184 replies to this topic

[pone11]

Greg - thanks for your replies!

 

I wanted to say couple more things:

 

1. Just the seal was a problem on the bottles. But as a side note, if the bottles can be smaller, would be a plus, as shipping them across the oceans get cheaper. - just my suggestion.

 

2. Same suggestion with the serum: I bough it for my wife, and the bottle is quite large. A smaller bottle, I guess will suffice.

 

3. I wanted to say something else, that after I started to take Niagen's NR with MitoQ, some days I tried taking only 2.5 mg of MitoQ (one pill) w/ 250 Niagen + 100 mg TransResveratrol, but I did feel the difference in good when I take 5 mg (two pills).

 

 

I do hope that your research is moving forward imrpoving MitoQ as well as  finding positive connections between MitoQ and NR and other telomerase activators!

 

thanks again!

 

alc, approximately how old are you, and do you take statins?    One point to consider is that a young person - who does not take statins - probably won't be depleted in CoQ10.   I don't think you get any value from "extra" CoQ10 that you cannot store in your membranes.  The people who benefit from MitoQ are those who are depleted in CoQ10: people who take statins, normal declines with age, and sickness.

[alc]

@pone11 - I'm +45. My understanding is that CoQ10 levels start to decrease @ 20, then @ 40 they go downhill.  I do not take statins. Whenever I learn something I look at MayoClinic, Linus Pauling Institute, Buck Institute, or similar resources.

 

Do you have a different knowledge on this? If yes, can you post some trustfull resources.- thanks.

[pone11]

@pone11 - I'm +45. My understanding is that CoQ10 levels start to decrease @ 20, then @ 40 they go downhill.  I do not take statins. Whenever I learn something I look at MayoClinic, Linus Pauling Institute, Buck Institute, or similar resources.

 

Do you have a different knowledge on this? If yes, can you post some trustfull resources.- thanks.

 

At that age I think you should get some benefit.   I'm not clear that you would "feel" the benefit as more energy, depending on what your aerobic metabolism status is.    

[tintinet]

I feel nothing, but that's typical for me with almost every supplement I've ever tried.

[alc]

@ pone11 & tintinet - I mentioned this in the post before "after I started to add Niagen I did feel a positive difference (more energy, more positive attitude, much lower appetite - after I take Niagen, I can literally go on hours and hours without the need of eating)".

 

But when I used just MitoQ (and Lipoic Acid + Acetyl Carnitine) - I did not feel anything. And some other people taking it told me same thing.

 

One of my goals was to see if I feel improvement in my feet neuropathy when the weather is changing. When storm/rain is coming, I feel the pain in various locations in my feet and sometimes other articulations in the body - the locations differ sometimes.

 

I also have an irascible temper during that time.

 

I did see a bit of improvement after taking   MitoQ + Nicotinamide Riboside + ResveratrolPterostilbene, but not a lot. I hope it's improving and is not a placebo effect!

 

@ pone11 - I do not know what "aerobic metabolism status is" - but I'll search a bit and see how I can figure out that.

 

Like I mentioned, I started MitoQ like 3 months ago, and adding NR like almost a month ago.

 

I do take a ton of other nutraceuticals though - but I did not feel anything on any of them, except after starting this combo MitoQ + Nicotinamide Riboside + ResveratrolPterostilbene.

 

Again, might be placebo?

 

Thanks for commenting on.

[niner]

alc, approximately how old are you, and do you take statins?    One point to consider is that a young person - who does not take statins - probably won't be depleted in CoQ10.   I don't think you get any value from "extra" CoQ10 that you cannot store in your membranes.  The people who benefit from MitoQ are those who are depleted in CoQ10: people who take statins, normal declines with age, and sickness.

 

Maybe you need to be Q10-deficient in order to "feel" MitoQ (I speculate) but it should still be doing something as a mitochondrial antioxidant, even if you are Q10-replete.   We've had people with Statin injuries respond incredibly well to c60oo, which suggests that MitoQ would be a win there.  It does seem like more people "feel" something from c60oo than from MitoQ.

[niner]

@ pone11 & tintinet - I mentioned this in the post before "after I started to add Niagen I did feel a positive difference (more energy, more positive attitude, much lower appetite - after I take Niagen, I can literally go on hours and hours without the need of eating)".

