55 replies to this topic

[Chupo]

Denise Minger spoke about this at AHS 14. 

 

 

 

 

[steve stevey]

One of the most pernicious pieces of nonsense on the internet is that the high protein diet (atkins, paleo, whatever you want to call it) is the road to ultimate health. It's total bunk. There's not a shred of credible science behind it. Not one shred. If you think you have a single piece of credible evidence to back up the claim that high protein diets are healthy over a well balanced diet that includes lots of complex carbs let's see the study. I'd love to see a single study. Just one that's credible. There's no such study, because it's hog wash. Of course this will never stop the atkins diet person because they just "believe". It's a religious conviction. It must be right, because the cave men ate that way, and we all know they lived forever!

 

Diets that are very low carb are causally related to type 2 diabetes. Don't get confused. This is a real world cause, not some logical necessity. Also, it is not to say that type 2 diabetes cannot be causally related to eating too much in general and eating a lot of refined sugars, or drinking tons of soda. That's to divert the claim. Also, notice, if your mother (fill in the person) was a fatty living off soda and through atkins is doing better, this is not evidence that atkins is a diet that is the best diet one could eat for lowering the risk of diabetes. It simply means that atkins is better than the soda diet, which may be true.

 

Anyhow, the paleo types have themselves convinced because they keep reading the same tripe over and over on the internet. Notice if you think that eating a paleo diet is healthy as long as you eat buckets of omega 3 oils, then I rest my case. No good diet should need buckets of omega 3's to be considered reasonable.

 

Here's a pretty interesting documentary on the issue. If you look up dailymotion sugar vs fat on google you'll find the whole doc which was a BBC production. In this doc the high fat, high protein twin ends up with the beginnings of diabetes in like a month, or whatever it was. Which is what the science tells us. Of course, eating refined sugars isn't a good idea either, but diabetes isn't the other twins issue. So, in short, eat good complex carbs and good sources of fats and protein and stop spreading lies about the virtues of atkins. It's a poor diet, leading to ill health. The science is unequivocal on the issue beginning with the many studies cited by the OP.

Edited by steve stevey, 06 September 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Hebbeh]

http://www.scienceda...40901211411.htm

 

Low-carb vs. low-fat diets: Clinicians weigh in

Date:

September 1, 2014

Source: American College of Physicians

 

Two articles in the Sept. 2 Annals of Internal Medicine review and compare the low-carb and low-fat diets. 

 

A low-carbohydrate diet is more effective for weight loss and reducing cardiovascular risk factors than a low-fat diet, the first article notes.

 

More than one third of American adults have at least one form of cardiovascular disease and cardiovascular disease causes one third of all deaths. Low-carbohydrate diets are a popular strategy for weight loss, but their cardiovascular effects are unknown, especially among diverse populations. To compare the effects of a low-carbohydrate versus a low-fat diet on body weight and cardiovascular risk factors, researchers randomly assigned 148 men and women without clinical cardiovascular disease and diabetes to follow a low-carbohydrate (less than 40g a day) or low-fat diet (less than 30 percent of daily calories from fat). All participants were classified as obese based on body mass index and just over half of the participants were black. Both the low-carbohydrate and the low-fat groups received dietary counseling at regular intervals but had no specific calorie or energy goals. At one year, both black and white participants on the low-carbohydrate diet had greater decreases in weight, fat mass, and other cardiovascular risk factors than those on the low-fat diet.

 

Rise in obesity is a substantial contributor to increased prevalence of diabetes

 

An increase in body mass index (BMI) over time is the most important factor contributing to the observed increase in diabetes prevalence since 1976, according to the second study. Diabetes is one of the most common and costly chronic disorders in the United States. Researchers analyzed data from five National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys to determine the extent to which the increase in diabetes prevalence is explained by changing distributions of race/ethnicity, age, and obesity prevalence in U.S. adults. They found that the prevalence of diabetes nearly doubled from 1976 to 1980 and also from 1999 to 2004. During both time periods, diabetes prevalence increased more in men than in women. The increase of certain risk factors, including BMI, race and ethnicity, and age, coincided with an increased incidence of diabetes, with BMI being the greatest contributor among the three covariates. The researchers suggest that public health efforts should focus on interventions that address obesity. The increased prevalence of diabetes among men could not be explained by an increased BMI in men. Researchers suggest that future research should investigate what additional factors may contribute to the faster rise in diabetes in men than in women.

