210 replies to this topic

[mikey]

I tracked down the elusive beast:

 

(Photo deleted)

 

Cleary (pun intended) its clear and plastic.  In theory, this would be even better to use than the tinted version, yes?

 

I may have to try the tinted version for eatin' and see if its now tolerable.  The value proposition is just too great.

 

Unfortunately, Costco changed from a green tinted glass bottle to plastic. 

We don't want to use plastic bottles because of BPAs, etc...

I sent Costco a note complaining.

Attached is a photo of the last bottle of it in glass that I have.

Attached Files

•  Costco EVOO in glass bottle.JPG   273.64KB   11 downloads

Edited by mikey, 28 December 2014 - 02:32 AM.

[pone11]

I bought the SES research C60 + OO.   After sitting in the refrigerator for a week it is forming a solid gel that never migrates to the top of the canister when I turn it upside down.   Is that expected?   We are not supposed to refrigerate C60+OO during normal use?

 

I should just let it warm to room temperature and start to use it without mixing it or shaking?

[Invariant]

I bought the SES research C60 + OO.   After sitting in the refrigerator for a week it is forming a solid gel that never migrates to the top of the canister when I turn it upside down.   Is that expected?   We are not supposed to refrigerate C60+OO during normal use?

 

I should just let it warm to room temperature and start to use it without mixing it or shaking?

 

Olive oil by itself tends to form clumps when stored in the fridge. Apparently certain parts of the oil become solid at a different temperature than others. Olive oil has pretty good shelf life in a cool and dark place outside of the fridge, so that's where I'd store it.

[pleb]

Novotropic is right don't keep it in a fridge just in a dark cupboard. it changes colour when it's mixed so it does need shaking or use a magnetic stirer as some have done.

[APBT]

RevGenetics now carries c60-oo:  http://www.revgeneti...l-solution.aspx

[sthira]

And for what it's worth, SES now sells 99.99% purity. Anyone tried it?

https://sesres.com/Carbon-60.asp

[niner]

And for what it's worth, SES now sells 99.99% purity. Anyone tried it?

 

195 bucks a gram...  The funny thing is, we don't actually know if c70 olive oil is a good thing, a bad thing, or neutral.  Turnbuckle had a bad experience that he ascribed (at least perhaps) as due to c70.  On the other hand, there are some very cool compounds out of Luna that are c70-based.  My last purchase was 5g of 99.0%, because (at the time, anyway) I thought maybe the anti-eczema magic I was seeking came from c70.  Haven't used it yet.

[Turnbuckle]

I bought the SES research C60 + OO.   After sitting in the refrigerator for a week it is forming a solid gel that never migrates to the top of the canister when I turn it upside down.   Is that expected?   We are not supposed to refrigerate C60+OO during normal use?

 

I should just let it warm to room temperature and start to use it without mixing it or shaking?

 

Don't store it in the fridge. If you're going to use it up in a few months, that's not necessary and results in separation. For longer storage or for storage of a second bottle, put it in the freezer.

 

I understand that SES doesn't use the same method as the paper. That may not be important, but it adds in another unknown.

[niner]

I understand that SES doesn't use the same method as the paper. That may not be important, but it adds in another unknown.

 

Any idea how they're doing it?  I have a feeling that Vaughter and Carbon60oliveoil aren't doing it the same as the paper either.  At least I hope they aren't centrifuging.  That's pointless.  There are lots of ways things could be altered, like micronization, ultrasound, or heating.  The fraction of dienes in the olive oil is another variable.

[mikey]

 

I bought the SES research C60 + OO.   After sitting in the refrigerator for a week it is forming a solid gel that never migrates to the top of the canister when I turn it upside down.   Is that expected?   We are not supposed to refrigerate C60+OO during normal use?

 

I should just let it warm to room temperature and start to use it without mixing it or shaking?

 

Don't store it in the fridge. If you're going to use it up in a few months, that's not necessary and results in separation. For longer storage or for storage of a second bottle, put it in the freezer.