 

But when I used just MitoQ (and Lipoic Acid + Acetyl Carnitine) - I did not feel anything. And some other people taking it told me same thing.

 

Have you tried the experiment where you just take NR, to see if that is what you're feeling?

[alc]

 

@ pone11 & tintinet - I mentioned this in the post before "after I started to add Niagen I did feel a positive difference (more energy, more positive attitude, much lower appetite - after I take Niagen, I can literally go on hours and hours without the need of eating)".

 

But when I used just MitoQ (and Lipoic Acid + Acetyl Carnitine) - I did not feel anything. And some other people taking it told me same thing.

 

Have you tried the experiment where you just take NR, to see if that is what you're feeling?

 

 

@ niner - no, I have not tried only NR.

I started MitoQ (nad bunch of other supplements) and then started NR.

Might be like you said, just the NR, but in my head I hope they work togther. If that is the case, then it is a good point for MitoQ manufacturer to look into a

more superior combination. Maybe MitoQ+NR+c60?

I would love to see a more science + studies behind all these, even though it is database created in a voluntary basis by this community.

I have no problem to share my "parameters" in order to improve our fight on aging (and why not reverse it!).
 

[pone11]

@ pone11 & tintinet - I mentioned this in the post before "after I started to add Niagen I did feel a positive difference (more energy, more positive attitude, much lower appetite - after I take Niagen, I can literally go on hours and hours without the need of eating)".

 

But when I used just MitoQ (and Lipoic Acid + Acetyl Carnitine) - I did not feel anything. And some other people taking it told me same thing.

 

One of my goals was to see if I feel improvement in my feet neuropathy when the weather is changing. When storm/rain is coming, I feel the pain in various locations in my feet and sometimes other articulations in the body - the locations differ sometimes.

 

I also have an irascible temper during that time.

 

I did see a bit of improvement after taking   MitoQ + Nicotinamide Riboside + ResveratrolPterostilbene, but not a lot. I hope it's improving and is not a placebo effect!

 

@ pone11 - I do not know what "aerobic metabolism status is" - but I'll search a bit and see how I can figure out that.

 

Like I mentioned, I started MitoQ like 3 months ago, and adding NR like almost a month ago.

 

I do take a ton of other nutraceuticals though - but I did not feel anything on any of them, except after starting this combo MitoQ + Nicotinamide Riboside + ResveratrolPterostilbene.

 

Again, might be placebo?

 

Thanks for commenting on.

 

It helps to go take an undergraduate level class online on glycolysis, citric acid cycle, and electron transport chain.  Once you know where a supplement might act in the energy production cycle, it makes it easier to talk about.

 

CoQ10 supports electron transport between complexes in the electron transport chain.  It might be that this is not the bottleneck in your system, therefore increasing the amount of CoQ10 is not producing more energy.

 

Nicotinamide Riboside supposedly helps conversion of NADH to NAD+, and high NAD+/NADH both speeds up energy in the citric acid cycle, as well as may partly compensate for other defects in the electron transport chain.

 

The body is complex.  Different supplements support different parts of the body, and if something isn't the bottleneck, then supporting it is not going to be felt as more energy.

[nabur]

I'd be interested, maybe others who are interested can post here or do we want to create a group buy thread?

Me too.  

[pone11]

 

 

I don't see how you can expect to develop a large audience for your product at the current price.  60 capsules at 5 mg/each for $60 means if you take 20 mg a day you have a 15 day supply.   No one is going to spend $120/month for a single supplement.

 

 

With studies like this I see how they can. Imagine that a human trial is done and finds that you can get some, maybe even a large degree of metastasis inhibition, with MitoQ, MitoTEMPO or C60.

MitoQ already has a pretty good tox-profile for humans. I can see that ending up on the front page of some big websites.

A Mitochondrial Switch Promotes Tumor Metastasis

 

http://www.cell.com/...1247(14)00527-0

 

 

It's amazing that you posted this study and not a single person noticed it.   The study is basically implying that MitoQ (along with MitoTempo, another superoxide scavenger targeted at mitochondria) may stop most tumors from metastasizing.   The study contains incredibly detailed and good science.