 

Story Source:

The above story is based on materials provided by American College of Physicians. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal References:

1. L.A. Bazzano, T. Hu, K. Reynolds, L. Yao, C. Bunol, Y. Liu, C.S. Chen, M.J. Klag, P.K. Whelton, and J. He. Comparing Low-Fat and Low-Carbohydrate Diets. Annals of Internal Medicine, September 2014 DOI: 10.7326/P14-9029
2. Lydia A. Bazzano, Tian Hu, Kristi Reynolds, Lu Yao, Calynn Bunol, Yanxi Liu, Chung-Shiuan Chen, Michael J. Klag, Paul K. Whelton, Jiang He. Effects of Low-Carbohydrate and Low-Fat Diets. Annals of Internal Medicine, 2014; 161 (5): 309 DOI: 10.7326/M14-0180

 

[Hebbeh]

http://www.scienceda...40522105136.htm

 

Low-carb vegan diet may reduce heart disease risk, weight

Date:

May 22, 2014

Source

St. Michael's Hospital

Researchers at St. Michael's Hospital have shown for the first time that, in addition to weight loss, a specific low-carbohydrate diet may also reduce the risk of heart disease by 10 per cent over 10 years.

 

The diet, often called Eco-Atkins, is a low-carbohydrate vegan diet. Many low-carbohydrate diets have been proven to improve weight loss but most emphasize eating animal proteins and fats, which may raise cholesterol. Diets that are high in vegetable proteins and oils may reduce the risk of heart disease by lowering "bad cholesterol."

 

"We killed two birds with one stone -- or, rather, with one diet," explained lead author Dr. David Jenkins, who is director of the Clinical Nutrition and Risk Modification Centre of St. Michael's Hospital and a Nutritional Sciences professor at the University of Toronto. "We designed a diet that combined both vegan and low-carb elements to get the weight loss and cholesterol-lowering benefits of both."

 

The findings, which were published in British Medical Journal Open, compared Eco-Atkins to a high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet. The Eco-Atkins diet reduced cholesterol by 10 per cent while also helping participants lose an average of four more pounds than the high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet over six months.

 

"We could expect similar results in the real world because study participants selected their own diets and were able to adjust to their needs and preferences," said Dr. Jenkins, who is a vegan.

 

Participants were given menu plans that outlined food items and amounts. Rather than requiring fixed meals, the menus served as a reference guide and participants were given a list of suitable food alternatives. With an exchange list of interchangeable food items, participants were better able to adapt the diet to their personal tastes -- which helped to encourage adherence to the diet.

 

Twenty-three obese men and women completed the six-month diet. Participants were encouraged to eat only 60 per cent of their estimated caloric requirements -- the amount of calories that should be consumed daily to maintain their current weight.

 

Eco-Atkins participants aimed for a balance of 26 per cent of calories from carbohydrates, 31 per cent from proteins and 43 per cent from fat -- coming primarily vegetable oils.

Carbohydrate sources included high-fibre foods such as oats and barley and low-starch vegetables such as okra and eggplant. Proteins came from gluten, soy, vegetables, nuts and cereals. Predominant fat sources for the Eco-Atkins diet were nuts, vegetable oils, soy products and avocado.

 

Story Source:

The above story is based on materials provided by St. Michael's Hospital. 

[Hebbeh]

http://www.scienceda...40508095415.htm

Low-carbohydrate diet reduced inflammation in study

Date:

May 8, 2014

 

Source

Linköping Universitet

 

A low-carbohydrate diet, but not a low-fat diet, reduces inflammation in patients with type 2 diabetes, according to research at Linköping University in Sweden.

 

It is known that patients with type 2 diabetes have higher levels of inflammation than those who do not have the disease, and it is believed that this may contribute to a higher risk of cardiovascular disease and other complications. In a clinical trial at Linköping University a low-carbohydrate diet was compared with a traditional low-fat diet in 61 patients with type 2 diabetes. Only patients in the low-carbohydrate group exhibited reduced levels of inflammatory markers in blood, despite the fact that weight loss was similar in both groups.

 

The trial was conducted over a two year period and was led by Dr Hans Guldbrand and Professor Fredrik H Nyström. The patients were randomly assigned to a low-carbohydrate diet or a traditional low-fat diet and were given menu suggestions and advices by a dietician during three occasions of the first year. The effects on blood glucose, blood lipids and weight were recently published in the journal Diabetologia 2012.

