161 replies to this topic

[normalizing]

 

 

 

proline - what's the point?

Suppose to be a collagen precursor, along with lysine. Might be useful. I've done it for a few months here and there myself. Might return. Might not.

 

That's precisely why I originally purchased it, along with lysine! What I've come to realize is that every positive thing that happens in mind and body has precursors, and I've had the habit of reading about the precursors and then deciding to buy them as supplements. This becomes absurd at some point.

Listing everything I take would require a fair amount of time so I'll just run down the ones I'm most committed to:
uridine (one of the few things I actually feel in my body, and I love the feeling)
noopept
PRL-8-53
ALCAR
ALA
CoQ10
B vitamins
D3
cal-mag-zinc
extra mag at bedtime
glycine and taurine at bedtime
valerian at bedtime
mucuna pruriens
tongkat ali
tribulus
catuaba
muira puama
rhodiola
ginkgo
bacopa
ashwagandha
schisandra
eleutherococcus
jiaogulan
hawthorne
DLPA
l-theanine
picamilon
phenibut
berberine
EGCG
cayenne
7-keto
african mango
resveratrol
glucosamine
TMG
EPA and DHA
Pre-workout: creatine, citrulline, and beta-alanine

Most of the herbs are standardized extract powders. I create my own blends, buy most items in bulk, and do my own capsules for the few items that taste too gnarly for me to take by the quarter teaspoon. I'm a pimp for adaptogens!

 

Does PRL-8-53 improve your memory?

 

 

 

what a silly question. you think its possible to distinguish the effect of this specific one from the gallon of others used all together? this is a problem with a lot of people who take shitload of supplements together. cant really tell which ones work and which do not. all you know is "i know they work together so i keep using them". its kind of an ignorant way of doing it, but as simply put as it is, it does work so keep doing it.

 

[deeptrance]

...you think its possible to distinguish the effect of this specific one from the gallon of others used all together? this is a problem with a lot of people who take shitload of supplements together. cant really tell which ones work and which do not. all you know is "i know they work together so i keep using them". its kind of an ignorant way of doing it, but as simply put as it is, it does work so keep doing it.

It's true that there's no way to distinguish effects. Even if I experience a notable difference from one of my supplements, I cannot say that it is the effect of that supplement when it's possible that what I am experiencing is an interaction and not a main effect.

I'm quite comfortable with the fact that I'm taking these things on "blind faith" and I don't try to convince anyone else to do as I'm doing. I'm a willing guinea pig. I'm in outstanding health in spite of the fact that I do some serious abuse of my body and mind in other ways. The biggest problems I see in my supplement habit are:
1. The cost --- maybe there's no point in taking ANY of it, and I'm tossing out a couple thousand $$ a year
2. Impurities --- the cumumlative effect of all the impurities in all these powders from China and India... heavy metals could cause some brain damage, there could be organ failure (kidneys in particular), and I could be getting hazardous amounts of one or more carcinogens.
3. Maybe I'd be in better shape, mentally and/or physically, if I weren't taking certain items on my list, but I have no way of knowing this.

I think we can all relate to that list of concerns and maybe some more could be added to it. I'm probably contributing to environmental problems in China (no doubt!) At least I don't feel like a victim, I'm not being duped or coerced by anyone. If I'm being stupid then I'm doing so of my own stupid free will. But I don't believe in free will so, shit, now this is just getting too deep.

[Deep Thought]

 

 

 

 

proline - what's the point?

Suppose to be a collagen precursor, along with lysine. Might be useful. I've done it for a few months here and there myself. Might return. Might not.

 

That's precisely why I originally purchased it, along with lysine! What I've come to realize is that every positive thing that happens in mind and body has precursors, and I've had the habit of reading about the precursors and then deciding to buy them as supplements. This becomes absurd at some point.