[niner]

 

 

I don't see how you can expect to develop a large audience for your product at the current price.  60 capsules at 5 mg/each for $60 means if you take 20 mg a day you have a 15 day supply.   No one is going to spend $120/month for a single supplement.

 

With studies like this I see how they can. Imagine that a human trial is done and finds that you can get some, maybe even a large degree of metastasis inhibition, with MitoQ, MitoTEMPO or C60.

MitoQ already has a pretty good tox-profile for humans. I can see that ending up on the front page of some big websites.

A Mitochondrial Switch Promotes Tumor Metastasis

 

http://www.cell.com/...1247(14)00527-0

 

It's amazing that you posted this study and not a single person noticed it.   The study is basically implying that MitoQ (along with MitoTempo, another superoxide scavenger targeted at mitochondria) may stop most tumors from metastasizing.   The study contains incredibly detailed and good science.

 

Personally, I think that paper (Porporato et al.) is hugely important.  I think it may be at least part of the reason why Baati's rats didn't have any tumors.  Not only did they show that mitochondrial antioxidants suppress the metastatic phenotype, but they worked out the molecular pathways.  It's great science.

[alc]

 

Personally, I think that paper (Porporato et al.) is hugely important.  I think it may be at least part of the reason why Baati's rats didn't have any tumors.  Not only did they show that mitochondrial antioxidants suppress the metastatic phenotype, but they worked out the molecular pathways.  It's great science.

 

 

Not to deviate the discussion, but recently there was a study published by Rutgers University about Oleocanthal

 

"Oleocanthal kills cancer cells with their own enzymes"

 

Ingredient in Olive Oil Looks Promising in the Fight Against Cancer

 

http://news.rutgers....11#.VOn2Zy40iFt

 

This goes hand-in-hand with C60oo studies? I hope so.

 

Should we had a separate discussion about Oleocanthal, or combined with C60oo and MitoQ?

[Kalliste]

 

 

 

I don't see how you can expect to develop a large audience for your product at the current price.  60 capsules at 5 mg/each for $60 means if you take 20 mg a day you have a 15 day supply.   No one is going to spend $120/month for a single supplement.

 

 

With studies like this I see how they can. Imagine that a human trial is done and finds that you can get some, maybe even a large degree of metastasis inhibition, with MitoQ, MitoTEMPO or C60.

MitoQ already has a pretty good tox-profile for humans. I can see that ending up on the front page of some big websites.

A Mitochondrial Switch Promotes Tumor Metastasis

 

http://www.cell.com/...1247(14)00527-0

 

 

It's amazing that you posted this study and not a single person noticed it.   The study is basically implying that MitoQ (along with MitoTempo, another superoxide scavenger targeted at mitochondria) may stop most tumors from metastasizing.   The study contains incredibly detailed and good science.

 

 

I'm peeved by that too, if it really could inihibit metastasis in vivo that would be insane news. Everyone would use them? I wonder when someone will try this in people, it's already aproved for people. If it inihibited 100 % in vivo thats a nobel prize!

 

[pone11]

 

 

 

I don't see how you can expect to develop a large audience for your product at the current price.  60 capsules at 5 mg/each for $60 means if you take 20 mg a day you have a 15 day supply.   No one is going to spend $120/month for a single supplement.

 

With studies like this I see how they can. Imagine that a human trial is done and finds that you can get some, maybe even a large degree of metastasis inhibition, with MitoQ, MitoTEMPO or C60.

MitoQ already has a pretty good tox-profile for humans. I can see that ending up on the front page of some big websites.

A Mitochondrial Switch Promotes Tumor Metastasis

 

http://www.cell.com/...1247(14)00527-0

 

It's amazing that you posted this study and not a single person noticed it.   The study is basically implying that MitoQ (along with MitoTempo, another superoxide scavenger targeted at mitochondria) may stop most tumors from metastasizing.   The study contains incredibly detailed and good science.

 

Personally, I think that paper (Porporato et al.) is hugely important.  I think it may be at least part of the reason why Baati's rats didn't have any tumors.  Not only did they show that mitochondrial antioxidants suppress the metastatic phenotype, but they worked out the molecular pathways.  It's great science.

 

 

The Cell study makes the comment that MitoTempo / MitoQ had no effect on progression of the primary cancer.   The effect they noted was only against metastasis. 

