390 replies to this topic

[macropsia]

I realize you may not be serious, but taking a gram dosage is almost certainly a bad idea. Also, has anyone noticed any lingering positive effects after discontinuation, or during the off period of a cycle?

[Nemo888]

Couldn't you get the same effect from low dose naltrexone in a much safer fashion? It's been shown IIRC that by blocking with naltrexone new neurons grow to meet demand.

[macropsia]

I don't think ldn is neurogenic per se, though hypothesized to increase either receptor expression or production of endorphins. I think the latter may have experimental validation.

[Area-1255]

I don't think ldn is neurogenic per se, though hypothesized to increase either receptor expression or production of endorphins. I think the latter may have experimental validation.

After or before your sex hormones shut down from excess endorphins?  

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You want to at least keep the k-opioid receptors blocked fairly frequently, you don't need naltrexone to do this. 

Nociceptin is the most powerful pain relieving opiate receptor that is absent of any psychoactive effect....

U-opioid tends to depress the nervous system, and k - opioid tends to cause sex hormone disruption....

Delta-opioids have some beneficial effects. However, they also inhibit GABA activity, and can cause overexcitation and seizures at high activation amounts - this is likely to be short-circuited when u-opioids are also activated though....

J Neurophysiol. 2002 Nov;88(5):2675-83.

 

Activation of delta-opioid receptors excites spinally projecting locus coeruleus neurons through inhibition of GABAergic inputs.

Pan YZ1, Li DP, Chen SR, Pan HL.

Author information

 

Abstract

Stimulation of the noradrenergic nucleus locus coeruleus (LC) releases norepinephrine in the spinal cord, which inhibits dorsal horn neurons and produces analgesia. Activation of this descending noradrenergic pathway also contributes to the analgesic action produced by systemic opioids. The delta-opioid receptors are present presynaptically in the LC. However, their functional role in the control of the activity of spinally projecting LC neurons remains uncertain. In this study, we tested the hypothesis that activation of presynaptic delta-opioid receptors excites spinally projecting LC neurons through inhibition of GABA release. Spinally projecting LC neurons were retrogradely labeled by a fluorescent dye, DiI, injected into the spinal dorsal horn of rats. Whole cell voltage- and current-clamp recordings were performed on DiI-labeled LC neurons in brain slices in vitro. Retrogradely labeled LC noradrenergic neurons were demonstrated by dopamine-beta-hydroxylase immunofluorescence. [D-Pen(2), D-Pen(5)]-enkephalin (DPDPE, 1 microM) significantly decreased the frequency of GABA-mediated miniature inhibitory postsynaptic currents (IPSCs) of nine DiI-labeled LC neurons from 2.1 +/- 0.5 to 0.7 +/- 0.2 Hz without altering their amplitude and the kinetics. On the other hand, the miniature excitatory postsynaptic currents (EPSC) of nine DiI-labeled LC neurons were not significantly altered by DPDPE. Furthermore, DPDPE significantly inhibited the amplitude of evoked IPSC but not EPSC in eight DiI-labeled LC neurons. Under the current-clamp condition, the firing activity in 9 of 11 DiI-labeled LC neurons was significantly increased by 1 microM DPDPE from 4.6 +/- 0.7 to 6.2 +/- 1.0 Hz. Bicuculline (20 microM) also significantly increased the firing frequency in 13 of 20 neurons from 1.8 +/- 0.5 to 2.8 +/- 0.6 Hz. Additionally, the excitatory effect of DPDPE on LC neurons was diminished in the presence of bicuculline. Collectively, these data strongly suggest that activation of presynaptic delta-opioid receptors by DPDPE excites a population of spinally projecting LC neurons by preferential inhibition of GABA release. Thus presynaptic delta-opioid receptors likely play an important role in the regulation of the excitability of spinally projecting LC neurons and the descending noradrenergic inhibitory system.

 

 

Edited by Area-1255, 04 December 2014 - 06:00 AM.

[Flex]

I thought that Mu opioid are responsible for the gabaergic dis-inhibition.

Thats is afaik the reason why Kratom isnt that much addictive because of the stronger delta agonsim and much weaker mu agonism

[Area-1255]

I thought that Mu opioid are responsible for the gabaergic dis-inhibition.
Thats is afaik the reason why Kratom isnt that much addictive because of the stronger delta agonsim and much weaker mu agonism

Yes, mu-opioids are very CNS depressing for that reason. Delta does inhibit GABA, but interestingly, also inhibits norep slightly.

[rikelme]

Has anyone taking the compound thought of doing the before & after MRI of the substantia nigra?

