir, and/or making my own yogurt from the gastrus tabs, but I am not confident about my abilities to safely produce either of these.

 

I read somewhere that you cannot restore gut bacteria with kefir, gastrus, or probiotics, the only way is to have a poop or fecal transplant where they take someone else poop and put it in your colon.

 

 

 

 

[Malf]

I took another pill tablet of Gastrus but this time instead of morning I took it before bed, and I woke up with a super hard morning wood lol

 

 

[MankindRising]

I find that biogaia gastrus makes a fair difference for my aspergers syndrome problems, what are the chances that the Indole-3-carboxaldehyde metabolite that it creates is fully responsible for the social benefits this strain gives. Note that indoles are aryl hydrocarbon receptors ligands and it seems that indole production in the gut seems to shift the tryptophan pathway away from serotonin production (often elevated in autism). high serotonin states are well known for their apathy like effects.

 

What I find fascinating is that a hangover makes me completely normal and alcohol seems to alter the gut microbiome towards more lactobacallus and bidifo strains (which are often low in autism). On top of that alcohol induces NRF2 through cyp1a2 (dioxins etc)/liver like induction and indoles are obviously AHR ligands as stated before. Thereby reducing TLR4 signalling and inducing GLP-1 signalling, GLP-1 signalling was recently shown to affect kisspeptin and oxytocin production.

 

TL:DR: If you benefit from reuteri atcc 6475/gastrus what are the chances that other indole ligands might exert a beneficial effect. For example have a look at the russian drug  Bemethyl (I cant post links yet as Im new here so bear with me but a quick google search will show you that it has the indole like structure and it is an acropotector). Basically indoles seem to induce hormetic/homeostasis like responses or am I wrong?

[JPowers]

First of all, I just wanted to thank you all for the helpful information posted here. I've been lurking for a while before my first attempt at making Biogaia yogurt. I purchased an Instant Pot on sale, but found out after I opened it that only the higher end models include a yogurt button. So, instead of getting another one, I searched for a yogurt maker with an adjustable temperature, because most of them keep the temperature too hot for Reuteri 6475. The only one I could find is made by a company called Luvele. You can set it to 36, 38, or 40 degrees Celsius. The maximum time is 24 hours, so if you require additional time, it needs to be set again.

My first batch of yogurt was made using 2 quarts of lactose free whole milk, 10 crushed Biogaia tablets, and 2 heaping tablespoons of dextrose powder. Most people here mention that glucose should be used, but after reading online that dextrose and glucose were the same, I purchased dextrose powder because it was easier to find and less expensive. (If I was misinformed and should be using glucose exclusively, please let me know.)

The ideal temperature for fermentation mentioned here is 37 degrees, so I wasn't sure if it would be better to go with 36 or 38, due to the restrictions of my yogurt maker. I used 38 and ran it for 36 hours total. It didn't turn out as thick as I had hoped, but others have mentioned their first batch from tablets isn't as thick as subsequent batches. It had these ricotta cheese-like bits mixed in, but they smooth out easily when stirred and couldn't be detected during consumption. Overall, I enjoyed the flavor.

Before I make my next batch, I want to get some opinions about my methods and what needs to be improved to get a thicker consistency. Should I keep the temperature the same? Should I add more dextrose, and is it detrimental if I add too much? I don't mind if it comes out sweet. When tasting the existing batch without added sweetener, it's slightly tart, leading me to believe that more could be used. Should I also be adding inulin or prebiotic fiber, and if so, how much? Sorry about all the questions, and thanks again for the help!

[TerryFirmer]

@JPowers

Your method seems fine. I assume you have read my detailed posts earlier in this thread?

Dextrose is glucose. 2% by weight is fine.

36 or 38 degrees - either is fine.

Subsequent batches made from the whey saved from the first batch will be thicker. If you want it even thicker, add co-culture of ordinary plain, live yoghurt, about 1% by volume.

Don't add inulin, it favours the less desirable strain of L Reuteri.

Do use lactose-free milk. Full cream milk will give a much thicker result than skimmed or semi-skimmed.

 

[JPowers]

@JPowers

Your method seems fine. I assume you have read my detailed posts earlier in this thread?

Dextrose is glucose. 2% by weight is fine.

36 or 38 degrees - either is fine.

Subsequent batches made from the whey saved from the first batch will be thicker. If you want it even thicker, add co-culture of ordinary plain, live yoghurt, about 1% by volume.