 

Now, you could hypothesize that the same effect with ROS that makes the metastasis process work might also be similar to what starts the original cancer.   So perhaps C60, MitoTempo, and MitoQ are protective against new cancers.   But that's a different study we are waiting for....

[pone11]

 

 

With studies like this I see how they can. Imagine that a human trial is done and finds that you can get some, maybe even a large degree of metastasis inhibition, with MitoQ, MitoTEMPO or C60.

MitoQ already has a pretty good tox-profile for humans. I can see that ending up on the front page of some big websites.

A Mitochondrial Switch Promotes Tumor Metastasis

 

http://www.cell.com/...1247(14)00527-0

 

It's amazing that you posted this study and not a single person noticed it.   The study is basically implying that MitoQ (along with MitoTempo, another superoxide scavenger targeted at mitochondria) may stop most tumors from metastasizing.   The study contains incredibly detailed and good science.

 

I'm peeved by that too, if it really could inihibit metastasis in vivo that would be insane news. Everyone would use them? I wonder when someone will try this in people, it's already aproved for people. If it inihibited 100 % in vivo thats a nobel prize!

 

To show you the insanity of the world, and the insanity of the FDA regulation:  probably the folks at MitoQ are chomping at the bit wanting to talk about this study, but they can't.  If they talk about stopping metastasis, the FDA will step in and bury them with 20 years of paperwork and $100M of expenses.   The FDA rules are that you cannot make claims about curing diseases unless you have gone through their regulation.   If the makers of MitoQ say nothing, most people won't even notice the study or make the connections on their own.   So potentially a lot of people die sooner, for lack of information.

 

It's yet another example of why the FDA should be restricted to an information labeling agency, and their only authority to stop drugs from being sold should be to require safety studies.   Efficacy is something that should be left to the free market, time, and science without the emcumbrance of bureaucrats.

 

We have created something unbelievably sick in this country in how the FDA works.

Edited by pone11, 22 February 2015 - 08:12 PM.

[niner]

To show you the insanity of the world, and the insanity of the FDA regulation:  probably the folks at MitoQ are chomping at the bit wanting to talk about this study, but they can't.  If they talk about stopping metastasis, the FDA will step in and bury them with 20 years of paperwork and $100M of expenses.   The FDA rules are that you cannot make claims about curing diseases unless you have gone through their regulation.   If the makers of MitoQ say nothing, most people won't even notice the study or make the connections on their own.   So potentially a lot of people die sooner, for lack of information.

 

It's yet another example of why the FDA should be restricted to an information labeling agency, and their only authority to stop drugs from being sold should be to require safety studies.   Efficacy is something that should be left to the free market, time, and science without the emcumbrance of bureaucrats.

 

We have created something unbelievably sick in this country in how the FDA works.

 

The tide is finally turning.  There's now a general recognition in Washington that we have traded off too much value in our paranoid search for a risk-free existence, as far as drug regulation is concerned.  I think there is going to be some change "soon", by Washington standards.  Phase 1 studies, where they only look at safety in healthy people, and phase 2 studies, where they look at both safety and efficacy in the target population, are relatively cheap.  It's the phase 3 trials, where they look mostly at efficacy but also safety in a much larger group of the target population that's the killer.  I would like to see an expanded phase 2, followed by marketing with strict reporting requirements and patients being informed that they are part of the "phase 3 in the wild" group.  This would get drugs into people's hands more quickly and with far less expense, so you would see more drugs make it to market.   It would mean that users or their doctors would have to register them at a web site, and they would need to be followed more closely until enough data was gathered.  Once the data is in hand, the drug could be pulled if it had too many problems, or cleared for unrestricted use if it was clean.  Something along these lines could actually happen.  Bug your congressperson if you want to be proactive.

[niner]

 

Personally, I think that paper (Porporato et al.) is hugely important.  I think it may be at least part of the reason why Baati's rats didn't have any tumors.  Not only did they show that mitochondrial antioxidants suppress the metastatic phenotype, but they worked out the molecular pathways.  It's great science.

 
The Cell study makes the comment that MitoTempo / MitoQ had no effect on progression of the primary cancer.   The effect they noted was only against metastasis. 
 
