40 replies to this topic

[velocidex]

I've hunted around and cant find anything that specifically contraindicates modafinil and selegiline, though most sites urge caution.

Does anyone here have any experience with this, or any other information?

[jeromewilson]

For what it's worth I've recently taken them together and didn't notice any adverse effects.

[enigma]

Are you currently taking deprenyl? I dont know why anyone would want to take Modafinil aswell, deprenyl keeps you very alert (or it has this effect on most)

Though I didnt take them together, and a quite a long time apart from each other, these are the only nootropics (actually it was adrafinil not modafinil) I have had adverse reactions too (definitely not caused by interactions with each other)

Havent heard of any interactions between them.

[velocidex]

Whilst I do notice an improvement in energy levels on 5 mg per day selegiline, I still find that I feel mentally tired.... I'm mentally tired all the time. I wasn't intending on taking them both together for long periods, just on occasion.

[enigma]

I still find that I feel mentally tired.... I'm mentally tired all the time

Tried ALCAR? seems to give me an energy boost, also Hydergine is supposed to increase ATP levels in the brain.

If Modafinil works for you however, then theres no problem. Keep an eye on your language ability though, whilst the vast majority dont report any decline, It could perhaps be that for most people they only feel a slight decline, not enough to notice or attribute to Modafinil in a testimonial.

[vastman]

velocidex.
I've taken Modafinil for the past 6 months to deal with periodic sleepiness due to acute sleep apnea. Generally I am able to deal with my apnea using a CPAP machine and don't need the Modafinil but there are times when I don't use the mask at night and it really leaves me drowsey. Modifinal really helps in those situations.

Last month I added cyprenil to my overall life-extension stack, along with Metformin and Desmopressin. My overall supplement stack is pretty lengthy and I've just begun to add the nootropics to it but so far I've found no wierd interactions between Deprynil and Modafinil. At 54 years old I'm using 5-8 drops of selegine total a day, split in two doses (same for Metformin) and generally use Modafinil 2 to 4 times a week as needed, generally 200-300 mg. when needed.

I can only say that Modifinil is most helpful for sleepiness. It definately ups my alertness level but I don't get anything else from it. That is it's main function and it does it well.

You didn't mention why you are doing Modifinil...but if it's for sleepyness, I'd strongly urge a sleep study. The amount of undiagnosed Apnea out there is very high and Modifinal is no substitute for a good night sleep. Indeed, untill I began using a CPAP machine my life was a real mess and it made a big difference in my energy level and quality of life. They have home sleep monitoring units now that are pretty easy to use and can determine if this might be causing you problems.... just a thought...

[velocidex]

enigma -- I've tried ALCAR to only minimal effect.

My girlfriend has never reported me waking up with snorts etc that could be from sleep apnea.

[vastman]

apnea is often not detected by one's partner. Often it is often it isn't. The only reason I mentioned it is that I have met many people who self-medicated their apneas in various ways, generally with stimulants (from coffee on up to speed) and were gratified to discover the underlying condition.

The other query I made is what's going on with you to ask about both these substances? As LifeMirage is fond of asking, what are you trying to accomplish?

[velocidex]

It's for staying up late when taking selegiline. I'm not after any synergistic effect, just the ability to stay up til the early hours of the morning without resorting to significant amounts of caffeine (which always makes me feel cracked out when it wears off). Mainly for going out and partying, I guess

[jolly]

Tried ALCAR? seems to give me an energy boost, also Hydergine is supposed to increase ATP levels in the brain.

If Modafinil works for you however, then theres no problem. Keep an eye on your language ability though, whilst the vast majority dont report any decline, It could perhaps be that for most people they only feel a slight decline, not enough to notice or attribute to Modafinil in a testimonial.

Why do you say a pay attention for decrease in language ability? While there are other factors that could have contributed, my use of Modafinil suggests there coulld be a negative effect on language ability.

[enigma]

Why do you say a pay attention for decrease in language ability?