 

In the present study, published in the journal Annals of Medicine the effects of diets on inflammation were studied in collaboration with cardiologist Professor Lena Jonasson. Compared with healthy individuals without diabetes, the patients exhibited significantly higher levels of inflammatory markers at baseline. New analyses were performed after six months, i.e. when adherence to the two diets was greatest and the weight loss had reached maximum. Weight reduction in both groups was similar, around 4 kg, whereas glucose levels decreased more in the low-carbohydrate group (who had lowered their carbohydrate intake to 25% of total energy intake). After six months, inflammation was significantly reduced in the low-carbohydrate group while no changes were observed in the low-fat diet group.

 

In summary, the presented clinical trial resulted in a similar weight loss comparing low-carbohydrate diet and low-fat diet, but only the low-carbohydrate diet had a favourable impact on inflammation in patients with type 2 diabetes.

 

Story Source:

The above story is based on materials provided by Linköping Universitet. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:

1. Lena Jonasson, Hans Guldbrand, Anna K. Lundberg, Fredrik H. Nystrom. Advice to follow a low-carbohydrate diet has a favourable impact on low-grade inflammation in type 2 diabetes compared with advice to follow a low-fat diet. Annals of Medicine, 2014; 46 (3): 182 DOI: 10.3109/07853890.2014.894286

[Hebbeh]

http://www.scienceda...40305191429.htm

Low saturated fat diets don't curb heart disease risk or help you live longer

Date:

March 5, 2014

Source

BMJ-British Medical Journal

Diets low in saturated fat don't curb heart disease risk or help you live longer, says a leading US cardiovascular research scientist and doctor of pharmacy in an editorial in the open access journal Open Heart.

 

And current dietary advice to replace saturated fats with carbohydrates or omega 6-rich polyunsaturated fats is based on flawed and incomplete data from the 1950s, argues Dr James DiNicolantonio.

 

Dietary guidelines should be urgently reviewed and the vilification of saturated fats stopped to save lives, he insists.

 

DiNicolantonio points out that the demonization of saturated fats dates back to 1952, when research suggested a link between high dietary saturated fat intake and deaths from heart disease.

 

But the study author drew his conclusions on data from six countries, choosing to ignore the data from a further 16, which didn't fit with his hypothesis, and which subsequent analysis of all 22 countries' data, disproved, says DiNicolantonio.

 

Nevertheless, the bad boy image stuck, particularly after US President Eisenhower had a heart attack in his 50s, points out DiNicolantonio in an accompanying podcast.

 

And it prompted the belief that since these fats increase total cholesterol -- a flawed theory in itself, says DiNicolantonio -- they must also increase heart disease risk. And as foodstuffs with the highest calorie density, the thinking was that reduced intake would naturally curb obesity, diabetes, and metabolic syndrome.

 

But the evidence, which continues to mount, suggests otherwise, he says.

 

There is now a strong argument in favour of the consumption of refined carbohydrates as the causative dietary factor behind the surge in obesity and diabetes in the US, he says.

And while a low fat diet may lower 'bad' (LDL) cholesterol, there are two types of LDL cholesterol. And switching to carbs may increase pattern B (small dense) LDL, which is more harmful to heart health than pattern A (large buoyant) LDL, as well as creating a more unfavourable overall lipid profile, he says.

 

Furthermore, several other studies indicate that a low carb diet is better for weight loss and lipid profile than a low fat diet, while large observational studies have not found any conclusive proof that a low fat diet cuts cardiovascular disease risk, he says.

 

But in the race to cut saturated fat intake, several dietary guidelines recommend upping polyunsaturated fat intake.

 

However, a recent analysis of published trial data shows that replacing saturated fats and trans fatty acids with omega 6 fatty acids, without a corresponding rise in omega 3 fatty acids, seems to increase the risk of death from coronary heart and cardiovascular diseases.

 

"We need a public health campaign as strong as the one we had in the 70s and 80s demonising saturated fats, to say that we got it wrong," urges DiNicolantonio in the podcast.

 

The best diet to boost and maintain heart health is one low in refined carbohydrates, sugars and processed foods, he recommends.

 

And anyone who has had a heart attack should not be thinking of replacing saturated fats with refined carbs or omega 6 fatty acids -- particularly those found in processed vegetable oils containing large amounts of corn or safflower oil, he says.