Now, you could hypothesize that the same effect with ROS that makes the metastasis process work might also be similar to what starts the original cancer.   So perhaps C60, MitoTempo, and MitoQ are protective against new cancers.   But that's a different study we are waiting for....

 

 
Here is a paper that found growth attenuation in a melanoma mouse model using MitoTEMPO.  Maybe it depends on the particular type of tumor.
 

Antioxid Redox Signal. 2013 Aug 1;19(4):344-9. doi: 10.1089/ars.2013.5185. Epub 2013 Mar 20.
Does scavenging of mitochondrial superoxide attenuate cancer prosurvival signaling pathways?
Nazarewicz RR1, Dikalova A, Bikineyeva A, Ivanov S, Kirilyuk IA, Grigor'ev IA, Dikalov SI.

1Division of Clinical Pharmacology, Vanderbilt University Medical Center, Nashville, TN 37232, USA.

It has been previously suggested that overexpression of mitochondrial superoxide dismutase (SOD) attenuates cancer development; however, the exact mechanism remains unclear. In this work, we have studied the direct effect of the mitochondria-targeted superoxide scavenger, (2-(2,2,6,6-tetramethylpiperidin-1-oxyl-4-ylamino)-2-oxoethyl)triphenylphosphonium chloride (mitoTEMPO), on B16-F0 mouse melanoma cells and tumor growth in a nude mouse model of human melanoma. We show that scavenging of mitochondrial superoxide inhibited cell growth, reduced viability, and induced apoptosis in melanoma cells, but did not affect nonmalignant skin fibroblasts. Diminished mitochondrial superoxide inhibited redox-dependent Akt, restored activity of mitochondrial pyruvate dehydrogenase, and reduced HIF1-α and lactate dehydrogenase expression in cancer cells. Suppression of glycolysis in mitoTEMPO-treated melanoma cells resulted in a significant drop of cellular adenosine-5'-triphosphate and induced cell death. In vivo mitoTEMPO treatment effectively suppressed growth of established tumor in the mouse model of human melanoma. Therefore, our data lead to the hypothesis that scavenging of mitochondrial superoxide selectively inhibits redox-sensitive survival and metabolic pathways, resulting in cancer cell death. In contrast to existing anticancer therapies, inhibition of mitochondrial superoxide may represent a novel specific anticancer treatment with reduced cytotoxic side effects.

PMID: 23373855 PMCID: PMC3700017 Free PMC Article

[Kalliste]

 

 

 

 

I don't see how you can expect to develop a large audience for your product at the current price.  60 capsules at 5 mg/each for $60 means if you take 20 mg a day you have a 15 day supply.   No one is going to spend $120/month for a single supplement.

 

With studies like this I see how they can. Imagine that a human trial is done and finds that you can get some, maybe even a large degree of metastasis inhibition, with MitoQ, MitoTEMPO or C60.

MitoQ already has a pretty good tox-profile for humans. I can see that ending up on the front page of some big websites.

A Mitochondrial Switch Promotes Tumor Metastasis

 

http://www.cell.com/...1247(14)00527-0

 

It's amazing that you posted this study and not a single person noticed it.   The study is basically implying that MitoQ (along with MitoTempo, another superoxide scavenger targeted at mitochondria) may stop most tumors from metastasizing.   The study contains incredibly detailed and good science.

 

Personally, I think that paper (Porporato et al.) is hugely important.  I think it may be at least part of the reason why Baati's rats didn't have any tumors.  Not only did they show that mitochondrial antioxidants suppress the metastatic phenotype, but they worked out the molecular pathways.  It's great science.

 

 

The Cell study makes the comment that MitoTempo / MitoQ had no effect on progression of the primary cancer.   The effect they noted was only against metastasis. 

 

Now, you could hypothesize that the same effect with ROS that makes the metastasis process work might also be similar to what starts the original cancer.   So perhaps C60, MitoTempo, and MitoQ are protective against new cancers.   But that's a different study we are waiting for....

 

 

Cancer is a lot of different things. Some may respond positively to this treatment. Some may not. The evolving nature of some tumor-states makes me wonder if some types may eventually overcome this hurdle that Mito-AO presents.

It looks like a small thing to test this in humans, it's approved to some extent, the result (progression or no progression of metastasis) should be easy to measure. I wonder if there is a way to alert cancer researchers about stuff like this.

