210 replies to this topic

[mikey]

OK here's my response to the most recent comments:

• I don't think KMoody is lying about his HPLC results. He did find another band in the light-exposed C60OO.
• We know that there's evidence that C60 absorbs light and creates free radicals as a result.
• There is a very high likelihood that whatever is being created by light exposure in C60OO is not what we want, whether it is highly carcinogenic or not.
• Even taking C60OO at all is potentially risky and very speculative, since it is based on a single very small study. So maximizing safety is probably a good idea.
• We also know from the original paper that the C60OO used in the study was scrupulously kept in the dark.

 

The prudent thing to do is to make sure that you have the best quality material, and that means that it should be made according to the original specifications, which include keeping it scrupulously in the dark at all times. No manufacturer that I know of promises that this is the case, so it would be imprudent to assume that it is.

 

Where does that leave us (in my opinion)? Either:

 

a) Make it yourself according to the specifications in the paper (keeping it in the dark)

b) Trust that random manufacturers who have not committed to keeping it in the dark are nevertheless doing so

c) Assume that KMoody was lying or that the extra band he found via HPLC is completely harmless

 

Of these, the most prudent seems to be a).

 

Now if there was a manufacturer who did commit to in-the-dark production, perhaps documented it, and shipped the product in bottles that were really light-protective (for example something like Miron Violetglass), it could be more reasonable to trust manufactured C60OO.

 

But for me (someone who just took 15mg of rapamycin yesterday), the risk of buying a potentially toxic product is just not worth the convenience.

 

The fear in this response is out of proportion with the publications that looked for C60 toxicity and rather found benefits or a complete lack of toxicity, even with ultra-high doses.

Similarly, taking C60 is based on considerably more evidence than the single Fathi Moussa study.

 

One that explained how C60 could be made to create toxicity is attached.

Others looked for toxicity and found none or found benefits. Here I list just two. 
 

http://exp-oncology..../2011/11/10.pdf
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jts/37/2/37_2_353/_pdf
 

"Since rapamycin-based therapy suppresses immune function and may cause serious side effects such as thrombocytopenia and hyperlipidemia, impaired wound healing, nephrotoxicity, and altered insulin sensitivity, the safety of long-term use still remains uncertain."
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3972801/ 

With all due respect, rapamycin has much more published data that have inhibited me from experimenting with it. Taking rapamycin, especially over a long term seems considerably more dangerous than taking C60oo that is produced by several vendors that state that they manufacture it in UV-free environments. As well, making it at home simply requires that the mixing takes place without UV exposure.

 

On balance, C60oo has been shown to be considerably safer than rapamycin. 

 

 

.

Attached Files

•  Toxicity Studies of Fullerenes and Derivatives - TOXICITY - HOW IT MIGHT OCCUR.pdf   1.16MB   5 downloads

Edited by mikey, 15 August 2019 - 08:54 PM.

[mikey]

I find the Ichor fear mongering suspicious as well. I believe longecity funded the research, yet kmoody and his team have been withholding the data for literally years now. I haven't been following the threads as closely for quite some time, but it started to remind me of a bad Kickstarter.

I could be completely wrong, but I feel like Niner may have chosen to leave longecity for this very reason. Ichor's drive to produce data that shows c60 is potentially dangerous, so that they would be able to patent and sell a "safe" product, and the lack of opposition toward this by those in charge of longecity. I have no idea if this is accurate, so forgive me Niner for speculating, if you end up reading this at some point, but your presence is certainly missed here.

 

Is anyone on this forum familiar with Niner personally? My impression was the reason he is not on Longecity these days was not explained, which raises a question that of whether it was voluntary.

[amw]

Has anyone heard of Youth Eternal Supreme? They are offering different formulas, including fullerene water solutions. I asked them what the difference was regarding the formula for pets vs that of humans and this is what they wrote back:

 

"We use ARP Tech's energetic imprints on all of our formulas, meaning since all "matter" is energy in a dense form, and what is virtually unknown to general public, but very understood to our scientific team, C60 is capable of retaining certain frequencies only when done in a certain way, which is through our proprietary methods. 

There are particular frequencies that are harmonizing for animals and humans, and certain frequencies that are only harmonizing to animal kingdom, and many times depending upon the kind.

The frequencies used for our PetC60 are solely harmonizing for animals and are not meant for humans. 

This is why we do not recommend it for humans. "

 

!?!

 

[smithx]

"We use ARP Tech's energetic imprints on all of our formulas, meaning since all "matter" is energy in a dense form, and what is virtually unknown to general public, but very understood to our scientific team,

 

 

Pseudoscience. In other words, complete nonsense.

