87 replies to this topic

[Synchro]

I have the ability to make or access virtually any rejuvenation substance on the planet. This is the result of years of study of molecular biology, decades of work as a physician, and decades of building connections worldwide with reputable (and non-reputable) sources for just about....anything. It also doesn't hurt that I have my own research laboratory and a multi-million dollar multi-year contract with a Chinese group for research into a number of topics, some of which involve true rejuvenation agents. Not wanna-be's, not nooropic stacks, not multi-vitamin-mineral lists that won't slow down aging one second's worth - no, the real deals, such as GDF-11, astragaloside IV, and so on.

 

I wish to form a club with like-minded individuals. Why? To make money? No. To gain access by having sufficiently large orders to make it worthwhile for my suppliers to make large amounts of said true rejuvenation substances.

 

How do you know if you qualify?

 

1. you gotta be old enough to be willing to take real risk in the hopes of gaining real benefit. That means old enough that you are scared that if you don't reverse the aging process damn soon, you know you're going to get old and die, no if's, and's or but's about it. Anyone less than 50 years old probably shouldn't bother with this, unless you're well heeled and are willing to put up some serious dough to make this work. I don't want tire kickers, cowards, idiots who actually believe doctors have a clue about this stuff, idiots who believe what the government tells them, or penniless-dreamers, I want people with brains, the ability to use their brains, resources, and the courage to act, who are as scared as I am of getting any older and any closer to becoming decrepit and dying...or already are decrepit and already damned scared of dying soon.

 

2. You have to have some disposable assets. Sorry, I can gain you access, I can make it as affordable as possible, but what I can't do is make it cheap. The good stuff doesn't come cheap, even at bulk scale...although bulk sure makes it a lot CHEAPER. If you're pinching pennies, sigh, sorry, I can't help you right now. If you bring in other members who are NOT pinching pennies, I can include you. Contact me.

 

What would be the benefits?

 

1. Access to the real stuff at bulk pricing. I don't make a profit, although there will be a 20% add-on for all the administrative and distribution costs.

2. The club will use this forum, longecity, as our means of communicating. Much of our communications will be public, to attract more members, but new members will have to first become longecity members. Some of our communications will be private, and we'll have to figure out how to do that. So, what's the benefit? The group mind has resources greater than any individual; I'm sure things I'm not aware of will come to my attention that will benefit us all.

3. Access to testing. It's a lot of money to set up to test yourself for, say, telomere lengthening, but as a club member, we can divide that cost into little chunks, so everyone can test as needed.

 

How would this club be run?

 

There are two answers to this:

1. The club will be set up to work as a legally structured buyers club to give legal access; so the club will be run according to what an attorney expert in this field tells me to do.

2. To the extent that #1 permits, the club will not be a democracy or - God forbid - a committee. I will rule, and make decisions as to what we will have access to and what we will not have access to. Why? To exclude idiots, fanatics and special-interest persons from mucking up the decision making process. I am thoroughly trained in both molecular biology and medicine, I am a paradigm-changing researcher who is engaged in research In China on a scale that would literally blow your mind (but which I am not about to disclose at this time; later), and I have one goal: rejuvenation. That means substances and procedures that promise tremendous benefit at as low risk as can be reasonably achieved, keeping in mind that if we risk nothing, we not only gain nothing, we age and die. That means not wasting time and money on bullshit. That means a process of engagement with promising agents and procedures wherein we closely monitor our group results and quickly determine how well or badly an intervention is succeeding or failing. I cannot emphasize this last point enough. We're not just blindly charging ahead - we're blindly charging ahead in an educated way a little bit at a time, and then assessing whether we're charging into the light or the darkness. No, we don't have to do a 20-year FDA study to do that - that's for the people who want to age and die - with good scientific method shared between us, we can very quickly assess whether something's helping or hurting. Some things we can probably assess in weeks, some in months. Anything that takes years we'll consider, but anything that takes years to show effect will have to have a pretty seriously huge potential benefit if I'm going to bother with it.

 

What are some special features this club will have?

 

1. People can self select into sub-groups in several ways:

    a. of course, they can simply pick and choose - this will automatically create a number of divisions of the data;

    b. I also envision creating several programs that members can self-select to join at their discretion. Examples might be:

         1). The Berserkers. Anything and everything at aggressive dosing. No screwing around here, the right combination of dread of dying and crazy fearlessness to just go for it.

                 a). Note: someone who cannot afford to be a Berserker can volunteer to be sponsored. Rich person who is afraid? Sponsor a Berserker who otherwise could not afford it. 

         2). The Second Wave. A pretty aggressive lineup of rejuvenation interventions, but a definite step down from balls to wall any risk.

                  b). less affluent members can also volunteer to be sponsored to be a "2nd Waver".