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 23 February 2015 - 12:45 PM.

[niner]

 I wonder if there is a way to alert cancer researchers about stuff like this.

 

The researchers probably know, since (one presumes) they follow the literature.  Doctors probably don't know, and they're usually the ones with the patient contact.   Whether doctor or researcher, they both face an incredible hurdle:  If they give a patient an unapproved compound, and something bad happens, they could be in a lot of trouble.  When people have cancer, bad things happen a lot.   I would look for a trial in the near future, but it will have to get funded and go through the usual IRB channels.  

 

A doctor could say to their patient, "There's a very promising new drug called MitoQ.  I can't give it to you, or even recommend it to you, but if you were to google it, you might be able to buy it on the internet."  I don't see that happening very often, because doctors are clueless about new compounds, since they don't have time to learn about them and often don't have the scientific chops to read the literature anyway.  That's where patient forums and sites like Longecity come in.  These are an entirely new conduit for knowledge like this to leak out to patients.  Of course, dosing yourself with an experimental compound on the basis on something you read on a web site takes a certain leap of faith...

[SimbaLion]

Any current discounts for this?  I'm trying to get a few bottles for my parents...

[gregmacpherson]

Any current discounts for this?  I'm trying to get a few bottles for my parents...

 

Yes... I will update you with a code that will give a 15% discount next week. 

 

Thanks

[alc]

@ Greg - great to hear that!

 

I was ready to ask same question about any future discounts.

 

So it will be a discount code posted here in this discussion at Longecity?

 

thanks.

[sthira]

I'd really like to get this for my aging parents and grandparents, as well. The high price is just so discouraging, though, especially when we don't even know if it'll work to help reduce their pain and suffering, and promote healing. One day maybe our tire species will learn that healing people -- good clean medicine -- should not be a profit-oriented business in which a small number of people gain financial health off of the suffering of others. I wish we would all just -- evolve -- and the sooner the better for everyone.

[SimbaLion]

Any news on a discount code?  

[SimbaLion]

 

Any current discounts for this?  I'm trying to get a few bottles for my parents...

 

Yes... I will update you with a code that will give a 15% discount next week. 

 

Thanks

 

 

It's been a few weeks -- any update on this?  Ready to order?  

[alc]

Myself I was waiting on this discount. Please, can Greg tell us when it's going to happen?

MitoQ is quite expensive and a 15% would be welcome.

Thanks!

[gregmacpherson]

Hi All, thanks for your patience. 

 

The code is LONG15APR  and will give you 15% off all orders until the end of April.   

 

Happy saving!!

 

Greg

[alc]

Hi All, thanks for your patience. 

 

The code is LONG15APR  and will give you 15% off all orders until the end of April.   

 

Happy saving!!

 

Greg

 

Thanks Greg!

 

Like others on this forum, besides for me and my wife, I'm buying it  also for my aging parents and parents in law. And that add quite a lot to our small budgets, so any saving is really appreaciated!

 

Now, let me dream a bit: MitoQ to become 2x more powerful and 1/2 the price as it is now ... with a new improved
delivery mechanism  ... and couple studies that shows very good  synergistic effect between MitoQ and NR, like you mentioned in one of earlier posts: 1+1 = 5 ...

 

And now seriously, if your company can afford to reduce the price as the manufacturing technology advances, I'm sure that sales will increase a lot and your profit will go up.

Just a business thought.

 

Looking forward to new developments/generations for MitoQ and new positive studies!

[The Ripper]

This may be a stupid question, but would the synergistic effect of MitoQ and NR have any relevance to the topical serum?

It's interesting that Tiron can block UVA damage by (I think) some kind of chelating effect of the mitochondria. Similarly, I read studies where consumed MitoQ was able to mitigate something like 40% of the effects of UVA in rats. I'm starting to wonder if MitoQ both oral and especially topical could become a good means of preventing skin ageing both in terms of its ability to protect against IR but also now UVA. 

Already my sun-protection regimen consists of home-made CE Ferulic at night, MitoQ serum in the morning, followed by a very strong sunscreen. It would be nice to know that MitoQ's serum is serving a purpose outside of just IR protection. Strangely enough though MitoQ's website never makes any specific claims about the serum. Is this related to FDA regulations?