[Cajundragon]

To quote Turnbuckle's summary:

http://www.longecity...e-3#entry785026

 

 
If you're comfortable taking something which appears to cause tumors on the grounds that someone didn't post that their tumor-ridden animals have died, that's up to you. But with the data we have at the moment, it seems very foolhardy to continue taking this stuff.

 

If you do take it, the best course of action would seem to be making it yourself following the study protocol exactly, while keeping it entirely in the dark, then keeping it refrigerated, still in the dark, and taking it immediately after pouring it into a spoon. A regular or amber bottle won't work: use a completely black bottle and/or cover the bottle with two layers of aluminum foil. And wear good sunscreen.

 

But I still wouldn't do it until there's more data.

Both Ben Greenfield & Dave Aspery have had Ian Mitchell on from C360 Health and has been talking C60 up rather aggressively in the last few weeks. Has anything new been discovered since this 2018 thread? I'd love to give it a try but I'm trying to prevent cancer not ingest something that may cause it!

[joesixpack]

Both Ben Greenfield & Dave Aspery have had Ian Mitchell on from C360 Health and has been talking C60 up rather aggressively in the last few weeks. Has anything new been discovered since this 2018 thread? I'd love to give it a try but I'm trying to prevent cancer not ingest something that may cause it!

People have been taking this for many years, and no one has reported cancer. 

 

That should be a good indicator.

 

I still use it. Don't know if the the C60 helps, or the EVOO, but something does. If cancer were an issue it would be all over the place. In my opinion, a false alarm.

[Kalliste]

People have been taking this for many years, and no one has reported cancer. 

 

That should be a good indicator.

 

I still use it. Don't know if the the C60 helps, or the EVOO, but something does. If cancer were an issue it would be all over the place. In my opinion, a false alarm.

 

What if that cancer only comes after a decade or more. Mice also starve to Death after three days of fasting whereas that takes a month or maybe months for humans. 

I feel comfortable with MitoQ in the meantime, although its expensive. But the effects are robust, and I do long for more robust C60 info. But feel the ground is a bit shaky so far.

[ambivalent]

Well Clif High, a c60 advocate, reported  developing cancer. Someone mentioned that he believed the tumour to have been long-standing. Its reasonable to assume that people who've taken c60 will have subsequently been diagnosed with cancer but of course not necessarily causatively. There may have been one other case reported, if anyone recalls. In addition Ichor's initial foray into c60 showed only a slowing of development in mouse models.

 

On a brighter note, this guy had been using for 10ml a day for 2 years. Couple of clips two years apart:

 

 

https://www.youtube....7LW5_i20Ho&t=4s

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=Q5-aAuvttr4

 

I watched them concurrently (muted). They are not perfect like-for-like; however, he appears more animated and expressive in the recent video, but he is wearing headphones in the other which might influence movement. His skin looks tighter and fresher, but of course we all know are own daily variances in appearance - he may have been recovering from a cold two years ago. There are, though, plenty of videos to contrast time lapses. He also claims hair growth after 40 weeks with a c60 topical product, not that I can tell from his before and after's. 

 

 

[Globespy]

Both Ben Greenfield & Dave Aspery have had Ian Mitchell on from C360 Health and has been talking C60 up rather aggressively in the last few weeks. Has anything new been discovered since this 2018 thread? I'd love to give it a try but I'm trying to prevent cancer not ingest something that may cause it!

 

If Turnbuckle is mentioning the potential for cancer, then I'd be inclined to believe the guy since he's been around in this C60 scene a LONG time and was a proponent of it if I'm not mistaken?
When in doubt....

[joesixpack]

What if that cancer only comes after a decade or more. Mice also starve to Death after three days of fasting whereas that takes a month or maybe months for humans. 

I feel comfortable with MitoQ in the meantime, although its expensive. But the effects are robust, and I do long for more robust C60 info. But feel the ground is a bit shaky so far.

There are threads here that go back to 2012. I think if C60 promoted cancer , we would have heard about it by now.

 

We have not heard about it. If it comes in the next few years I will pay attention. 

 

However, if it is a cancer promoter, we should have seen it by now.

[timedilation]

Any updates to the discussion in this thread?  Is carbon60oliveoil still generally considered to be the best source?  Is it confirmed that they follow the Baati process and keep the products entirely free from light exposure?

[Rocket]

I recently switched suppliers for cost. Whereas my original suppliers c60 gave me vivid dreams the new one has not. Using that as my canary I can vouch they are not all the same.

[LOOKINGFORTIME]

May I ask where you are buy the product now?

[joesixpack]

If Turnbuckle is mentioning the potential for cancer, then I'd be inclined to believe the guy since he's been around in this C60 scene a LONG time and was a proponent of it if I'm not mistaken?
When in doubt....

