13 replies to this topic

[shifter]

I remember reading here that people were saying K2 MK7 was toxic in high doses (eg taking 1mg/day) It was part of the huge flame wars between which was better - MK4 and MK7

 

But this article here suggests otherwise. 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3172146/

 

I take approx 120mcg per day from 'Natures Plus'. An article on Mercola suggets that if I take 8000IU of vitamin D I should be taking 800-1000mcg of K2

 

http://articles.merc...vitamin-k2.aspx

 

 

I am wondering how effective or necessary it is to take a dose that large. What bothers me about Mercola is how expensive his products usually are and how much money he makes to say and endorse the things he does. I believe his main motivation is financial on many things.

 

So he is recommending to take 8000IU of Vitamin D a day (I have no problem with that amount, I have 10000IU supplements which I take 1 several days a week). But then I am supposed to take 1mg K2 each time as well? That would at the very least cost a small fortune. Vitamin D3 is cheap. K2 is not. The other thing is Vitamin D3 hangs around the body far far longer than K2 anyway.

 

120mcg is much more K2 then anybody with a western style diet has any day. So is Mercola right that 1mg is the way to go, or should I be happy with my 120mcg dose per day regardless of my Vitamin D3 intake. I see he does sell Vitamin K2 and is priced pretty high compared with many other reputable and good quality brands. (His is probably one of them rebranded anyway).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dolph]

One thing is for sure, Mercola is NEVER right...

 

I can't see any evidence that 1mg MK-7 would be "toxic" in any way but I also think that one has to have a very good reason to supplement an unphysiological dose like that. It's expensive AND there are still quite many unknowns.

[pamojja]

At Track your Plaque there is one member who - after going carefully through all the evidence - came to the conclusion that Ks are crucial with CAD. After taking some 10 mg of K2-mk7 for some time from bulk purchases himself, and a growing demand from other TYP members, placed an own product on the market:

 

http://www.k-vitamins.com/

 

SUPPLEMENT FACTS:

SERVING SIZE:  1 or 2 Capsules Daily with Fatty Foods or Milk

SERVINGS PER CONTAINER:  60

 

INGREDIENTS

AMOUNT PER SERVING

%RDA

 

Vitamin K2 (MK-4)
(Menaquinone 4)

25 mg

***

 

Vitamin K1
(Phylloquinone)

5 mg

6,250%

 

Vitamin K2 (MK-7)
(Menaquinone 7)

0.5 mg

***

 

Astaxanthin
(from Haematococcus pluvialis extract)

5 mg

***

 

 *** Daily Value Not Established

 

May contain: grape seed extract, soy or soy byproducts (natto powder), wheat, plant starches, gelatin, artificial colors, preservatives.

 

Price: $45.00

Edited by pamojja, 27 May 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[Dolph]

There is not so much eveidence he can have gone through after all...

 

[pamojja]

There is not so much eveidence he can have gone through after all...

 

 

Certainly more evidence referenced at his side as you could have read through in the 4 minutes since my post.

[Dolph]

I know the evidence very well! Most of it is either pretty much useless epidemiological work or has no relevance for CVD anyway.

There is defininetely NO evidence whatsoever for using 10mg(!) of MK-7 every day. That's just pure stupidity and speculation. And that's not a good mix in most cases...

Edited by Dolph, 27 May 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[dannee]

I know the evidence very well! Most of it is either pretty much useless epidemiological work or has no relevance for CVD anyway.

There is defininetely NO evidence whatsoever for using 10mg(!) of MK-7 every day. That's just pure stupidity and speculation. And that's not a good mix in most cases...

 

agree totally good looking out

[pamojja]

Well, to put it in his words:

 

 

Simply put, I did not want to die.

 

If that's stupidity to you, I prefer to be stupid and alive, then to know it all.

[Dolph]

Swallowing random pills won't prolong your life, that's for sure...

[niner]

Some observations: 

 

Everything is toxic at some dose.

 

Mercola is, to put it charitably, an unreliable source.

 

The Mega K preparation mentioned above has only 500 mcg of MK7, not multiple milligrams.

 

Everything you know about the behavior of a vitamin at normal dietary dosage goes right out the window when you take pharmacologic doses.

[Darryl]

K2 Mk7 appears nontoxic at the highest doses given in a mouse toxicity evaluation. Using the EPA's dosimetric adjustment factor of 0.14, the mouse 2000 mg/kg acute dose scales to 19.6 g in a single dose for a 70 kg human, while the mouse 10 mg/kg no observed adverse effect level (chronic dose) scales to 98 mg / day for the same human.

 

As of the 2004 WHO report,

 

When taken orally, natural K vitamins seem free of toxic side effects. This apparent safety is bourne out by the common clinical administration of phylloquinone at doses of 10–20 mg or greater. Some patients with chronic fat malabsorption regularly ingest doses of this size without evidence of any harm. However, synthetic preparations of menadione (K3) or its salts are best avoided for nutritional purposes, especially for vitamin prophylaxis in neonates. Besides lacking intrinsic biological activity, the high reactivity of its unsubstituted 3-position has been associated with neonatal haemolysis and liver damage.

 

[Blankspace]

Not related to toxicity, but this paper gives some insight as to what doses will provide a noticeable change in ucOC, cOC, and dp-ucMGP levels.
It looks at the effects of 0, 10, 20, 45, 90, 180, and 360 micrograms of K2-MK7 over a 12 week period.

The full text is available for free.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22289649

[mustardseed41]

Mercola is right sometimes and wrong often. $45 for a K2 supp? Hail no. I'll stick to my Vitacost or LEF with 200 mcg MK7.

[pamojja]

 $45 for a K2 supp?

 

For members of TYP or HLT forums is a discount code published there (which makes it more affordable than Relentless Improvement's 15mg Menatrenone). The later forum is free for signing up.
 

Edited by pamojja, 27 May 2014 - 07:33 PM.