This is the experience that I had on Adrafinil, it would likely be the same for me with Modafinil. As well, if you look hard enough you’ll find other reports on this forum where people have reported language ability decline from Modafinil. Remedyfind.com also has over 100 modafinil testimonials and you’ll find reports of language decline there also.

I actually had a number of side effects, but this one seems to be fairly commonly reported in testimonials. This is not an official side effect. I suspect that more people experience it than report it because it might be only minor to some people, unnoticeable for some, or others may be too uncertain that language decline has been a side effect of Modafinil, given this is not an official side effect.

[magister]

I have been taking 200mg modafinil 5 days a week in the morning...for about 7 months now, except for a month break back in march... I also have been taking 1 drop of liquid deprenyl (cyprenyl) every other day...roughly...

Things started out great, and for awhile I was flying, and stopped the piracetam, Alpha GPC, idebenone, vinpocetine I had been taking...I was getting good enough milage I just plain couldn't be fused with anything more.

More recently I have been getting weird headaches...well sort of headaches...more like tension in specific parts of the head, like a knot just behing the eyeballs. Also I get kind of anxious like I can't sit still.

However there are other factors...I spend alot of time in front of the computer, easily from 10-15 hrs daily, next during the week I actually sleep very little, like 5 hours is norm, but sometimes less 3 or 4 even 1hr some bad nights, sticky summer heat??. As well as I drink too much caffeine, although the modafinil and coffee mix in the morning really gives me a lift I get out of bed for....I continue with the caffeine during the day trying to keep this level up, but wind up increasing the anxious edge, getting really bitchy especially with computer technical glitches, and need to go take a piss every quarter of an hour, I drink water trying to compensate which means more trips to the bathroom. This makes it hard to just sit and concentrate,which in turn detracts from the original use of the nootropics. Also due to the increase of caffeine I have found it harder to wind down and have started using phenibut again...it could be that the head tension started when I added phenibut at night a couple of months ago...also I have added the piracetam, idbeone, fish oil, vinpocetine, lechithin...

Still I am thinking some pramiracetam should sort things out, and will aquire when bulk supplies arrive on the scene...

I had heard long-term use of modafinil was ok, but I didn't take it one day and had alot of trouble staying awake at work, especially after lunch.

[enemy]

Try drying out completely and rebooting.

[magister]

I would like too really, but I think I would need a week off work to do that, and I don't think I could do that right now...I know what it will be like, unable to sleep at night, and tired all day....and then what reboot? Like start a new course all over again...and reboot in another 6 months...

[magister]

I think actually there must be a magic sixth gear...then I will retire earlier, grow a dreadlock beard, and lye in a hammock in costa rica taking in nothing but coconut juice

[enemy]

I'll give you something to chew on.

I used modafinil every other day during the spring semester, approximately 4 months time. It got me through daytime classes while working nights. I also used hydergine, piracetam and centrophenoxine stack for this time period. I didn't even realize it, but I lost most of my inductive reasoning capabilities.

To define this, what I consider inductive reasoning capability is the ability to make something from seemingly nothing, to find the underlying connection or continuity in a mess of assumptions, givens (in math), or empirical data (in physics, economics), etc.

I got a 3.72 gpa this past spring. That is the good part. May 9, 2005 was my last examination. I probably slept, on average, 11 hours a night for the first week to ten days after classes ended. It was only then that I could see clearly what I had done to myself.

It was like the lights had come back on, my old powers had returned. Now, this borders on apophenia, but this is the way I see it: I had lost the ability to draw the obscure connections, the ones most people don't usually make. I call it my ability "to see the future", but only in a glib metaphorical sense. After decompressing and rebooting, it had come back. The problem was, they had crept away so slowly that I never realized what happened. Now I do. I've slept about 8-9 hours a night all summer long. I can honestly say that my volume of sleep is the most beneficial thing my mind has ever experienced.

School starts again on August 28th; back into the metaphorical trenches; back on the sapho juice... Needless to say, I'm not looking forward to it.

