390 replies to this topic

[Metagene]

Not the best picture but you get the idea.

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[Flex]

This is getting fairly interesting

Also, I am from Germany but WOW - does LabChem have the ugliest most sketchy looking website ever :D

(Not saying they aren't legit, but they really should hire a webdesigner)

 

Have to add that when typing those shops in google, than appear some threads where they mention house raids..

And this happens even to normal companies or others who need the simplest chemicals regulary.

But oddly, not to all people.

 

So before ordering, check out whether this is true.

Some people can even loose their apartment, if the Landlord sees a ( unnecessary) Police-raid. 
 

Edited by Flex, 31 July 2014 - 09:35 PM.

[chris106]

 

This is getting fairly interesting

Also, I am from Germany but WOW - does LabChem have the ugliest most sketchy looking website ever :D

(Not saying they aren't legit, but they really should hire a webdesigner)

 

Have to add that when typing those shops in google, than appear some threads where they mention house raids..

And this happens even to normal companies or others who need the simplest chemicals regulary.

But oddly, not to all people.

 

So before ordering, check out whether this is true.

Some people can even loose their apartment, if the Landlord sees a ( unnecessary) Police-raid. 
 

 

 

Whait, what? I'm not quite sure I get what you are saying - So there have been house raids for people who ordered chemicals from these companies? Or the companies themselves have been raided?

So the police somehow got hold of customer data and did random house raids? Could you go into a little more detail on that?

 

[Flex]

This was the thread what I´ve found:

http://www.versuchsc...enversandt.html

 

See post nr.5 and nr.7 ( They arent numerated, You have to count them)

But Nr.6 says that everthing was Ok with his orders

 

Edit: and this

http://www.wahrexakt...obbychemie.html

 

As I said, just check it whether its relevant.

 

 

Edited by Flex, 01 August 2014 - 12:13 AM.

[chris106]

Thanks for the information - now I get what you mean

 

[Metagene]

I'm on day 6 and the effects of 9-methyl-β-carboline have definitely become more pronounced. I took 400mg of modafinil yesterday and it felt overwhelming. Then my usual 30mg of Adderall caused depressive symptoms this morning but I did also drink a diet Dr. Pepper as well. 

 

[Metagene]

I don't expect to see much improvement above baseline but for reference:

 

 My Scores - Cambridge Brain Sciences.png   132.14KB   14 downloads

[Reformed-Redan]

Awesome. Plan on taking this to combat amp tolerance.

[chris106]

So I think I fucked up my dopaminergic/reward system a bit because I took (and sometimes abused to an extent) Ritalin for 3 years, now 3 years ago.

Could this be exactly what I'm looking for? Is this regeneration actually a long term fix, like some substances like Tianeptine and NSI are supposed to fix hippocampal distrophy? Or doeas it only help dopaminergic neurons to regenerate quicker in the short term?

This is clearly a few levels above my science-skills ... :D

[Flex]

I can say that the induction or upregulation (?) of Nurr1 trough 9-me-BC really catched my attention.

Actually I forget why, but here are some results what I´ve found for now:

 

Nurr1 regulates dopamine synthesis and storage in MN9D dopamine cells.

...Our results demonstrate that Nurr1, but not retinoids, increases DA content and the expression of aromatic L-amino acid decarboxylase (AADC) and vesicular monoamine transporter-2 (VMAT2) in MN9D cells. In a Nurr1-inducible cell line upregulation of VMAT2 is dependent on continuous Nurr1 expression

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12915123

 

α-Synuclein-induced down-regulation of Nurr1 disrupts GDNF signaling in nigral dopamine neurons.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23220632

 

https://www.michaelj...hp?grant_id=112

---------------------

Apart from this I would suggest You to also take a look at Chinese Herbs.

I have (re)discovered them recently for my self, and they seem to be a Goldmine.

 

Gastrodia elata Blume alleviates L-DOPA-induced dyskinesia by normalizing FosB and ERK activation in a 6-OHDA-lesioned Parkinson's disease mouse model.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24650244

 

New insights into the brain protein metabolism of Gastrodia elata-treated rats by quantitative proteomics.

In addition, tianma treatment also induced the up-regulation of molecular chaperons and proteins related to the misfolded protein response, like Anxa5, and also other proteins involved in Huntington's disease (HD) (e.g. Pacsin1 and Arf3)

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22402058

 

Selective inhibition of MMP-9 gene expression by mangiferin in PMA-stimulated human astroglioma cells: involvement of PI3K/Akt and MAPK signaling pathways.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22465218

 

Ameliorative effects of a combination of baicalin, jasminoidin and cholic acid on ibotenic acid-induced dementia model in rats.