         3). The Third Wave: middle of the line. Still cutting edge? Yes. Fewer interventions, more conservative dosing.

                  c). less affluent members can volunteer to be a "3rd Waver" also, but most members are probably going to want to be 3rd Wavers anyway.

 

So this is the idea. If there's real interest, I'll do it. If there's tons of carping, I'll still do it - I just won't do it here.

 

Very Best Regards, Synchro

[smithx]

Doing something like this as a club with minimum dollar expenditure amounts seems completely backwards to me. Some compounds are cheap, others extremely expensive.

 

If you are not in this to make a lot of money from people, then let anyone join a group to buy any particular product they want, at the cost which you can obtain based on the number of people who are interested in that product.

 

I don't think you will be getting people here to sign up to just take whatever it is that you decide to provide. People are going to want to and need to pick and choose.

 

 

[Bryan_S]

I'm currently looking at finding a source of GDF-11. I'm corresponding with a molecular biologist I know and would be interested in finding like minded individuals. We are currently talking about a eukaryotic cell cultures because GDF-11 is a glycoprotein and bacterial-expressed proteins would not be glycosylated, so there are initial issues that need some clarification. Then there is the necessary infrastructure to pull this off along with purification. 

[Synchro]

Thanks, Smithx, for your response. You have pointed out flaws in my post, which I'll try to remedy:

 

Doing something like this as a club with minimum dollar expenditure amounts seems completely backwards to me. Some compounds are cheap, others extremely expensive.

 

You are correct about the pricing. However, in order to create a legal entity that gives protection to the members, a club is a necessary legal tool. I think what you're essentially advocating is the legal equivalent of a supermarket. - but that won't work legally, that's commercialization, and will attract lawsuits based on patent infringement. The club model gets around this. But, to have a club, there must be clearly (legally) defined members. Once inside the club, members can pick and choose products at much cheaper prices, whether the product starts out cheap or expensive.

 

If you are not in this to make a lot of money from people,

 

That's correct, I'm not. It's about access. It is about making large buys. So, when I say pick and choose, that could be misleading. Once the club is well up and running, with a sufficient base of reserves from membership fees - yes, upon reflection I realized the club would have to have membership fees in order to get ahead on making bulk orders - a pick and choose smorgasboard becomes feasible, but until then buys will have to be restricted to how many are interested in making a group buy at any particular time. There's no such thing as a free lunch, not even in a buyers' club, just a cheaper lunch.

 

I don't think you will be getting people here to sign up to just take whatever it is that you decide to provide. People are going to want to and need to pick and choose.

 

You're probably right. But perhaps others might think differently. We'll see. I don't give a damn, I can start this in a million ways, I just thought at longecity I might find a group that sees the vision of this. As for what I decide....I see that needs clarification. What I am not willing to do is permit this club idea to devolve into committee ineffectiveness. Anywhere you look where decisions are made based on committees, you will see analysis paralysis and you will see devolution to the most trivial choices. When you look at companies and startups that are "disruptors", that provide products that truly revolutionize the human experience, what do you see? Very strong leaders who make gutsy decisions. Apple didn't get to the top, one of the most respected corporations in the world, by having a standard CEO - no, they had the visionary and in some ways obnoxious Steve Jobs. When Apple tried the experiment of firing Jobs and bringing in a nice corporate CEO who played nice, what happened? Apple tanked, that's what. They had to bring Jobs back - and Jobs had to beg Gates for money - to save Apple, Now, I'm a lot nicer guy than Jobs, but I'm also a visionary, and I have the necessary training, experience and knowledge to make revolutionary decisions. Does this mean I'm going to ignore input? Hell, no. If someone has a great idea, I'm going to use it. If someone joins who is my peer scientifically, I'll invite them to be in my top group of advisors. If someone joins who is my superior scientifically and visionarilly (is that a word?) I'll turn over the leadership to them. HEY, MY GOAL IS THE SAME AS YOURS - TO AVOID AGING AND DYING!!!!!! So, why in the world would I exclude anything that might save my life?????????

 

 

[Synchro]

I'm currently looking at finding a source of GDF-11. I'm corresponding with a molecular biologist I know and would be interested in finding like minded individuals. We are currently talking about a eukaryotic cell cultures because GDF-11 is a glycoprotein and bacterial-expressed proteins would not be glycosylated, so there are initial issues that need some clarification. Then there is the necessary infrastructure to pull this off along with purification. 

Bryan_S, thanks!! How exciting.