 

Story Source:

The above story is based on materials provided by BMJ-British Medical Journal. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:

1. J. J. DiNicolantonio. The cardiometabolic consequences of replacing saturated fats with carbohydrates or  -6 polyunsaturated fats: Do the dietary guidelines have it wrong? Open Heart, 2014; 1 (1): e000032 DOI: 10.1136/openhrt-2013-000032

[Hebbeh]

http://www.scienceda...40902171148.htm

Comparison of named diet programs finds little difference in weight loss outcomes Date:  September 2, 2014 Source:  JAMA - Journal of the American Medical Association

In an analysis of data from nearly 50 trials including about 7,300 individuals, significant weight loss was observed with any low-carbohydrate or low-fat diet, with weight loss differences between diet programs small, findings that support the practice of recommending any diet that a patient will adhere to in order to lose weight, according to a study in the September 3 issue of JAMA.

 

Named or branded (trade-marked) weight loss programs provide structured dietary and lifestyle recommendations via popular books and in-person or online behavioral support and represent a multibillion dollar industry. Debate regarding the relative merit of the diets is accompanied by advertising claiming which macronutrient composition is superior, such as a low-carbohydrate or low-fat diet. Establishing which of the major named diets is most effective is important because overweight patients often want to know which diet results in the most effective weight loss, according to background information in the article.

 

Bradley C. Johnston, Ph.D., of the Hospital for Sick Children Research Institute, Toronto, and McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, and colleagues conducted a meta-analysis to assess the relative effectiveness of different popular diets in improving weight loss. The researchers conducted a search of the medical literature to identify studies in which overweight or obese adults (body mass index 25 or greater) were randomized to a popular self-administered named diet and reported weight or body mass index data at 3-month follow-up or longer.

 

The meta-analysis included 59 articles that reported 48 randomized clinical trials (7,286 individuals; median age, 46 years; median weight, 207.5 lbs.). In the diet-class analysis adjusted for exercise and behavioral support, all treatments were superior to no diet at 6-month follow-up. Compared with no diet, low-carbohydrate diets had a median difference in weight loss of 19.2 lbs. and low-fat diets had similar estimated effects (17.6 lbs.).

 

At 12-month follow-up, the estimated average weight losses of all diet classes compared with no diet were approximately 2.2 to 4.4 lbs. less than after 6-month follow-up. The diet classes of low fat (16 lbs.) and low carbohydrate (16 lbs.) continued to have the largest estimated treatment effects.

 

Weight loss differences between individual diets were minimal. For example, the Atkins diet resulted in a 3.8 lbs. greater weight loss than the Zone diet at 6-month follow-up. "Although statistical differences existed among several of the diets, the differences were small and unlikely to be important to those seeking weight loss," the authors write.

 

"Our findings should be reassuring to clinicians and the public that there is no need for a one-size-fits­all approach to dieting because many different diets appear to offer considerable weight loss benefits. This is important because many patients have difficulties adhering to strict diets that may be particularly associated with cravings or be culturally challenging (such as low-carbohydrate diets). Our findings suggest that patients may choose, among those associated with the largest weight loss, the diet that gives them the least challenges with adherence. Although our study did not examine switching between diets, such a strategy may offer patients greater choices as they attempt to adhere to diet and lifestyle changes."

 

Editorial: A Diet by Any Other Name Is Still About Energy

 

Linda Van Horn, Ph.D., R.D., of the Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine, Chicago, comments on the findings of this study in an accompanying editorial.

"Overall, the findings from the study by Johnston et al, along with other recent data, underscore the importance of effective diet and lifestyle interventions that promote behavioral changes to support adherence to a calorie-restricted, nutrient-dense diet that ultimately accomplishes weight loss. Choosing the best diet suited to an individual's food preferences may help foster adherence, but beyond weight loss, diet quality including micronutrient composition may further benefit longevity."

 

Story Source:

The above story is based on materials provided by JAMA - Journal of the American Medical Association. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal References:

1. Bradley C. Johnston, Steve Kanters, Kristofer Bandayrel, Ping Wu, Faysal Naji, Reed A. Siemieniuk, Geoff D. C. Ball, Jason W. Busse, Kristian Thorlund, Gordon Guyatt, Jeroen P. Jansen, Edward J. Mills. Comparison of Weight Loss Among Named Diet Programs in Overweight and Obese Adults. JAMA, 2014; 312 (9): 923 DOI: 10.1001/jama.2014.10397
2. Linda Van Horn. A Diet by Any Other Name Is Still About Energy. JAMA, 2014; 312 (9): 900 DOI: 10.1001/jama.2014.10837

[Hebbeh]

http://www.scienceda...40717142049.htm

Eating lean beef daily can help lower blood pressure, study suggests

Date:

July 17, 2014

Source

Penn State

Contrary to conventional wisdom, a growing body of evidence shows that eating lean beef can reduce risk factors for heart disease, according to recent research by nutritional scientists.