[magister]

interesting...yeah a break would put it into perspective, unfortunately I am no longer a student, but a programmer under pressure to finish a project with constantly shifting goal posts, the more these shift the worse the stains get from the sapho. I usually take 1 modafinil in the morning monday-friday....I notice on weekends I sleep alot more, like 10 hours and then still have cat naps during the day. Today I took 2 drops of cyprenyl, no headaches but a bit more anxious.

[dakingofschwing]

Magister,

Who are you working for?

There are dozens of studies that show drastic declines of programmer
productivity whan they spend more than a week working as little as 10
hours a week of overtime. Basically, you end up with an office full of
people playing Counterstrike on the company LAN ...

Myself, I go for 20 to 30 good hours of work a week.

[enemy]

Myself, I go for 20 to 30 good hours of work a week.

We're not in europe anymore, toto.

[jeromewilson]

We're not in europe anymore, toto.

[lol]

I'm also "a programmer under pressure to finish a project with constantly shifting goal posts" who just bought some Modafinil to keep going. I wouldn't and don't take it every day but it certainly does the job.

I'm in Europe and this deadline is playing hell with my tea breaks and 3 hour siestas, I can tell you...

[magister]

actually the island I am on has an isolationalist streak comparable to the one in the USA...so it was never really part of europe but just close to it.

Oh and the company I work for is a startup but luckily I charge by the hour...

[bellcurve]

So there are people who have taken both in combination, in semi-extended situations, and not had any serious adverse side-effects?

[magister]

Well yes I am back to this thread after 4 weeks in which I did reboot. Well not completely, basically I kicked the phenibut, modafinil, and have given L-Deprenyl a rest. And the pressure knots in my head are gone, also I am not overexcited with is why I have give L-Deprenyl a temporary rest.

But definately when I started modafinil 200mg first thing upon waking with water, 5 days a week, and 1 drop of liquid L-Deprenyl every other day, this combo was good with no problems. I was drinking alot of strong coffee during this time so that did put a slight tension in the mix. Sometimes I had to stomp my foot hard on the floor when I wrote a stupid bugged bit of code...sometimes my foot would hurt. But when I didn't drink so much coffee some days and it went down clean and smooth. Having said that I must add that I am not a health profession and all advice I give should not be used by you to make up your mind, goto pubmed and email some neurochemists. I must add that my brain could be a freak of nature...I once drank red wine and ate strong cheese before drinking a bitter ayahuesca brew containing a potent MAOI beniseriopsis capii.
I did get a bad case of the shits and felt like the crown of my head had cracked open and the universe within was spilling out. I guess you could classify that as a hypertensive reaction.

[magister]

Just to add when I reread you question, I felt my last post was a bit more about storytelling then answering the topic.

I started the 200mg 5day/1 drop L-d every other day and went for 6 weeks. I was on very little else, perhaps 800 mg of piracetam here or there and some lecithin, often I would forget to take these. then I took a 2 week holiday and was off everything. Then
I came back I went another month-to-month and a half with the above combo. It was after this that other things got layered into the mix and I lost track of what was doing what but it definately came to a point where I was getting tension in the head and too much energy, anxiety, restlessness.

bascally apply the KISS philosophy to your nootropic stack could be the lesson I learned.

[mitkat]

magister, i did a paper on Banisteriopsis cappi and other botanicals used in varied regional ayahuasca brews last year. eating all that tyramine before hand could of really jived you over, but that "head cracking open" thing is to be expected when dealing with those kinds of psychoactives [thumb] [tung]

[bellcurve]

That's why I never wanted to try ayahuesca (but I am kinda intrested in smoking some DMT), but that must have been a horrible trip. Anyways, i'm taking 5mg/day tablets and I was thinking of taking some modafinil maybe once a week or so for class or tests. Thanks for replying, i'll probably try the pubmed thing.