 

I can add to this that I do have the necessary infrastructure for all the steps: transformation, culture, extraction, purification. I have a microbiologist who is world-class. Collaboration in this project with you and your molecular biologist would be welcome. I can offer two choices at this point: if the club idea takes hold, then that can provide the financial resources. If not, I will still do the project - everyone should keep firmly in mind that I don't want to continue to age and die either - sheez, I wouldn't think I'd have to keep saying that - out of my own resources, but there will be a delay until I realize sufficient capital gains from my current project.

 

Let's see if this idea takes hold. I can understand the general paranoia of a forum group - they're always having to fend off for-profit companies posing as members (I certainly appreciate the ads here that give me access) - but too much paranoia will cause members to miss a truly golden opportunity.

 

Thanks so much for your input and interest; I am encouraged.

[pro-v]

Credentials?

[malbecman]

 Anyone see Dallas Buyers Club?

[smithx]

Thanks, Smithx, for your response. You have pointed out flaws in my post, which I'll try to remedy:

 

Doing something like this as a club with minimum dollar expenditure amounts seems completely backwards to me. Some compounds are cheap, others extremely expensive.

 

You are correct about the pricing. However, in order to create a legal entity that gives protection to the members, a club is a necessary legal tool. I think what you're essentially advocating is the legal equivalent of a supermarket. - but that won't work legally, that's commercialization, and will attract lawsuits based on patent infringement. The club model gets around this. But, to have a club, there must be clearly (legally) defined members. Once inside the club, members can pick and choose products at much cheaper prices, whether the product starts out cheap or expensive.

 

 

 

In order to create the legal entity of a club, at most you would need to require a $1 membership fee. There's no necessity for the fee to be higher to establish club membership.

 

After that, products could easily be ordered based on the number of people interested in each product.

 

I don't think any other method makes sense, except as a way to make money.

 

[adamh]

 

Thanks, Smithx, for your response. You have pointed out flaws in my post, which I'll try to remedy:

 

Doing something like this as a club with minimum dollar expenditure amounts seems completely backwards to me. Some compounds are cheap, others extremely expensive.

 

You are correct about the pricing. However, in order to create a legal entity that gives protection to the members, a club is a necessary legal tool. I think what you're essentially advocating is the legal equivalent of a supermarket. - but that won't work legally, that's commercialization, and will attract lawsuits based on patent infringement. The club model gets around this. But, to have a club, there must be clearly (legally) defined members. Once inside the club, members can pick and choose products at much cheaper prices, whether the product starts out cheap or expensive.

 

 

 

In order to create the legal entity of a club, at most you would need to require a $1 membership fee. There's no necessity for the fee to be higher to establish club membership.

 

After that, products could easily be ordered based on the number of people interested in each product.

 

I don't think any other method makes sense, except as a way to make money.

 

 

I agree totally with smithx. A very nominal membership fee is reasonable and everything after that would be negotiable. I don't think you will find a ton of "berserkers" with loads of money just waiting to be told where to spend it. What you will find is well educated people, who will be interested in saving money, interested in hearing about new and intriguing life extending products and who want these products well tested.

 

You say you will add 20% to the cost of the materials, that is fine if either its still lower than comparable sources or close to the cost but with better testing. We will pay for quality and for hard to find or impossible to find items. Just about anything can be gotten from china but with iffy quality. For us or any group to get on board with this we would want to see how its better than doing a group buy which we have done a number of times already.

 

We want to see some credentials, for starters. I know I do, pro-v does and no doubt many others do. If you insist on remaining anonymous, that will be an obstacle. Anyone can come in and claim a lot of things, many people are looking to make a lot of money fast and scram. No one is accusing you of that but you need to establish some bona fides and then we will see. Word of mouth will be your best advertising and one or two successful deals will go a long way to convince the skeptics. I would be interested, I spend a good bit already on supplements but I'm waiting for some answers to questions.

[mikey]

This concept attracts me - so I am eager to participate.

 

Thank you for the opportunity, Synchro.

[tintinet]

Intriguing, although the 20% mark up seems a bit excessive. Nevertheless, if the process can provide high quality genuinely effective products at a reasonable cost, it would be worth it to me.

[1kgcoffee]

I'm interested, if this can be done legally.

 

What other substances are you considering? NGF, epitalon and thymalin?

 

 

[Ultravioletbllc]

I'm definitely interested, my new email not listed here is UltraSounds617@gmail.com

[boff]

Well this is interesting. Count me curious, if not entirely in just yet.

[MrHappy]

This sounds interesting, however I'd suggest some form of structured testing and blood-work should be included, if various markers can be established and measured for a particular substance.