Don't add inulin, it favours the less desirable strain of L Reuteri.

Do use lactose-free milk. Full cream milk will give a much thicker result than skimmed or semi-skimmed.

 

Thank you for the reply. Yes, I did read your posts, but sometimes it was late at night and I may have overlooked a few things, including what someone mentioned about inulin. I was able to cancel my order from Amazon just in time, I appreciate that. Some of my information comes from Dr. William Davis' website and he was the one who mentions inulin, but he seems to be making a lot of assumptions.

 

I just made another batch using the small amount of yogurt I had left and it was much thicker this time. I also added more dextrose. It's not sweet or tart, so I think the right amount of dextrose was added and it was fully fermented. It seems perfect to me. Hopefully there's a good amount of 6475 in there.

[sdxl]

While none of the strains in Gastrus seem to ferment inulin or fructose the sugar inulin mainly consists of, it might affect their growth in an other way. If inulin is fully hydrolyzed in the digestive tract with the help of the gut microbiota releasing fructose which may act as an electron acceptor. In the presence of a carbohydrate that it does ferment it can make the metabolism of the bacteria more efficient, resulting in better growth.

 

There are several substances which can act as electron acceptor, but not all of them are equally effective and their effects may be strain dependent. I've only found evidence that fructose enhances the growth of DSM 17938. I can't find any data how it affects ATCC PTA 6475. According to this paper fructose, glycerol, pyruvate, citrate, nitrate and oxygen can act as electron acceptors for reuteri. There are others.

 

Citrate is a better electron acceptor than fructose for DSM 17938, but does not affect ATCC PTA 6475 and other reuteri strains according to this patent. Citrate is naturally occuring in milk. It's easy to modify my medium to make it citrate-free, but you can't take citrate out of milk. A citrate-free medium with glucose and no to little lactose and galactose should give ATCC PTA 6475 a better chance of outgrowing DSM 17938. Ideally I would like to include an electron acceptor that stimulates the growth of ATCC PTA 6475 and not of DSM 17938, if there are any.

[shp5]

https://www.facebook...29168633776061/

 

hopefully this means there's a pure 6475 product coming

[MankindRising]

https://www.facebook...29168633776061/

 

hopefully this means there's a pure 6475 product coming

I use biogaia gastrus to help with my aspergers/asd, its probably helps the most out of all supps ive been taking, even beats broccomax imo.

However the effects stop around 1-2 days after discontinueing so I would like to stress that the strain seems to have problems colonizing. Great aid however and worth the money for me, but as some as you might know the dsm17938 actually works oposite to the atcc 6475 with regards to tnf-alpha/il-6.

 

Ive mailed biogaia several times through their contact form to 'up the pressure' or atleast attempt so for them to release a standalone product containing atcc 6475.

 

With regards to the bone study you mentioned in women theres also another study that once again proofed efficiency in an ASD model (they used high fat model in previous one, they used a shank3 model this time):

 

Mechanisms Underlying Microbial-Mediated Changes in Social Behavior in Mouse Models of Autism Spectrum Disorder

http://dx.doi.org/10...ron.2018.11.018

 

Highlights

Treatment with L. reuteri rescues social deficits in several ASD mouse models

L. reuteri reverses social deficits via the vagus nerve

L. reuteri reverses social deficits even in germ-free mice

OXTR inhibition prevents L. reuteri’s effects on social behavior and VTA plasticity

 

For those that cant be bothered reading the entire study, they used atcc 6475 and the study showed it was effective as oxytocin itself, pretty impressive.

[shp5]

 

However the effects stop around 1-2 days after discontinueing so I would like to stress that the strain seems to have problems colonizing.

 

sadly, there is no probiotic that will colonize you permanently. biggest changes in microbioma come with eating more/different fiber. if we have a pure strain however, it will be easy and cost effective to keep on supplementing it with a home-made 6475 yoghurt or similar.

[TerryFirmer]

 

While none of the strains in Gastrus seem to ferment inulin or fructose the sugar inulin mainly consists of, it might affect their growth in an other way. If inulin is fully hydrolyzed in the digestive tract with the help of the gut microbiota releasing fructose which may act as an electron acceptor. In the presence of a carbohydrate that it does ferment it can make the metabolism of the bacteria more efficient, resulting in better growth.