Additionally, the expression levels of 19 genes in the forebrain were significantly influenced by CBJC; approximately 60% of these genes were related to neuroprotection and neurogenesis, whereas others were related to anti-oxidation, protein degradation, cholesterol metabolism, stress response, angiogenesis, and apoptosis. Expression of these genes was increased, except for the gene related to apoptosis. Changes in expression for 5 of these genes were confirmed by western blotting.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23437202

Edited by Flex, 05 August 2014 - 05:18 PM.

[golden1]

so close analogs are neurotoxic, don't know the metabolism or synthesis impurities, i ordered this when i was drunk :/ 

 

looks okay if it turns out to be safe

[Flex]

Regarding mmp-9 , as posted above:

 

MMP9: a novel function in synaptic plasticity.

Matrix metalloproteinase-9 (MMP-9), an extracellularly acting, Zn²⁺-dependent endopeptidase is a subject to complex regulation at the level of transcription, mRNA dendritic translocation, and local translation as well as protein activation, as it is released extracellularly in a latent, pro-form with the enzymatic site covered by a propeptide that has to be cleaved off to reveal the activity. In neurons, MMP-9 is present at the postsynaptic domains of excitatory synapses. Here, we review the role of MMP-9 in induction of structural dendritic spine modifications and in synaptic plasticity. In particular, we focus on local translation, activity-dependent secretion and activation of MMP-9 leading to its role in long term potentiation and regulation of remodeling of dendritic spines.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22326910

 

This inhibition can be also achieved via Baicalein, which is present in Scutellaria baicalensis

 

Effect of baicalin on matrix metalloproteinase-9 expression and blood-brain barrier permeability following focal cerebral ischemia in rats.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21678122

 

Btw: I´ve found this abstract above in Metagenes thread

http://www.longecity...r-permeability/

[Metagene]

Cool thanks Flex! Baicalin was already on my wishlist.

[medicineman]

Cool thanks Flex! Baicalin was already on my wishlist.

too bad it's not very bioavailable

Edited by medicineman, 06 August 2014 - 04:58 AM.

[Metagene]

 

Cool thanks Flex! Baicalin was already on my wishlist.

too bad it's not very bioavailable

 

 

 Borneol bro. 

 

A word to the wise: be very careful when taking 9-me-BC with stimulants. I took 30mg of adderall at 4:00 am then 6 hours later took a reduced dose (25mg) of 9-me-BC and still felt a little loopy for 10-15 minutes before leveling off. 

[golden1]

its an maoi.. so, makes sense.

[Flex]

too bad it's not very bioavailable

 

 

Thanks for noticing.

The bioavailability is 2.2%

http://www.ncbi.nlm....92/#!po=65.3846

 

Well afaik in this case, buying a pure Baicalein extract could counter this problem.

 

http://www.alibaba.c...1342156384.html

And Major Legend could have some advice how to buy it safetly in china.

 

Btw:

The effects of four flavonoids in SbE, scutellarin, baicalin, baicalein and wogonin, were determined, and data showed that baicalein and wogonin significantly inhibited MCF-7 cell growth. In contrast, in certain concentrations, scutellarin and baicalin increased cancer cell growth

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19836937
 

If You ask me, I dont care that much about this.

Because I´m dont planning to use it long-termed. 

Edited by Flex, 06 August 2014 - 04:50 PM.

[Metagene]

its an maoi.. so, makes sense.

 

Yeah pretty dumb in retrospect but I underestimated the potency. 

[nightlight]

Unsurprisingly, the ancient medicinal plant tobacco is the richest natural source of beta-carbolines, delivering per one full flavor cigarette over 12 times the dose one gets from a liter of darkest brewed coffee (the next highest natural source). Coincidentally, tobacco smoke is also strongly protective against Parkinson's (reducing the rates of early onset Parkinson's 12 times among the heaviest smokers), which is probably what inspired this line of research into the protective effects of beta-carbolines on dopaminergic neurons.

Edited by nightlight, 06 August 2014 - 06:58 PM.

[golden1]

I've taken 25mg two days and 50mg once. I don't notice any negatives.

 

Acute effects: Makes things feel smoother and calm. I've tried Syrian rue awhile ago and it reminds me vaguely of the way that felt. I would say it is easier to enjoy the moment on it and I feel less rushed.