Additionally, if you want to create some level of trust as to your qualifications and ability to oversee this kind of venture, whilst still maintaining some anonymity, you could PM your details to a 'trusted party'/mod (in an unofficial capacity), such as myself, who can perform some due diligence and verification checks and provide a 3rd party validation to users on here, without releasing your information.

[smithx]

This sounds interesting, however I'd suggest some form of structured testing and blood-work should be included, if various markers can be established and measured for a particular substance.

Additionally, if you want to create some level of trust as to your qualifications and ability to oversee this kind of venture, whilst still maintaining some anonymity, you could PM your details to a 'trusted party'/mod (in an unofficial capacity), such as myself, who can perform some due diligence and verification checks and provide a 3rd party validation to users on here, without releasing your information.

 

The thing is: why would someone organizing an expensive buyer's club want or need to be anonymous? That does not create confidence, in my mind anyway.

[MrHappy]

This sounds interesting, however I'd suggest some form of structured testing and blood-work should be included, if various markers can be established and measured for a particular substance.

Additionally, if you want to create some level of trust as to your qualifications and ability to oversee this kind of venture, whilst still maintaining some anonymity, you could PM your details to a 'trusted party'/mod (in an unofficial capacity), such as myself, who can perform some due diligence and verification checks and provide a 3rd party validation to users on here, without releasing your information.

The thing is: why would someone organizing an expensive buyer's club want or need to be anonymous? That does not create confidence, in my mind anyway.

I'm sure that once people joined that club that anonymity would be lost inside the group, however, the general public don't need to know who everybody is.

[IpolitBender]

Interested but must maintain reasonable skepticism at this time. Berserker genetically and by inclination but very well understand the risks from imprudent practices.

[Synchro]

Thanks, Mikey, tintinet, 1kgcoffee, ultravioletbllc, boff, MrHappy, and everyone who expressed interest.

 

This is encouraging. And, Pbenefiel, to find out there's at least one berserker potentially!!!!!!!!!!!! That's fabulous, a man after my own heart!

 

I will post more tonight or tomorrow; right now I'm still buried.

 

I will say I've made considerable progress, I think, by being very much a berserker over the past ten years. I've almost killed myself accidentally a few times, but I've learned some good shit, and I've also learned ways of being a bit more....ummmm....educated in my berserkerness lol.

 

You know, this is all about GDF-11. I tend to do things iteratively, and my initial posts were to test the water, kind of get something going, see where it would all lead.

 

Now that I've thought more about it, I realized that my real intention here was to create a structure for being able to make GDF-11 for myself and for others in a format that end-runs all the patents. Personally, I think it is BULLSHIT that anyone should be able to patent ANYTHING that is natural to the human body, natural to our own genetics, but I don't have the money to fight this patent all the way to the Supreme Court. So, it's all about end-running the patent.

 

Creating the club does this, but - as some of you have certainly pointed out - qualified legal help is required to get it right.

 

Are lots of other things great to include? Sure, and I'll be talking about them - but GDF-11 is the ass-kicking agent that promises rejuvenation; everything else is in the category of helpful but not the main thing - GDF-11 is the main thing.

 

so, the hard reality is that money has to be raised to do two things to make all this work:

 

1. pay legal fees to do the club right, and

2. invest money into being able to make GDF-11.

 

I am not independently wealthy (yet), and cannot finance 1 and 2 myself yet. 

 

But I have the resources to make it all happen, and I'm happy to disclose who I am and my credentials and the credentials of my team - my organic chemist and my microbiologist - to designated people on this forum and/or - especially - someone with vision and moola who would be willing to invest. But, we're not talking about investing for profit, no, we're talking about investing to gain ACCESS. 

 

Those of you who do not have financial resources do not need to despair. this is why I am creating categories whereby someone wealthy could sponsor you; 2nd wave and berserkers.

 

Nor does it have to be financed here in this forum. This was just my starting point; it seemed to me there were educated, reasonable people on this forum, so this might be a good place to start. If it make sense to associate the club with this forum, that's cool too, whatever makes sense.

 

Who I really need to reach, though, are people of means who are old enough to realize they're in deep shit. You know, it's so simple - in my work as a hospice physician, I see people getting ancient and dying all the time. Now that I understand about GDF-11, I look at them and I say to myself: "My God, I'm looking at GDf-11 deficiency." What is so scary about GDF-11 deficiency is you can do all the other things to try to slow down aging, and none of it really matters - you're still going to get old and die, and it is NOT going to be pretty. It's awful. It's horrible. It's pain and sorrow and profound loss a thousand ways, and then you die - and at least 50% of it is just simple GDF-11 deficiency.