 

"This research adds to the significant evidence, including work previously done in our lab, that supports lean beef's role in a heart-healthy diet," said Penny M. Kris-Etherton, Distinguished Professor of Nutrition, Penn State. "This study shows that nutrient-rich lean beef can be included as part of a heart-healthy diet that reduces blood pressure, which can help lower the risk for cardiovascular disease."

 

The DASH eating plan -- Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension -- is currently recommended by the American Heart Association to lower blood pressure and reduce risk of heart disease. People following the DASH diet are encouraged to eat fruits, vegetables, low-fat dairy and protein predominantly from plant sources.

 

The Beef Checkoff Program and the National Institutes of Health-supported Penn State General Clinical Research Center funded this research.

 

Lean beef can be enjoyed as the predominant protein source in a DASH-like diet, along with fruits, vegetables and low-fat dairy, to effectively help lower blood pressure in healthy individuals, the researchers report in the Journal of Human Hypertension. This DASH-like diet is also called the BOLD+ diet -- Beef in an Optimal Lean Diet plus additional protein.

 

Kris-Etherton and colleagues tested four diets to find the effects on vascular health. The diets tested included the Healthy American Diet -- which served as the control -- the BOLD+ diet, the BOLD diet and the DASH diet.

 

The control diet consisted of 0.7 ounces of lean beef per day, while the DASH diet included 1.0 ounce. The BOLD diet had 4.0 ounces and the BOLD+ diet included 5.4 ounces of lean beef.

 

The researchers tested the four different diets with 36 participants, between the ages of 30 and 65. All participants followed each diet at different times throughout the study period. Subjects were randomly assigned an order to follow each of the four diet plans for five weeks each, with a break of one week in between each new plan. Blood pressure was taken at the beginning and end of each diet period.

 

The BOLD+ diet was more effective at reducing blood pressure when compared to the other diets tested.

 

"This evidence suggests that it is the total protein intake -- not the type of protein -- that is instrumental in reducing blood pressure, as part of a DASH-like dietary pattern," the researchers stated.

 

Working with Kris-Etherton were Michael A. Roussell, nutrition consultant; Sheila G. West, associate professor of biobehavioral health; Jan S. Ulbrecht, professor of biobehavioral health; John P. Vanden Heuvel, professor of veterinary science, all at Penn State; Alison M. Hill, lecturer in nutrition, University of South Australia; Trent L. Gaugler, visiting assistant professor of statistics, Carnegie Mellon University; and Peter J. Gillies, professor and director of the Institute for Food, Nutrition and Health at Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey.

 

Story Source:

The above story is based on materials provided by Penn State. The original article was written by Victoria M. Indivero. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:

1. M A Roussell, A M Hill, T L Gaugler, S G West, J S Ulbrecht, J P Vanden Heuvel, P J Gillies, P M Kris-Etherton. Effects of a DASH-like diet containing lean beef on vascular health. Journal of Human Hypertension, 2014; DOI: 10.1038/jhh.2014.34

[Hebbeh]

http://www.scienceda...40408122135.htm

Glucosamine promotes longevity by mimicking low-carb diet, study finds

Date:

April 8, 2014

Source

ETH Zurich

 

Glucosamine has been freely available in drugstores for many decades. It is widely used to treat arthritis and to prevent joint degeneration. Moreover, glucosamine is known to delay cancer growth. In addition, glucosamine reduces metabolism of nutritive sugars, as was already shown some 50 years ago.

 

In 2007, Michael Ristow showed that too much nutritive sugar shortens the lifespan of roundworms, a widely studied model organism in aging research. Conversely, impairing carbohydrate metabolism in these worms was capable of extending lifespan. Unfortunately, the method used in worms at that time unexpectedly appeared to be ineffective in rodents, and hence was not studied further.

 

Extended lifespan by almost 10%

 

In the recently published study that was performed at ETH Zurich and four German research institutions, Ristow and his colleagues applied glucosamine to roundworms and found that they live around 5% longer than their untreated counterparts.

 

Next and most importantly, the researchers fed glucosamine to aging mice in addition to their normal diet. The mice were 100 weeks of age, reflecting a comparative human age of approximately 65 years. A control group of mice received no glucosamine while otherwise receiving an identical diet. Feeding the supplement to mice extended their lifespan by almost 10%, reflecting around 8 additional years of human lifespan. Moreover, glucosamine improved glucose metabolism in elderly mice indicating protection from diabetes, a life-threatening disease most prevalent amongst the elderly.