I'm guessing this is at least partially from maoi inhibition? it doesn't feel like deprenyl really at all, so possibly stronger mao-a inhibition.

 

Wish I had some idea how strong and long the maoi effects are around those dosages. Could be dangerous with some foods if it is strong enough.

[golden1]

also it smells/looks exactly like DMT, makes sense I guess.

Edited by golden1, 11 August 2014 - 03:04 AM.

[golden1]

should be able to edit posts here.

 

http://pubs.rsc.org/...4k#!divAbstract

 

"Mechanisms of DNA damage by photoexcited 9-methyl-β-carbolines"

 

should I not be in the sun with this? does anyone know the halflife? lol

 

edit: http://www.sciencedi...011134414000384

same applies to harmine and therefore syrian rue, interesting

 

Beta-carbolines also seem to be leads for anti-cancer drugs according to a study I found, so not sure overall

Edited by golden1, 11 August 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[Flex]

I've taken 25mg two days and 50mg once. I don't notice any negatives.

 

Acute effects: Makes things feel smoother and calm. I've tried Syrian rue awhile ago and it reminds me vaguely of the way that felt. I would say it is easier to enjoy the moment on it and I feel less rushed.

I'm guessing this is at least partially from maoi inhibition? it doesn't feel like deprenyl really at all, so possibly stronger mao-a inhibition.

 

Wish I had some idea how strong and long the maoi effects are around those dosages. Could be dangerous with some foods if it is strong enough.

 

That could be caused by Nurr1 activation. See my post above.

 

Admittedly its quite hard to distinguish its effects of mao-inhibition from a supposed increase in Vmat2

(if there arent not other effects that could be taken in account + the, for me unknown, potency for Nurr1/Vmat2),

when perhaps nobody ever had experined an increase in vmat2.

Since there are afaik only pharmacological and Natural inhibitors aviable and nobody could describe therefore the opposite.

Edited by Flex, 11 August 2014 - 06:35 AM.

[golden1]

 

I've taken 25mg two days and 50mg once. I don't notice any negatives.

 

Acute effects: Makes things feel smoother and calm. I've tried Syrian rue awhile ago and it reminds me vaguely of the way that felt. I would say it is easier to enjoy the moment on it and I feel less rushed.

I'm guessing this is at least partially from maoi inhibition? it doesn't feel like deprenyl really at all, so possibly stronger mao-a inhibition.

 

Wish I had some idea how strong and long the maoi effects are around those dosages. Could be dangerous with some foods if it is strong enough.

 

That could be caused by Nurr1 activation. See my post above.

 

Admittedly its quite hard to distinguish its effects of mao-inhibition from a supposed increase in Vmat2

(if there arent not other effects that could be taken in account + the, for me unknown, potency for Nurr1/Vmat2),

when perhaps nobody ever had experined an increase in vmat2.

Since there are afaik only pharmacological and Natural inhibitors aviable and nobody could describe therefore the opposite.

 

 

looked up what doses harmaline is used with DMT as an mao-a inhibitor,

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Pharmahuasca

 

"For pharmahuasca, 50 mg N,N-DMT and 100 mg harmaline is usually the recommended dosage per person. However, combinations of 50 mg harmaline, 50 mg harmine, and 50 mg, N,N-DMT have also been tested with success. "

 

so, that gives some idea what amount to expect mao-a inhibition at, unless they are completely different potency.

 

Now I want to take it with some DMT :P

 

nurr1 looks cool, wish there was more info to infer the potencies from.

[tjcbs]

Unsurprisingly, the ancient medicinal plant tobacco is the richest natural source of beta-carbolines, delivering per one full flavor cigarette over 12 times the dose one gets from a liter of darkest brewed coffee (the next highest natural source). Coincidentally, tobacco smoke is also strongly protective against Parkinson's (reducing the rates of early onset Parkinson's 12 times among the heaviest smokers), which is probably what inspired this line of research into the protective effects of beta-carbolines on dopaminergic neurons.

 

How do you get that? The study says 207–2780 NG/cigarette, and 29–207 MCG/liter of coffee.

[Flex]

 

 

I've taken 25mg two days and 50mg once. I don't notice any negatives.

 

Acute effects: Makes things feel smoother and calm. I've tried Syrian rue awhile ago and it reminds me vaguely of the way that felt. I would say it is easier to enjoy the moment on it and I feel less rushed.

I'm guessing this is at least partially from maoi inhibition? it doesn't feel like deprenyl really at all, so possibly stronger mao-a inhibition.