 

I understand that SES doesn't use the same method as the paper. That may not be important, but it adds in another unknown.

 

 

Does separation from freezing alter the C60 anti-aging effects we seek? Once it is thawed doesn't it work as it should?

[mikey]

 

I understand that SES doesn't use the same method as the paper. That may not be important, but it adds in another unknown.

 

Any idea how they're doing it?  I have a feeling that Vaughter and Carbon60oliveoil aren't doing it the same as the paper either.  At least I hope they aren't centrifuging.  That's pointless.  There are lots of ways things could be altered, like micronization, ultrasound, or heating.  The fraction of dienes in the olive oil is another variable.

 

 

I'm unsure of VW's product. I used it and the crinkles around my eyes started deepening after about a month.

 

When I switched back to Carbon's product, which I had been using since August, 2012, within about a month the crinkles started melting.

 

This isn't any kind of controlled experiment, but I see a distinct difference in my skin being on Carbon's product.

 

No question in my mind, so I'm willing to pay his higher price.

[Turnbuckle]

 

I understand that SES doesn't use the same method as the paper. That may not be important, but it adds in another unknown.

 

Any idea how they're doing it?  I have a feeling that Vaughter and Carbon60oliveoil aren't doing it the same as the paper either.  At least I hope they aren't centrifuging.  That's pointless.  There are lots of ways things could be altered, like micronization, ultrasound, or heating.  The fraction of dienes in the olive oil is another variable.

 

 

According to smithx, they are using ultrasound to speed it up.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

I understand that SES doesn't use the same method as the paper. That may not be important, but it adds in another unknown.

 

Any idea how they're doing it?  I have a feeling that Vaughter and Carbon60oliveoil aren't doing it the same as the paper either.  At least I hope they aren't centrifuging.  That's pointless.  There are lots of ways things could be altered, like micronization, ultrasound, or heating.  The fraction of dienes in the olive oil is another variable.

 

 

I'm unsure of VW's product. I used it and the crinkles around my eyes started deepening after about a month.

 

When I switched back to Carbon's product, which I had been using since August, 2012, within about a month the crinkles started melting.

 

This isn't any kind of controlled experiment, but I see a distinct difference in my skin being on Carbon's product.

 

No question in my mind, so I'm willing to pay his higher price.

 

 

Someone on LongeCity said applying it to his face made a substantial difference, but I never saw much difference between the homemade product and EVOO sans C60 until I added a couple of caps of astaxanthin (.03 mg/ml) to the C60 mix. And it could be the astaxanthin alone--

 

Cosmetic benefits of astaxanthin on humans subjects.

 

Abstract

 

Two human clinical studies were performed. One was an open-label non-controlled study involving 30 healthy female subjects for 8 weeks. Significant improvements were observed by combining 6 mg per day oral supplementation and 2 ml (78.9 μM solution) per day topical application of astaxanthin. Astaxanthin derived from the microalgae, Haematococcus pluvialis showed improvements in skin wrinkle (crow's feet at week-8), age spot size (cheek at week-8), elasticity (crow's feet at week-8), skin texture (cheek at week-4), moisture content of corneocyte layer (cheek in 10 dry skin subjects at week-8) and corneocyte condition (cheek at week-8). It may suggest that astaxanthin derived from H. pluvialis can improve skin condition in all layers such as corneocyte layer, epidermis, basal layer and dermis by combining oral supplementation and topical treatment. Another was a randomized double-blind placebo controlled study involving 36 healthy male subjects for 6 weeks. Crow's feet wrinkle and elasticity; and transepidermal water loss (TEWL) were improved after 6 mg of astaxanthin (the same as former study) daily supplementation. Moisture content and sebum oil level at the cheek zone showed strong tendencies for improvement. These results suggest that astaxanthin derived from Haematococcus pluvialis may improve the skin condition in not only in women but also in men.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22428137

 

 

 

 

Does separation from freezing alter the C60 anti-aging effects we seek? Once it is thawed doesn't it work as it should?