 

There are several substances which can act as electron acceptor, but not all of them are equally effective and their effects may be strain dependent. I've only found evidence that fructose enhances the growth of DSM 17938. I can't find any data how it affects ATCC PTA 6475. According to this paper fructose, glycerol, pyruvate, citrate, nitrate and oxygen can act as electron acceptors for reuteri. There are others.

 

Citrate is a better electron acceptor than fructose for DSM 17938, but does not affect ATCC PTA 6475 and other reuteri strains according to this patent. Citrate is naturally occuring in milk. It's easy to modify my medium to make it citrate-free, but you can't take citrate out of milk. A citrate-free medium with glucose and no to little lactose and galactose should give ATCC PTA 6475 a better chance of outgrowing DSM 17938. Ideally I would like to include an electron acceptor that stimulates the growth of ATCC PTA 6475 and not of DSM 17938, if there are any.

 

 

Very informative, thanks. I'm sure you're aware of this graphic: https://imgur.com/a/HN4N5p6  It shows that fructose has negligible effect on the growth of both 6475 and 55703 (parent of 17938).

 

Bad news about the citrate in milk only helping 17938.

 

Did you have any luck with the plan to isolate 6475 as detailed in your post #227?
 

[TerryFirmer]

Rhamnose as an electron acceptor: https://digitalcommo...ext=foodscidiss

 

In this study, the efficacy of GOS and/or rhamnose-based synbiotic approaches in promoting colonization persistence and metabolic activity of L. reuteri was evaluated. A single blind, randomized, crossover, placebo-controlled human trial revealed that daily administration of the L. reuteri DSM 17938 (5 x 108 cells)/GOS (1g)/rhamnose (1g) synbiotic combination significantly stimulated metabolic activity of the probiotic strain in the human gut. This positive outcome presumably results from the ability of L. reuteri to metabolize GOS as a carbon and energy source, while utilizing rhamnose as an external electron acceptor for redox balance. In contrast, neither GOS (2g) nor rhamnose (2g) alone could exert such stimulatory effect. In addition, after the synbiotic administration was terminated, the extended supplementation of the carbohydrates without L. reuteri did not appear to improve the persistence of the probiotic in the gut.

 

It doesn't take us any further with 6475, but this prospective study will use rhamnose and raffinose to attempt to "re-wild" the guts of some lucky Canadians with 6475 (aka MM4-1A) and a similar strain isolated from the guts of the natives of Papua New Guinea:

 

https://ichgcp.net/c...try/NCT03501082

Very informative, thanks. I'm sure you're aware of this graphic: https://imgur.com/a/HN4N5p6  It shows that fructose has negligible effect on the growth of both 6475 and 55703 (parent of 17938).

 

Typo: 55703 should be 55730.
 

[sdxl]

Very informative, thanks. I'm sure you're aware of this graphic: https://imgur.com/a/HN4N5p6  It shows that fructose has negligible effect on the growth of both 6475 and 55703 (parent of 17938).

 

Bad news about the citrate in milk only helping 17938.

 

Did you have any luck with the plan to isolate 6475 as detailed in your post #227?
 

 

I'm not talking about it as a fermentable carbon source, but as an electron acceptor.  If you read the patent you can see that both fructose and citrate boost the growth of DSM 17938 significantly in the presence of GOS, a carbohydrate that it can ferment well and is a prebiotic. It needs to be in the presence of a carbon source it can ferment, otherwise the bacteria don't grow. 

 

Haven't started my basic microbiology setup yet, so no.

[MankindRising]

sadly, there is no probiotic that will colonize you permanently. biggest changes in microbioma come with eating more/different fiber. if we have a pure strain however, it will be easy and cost effective to keep on supplementing it with a home-made 6475 yoghurt or similar.

Yeah this is also what I understand from extensive reading on the subject and countless of posts on humanmicrobiome subreddit. Only fmt seems to be able to give (semi)permanent effects.

 

For now I stick to a combination of the following:

sulforaphane (broccomax)

2-3gram vitamin c

magnesium citrate and magnesium oil

3 gram korean red ginseng extract

biogaia gastrus.

 

Sulforaphane for glutamate/gaba balance by alleviating a pro-gaba state that happens in hyperammonia state in rat studies which Im sure will also extend to humans.

Pregnenolone sulfate and cGMP boosters also seem to hold promise to relieve the overpowered gaba state which can lead to cerebellum dysfunction symptoms.