 

Wish I had some idea how strong and long the maoi effects are around those dosages. Could be dangerous with some foods if it is strong enough.

 

That could be caused by Nurr1 activation. See my post above.

 

Admittedly its quite hard to distinguish its effects of mao-inhibition from a supposed increase in Vmat2

(if there arent not other effects that could be taken in account + the, for me unknown, potency for Nurr1/Vmat2),

when perhaps nobody ever had experined an increase in vmat2.

Since there are afaik only pharmacological and Natural inhibitors aviable and nobody could describe therefore the opposite.

 

 

looked up what doses harmaline is used with DMT as an mao-a inhibitor,

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Pharmahuasca

 

"For pharmahuasca, 50 mg N,N-DMT and 100 mg harmaline is usually the recommended dosage per person. However, combinations of 50 mg harmaline, 50 mg harmine, and 50 mg, N,N-DMT have also been tested with success. "

 

so, that gives some idea what amount to expect mao-a inhibition at, unless they are completely different potency.

 

Now I want to take it with some DMT :P

 

nurr1 looks cool, wish there was more info to infer the potencies from.

 

 

Afaik, you could try higher doses of Passionflower too (Its a Mao a inhibitor)

[nightlight]

 

Unsurprisingly, the ancient medicinal plant tobacco is the richest natural source of beta-carbolines, delivering per one full flavor cigarette over 12 times the dose one gets from a liter of darkest brewed coffee (the next highest natural source). Coincidentally, tobacco smoke is also strongly protective against Parkinson's (reducing the rates of early onset Parkinson's 12 times among the heaviest smokers), which is probably what inspired this line of research into the protective effects of beta-carbolines on dopaminergic neurons.

 

How do you get that? The study says 207–2780 NG/cigarette, and 29–207 MCG/liter of coffee.

 

 

Sorry, I misspoke there. I must have been thinking of quantity per unit weight instead of per cigarette as misstated earlier (1 cigarette ~ 1g tobacco, 1 liter ~ 1000g of coffee beverage). Note also that effective quantities are not comparable in any simple way by weight since delivery mechanisms are quite different -- while beta-carbolines from tobacco smoke go directly from lungs into arterial blood and reach brain within seconds, those from coffee or foods go through digestive system first and thus have far lower effective dose and much slower delivery & feedback (which is essential for optimal self-dosing and pacing of delivery). Coincidentally, both coffee drinking and tobacco smoking are protective against Parkinson's, with smoking having a more pronounced protective effect (epidemiologically at least).

[noot_in_the_sky]

How would someone use 9-me-BC?

 

Do you cycle it something like 2wks on it, and 2 wks on stims?

Or

5 days on stims and the weekends 9-me-BC?

Or

Half of the week on it & the other half on stims?

Or

Taking both together to prevent tolerance?

 

Also would I still see some of the benefits if I use it together with Selegiline (selegiline @ 2.5mg/d)?

[serp777]

Yay for voluntary human guinea pigs 

[Flex]

 

 

Unsurprisingly, the ancient medicinal plant tobacco is the richest natural source of beta-carbolines, delivering per one full flavor cigarette over 12 times the dose one gets from a liter of darkest brewed coffee (the next highest natural source). Coincidentally, tobacco smoke is also strongly protective against Parkinson's (reducing the rates of early onset Parkinson's 12 times among the heaviest smokers), which is probably what inspired this line of research into the protective effects of beta-carbolines on dopaminergic neurons.

 

How do you get that? The study says 207–2780 NG/cigarette, and 29–207 MCG/liter of coffee.

 

 

Sorry, I misspoke there. I must have been thinking of quantity per unit weight instead of per cigarette as misstated earlier (1 cigarette ~ 1g tobacco, 1 liter ~ 1000g of coffee beverage). Note also that effective quantities are not comparable in any simple way by weight since delivery mechanisms are quite different -- while beta-carbolines from tobacco smoke go directly from lungs into arterial blood and reach brain within seconds, those from coffee or foods go through digestive system first and thus have far lower effective dose and much slower delivery & feedback (which is essential for optimal self-dosing and pacing of delivery). Coincidentally, both coffee drinking and tobacco smoking are protective against Parkinson's, with smoking having a more pronounced protective effect (epidemiologically at least).

 

 

Are You sure that certainly 9-me-BC is contained in cigarette smoke and coffee and that this is present in such quantities, to increase Neuroprotection against e.g Parkinson ?
Because there are various forms of beta carbolines

Edited by Flex, 13 August 2014 - 01:19 PM.