 

 

I haven't seen a problem with freezing. It happens so quickly that separation is minimal.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 08 June 2015 - 11:03 AM.

[ambivalent]

 

 

I understand that SES doesn't use the same method as the paper. That may not be important, but it adds in another unknown.

 

Any idea how they're doing it?  I have a feeling that Vaughter and Carbon60oliveoil aren't doing it the same as the paper either.  At least I hope they aren't centrifuging.  That's pointless.  There are lots of ways things could be altered, like micronization, ultrasound, or heating.  The fraction of dienes in the olive oil is another variable.

 

 

I'm unsure of VW's product. I used it and the crinkles around my eyes started deepening after about a month.

 

When I switched back to Carbon's product, which I had been using since August, 2012, within about a month the crinkles started melting.

 

This isn't any kind of controlled experiment, but I see a distinct difference in my skin being on Carbon's product.

 

No question in my mind, so I'm willing to pay his higher price.

 

 

Hi Mikey,

 

did you manage confirm the change in alcholic effect of the VW product or just resort back to carbon? 

[ambivalent]

 

And for what it's worth, SES now sells 99.99% purity. Anyone tried it?

 

195 bucks a gram...  The funny thing is, we don't actually know if c70 olive oil is a good thing, a bad thing, or neutral.  Turnbuckle had a bad experience that he ascribed (at least perhaps) as due to c70.  On the other hand, there are some very cool compounds out of Luna that are c70-based.  My last purchase was 5g of 99.0%, because (at the time, anyway) I thought maybe the anti-eczema magic I was seeking came from c70.  Haven't used it yet.

 

 

Well I guess for many 99.99% will come with added placebo!

Edited by ambivalent, 08 June 2015 - 03:05 PM.

[aribadabar]

RevGenetics now carries c60-oo:  http://www.revgeneti...l-solution.aspx

 

They now also offer "RazorOil" .

Any idea if the use of avocado, rosehip seed and wheat germ oils is better for topical delivery of C60 adducts compared to EVOO ones, independent of these oils' reported skin-improving properties while administered on their own?

In other words, are these oils better carriers/reagents with C60 for topical use?

[mikey]

 

 

 

I understand that SES doesn't use the same method as the paper. That may not be important, but it adds in another unknown.

 

Any idea how they're doing it?  I have a feeling that Vaughter and Carbon60oliveoil aren't doing it the same as the paper either.  At least I hope they aren't centrifuging.  That's pointless.  There are lots of ways things could be altered, like micronization, ultrasound, or heating.  The fraction of dienes in the olive oil is another variable.

 

 

I'm unsure of VW's product. I used it and the crinkles around my eyes started deepening after about a month.

 

When I switched back to Carbon's product, which I had been using since August, 2012, within about a month the crinkles started melting.

 

This isn't any kind of controlled experiment, but I see a distinct difference in my skin being on Carbon's product.

 

No question in my mind, so I'm willing to pay his higher price.

 

 

Hi Mikey,

 

did you manage confirm the change in alcholic effect of the VW product or just resort back to carbon? 

 

 

I'll give it another go and be sure to eliminate confounding variables. The trouble right now is I'm experimenting with nootropics and they do have their own effects.

 

Now, even using Carbon's C60 alcohol is having an effect, likely because of effects from the nootropics.

 

I'm so fascinated with them that I don't want to quit taking them for a month and then try VW's C60 after doing a washout.

 

So, I'm still not sure about VW's quality.

[Severian]

A milligram a day is reasonable, but there's no need to take it daily.  You can take 7mg once a week, or 30 (-ish) mgs once a month.  The effects persist for a long time.  Different people have different dosing preferences.  There's no correlation between observed effects and dose, from what I can see.  It looks like low doses are all that are needed to see typical effects, and taking more just makes it last longer.