[magister]

Yeah mitkat I was surprised, there was maybe about 1-2 hours between the wine and cheese and the brew. The B.Caapi was from "...of the jungle" and I had had it for a couple of at least maybe 5 months...I don't know if the vine looses potency. I think I just brewed it in water mascerating with my teeth so some saliva. I had a few shrooms and one white crystalline hit of n,n-Dmt along with a few hits of 'california sunshine'...Just mixed the whole lot up....and shared it with 5 others.

bellcurve, no actually the trip was really wonderful, perhaps the way I explain it doesn't appeal to you, using words like 'cracked open the crown of my skull' can turn some off.
....I know what you mean tough...the ayahuasca brew can last for hours, the gradual build-up gives you time to think "Oh gosh what have I done"....pure n,n- you are right there in about 5-10 seconds....you only have to tell yourself..."Just take one more toke".....be sure to careful with the 5-meo.

Also get the liquid Cyprenyl it is much better than the pills...I also think you are wise to keep modafinil use to an intermittant activity. Looking back I think my 5 a week M-F schedule was too much. I even took it on days when I had slept very well and was not tired. I did then go to 4/wk, then to 3/wk, but really it is best to use it only when you didn't sleep well and need to be awake. Also the first time you have it you feel the motivation effect alot more, this tapers off quickly and it is then only an awakeness drug.

[power.bulls.x]

cephalon is trying the new armodafinil a more long lasting form of modafinil should be in here in a couple of years souds like a patent extending trick... however.


it hapens sometime that i needs to stay awake studing (2-4 night/month) instead of sleeping => modafinil at 200mg was enougth for keeping me awake the first couple of box. i also used used modafinil as a stim befor exams:
200mg modafinil
2.25mg deprenyl
2g p-alcar
1g piracetam
400mg oxyracetam...
4mg hydergine
600mg adrafinil
100mg caffeine+desmo so i dont want to pie while on exams [lol]

My first time on deprenyl like my first time on modafinil : it has great and nice stims/awkening effects. lovely stuff. BUT: Tolerance is likely to build up in a crazzy fast way for me [ang] [ang] [ang] [mellow] [mellow]

i just can say 200mg modafinil is not enougth now to keep me awake . it doesnt have anymore strong awakening effect. I dont want to use more it costs me a bunch of $$ and might have a negative effect on kidneys...

I noticed that taking a lot of phopholipids like choline precusor/increasing sups:PS,alpha-C,choline citrate (no ach inibitor) and other notropics like desmo+(pira/oxy/anyra)cetam+hydergine & lithium could ease the headache and the wired feeling from modafinil. might be due to

any better spus for awakening ??
any idea about tolerance ??
[mellow]

Edited by pbx06, 27 February 2006 - 01:40 AM.

[sentinel]

*Prehistoric Bump*

OK it's been a while since this thread was active but although I have seen people warning about combined use of Deprenyl and Modafinil I haven't found any publications or hard research to back it up.

I have infact been trying the liquid Dep at c 2mg, 5x per week and using modafinil 3-5 days per week (100-200mg max per day) for the last month with only positive (if not profound) effects, but that's not to say it isn't doing something negative in the background.

So Deprenyl is (at my low dose) a selective MAO inhibitor which leads to increased levels or "store" of Dopamine.
Modafinil has been suggested to increase Dopamine levels but in other studies it is suggested that it inhibits the action of the dopamine transporters..

So for those who are against combining the two, what are the hard facts (or even anecdotal ones) behind the opinion?

Sentinel

[revnik]

I have infact been trying the liquid Dep at c 2mg, 5x per week and using modafinil 3-5 days per week (100-200mg max per day) for the last month with only positive (if not profound) effects, but that's not to say it isn't doing something negative in the background.

Same story here, I've been experimenting with a low dosage of Derprenyl (2x 2,5 mg /week) in combination with 50-150 mg of Modafinil daily. The deprenyl seems to intensify the effects of Mod, which is a good deal since Mod is pretty expensive stuff.

I do feel like I wake up more at nights and sleep somewhat less deep compared to normal (when I only take Mod).

For as far I know there anen't any hard facts since there've never been clinical trials/research on Modafinil in combination with MAOI's.