Listing everything I take would require a fair amount of time so I'll just run down the ones I'm most committed to:
uridine (one of the few things I actually feel in my body, and I love the feeling)
noopept
PRL-8-53
ALCAR
ALA
CoQ10
B vitamins
D3
cal-mag-zinc
extra mag at bedtime
glycine and taurine at bedtime
valerian at bedtime
mucuna pruriens
tongkat ali
tribulus
catuaba
muira puama
rhodiola
ginkgo
bacopa
ashwagandha
schisandra
eleutherococcus
jiaogulan
hawthorne
DLPA
l-theanine
picamilon
phenibut
berberine
EGCG
cayenne
7-keto
african mango
resveratrol
glucosamine
TMG
EPA and DHA
Pre-workout: creatine, citrulline, and beta-alanine

Most of the herbs are standardized extract powders. I create my own blends, buy most items in bulk, and do my own capsules for the few items that taste too gnarly for me to take by the quarter teaspoon. I'm a pimp for adaptogens!

 

Does PRL-8-53 improve your memory?

 

 

 

what a silly question. you think its possible to distinguish the effect of this specific one from the gallon of others used all together? this is a problem with a lot of people who take shitload of supplements together. cant really tell which ones work and which do not. all you know is "i know they work together so i keep using them". its kind of an ignorant way of doing it, but as simply put as it is, it does work so keep doing it.

 

 

PRL-8-53 sticks out.

[Deep Thought]

 

Does PRL-8-53 improve your memory?

The reason I like it is pretty specific to a certain type of memory function. When I take it, I get a few hours where I can remember with clarity everything that happened in that time frame. I have some problems with failing to remember what I was doing yesterday or even just a few hours ago, but PRL-8-53 has really helped me to kind of glue my memory back together so that I have a more accurate and complete timeline of events. I have not done any objective memory tests so all of this is purely anecdotal and very hard to substantiate, although I suppose I could do tests of "recalling what happened yesterday" where I compare two conditions. Problem with that is, every day is very different, so I can't control for all the factors that would affect my recall.

Glucosamine is ineffective, by the way. The human body produces a magnitude 10000 more glucosamine than what a standard dose contains, it is therefore highly unlikely that ~0.01% more glucosamine will do you any good.

My standard dose is 2 grams a day. You are suggesting that my body produces 2 kilos of glucosamine a day, which is obviously absurd.

I've taken glucosamine since the late 1980s, when I was diagnosed with osteochondritis dessicans and was told that I wouldn't be able to walk within 10 years because of how badly my cartilage had deteriorated. I went through 3 arthroscopic surgeries to remove loose pieces of cartilage that had broken off and were jamming the knee joint. I noticed what seemed to be a very good effect of glucosamine, and over the years I've become more convinced of this because I've gone for periods of time without it and my knee pain becomes severe at those times.

You could show me a thousand studies proving that glucosamine is useless and I would keep taking it. Maybe I'm a statistical outlier. I am strongly persuaded by empirical evidence, in the form of my own experience, that it's doing wonders for me, and I'm able to walk and run with less pain today at age 58 than I could when I was 32.

If 2 grams is a standard dose, then I agree that it's absurd. Did surgery fix your knee or do you ascribe the relief you've had to ingesting glucosamine? Or perhaps a combination of the two.

 

If it does work for you and if ingesting glucosamine has relatively mild side effects or no side effects at all, then I think that not listening to naysayers is a fair disposition.

Edited by Deep Thought, 19 May 2014 - 07:47 PM.

[deeptrance]

Did surgery fix your knee or do you ascribe the relief you've had to ingesting glucosamine? Or perhaps a combination of the two.

Surgery was only to remove loose fragments of cartilage, which didn't reduce the pain caused by not having cartilage, so I believe the glucosamine has been more helpful for pain. Also, I've had 3 periods of time where I ran out of glucosamine but didn't realize it, such as this winter. After about a month without gluc., I would start feeling like my knees were getting really bad and I would think, "This is it, I won't be able to walk soon." And then I remember each time that I ran out of gluc., so I get more, and then the pain is relieved. I think it's pretty clear that it's helping.

[eon]

I was aware of how great Taurine but seem to have forgotten why I bought it. I do take it daily for the past few months. Thanks for reminding me that taurine was not a waste of money after all. I've seen taurine on energy drinks prior to me taking actual taurine supplement. There is a Dr. Vita magnesium supplement that came with taurine so it makes sense.