 

I looked into this. Cliff had colon cancer, which is very slow growing. He had a blockage that could have killed him. He felt that the C60 kept the cancer from metastasizing over the years. It did not metastasize. They got it out and he is doing fine. He might be right. certainly no reason to stop taking C60, and maybe a reason to take it. Check him out.

[joesixpack]

May I ask where you are buy the product now?

 

I use  https://carbon60oliveoil.com.

[Soalian]

I use  https://carbon60oliveoil.com.

 

Hey, so I've got this bottle from Carbon60oliveoil from 2018, it has been sitting in a dark place at room temp most of the time, however the opaque bottle may have been briefly exposed to sunlight a few times (room natural light).

 

Would you think it would be still safe to use then ?

 

Thanks man !

[smithx]

Hey, so I've got this bottle from Carbon60oliveoil from 2018, it has been sitting in a dark place at room temp most of the time, however the opaque bottle may have been briefly exposed to sunlight a few times (room natural light).

 

Would you think it would be still safe to use then ?

 

Thanks man !

 

There's no evidence it was ever safe to use. We don't know that they produced it in total darkness and stored it in total darkness, so it could have been unsafe when you got it.

 

Having exposed it to sunlight, its even less likely to be safe.

 

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

C60 solution is indeed sensitive, and thus I keep mine in metal bottles in the freezer. MCT oil appears to be the least problematical solvent as it is not very reactive compared to the complex mix of olive oil. But the biggest danger for most people is taking it incorrectly. In my hypothesis, C60 works by expanding stem cell pools, and those are expanded by the combination of mito fusion + UCP2 blocking. Blocking the UCP2 pores with C60 banishes the quiescence of stem cells, and thus they wake up and begin dividing. Without mito fusion, however, they will divide asymmetrically and will be used up more rapidly than normal. If the SC niche is small, such as in a hair root, you may lose the root permanently. And without fusion, you can't expect to add years to your life. With fusion you can reverse your epigenetic age. Use alpha-ketoglutarate with it, which promotes demethylase, and you can double that reversal. My highest reversal according to a test several months ago is 22 years. No one else in the world has seen that.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 11 July 2021 - 12:51 PM.

[smithx]

C60 solution is indeed sensitive, and thus I keep mine in metal bottles in the freezer. MCT oil appears to be the least problematical solvent as it is not very reactive compared to the complex mix of olive oil. But the biggest danger for most people is taking it incorrectly. In my hypothesis, C60 works by expanding stem cell pools, and those are expanded by the combination of mito fusion + UCP2 blocking. Blocking the UCP2 pores with C60 banishes the quiescence of stem cells, and thus they wake up and begin dividing. Without mito fusion, however, they will divide asymmetrically and will be used up more rapidly than normal. If the SC niche is small, such as in a hair root, you may lose the root permanently. And without fusion, you can't expect to add years to your life. With fusion you can reverse your epigenetic age. Use alpha-ketoglutarate with it, which promotes demethylase, and you can double that reversal. My highest reversal according to a test several months ago is 22 years. No one else in the world has seen that.

 

Turnbuckle, that's interesting. How are you measuring the age - a methylation test or? Would be interested in knowing which test or method.

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle, that's interesting. How are you measuring the age - a methylation test or? Would be interested in knowing which test or method.

 

Yes. Epigenetic aging tests. See this post.

[OlderThanThou2]

C60 solution is indeed sensitive, and thus I keep mine in metal bottles in the freezer. MCT oil appears to be the least problematical solvent as it is not very reactive compared to the complex mix of olive oil. But the biggest danger for most people is taking it incorrectly. In my hypothesis, C60 works by expanding stem cell pools, and those are expanded by the combination of mito fusion + UCP2 blocking. Blocking the UCP2 pores with C60 banishes the quiescence of stem cells, and thus they wake up and begin dividing. Without mito fusion, however, they will divide asymmetrically and will be used up more rapidly than normal. If the SC niche is small, such as in a hair root, you may lose the root permanently. And without fusion, you can't expect to add years to your life. With fusion you can reverse your epigenetic age. Use alpha-ketoglutarate with it, which promotes demethylase, and you can double that reversal. My highest reversal according to a test several months ago is 22 years. No one else in the world has seen that.

 

Would cocoa produce the same effect? The stearic acid it contains causes fusion, and despite that, the number of stem cells in circulation increases:

Health Benefits of Cacao - Dr William Li

 

 

Cacao has also been shown to improve stem cell function. At the University of California, San Francisco, researchers explored whether a chocolate drink made with cocoa containing high levels of flavanols could influence stem cells and blood vessel health. Participants who drank the high-flavanol beverage had twice as many stem cells in their circulation compared to the people who drank the low- flavanol cocoa, showing that the more flavanols contained in the product, the more stem cell benefits it boasts.