 

Sorry, I have a really stupid question about dosage. I bought some from carbon60oliveoil.com. It says it is 0.8mg/1ml and comes with a 1ml syringe. Does that mean that for a weekly dose I'd have to take 7 or 8 full syringes worth of it? I don't think I realised I would need to take this much, I thought it would last longer.

[ta5]

Does anyone think it's a bad idea to order an olive oil product during the hottest weeks of the summer? I'm thinking it might be better to wait until September at least.

[sensei]

Does anyone think it's a bad idea to order an olive oil product during the hottest weeks of the summer? I'm thinking it might be better to wait until September at least.

 

 

Olive oil can sit out no problem.  It is not normally refrigerated.

[Turnbuckle]

 

Does anyone think it's a bad idea to order an olive oil product during the hottest weeks of the summer? I'm thinking it might be better to wait until September at least.

 

 

Olive oil can sit out no problem.  It is not normally refrigerated.

 

 

 

Just because people use olive oil in a certain way doesn't mean that this is "no problem". As the Olive Oil Times pointed out, many have become used to degraded oil--“The sad truth is that most people in the US… are accustomed to the flavor of rancid olive oil.” But here we are not interested in the taste of the oil, only its usefulness in a longevity supplement. And since we have no way of knowing how fast the combination degrades, best to use it up rapidly and keep any excess frozen, where it can be expected to last some 16 times longer than at room temperature.

[sensei]

 

 

Does anyone think it's a bad idea to order an olive oil product during the hottest weeks of the summer? I'm thinking it might be better to wait until September at least.

 

 

Olive oil can sit out no problem.  It is not normally refrigerated.

 

 

 

Just because people use olive oil in a certain way doesn't mean that this is "no problem". As the Olive Oil Times pointed out, many have become used to degraded oil--“The sad truth is that most people in the US… are accustomed to the flavor of rancid olive oil.” But here we are not interested in the taste of the oil, only its usefulness in a longevity supplement. And since we have no way of knowing how fast the combination degrades, best to use it up rapidly and keep any excess frozen, where it can be expected to last some 16 times longer than at room temperature.

 

 

It takes at least a year after opening for Olive Oil to go rancid.

 

And I call BS on the "accustomed to the flavor of rancid oil".  I have eaten oil while in Europe and Oil in the US, and bought oil sourced from or bottled in Europe, Australia, Africa (Morroco, Tunisia), and California.

 

I have yet to notice a discernible difference other than the varietal of olives, and type of oil (EVOO, vs VO, vs processed).  So either EVERY bit of Olive Oil I have eaten has been rancid, or the article is F-O-S and is a trade organization's efforts to increase consumption.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

 

Does anyone think it's a bad idea to order an olive oil product during the hottest weeks of the summer? I'm thinking it might be better to wait until September at least.

 

 

Olive oil can sit out no problem.  It is not normally refrigerated.

 

 

 

Just because people use olive oil in a certain way doesn't mean that this is "no problem". As the Olive Oil Times pointed out, many have become used to degraded oil--“The sad truth is that most people in the US… are accustomed to the flavor of rancid olive oil.” But here we are not interested in the taste of the oil, only its usefulness in a longevity supplement. And since we have no way of knowing how fast the combination degrades, best to use it up rapidly and keep any excess frozen, where it can be expected to last some 16 times longer than at room temperature.

 

 

It takes at least a year after opening for Olive Oil to go rancid.

 

And I call BS on the "accustomed to the flavor of rancid oil".  I have eaten oil while in Europe and Oil in the US, and bought oil sourced from or bottled in Europe, Australia, Africa (Morroco, Tunisia), and California.

 

I have yet to notice a discernible difference other than the varietal of olives, and type of oil (EVOO, vs VO, vs processed).  So either EVERY bit of Olive Oil I have eaten has been rancid, or the article is F-O-S and is a trade organization's efforts to increase consumption.