 

Anyway, the ALCAR I had been taking again, is this supposed to be "speedy"? Yesterday my mind was just running ever since I used ALCAR again. I've used it before but didn't notice the speediness, not sure if it has anything to do with newer/other supplements I take it with. I've taken ALCAR along with sodium ascorbate (vit c), mag glycine, and TMG at about the same time. Not sure if the combo made ALCAR more potent? All I know is that ALCAR is to be taken with sodium, perhaps the sodium in sodium ascorbate sped up the ALCAR effects? I took 500mg of ALCAR am then another dose pm. Could the b vitamins have synergy with ALCAR as well?

[Mr.No]

 

:-)

Edited by Mr.No, 20 May 2014 - 08:47 PM.

[Duchykins]

That video is hysterical, thanks for posting it! :D

[eon]

I never understood the whole love for COQ10 when doesn't it supposedly become toxic (I read from a book). Idebenone is the synthetic form of COQ10, which I have taken before and still have the powders and is said to be the more potent and better form.

 

Commercially I believe Idebenone is not too available in the U.S. or is not legal at all. It is prescription in Japan. 

 

Is the non-toxic form of COQ10 called Ubiquinol? Is the reason for ubiquinol's existence was because it is a better form of COQ10? I'm sticking with Idebenone but still curious about the different derivatives of COQ10. 

 

 

[deeptrance]

I never understood the whole love for COQ10 when doesn't it supposedly become toxic (I read from a book).

 

Curious as to what this might be about, I did a search on the term "coq10 toxicity" and found fairly unanimous statements to the effect that it's safe in doses far above what most people take. Maybe you could provide more information about the book you're referring to? It's important not to spread false information or start rumors. 

[eon]

The book is Smart Drugs & Nutrients. Here's the quote regarding COQ10 and Idebenone...

 

"COQ10 has troubled some researchers because of its ability to metabolize into a toxic molecule with a highly reactive free radical. Idebenone seems to have all the benefits of COQ10, yet it does not create such a reactive metabolite (Pearson and Shaw, 1989). 

 

The book is old and perhaps information changed since? Or perhaps COQ10 has been made better?

 

 

 

I never understood the whole love for COQ10 when doesn't it supposedly become toxic (I read from a book).

 

Curious as to what this might be about, I did a search on the term "coq10 toxicity" and found fairly unanimous statements to the effect that it's safe in doses far above what most people take. Maybe you could provide more information about the book you're referring to? It's important not to spread false information or start rumors. 

 

 

[eon]

what attracted me to glucosamine sulfate was that its purported ability in increasing height. There is info. out there circulating but not sure if it's valid. Some guy took like 4 g daily for 2 months and saw a 2 inch height increase. Plus it is said that glucosamine in the spine decreases with age. There's nothing wrong with taking it if you can afford it. I have taken 1 g am and 1 g pm but dropped it to 1 dose only. I just got lazy taking too many pills. Would have loved to have experimented with its possible height increase possibility but I think I came across someone mentioning that over 2 g of it may strain the kidneys.

 

 

 

Did surgery fix your knee or do you ascribe the relief you've had to ingesting glucosamine? Or perhaps a combination of the two.

Surgery was only to remove loose fragments of cartilage, which didn't reduce the pain caused by not having cartilage, so I believe the glucosamine has been more helpful for pain. Also, I've had 3 periods of time where I ran out of glucosamine but didn't realize it, such as this winter. After about a month without gluc., I would start feeling like my knees were getting really bad and I would think, "This is it, I won't be able to walk soon." And then I remember each time that I ran out of gluc., so I get more, and then the pain is relieved. I think it's pretty clear that it's helping.

 

 

Edited by eon, 23 May 2014 - 08:00 AM.

[eon]

Isn't a 300mg of pyridoxal 5 phosphate a bit high? I just saw one product from Source Naturals on amazon.com. There was no review of it yet so I'm assuming it is a new product. Anyone chime in. The version I am currently taking is the 100mg version.