 

So, why the fuck wouldn't a group of older people who individually have some resources NOT want to help me achieve the goals of this club? How stupid to ignore this opportunity. Personally, i don't give a crap about anyone too stupid to see the opportunity here - they can grow old and die like the rest, I don't give a fuck. 

 

But for the ones with vision, I do give a fuck. And figuring out how to provide access to everyone else, in time, as the club grows and is able to create chapters all over the world - that I very much give a fuck about.

 

I need those on this forum, if you share my vision and decide to trust me over time, to help network this idea - help me get to those who can provide the initial investment so we can get the production of GDF-11 up and running in an affordable way. Do they get their money back? Yes, if they want. It will take some time, but they can get their money back. But I'll also have a non-profit status, and some of them can choose to make a tax deductible donation. Why the hell not? It's great to leave money after you die, but wouldn't it be a lot better to not die and still give away money lol?

 

As I said, I can make access possible, and I can make things cheaper, but I can't make things cheap...making GDF-11 is not going to be cheap nor easy, but is IS doable, and it DOES appear to be the real deal - so it's worth it.

 

If you're not old enough and desperate enough yet to be a 2nd waver or a berserker, then just wait; you'll get the benefit of us old farts working this stuff out, trying really fucking hard to reverse aging before it's too late for us.

 

If you're old enough to be as worried as I am about going over the edge of the curve and falling into aged decrepitude too damn soon, then get on board! This train is headed for glory.

 

In the future I won't use the word fuck, but it seems to fit right now, and if someone is offended, they can go fuck themselves. And die, I really don't care.

 

More later,

 

Very Best, Synchro

 

 

[smithx]

GDF-11 is available now, for people who have the money:

 

http://www.rndsystem...lts.aspx?m=1508

http://www.peprotech...n_GDF-11/120-11

http://www.genetex.c...X48322-PRO.html

http://www.genscript...pl?geneid=10220

 

I think it would be easier to do a group buy of the stuff, rather than go through some complicated legal stuff to create an organization. Anway, once the organization is created, probably it will just end up buying from Genscript or some other large established company, which we can do anyway without the need of such an organization. If the organization tries to make this themselves. I doubt they will be able to compete on cost and quality.

 

[Bryan_S]

What's the question, this is not a new molecule. Some new process to make or purify it might be currently protected. However human protein GDF-11 has been recognized in its current form for many years.

 

Here is one of the first patents that readily rises to the top.

The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine 

Filing date Jul 7, 1995

http://www.google.co.../WO1996001845A1

In fact many of the original patents on GDF-11 have or are set to expire. I would research the prior art to see what's expired.

 

Now from what I've gathered many people are filing patents for new and novel uses of GDF-11 and that's all well and good. I should say upfront I'm not a patent attorney but as long as no "current" process-related patents are broken I believe you can make and sell the protein. If you make it I would not label anything specific as to its use or application. In fact a NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION label might be advised. However if you make any product claims for the substance and those are covered by any new patents you might expect those claims to be defended by the patent holder.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ological_patent

http://www.lemancons..._strategies.pdf

http://www.uspto.gov...yo_guidance.pdf

 

Now as you review the laws on natural biological substances you are going to come across this:

http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States

 

"Until recently, natural biological substances themselves could be patented (apart from any associated process or usage) in the United States if they were sufficiently "isolated" from their naturally occurring states. Prominent historical examples of such patents on isolated products of nature include adrenaline, insulin, vitamin B12, and gene patents. However, the US Supreme Court ruled in 2013 that mere isolation by itself is not sufficient for something to be deemed inventive subject matter."

 

I work at a news station and we had a rather lively debate on the subject of GDF-11 the other morning having to do with patents and FDA approval. Filing patents is one thing, but defending them is another. To get FDA approval it's a rather expensive endeavor contingent on a significant investment to run the gauntlet. To get the investment needed to get FDA approval you need to know you can defend your "natural biological substance." Even after you get patent approval there remains doubt until you finally defend it in court but investment money wants certainty. Also if the stuff is as easy to make as some DIYbio groups suggest why would any venture capital group or pharmaceutical company risk their money? Most of the patent applications I see being filed are likely land mines for the unwary. Treatments for specific ailments I'm sure will be defended but the GDF-11 protein itself may flounder and die for lack of investment and approval, but a chemically modified GDF-11 that still retains its target activity might find a better financial environment.

 

From what I've read this scenario has doomed a number of worthy natural biological substances.

 

Yes you can buy micro quantities for astronomical rates right now as we speak. Most of what I find available is from Escherichia coli expression. However my research suggests GDF-11 is a glycoprotein. If the glycan is important for the biological function, it'll have to be expressed in eukaryotic cell culture, the bacterial-expressed protein will not be glycosylated. (Remember ribosomes 101)

 

So here is a starting point for the group, does protein GDF-11 need to be glycosylated to be biologically active in a human subject?