[Steve Zissou]

Finally got around to taking this substance and I'm impressed. Took a 15mg dose sublingually in the afternoon and felt motivated all day. It's the evening now and I'm still feeling stimulated. I know I have very low dopamine however, so whether or not this works for you probably hinges on this fact.

 

Will post an update tomorrow to see if the effect persists.

[Flex]

I´m glad that there are finally any comments on 9-me-BC. I guess I will try it too eventually.

Btw: I had great results in regards to concetration and cognition with Rhemania glutinosa ~3 grams per dose

It increases afaik GDNF in the mid brain, so the effects could be perhaps to this attributed. But dont mix it with coffeine, even not on the day after.

 

 

 

I thought that Mu opioid are responsible for the gabaergic dis-inhibition.
Thats is afaik the reason why Kratom isnt that much addictive because of the stronger delta agonsim and much weaker mu agonism

Yes, mu-opioids are very CNS depressing for that reason. Delta does inhibit GABA, but interestingly, also inhibits norep slightly.

 

 

The effects of delta on norep could be interresting for my chronic insomnia. Thanks

[Area-1255]

I´m glad that there are finally any comments on 9-me-BC. I guess I will try it too eventually.

Btw: I had great results in regards to concetration and cognition with Rhemania glutinosa ~3 grams per dose

It increases afaik GDNF in the mid brain, so the effects could be perhaps to this attributed. But dont mix it with coffeine, even not on the day after.

 

 

 

I thought that Mu opioid are responsible for the gabaergic dis-inhibition.
Thats is afaik the reason why Kratom isnt that much addictive because of the stronger delta agonsim and much weaker mu agonism

Yes, mu-opioids are very CNS depressing for that reason. Delta does inhibit GABA, but interestingly, also inhibits norep slightly.

 

 

The effects of delta on norep could be interresting for my chronic insomnia. Thanks

The compound really becomes beautiful in combination with pitolisant, it seems.

[AlexxxB]

Just curious to read more on peoples feelings on this ,so far nothing about sexual experiences if any or changes in libido etc?

 

Trying to order now 2 packs to Japan from the THT website however it wouldn't allow me to chose more than one container and kept getting an error message where some stars popped up on the item and it said this means that its not available or not available in this amount.

 

Anyone else get this with an international order?

 

[oppenheimer82]

Finally got around to taking this substance and I'm impressed. Took a 15mg dose sublingually in the afternoon and felt motivated all day. It's the evening now and I'm still feeling stimulated. I know I have very low dopamine however, so whether or not this works for you probably hinges on this fact.

 

Will post an update tomorrow to see if the effect persists.

what about libido, motivation, mental energy?

[Area-1255]

 

Finally got around to taking this substance and I'm impressed. Took a 15mg dose sublingually in the afternoon and felt motivated all day. It's the evening now and I'm still feeling stimulated. I know I have very low dopamine however, so whether or not this works for you probably hinges on this fact.

 

Will post an update tomorrow to see if the effect persists.

what about libido, motivation, mental energy?

 

I find that there is a strong aphrodisiac effect as you continuously take it, about a week in ...it's almost like a dopaminergic but with more euphoria and stimulation - kinda like adderall.

[AlexxxB]

Damn just my luck , now out of stock. Is there anywhere else to buy this ? I wonder how long they will be out ...

[daimewaku]

I've been taking it for about a month now - it's been very therapeutic and I hope that long term it will be helpful in conjunction with NSI-189. I had experienced PTSD back in 2010, after that it's been a struggle to get back to what I call "normal." Those two supplements give me hope that things will get better, soon.

 

[Area-1255]

I've been taking it for about a month now - it's been very therapeutic and I hope that long term it will be helpful in conjunction with NSI-189. I had experienced PTSD back in 2010, after that it's been a struggle to get back to what I call "normal." Those two supplements give me hope that things will get better, soon.

Love the input, keep going !

[Steve Zissou]

I haven't taken any for 4 days - yet the stimulation persists. I vaped a tiny bit of marjiuana last night and I felt the high was much stronger and of a longer duration. The only downside so far is that my tinnitus has been far louder than usual, although it has to be said this doesn't really bother me.  I feel more present than usual which is a nice change. Also I feel like my excersise capacity has increased. Very impressed with this compound so far.

[mindpatch]

I haven't taken any for 4 days - yet the stimulation persists. I vaped a tiny bit of marjiuana last night and I felt the high was much stronger and of a longer duration. The only downside so far is that my tinnitus has been far louder than usual, although it has to be said this doesn't really bother me.  I feel more present than usual which is a nice change. Also I feel like my excersise capacity has increased. Very impressed with this compound so far.

Would this be something to take long term or permanently, or as more of a reset or a healing type dosing protocol?