[Duchykins]

300mg is P5P (B6) is too much for daily use except in rare medical conditions. This is a good example of why you cannot trust supplement companies to provide safe doses of a product and advertise it properly, even if the company is very good with the quality and purity of the product. They cater to fads and ignorant consumers, if something is all the rage then they will sell it regardless of how little we about the chemical (like astaxanthin). If people think more is better, they will sell people large doses if they can get away with it. You can easily find vitamins D & E in 5000 IU capsules and larger, this is way too much for the average consumer to take daily. 5000mcg biotin. 500mg niacin. 800mcg chromium picolinate. 800mcg folic acid. 400+mg gingko biloba. 600mg alpha lipoic acid (too much to take all at once, should be spread out over the day). I forget the green tea doses that damage the liver and kidneys. Liquid iodine for drinking in the milligrams ... omg. And on it goes. It's very important to get your information from more scientific sources before buying a supplement.

Edited by Duchykins, 24 May 2014 - 06:28 PM.

[normalizing]

^ thats true especially for B vitamins. tons and tons of companies, supplements out there that sell mega doses of the Bs claiming bigger is better. ive known of several people personally complaining of problems associated with b6 megadoses, and who knows how many asking if the high b6 dose they take has caused them the problems they have. just check how many supplements have 100mg of b6... a lot! some go even higher. some will just go as low as 50mg but i believe you need 10 or 20mg unless you have health problems. b6 easily builds up even if its water soluble, there is literature that shows it can build up for a while.

[Dolph]

B6 doesn't "build up". It doesn't need so to be toxic over a certain threshold.

[eon]

I just doubled checked while the amount is 300mg, the actual p5p in it is really 201mg, which is I think the max you can take per day. I guess this is for people who prefer to max on p5p.

 

300mg is P5P (B6) is too much for daily use except in rare medical conditions. This is a good example of why you cannot trust supplement companies to provide safe doses of a product and advertise it properly, even if the company is very good with the quality and purity of the product. They cater to fads and ignorant consumers, if something is all the rage then they will sell it regardless of how little we about the chemical (like astaxanthin). If people think more is better, they will sell people large doses if they can get away with it. You can easily find vitamins D & E in 5000 IU capsules and larger, this is way too much for the average consumer to take daily. 5000mcg biotin. 500mg niacin. 800mcg chromium picolinate. 800mcg folic acid. 400+mg gingko biloba. 600mg alpha lipoic acid (too much to take all at once, should be spread out over the day). I forget the green tea doses that damage the liver and kidneys. Liquid iodine for drinking in the milligrams ... omg. And on it goes. It's very important to get your information from more scientific sources before buying a supplement.

 

[Duchykins]

People should only take more than 100mg of B6 under the supervision of a doctor. I have read doctor reports of using B6 in 250mg doses on their psych patients as part of a protocol to treat pyroluria and similar problems... that doesn't mean it's okay for people to just grab 200 and 300mg of B6.

Edited by Duchykins, 26 May 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[normalizing]

as i said, normal dose if done regularly is 20mg or so. wtf is with that 100mg and over bullshit

[Duchykins]

Must've been a typo, you wrote 201mg

[eon]

Not a typo. A 300mg P5P from Source Naturals yields 201 mg. I don't know why they would put on the bottle it is 300mg, yet only yields 201 mg of actual P5P. Why is this?

 

http://www.amazon.co...xal 5 phosphate

 

 

Must've been a typo, you wrote 201mg

 

[eon]

This is what I take:

 

http://www.amazon.co...xal 5 phosphate

 

The bottle says 100mg yet it really only has 67 mg of P5P.

 

as i said, normal dose if done regularly is 20mg or so. wtf is with that 100mg and over bullshit

 

[knightly]

this thread is GOLD.

 

Time for the product makers to pay the price, name and shame guys !!!