 

Eukaryotic cell cultures are not impossible but they are much more complicated.

 

Also being a cytokin, it will almost certainly have to be injected, unless it can be made available as a spray for inhalation or taken sublingually both of which might be a hit or miss on absorption.

 

One positive note in that direction is an article I read on oxytocin nasal sprays but I believe as a peptide it's a smaller molecule.

 

I think it's only a matter of time until you see something like this available to this group. http://www.peptidesc...es.com/oxytocin Or

http://www.drsfoster...cfm?pcatid=1440 In fact I know a few people who are looking for this other substance right now on another thread.

[Synchro]

GDF-11 is available now, for people who have the money:

 

http://www.rndsystem...lts.aspx?m=1508

http://www.peprotech...n_GDF-11/120-11

http://www.genetex.c...X48322-PRO.html

http://www.genscript...pl?geneid=10220

 

I think it would be easier to do a group buy of the stuff, rather than go through some complicated legal stuff to create an organization. Anway, once the organization is created, probably it will just end up buying from Genscript or some other large established company, which we can do anyway without the need of such an organization. If the organization tries to make this themselves. I doubt they will be able to compete on cost and quality.

 

 

smithx, this looks like a great idea at first, but when I looked into it I found problems.

 

First, I went to genscript, and found the only GDF-11 product they are selling is the mRNA precursor. No good, by a whole host of steps - although, purchasing the mRNA might well save steps in our own synthesis.

 

Second, my experience with companies like this and products like this is that they are usually suppliers of micro-amounts for research at hugely inflated prices. They are not set up for production in vast quantity of a single product, and for them to make the switch to that type of production would require not just one group buy, but a guaranteed series of group buys for well over a year. 

 

Third, it has always been my experience that there simply is no substitute to making it yourself. When you make it yourself, you have better control over your own destiny. There are many forces that can be brought against a vendor to cause them to stop making your ordered product. You also control your own quality. Using eukaryotic cells, as we probably would have to do, means we will have to ultra-ultra-ultra-purify - I know my research colleague is up to the task, cost-effectively, I have no such confidence in any vendor, who will be looking to cut costs in order to boost profit.

 

I suppose I can try the other links later, but right now I don't have the time.

 

VB, Synchro

Edited by Synchro, 19 June 2014 - 04:15 PM.

[smithx]

Oops, the Genscript link was indeed for the mRNA.

 

Genscript does have a large scale protein service:

http://www.genscript...rification.html

 

They will use different cell lines, and if mammalian cells are used, they can do 500 liters as a maximum batch size, which I really don't think non-commercial facilities would be able to handle. They can do 2000 L with yeasts.

 

The real issue is that I don't think GDF11 has been fully defined. This appears to be the sequence, but it doesn't appear to be proven to be the complete sequence, including the necessary glycosylation:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....rotein/O95390.1

 

Since it doesn't appear that this protein has been fully defined, I'm not sure how one would produce it, other than getting some human cells in tissue culture which express it naturally, and then refining it, which doesn't really seem feasible.

 

Synchro: do you have any references for a full definition of this protein, sufficient to synthesize it?

 

 

[Zaion]

I am interested and I am not against putting money on the table for something working. I would agree with those who think that a group buy for specific compounds would be easier and maybe makes more sense.

I would say that we hear many promises but it is not easy to see something really working the club could help to understand what is really worth.

[Synchro]

Well, thanks all, but I can see this is not going to work. There's some interest, but you're not catching the vision.

 

I won't bother with group buy bullshit; this is about forming a group of explorers, gentlemen. 

 

Think of it as the Anti-Aging equivalent of the Explorers' Club. 

 

Most of you are acting like the merchants in London who loved to go to the lectures and experience vicariously the voyages of the daring, and perhaps, once the territory had been thoroughly tamed, take their wives there for a fun outing.

 

I'm talking about forming a true Explorers Club, complete with Berserkers and Second Wavers, people like Everest, who are willing to risk a lot to gain a lot. It is evident to me that there are few people on this forum that either have the vision or the guts or necessary age and desperation to get serious.

 

If someone wishes to truly engage in a real discussion, not just carping and cavilling, please contact me privately.

 

Of course this will take money, do you think GDF-11 grows on trees? And of course there are details to be worked out, and I am under no obligation to make it all pretty with a bow on top so you can make a decision whether you wish to participate in a group buy. Fuck that, and fuck the horse you rode in on.

 

Synchro

[smithx]

No verification of any kind that you can do what you're saying. No answer to the question of how GDF11 would actually be synthesized and/or refined from cell culture. Lots of bluster and no concrete information at all.