[Steve Zissou]

I can't speak for your first point but I would recommend it for a reset/healing protocol.

[Steve Zissou]

 

#2) I noticed an immediate improvement of general coordination. I have always been clumsy to the extreme, probably due to my attention span. Suddenly I was able to multitask with my hands without thinking about it. By about day 3 my tremor disappeared. I have noticed much more 'body awareness' lately. When I close my eyes I no longer feel unstable. When I sing I can feel the vibration and can sense when I am on key(very rarely lol). I get tingles and goose bumps when I listen to music or see something cool. These things are all new to me. I am kind of shocked at the improvement

 

 

Strangely I have had the same effect on my voice. It's deeper than usual and I notice more 'reverberation', a interesting side effect. Tying in with the similarities made to nofap by another poster, I have heard reports of the same thing happening when addicts abstained from porn. I initially thought that was because of increased testosterone, but now I'm not sure sure. Perhaps dopamine is linked to testosterone somehow.

[Steve Zissou]

Since this is a Mao inhibitor, does that mean you shouldn't eat diary while using this substance?

[Area-1255]

Since this is a Mao inhibitor, does that mean you shouldn't eat diary while using this substance?

Cheese mainly, although, The so-called "cheese effect" varies amongst individuals, I've combined 2 potent MAOI's with cheese before and it was just like a storm of weird anxiety - then I crashed, so you just gotta be careful, also, its freezing out, and I was feeling like a volcano without the heat on!

 

Be careful, I'm less sensitive , but you...you might have it worse!

[Flex]

As far as I know, its just in the case of irreversible mao-a inhibition.

Taking Passionflower, which is a mao-a or high doses of rhodiola rosea which would then occupy ca. 90% of the mao a+b, shouldnt (again, afaik) interfere with tyramine from cheese, or with pineapple & etc

[Area-1255]

As far as I know, its just in the case of irreversible mao-a inhibition.

Taking Passionflower, which is a mao-a or high doses of rhodiola rosea which would then occupy ca. 90% of the mao a+b, shouldnt (again, afaik) interfere with tyramine from cheese, or with pineapple & etc

That's true, and the only way you are only unlikely to have this cheese effect , or from irreversible inhibition, is if your norepinephrine and serotonin is already SHOT, in that case, the extra levels of them , wouldn't be extra at all...you'd feel on the top of the world - like amphetamines.

 

Always, ALWAYS understand the pathology of the enzyme or neurotransmitter substrate in question, MAO does sort of have preference in certain areas...and genetics are going to determine what any sustained increase are going to mean.....if you have either the worrier or warrior MAO gene variant - I would be careful about using MAO inhibitors because you are amplifying those traits by taking the same mechanism.

 

Likewise, using MAO inhibitors long-term would give you a similar biology to one with the warrior/worrier gene, depending on other aspects of your genetics.

Edited by Area-1255, 16 December 2014 - 05:18 PM.

[Flex]

Hats off. Nice informations btw. didnt know the worrior varaiant:

http://www.mindandmu...rior-vs-worrior

http://www.cnsspectr...x?articleid=642

[Area-1255]

Hats off. Nice informations btw. didnt know the worrior varaiant:

http://www.mindandmu...rior-vs-worrior

http://www.cnsspectr...x?articleid=642

I have the warrior gene, m8.

[daimewaku]

The cheese-effect that's talked about, I've never experienced and I do a lot of cooking and baking with cheeses. I've upped my dose to 90mg a day - with NSI, I genuinely feel back to "normal". I took about 5 days off last week and didn't even wake up with the negative internal dialog. I hope that I won't have to be dependent on these to thrive but I'm dependent on food and water to live too, so as long as there aren't any negative sides, I'll keep on "truckin'" with this therapeutic route.

In the past, I've had to go skydiving or something extreme 2 weekends a month just to quiet myself internally so-to-speak - I still truly love the sport of jumping from planes but now I can enjoy other things, simple things like just watching a river flow. From an outside perspective skydiving may seem fantastic but internally I was in a panic to do what I could to feel alive - to live life. Now I'm focused at work, got a new HOT lady and being organized is a lot easier.

 

Other noots that I take are: Phenylpiracetam and Sunifram (occasionally). Used to be a lot more until I started with the 9-me-BC/NSI-189 combo.

[Milkyway]

Sounds like it is working well for you.  May I ask from whom you are getting your 9-me-bc and NSI 189 from?  Because it sounds like they are the genuine thing and I would like to buy mine from the same supplier.  Currently I get my 9-me-bc from THT and my NSI 189 from TLR. 

[daimewaku]

I acquired them from THT as well.

[Area-1255]

I acquired them from THT as well.

What do you think of them, in general?