[eon]

anyone here ever tried magnolia or pine bark (pycnogenol)? I'm looking into trying those 2 products. I heard nothing but positives about those products. Magnolia seems hard to find and only a few companies make them. I'll see if I can find magnolia in tea form at an organic market where I bought some gotu kola as well (which I still haven't tried). I bought a serving or two of it for about 31 cents. LOL.

Edited by eon, 30 May 2014 - 07:57 AM.

[eon]

just tried some hydrochloric acid suppement (betain hcl) with pepsin in it. From what I understand this helps with breaking down foods we eat and thus the vitamins and minerals of foods actually gets better absorption? So this is a stomach tonic. We produce this naturally (hydrochloric acid) but decreases as we age. For whatever reason I just felt great after taking it with a meal, maybe the meal I ate actually got broken down properly. I heard some stomach growling I haven't heard in a while. Curious what this supplement does when taking vitamin and mineral supplements, will it give them an extra boost in absorption then as it does with the foods we eat or it has nothing to do with it since the liver does its job for it, not the stomach? Someone explain better.

Edited by eon, 17 July 2014 - 09:45 AM.

[Phatplatypus]

Phenibut- Great for acute anxiolytic effects, but DO NOT take chronically 

Piracetam- Took it for years, and for all the hype, very very little effect, and made me feel down and sad often

Multivitamin- bunk

ginkgo- very subtle effect, idk if its worth the money

Taurine- no noticeable effect

Phenylpiracetam- decent, almost would call it a stimulant but still quite weak

Adrafinil- definitely works, but definitely doesnt feel healthy

Noopept- seems to work well

Aniracetam- felt like a novel kind of headache, which i suppose could be interpreted as 'enhancement'

Sulbutiamine- no effect

octopamine- no effect

ashwagandha- slight anxiolytic effect

bacopa- slight focus enhance, noticeable negative on the libido : /

fish oil- snake oil

..list goes own.. mostly ineffectual let downs built under the enthusiasm spark by reading these forums... Starting to think 'Nootropics' is on par with homeopathy which is quite sad. Also sad I spent so much money figuring that out..

[eon]

you ordered from bunkdepot.com huh? ginko gives me head aches so i know it's not bunk. the aniracetam you used, how come you didn't use any choline source? I don't do fish oil anymore but a plant based DHA source (algae). My skull could feel my brain with this one. LOL.

 

multi vitamins I haven't taken in over a year. I don't get it. I take single vitamins and minerals so I get what I want and need without the other stuff. It isn't as expensive as most people would think. Amazon has a subscription offer so it gets cheaper. I don't get how a water soluble and fat soluble vitamin/mineral could be in 1 multi-vitamin format. The people who take them with just water probably aren't absorbing the fat soluble vitamins within it. Sad. 

Edited by eon, 18 July 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[knightly]

Phenibut- Great for acute anxiolytic effects, but DO NOT take chronically 

Piracetam- Took it for years, and for all the hype, very very little effect, and made me feel down and sad often

Multivitamin- bunk

ginkgo- very subtle effect, idk if its worth the money

Taurine- no noticeable effect

Phenylpiracetam- decent, almost would call it a stimulant but still quite weak

Adrafinil- definitely works, but definitely doesnt feel healthy

Noopept- seems to work well

Aniracetam- felt like a novel kind of headache, which i suppose could be interpreted as 'enhancement'

Sulbutiamine- no effect

octopamine- no effect

ashwagandha- slight anxiolytic effect

bacopa- slight focus enhance, noticeable negative on the libido : /

fish oil- snake oil

..list goes own.. mostly ineffectual let downs built under the enthusiasm spark by reading these forums... Starting to think 'Nootropics' is on par with homeopathy which is quite sad. Also sad I spent so much money figuring that out..

 

And where did you buy this so called "fish oil" from?

[Geeo Peeo]

moringa - totally pointless

 

astaxanthin - cannot be abosrbed with fat and even then has low absorption rate

 

maca root - pointless

[knightly]

L-Tyrosine 500MG (FREE FORM) = AWESOME !  100% EFFECT

L-5HTP = Very Good (50%-80% effect)

 

CHOLINE 1000MG = No effects