 

Of course that isn't going to work.

 

If your lab (assuming you actually have one) publishes the complete structure of GDF11 or publishes a method of producing usable quantities thereof, please come back and let everyone know.

 

Both of these would be highly publishable results, as far as I can see.

 

In the absence of either of the above, I see only a dream being sold here.

[Synchro]

not selling anything. Looking for interest in a true explorer's club. no worries, anyone who is truly interested can contact me privately; I didn't expect much but hoped for a lot. just testing the waters; I don't give a damn whether you believe me or not.

[Synchro]

OK, guys, let's try this again. I am becoming very suspicious this forum is just made up of wannabe's and an old guard that is as suspicious as a pack of junk yard dogs, but I'm willing to give it one more shot.

 

Not looking for your fucking money. Did get sidetracked into thinking about networking to funding, but I now retract that, since that just makes some of the people here act like there's a boogey man in the closet. Grow up!!!

 

I just want to brainstorm an idea. OK? Can we just have fun with it? For crissakes. 

 

For reasons of a pending research contract, huge, it is not politcal for me to reveal my identity right now. You need to respect my need for confidentiality. If this ever gets serious, everyone will be satisfied  to their fucking heart's contents.

 

Now, the idea is to form an Explorer's Club in Rejuvenation. Not fucking around. Not trivial bullshit. The real deal. Going for real rejuvenation - which means real reversal of aging.

 

Not growing old and dying, stinking in your piss and shit in a nursing home. I think that's a concept the classic members of the real Explorer's Club understood: it was better to die trying to achieve something magnificent than to waste away in a nursing home, grotesque, suffering, all vestiges of youth wrested away by aging, just to be "safe". There is no safety; it is an illusion. The true explorers of the world understood this; they literally laughed at danger. When I read the books of Thor Heyerdahl, I am filled with joy. The Norwegian who signed on on the strength of a single letter from Heyerdahl, knowing perfectly well the raft might well sink halfway across the Pacific, and who didn't care - he just wanted to be part of a grand adventure. The true spirit of men; the willingness to risk it all on a grand roll of the dice. The reed raft that Heyerdahl and another crew of intrepid volunteers stepped off as it literally sank beneath their feet on the eastern coast of the Americas after sailing it across the Atlantic ocean, mirroring their feat years earlier in the Pacific.

 

So, yeah, I'm totally serious about finding a set of fellow Berserkers, and I don't give a flying fuck about all the critics, anymore than Heyerdahl gave a fuck about the so-called experts who told him he couldn't take the Kon Tiki across the Pacific. The world is full of critics who don't have the guts to attempt anything even remarkable, much less great. So, I'm talking here to the people who want greatness; I'm not talking to London Merchants who don't want to leave the comfort of their stores or, God forbid, their wives.

 

Here's what I plan to do personally, with a few notes here and there:

 

1. I'm going to figure out how to make GDF-11 and I'm going to take it. Anybody who wants to join me early enough, gets in on the ground floor as a paying participant at cost or a funded volunteer berserker by anyone who wants to sponsor them but doesn't want the risk personally. Everyone else can go fuck themselves.

 

2. I'm going to inject myself with CD60. I do have one worry about this...the rat evidence is damn good, but there is one little concern, which I'm thinking about, ruminating, cogitating....what if the CD60 actually prevents something else from working? God forbid it prevents the GDF11 from working, but if take the risk, fuck it, I'm not gonna look back or complain. I don't think it's a big concern, I'm just thinking about it, that's all.  I'm still waiting for it to show up from the UK, what a frigging hassle to get it.

 

3. I tried LiveCell from Lab Dome, and it damn near killed me, it caused pancreatitis. That's the sheep placenta in pills. The guy who distributes it in the U.S,. or at least who I got it from, it's damned expensive, told me he swears by it, and he tells me he's still skying the black diamond slopes and balling his wife in his 90's, so maybe it works. It might. It's undoubtedly full of growth factors, and I'm sure some of it gets absorbed - as a matter of fact, judging from how damn sick it made me, I would say it absorbed damn well, so please nobody shit on this with their old out-of-date bullshit about how growth factors don't get past the stomach, yes, they do.

 

4. I am on astragaloside IV which I got from my Chinese supplier in 98% purity, a source I can trust. When I get the research contract in a month or so, I'll have an LCMS (actually, an HPLC/MS/MS/MS, and I'll be able to independently verify the purity, but I've worked with this Chinese source for a while and she's always been completely trustworthy, complete quality. 100 mg once a day. dunno if it works, been on it a month, and I do feel an undefinable "boost" from it, but that could just be bullshit.