 

 

I have noticed a change in the odor of home brewed C60/EVOO kept on the shelf, and this seems to occur at about 3 months, so now I throw it out before that point, and I keep most of it in the freezer. The rule of thumb is that chemical reactions occur twice as fast for each 10 degree C increase in temp, thus decreasing it 40C--from room temp to freezer temp--should decrease the rate of oxidation by roughly 2^4 = 16 times. 

 

The adducts picked up by C60 can oxidize, as can the C60 itself, and we don't know what effects that will have, or even if a partially oxidized product will degrade the expected results. Certainly the one trial done here with old C60 oil obtained from the original Baati researchers didn't work out as hoped. Without controls, it was impossible to know if the rats lived longer, but they all got cancer, which is worse than the normal rate.

 

Caveman doctor says this--

 

The structure of fats also affects their shelf life. Because polyunsaturated fats are less stable, they tend to break down into oxidized products not just in the pan, but also on the shelf. When exposed to light, oxygen, and even non-cooking temperatures they get oxidized.

 

The converse to this is coconut oil, primarily a saturated fat. It is solid at room temperature due to its stability, and its shelf life is very long, coming in at around 2 years. However, vegetable oils and polyunsaturated oils spoil after only several months and become rancid. Even olive oil, a monounsaturated non-vegetable oil, goes rancid after about 6 months.

 

[kmoody]

Might be slightly off topic, but I'm somewhat distraught that no one seems to have any appropriate QC data for c60oo -- either for homemade versions or from commercial vendors. Is there anyone that is doing routine QC on product or would it be useful to the community if I put one of my interns on optimizing a QC method for routine testing?

Edited by kmoody, 12 July 2015 - 08:35 PM.

[pleb]

I'm not sure C60 itself can undergo oxidation as it is 60 carbon atoms whilst to undergo oxidation it needs an hydrogen atom to become attached so unless it gets that from the olive oil by some way I don't see that happening

[Turnbuckle]

I'm not sure C60 itself can undergo oxidation as it is 60 carbon atoms whilst to undergo oxidation it needs an hydrogen atom to become attached so unless it gets that from the olive oil by some way I don't see that happening

 

 

See this paper--

 

Unsaturated lipids when exposed to air at room temperature undergo a slow autoxidation. When fullerene C(60) was dissolved in selected lipids (ethyl oleate, ethyl linoleate, linseed oil and castor oil) the spectrophotometric analysis shows that the oxidation is concentrated to C(60) which is converted to an epoxide C(60)O.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20338159

 

[pleb]

how's this likely to effect it's action ? the theory of how it works as an antioxidant are that the lipids are stripped off to use as fuel by the mitochondria leaving the C60 outside the mitochondria ?

[Kalliste]

Might be slightly off topic, but I'm somewhat distraught that no one seems to have any appropriate QC data for c60oo -- either for homemade versions or from commercial vendors. Is there anyone that is doing routine QC on product or would it be useful to the community if I put one of my interns on optimizing a QC method for routine testing?

That would be great.

[niner]

how's this likely to effect it's action ? the theory of how it works as an antioxidant are that the lipids are stripped off to use as fuel by the mitochondria leaving the C60 outside the mitochondria ?

 

No, the fatty acid from the olive oil is chemically bonded to the c60.  They don't get used as fuel.  The most likely role that the fatty acid plays is as a membrane anchor that helps to keep c60 located in the mitochondrial (or other) membrane.

 

If c60 is oxidized, for example via epoxide formation, it probably won't have a huge effect on the redox properties of the c60, although they would likely be degraded somewhat.  Generally speaking, the more highly substituted a fullerene is, expressed as a fraction of available carbons used, the less effective it will be as an antioxidant.  An epoxide binds to two adjacent carbon centers, so that leaves a lot of unsubstituted space.

[pleb]

Thanks niner. So the initial epoxide would form as a spur off two carbon atoms on the C60 presumably taking the hydrogen and oxygen atom from the air in the bottle ? (Providing the two additional atoms were orientated correctly) forming a spur off the side of the C60 ?

Edited by pleb, 13 July 2015 - 09:07 PM.