Panax ginseng to increase PVN signalling (if my theory is right it should be a double whammer combined with atcc 6475 for evoking hypothalmic oxytocin release).

Biogaia gastrus for well... obviously oxytocin reasons.

Vitamin c and magnesium for being cofactors and rate limiting for oxytocin production.

[JamesPaul]

wikipedia says "In mammals, magnocellular neurosecretory cells in the paraventricular nucleus and the supraoptic nucleus of the hypothalamus produce neurohypophysial hormones, oxytocin and vasopressin."  Are those structures inside or outside the blood-brain barrier?  Magnesium threonate is supposed to be able to cross the blood-brain barrier.  If those structures are inside the blood-brain barrier, I wonder if magnesium citrate supplementation helps improve the rate of oxytocin production as well as magnesium threonate.

[Keizo]

yup and yet they only give you 100 million in a tablet, they just trying to make money overcharging a low dose, typical of these supplement companies many of them put fillers in and you only get 40 percent if you are lucky of the supplement you are buying, its all about making maximum profit without spending too much on the good stuff or else they would charge you 100 to 200 dollars for a potent pure form, might as well just add fillers to it and only put some of your product in and get away with it since its not FDA regulated.

AFAIK the quantity BioGaia states on their probiotic products refers to the amount guaranteed at the expiration date, of live bacteria. If I recall with at least 1 other brand of probiotics I bought they stated the amount at production, rather. I tried finding the amount BioGaia actually put in but I couldn't find any mention of an actual figure. Either way I'm quite content using a product that has some rather than no science behind it. 

 

I guess I could just reiterate my experience with the Gastrus tablets, they do produce effects, the only thing that's obvious is the gastrointestinal effects, less constipation, less pain, etc. But of course just eating some yoghurt on a regular basis probably provides similar benefits to a great many people in a similarly obvious way, and there are many rather fairly priced yoghurt products you can buy at the store (altho some are expensive) and there's no need for any sort of supplements to get some improvements in GI comfort for most people I would surely imagine.

Anyway I did stock up on like a years supply of Gastrus last year, actually it was probably close to 1.5x tablet per day until expiration, so I've been going at it for a year I guess roughly 1-2 tablets per day. I mostly find it interesting the remotely plausible social effects it might have, relating to autism like behavior and testosterone and so on, but with these self-experiments over time it's really hard to say what does what, but surely for whatever reason I do feel improved in a way that might suggest some of those rat studies might be relevant to humans. Either way for me I think it's cheap enough to pay <1USD per day for one supplement for my GI comfort with potential side-benefits that are hard to quantify. 

 

Here in Sweden the price is currently ~5 SEK per tablet. 

Edited by Keizo, 17 April 2019 - 03:57 AM.

[sub7]

OK Everyone, 

 

I got very interesting results to report:

 

I got my hands on two BioGaia products:

A regional version that only has the L. reuteri DSM 17938 in it

And then the famous blue boxes from the USA that has L. reuteri DSM 17938 + The L. reuteri 6475

 

Now, we had all thought that the 6475 was superior. Some people had dug up studies even showing that L. reuteri DSM 17938 was pro-inflammatory and questioned the logic of Biogaia in combining the pro-inflammatory L. reuteri DSM 17938 with the anti-inflammatory L. reuteri 6475.

 

I have spent the last few months making a lot of batches with either

 

A) pure L. reuteri DSM 17938 and then

B) with the pills out of the blue box, which means a combination of  L. reuteri DSM 17938 + The L. reuteri 6475.

 

My experience is absolutely unexpected in that A is very anti-inflammatory and has helped me tremendously. I have fewer aches and pains, seems to have significantly more libido, have better morning errections and sleep deeper (and more)

B, however, has been definitively pro-inflammatory. Yes, not that B is merely useless; it results in more inflammation than not using anything at all. I know this by the opposite experience of A. In particular, my lower back ( a specific spot there) and my gums, both of which tend to ache when I get stressed and undersleep as well as when I am getting sick, they both worsen when I get on B. 

 

Do you have any explanation for this at all?
As mentioned, this is the result of repeated experiments. I am just one subject, but we are talking reproducible results (albeit in a cohort of n=1).

[Valijon]

I haven't followed this thread in ages. Is the A type available in stores or online somewhere? We naturally dont need any more pro inflammatory substances.