 

 

They used a cocoa enriched in polyphenols, but we can take low fat cocoa powder and increase the dosage, so we get a better polyphenol content per calorie perhaps similar to what they had in the study. And possibly add more fusion enhancing supplements or food if we want.

 

Would that achieve the same result as taking C60?

[Turnbuckle]

Would cocoa produce the same effect? The stearic acid it contains causes fusion, and despite that, the number of stem cells in circulation increases:

Health Benefits of Cacao - Dr William Li

 

 

They used a cocoa enriched in polyphenols, but we can take low fat cocoa powder and increase the dosage, so we get a better polyphenol content per calorie perhaps similar to what they had in the study. And possibly add more fusion enhancing supplements or food if we want.

 

Would that achieve the same result as taking C60?

 

 

Polyphenols do have some utility in SC stimulation. In the Batti et al. rat paper, for instance, the EVOO-control rats saw a longevity improvement of about 15%. That's pretty good, but well short of C60. The Batti paper speculated that C60 worked because of its antioxidant properties, but it was more likely due to its unique activity as a UCP2 blocker. The mitochondria of SCs have a UCP2 expression some ten times higher than somatic cells. This allows protons to leak out without manufacturing ATP, thereby keeping SCs quiescent. Blocking them with C60 wakes them up, and from there they will proliferate or differentiate according to their mito status. And thus another thing the Batti paper missed was the necessity for mito fusion. Likely they achieved it accidentally by overnight fasting. Rats are six times more sensitive to this due to their high metabolic rates.

 

Bottom line, even with mito fusion I don't expect polyphenols to get anywhere close to the results possible with C60.

[OlderThanThou2]

Does intermittant fasting increase fusion? There are studies indicating that calorie restriction increases fission.

 

Alterations of ultrastructural and fission/fusion markers in hepatocyte mitochondria from mice following calorie restriction with different dietary fats - PubMed (nih.gov)

 

What I find a bit strange with the Batti study is that the control rats seemed to have had a relatively short lifespan of 16 to 32 weeks. I read that the average lifespan of a pet rat is around 2 years. 

Corrigendum to “The prolongation of the lifespan of rats by repeated oral administration of [60]fullerene” [Biomaterials 33 (2012) 4936–4946] - ScienceDirect

 

Keeping and Caring for Pet Rats (thesprucepets.com)

 

 

 

• Average lifespan of a pet rat is 18 to 36 months.1

 

I don't have access to the batti study so I don't know what species of rats they used to know if 16 to 32 weeks is normal or not. Perhaps the control group was fed a really bad diet.

[OlderThanThou2]

I saw this:

The prolongation of the lifespan of rats by repeated oral administration of [60]fullerene - ScienceDirect

 

It doesn't say what species of rat it is, and the exact protocol used, so I take it it is only a summary of the paper. If they used wild type rats, perhaps they have shorter lifespan than pet rats, I don't know.

[OlderThanThou2]

Sorry about that it was probably in months, that makes more sense. There is something else I wonder about though, which is the fact that OO and C60OO taste different so perhaps the rats drank more of one than the other. If they drank more C60OO, the extra longevity could be due to more OO being ingested, considering that OO on its own had a big impact.

 

The same issue exists also for the recent study that failed that was done on mice. How can we be sure the mice ingested the same amounts of the 2, to be sure we compare what's comparable.

 

I apologize for the 3 posts.

[joesixpack]

I saw this:

The prolongation of the lifespan of rats by repeated oral administration of [60]fullerene - ScienceDirect

 

It doesn't say what species of rat it is, and the exact protocol used, so I take it it is only a summary of the paper. If they used wild type rats, perhaps they have shorter lifespan than pet rats, I don't know.

 

This is the Baati study.

[OlderThanThou2]

This is the Baati study.

 

Thank you.

 

Geez it's written on the chart that it's in months... 

[smithx]

Also that study was never replicated in any way AFAIK.

 

In the absence of replication, we have no way of knowing whether the results were even real or not.

[OlderThanThou2]

The lifespan of the C60OO fed rats was still 53 weeks, which seems to be out of the ordinary for rats, whereas the lifespan in the control group sounded normal. So unless they faked the results there is probably a powerful effect going on. Some have pointed out that there was too few rats in the control group but the effect is strong enough to see the trend even with few rats.

Edited by OlderThanThou2, 15 July 2021 - 12:36 PM.

[TheFountain]

So is there a brand that most members here gravitate to in terms of efficacy and consistency of effect?