 

5. I'm on all the standard anti-aging bullshit supplements, which are all helpful in little ways, kind of covering my bases kind of thing, but I know it's all just "supporting players" not the real stars.

 

6. I am planning to add high dose creatine. Life Extension Foundation just came out with a great article about it, and it looks damn good. I suggest you go here to read it:

http://viewer.zmags....27#/68ad2027/38

 

Now, a note on GDF11. It is probably not the perfect rejuvenating substance, but the research so far looks damn good and it's sure good enough for me to want to get going on it. Several experts working on parabiosis - where the a young rat and an old rat are surgically joined together so they share the same blood supply - say that there are up to six known factors involved - some of which, like GDF11 are needed in higher doses, and some of which need to be removed - but I still think that GDF11 is likely to be 80% of what is needed, and I think we'll see over time that it shows more effect the longer it is used. I also think there are undoubtedly cofactors that boost the total effect, but, again, I think that 80% of perfect is still pretty good and a hellavalot better than nothing...remember that nothing is already well known and guaranteed; you end up dead in a nursing home bed, a shell of your former self, swimming in your own shit and piss...get it?

 

I also think there's a decent possibility that the factors that "need to be removed" might just be more carping and cavilling from party-pooper scientists. It's so easy to be a party-pooper. But, in any case, it seems to me there's a decent chance that positive factors, given long enough, may result in a lowering of the negative factors naturally. In any case, why not start and find out? If research emerges that nails something down as good to remove, fine, we'll set up to do blood cleaning, and take the damn stuff out, whatever the hell it is. But I'm not going to wait on that bit of research; I'm going to get GDF11 going in me as soon as humanly possible.

 

gotta stop here. critics, just leave me alone. Those of you with the guts and vision of Heyerdahl volunteer, welcome aboard!!!

 

Very Best, Synchro

[Primal]

why not inject a shit ton on NMN as per the recent sinclair study? Or high dose IV nicotinamide riboside might be even better, because for NMN to pass through cell membranes it needs to be hydrolized to NR. If we can locate a trusthworty and decently priced source for NMN/NR I'm down to try those ultra high doses for a few weeks. Reversing aging, not slowing it down, is what we're after is it not?  I have everything else I need for infusions

Edited by Primal, 23 June 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[Synchro]

Primal, thanks.

 

Loved your post; somebody out there with a more radical idea than me, COOL!!!

 

Offhand I have no idea what you're talking about but later today I'll google it all and get up to speed.

 

Indeed, why not? Let's find out. If there's no obvious "why not", then, yeah, baby, I'll go for it. I never said I wouldn't be the lead Berserker, it would just be nice to have a few fellow axe-swinging yellow-haired wild men, stoked to the gills on natural hallucinogens, beside me. OK, you can be black-haired, lol.

 

Another "out there" topic I'd like to explore is how to better use sleep as part of the rejuvenation process. For example, I'm using CJC w/OUT DAC (DAC not a good idea) to get really good sleep, to hopefully gain more Delta sleep. Dosing is critical; I started at 100 mcg, then went to 250 mcg (berserker mode lol), decided that was wayyyyy tooooo muuuch, then cut back to 50 mcg and have been cruising ever since just fine. More on other escapades later.  I believe there's plenty good evidence that HGH is better released during Delta (used to be stage 4, now called 3N, God only knows why). It seems to me likely that other rejuvenating substances, as well as cancer fighting substances, all of them likely to be neuropeptides, are also released in 3N. I am looking forward to getting either the use of a sleep lab or at least an EEG that will enable me to measure my 3N stage sleep each night to explore this realm further.

 

But this brings up another "out there" idea: the use of propofol on purpose for sleep enhancement. Not much is known, but I sure would like to find out; it's possible that a few hours with propofol would equal an entire night's sleep - what a concept! However, I am not serious about proposing this yet; so many unknowns, and long term safety really is unknown here, this one scares even me a little. A quick note: MJ was not killed by "dangerous" propofol. No, he was killed by a poor doc out of his depth who didn't really know what he was doing. I'm sure I'm not the only doc who said to himself, "Criminey, for $150K a month, I could have made damn sure MJ was safe and I wouldn't have farted around with benzo's. Three different benzo's in a row????? OMG, that is unbelievably bad medicine, but a cardiologist doesn't know crap about psychotropic drugs unless he's really taken himself back to school."

 

BTW, why did I receive a notice this thread is "locked down"? Huh?? Somebody plz explain, I thought this was a place we could discuss rejuvenation ideas freely and openly. And I don't think it's degenerating at all, I think it's just starting to get exciting.

 

Very Best, Syncrho