 

Mimicking a low-carb diet

 

Additional analyses revealed that glucosamine feeding promotes the breakdown of amino acids in both worms and mice. Amino acids are key components of proteins, and they become preferentially metabolized in the absence of carbohydrates. As Ristow points out, "this reflects the metabolic state of a low-carb diet due to glucosamine supplementation alone -- while these mice ingested the same amount of carbohydrates as their unsupplemented counterparts." This implies that glucosamine would mimic a low-carb diet in humans as well -- without the necessity of reducing the uptake of carbohydrates in our daily diet.

 

Should we now start taking glucosamine supplements? Ristow replies: "This may be considered a valid option, and yes, I have started taking glucosamine myself." However, he points out that "diabetics should perform tight blood glucose control, especially during the first weeks." Interestingly, two recent epidemiological studies on more than 77,000 individuals suggest that intake of glucosamine supplements is associated with reduced mortality in humans. "Unlike with our longer living mice, such an association is no definite proof of the effectiveness of glucosamine in humans," says Ristow. He continues, "But the chances are good, and since unlike with most other potentially lifespan-extending drugs there are no known relevant side effects of glucosamine supplementation, I would tend to recommend this supplement."

 

Story Source:

The above story is based on materials provided by ETH Zurich. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:

1. Sandra Weimer, Josephine Priebs, Doreen Kuhlow, Marco Groth, Steffen Priebe, Johannes Mansfeld, Troy L. Merry, Sébastien Dubuis, Beate Laube, Andreas F. Pfeiffer, Tim J. Schulz, Reinhard Guthke, Matthias Platzer, Nicola Zamboni, Kim Zarse, Michael Ristow. D-Glucosamine supplementation extends life span of nematodes and of ageing mice. Nature Communications, 2014; 5 DOI: 10.1038/ncomms4563

 

[Chupo]

I've just come across this book, which is a compilation of hundreds of studies done on low carb or ketogenic diets over the past century.

[Maecenas]

What about Okinawans, who gain 85% of calories in their diet from carbohydrates? And 80% of these calories come from their staple food - purple sweet potatoes, which contain 3 times more sugar than regular potatoes.

http://1.bp.blogspot...tific Study.jpg\

 

http://health.clevel...h-is-healthier/

 

BTW next year I plan to start growing these potatoes here in the north. Potatoes look something like that: http://www.povarenok...4135/413545.jpg

http://domicad.net.u...ofel-gurman.jpg http://miragro.com/s...iy_kartofel.jpg Hope they don't differ too much from their Okinawan cousines.

Edited by Maecenas, 10 December 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[StevesPetRat]

I thought about this topic some recently (above and beyond making a snarky comment). My wild guess is that both extreme <15% carb and <15% fat diets reduce inflammation by depriving gram-negative bacteria of one or the other key substrate for their lipopolysaccharide synthesis.  Of course, I don't know whether these bacteria can produce their own lipids (why would they, when they can just mooch off of us?), but if so, that would pretty well blow up this hypothesis. LPS is, and I can't emphasize this enough, the single most inflammatory agent that we routinely come into contact with. I mean, seriously, pick your favorite anti-inflammatory and google it + LPS. If you want to show an anti-inflammatory is effective, that's the (class of) molecule you put it up against. Also, this would explain why mice / animal studies don't translate well (from wikipedia):

Humans are much more sensitive to LPS than other animals (e.g., mice). A dose of 1 µg/kg induces shock in humans, but mice will tolerate a dose up to a thousand times higher.

1 part PER BILLION induces septic shock. Imagine the damage that could be averted by shutting down low-level chronic exposure? It's like how, say, Edgar Allen Poe was poisoned by CO, as described in uncanny detail in his work. Who at the time could have imagined that an odorless, colorless gas at an infinitesimal concentration could cause such diverse symptoms, that affected such a huge swath of the population?

Hope to write more at a later date so it won't languish here in this (sorry Mr. E) kinda silly thread. Like about how LDN really works. And other stuff.

[sensei]

I think many members here (Eruditus, robertredfern, prolongevity and perhaps prophets, in particular) misunderstand the OP. Eating carbohydrates lowers blood-sugar by lowering glucocorticoids. The mainstream view that eating carbohydrates (even refined carbohydrates like white-flour, white-rice and table-sugar) isn't what causes sustained elevated blood-sugar, only acute elevations which the body is able to handle properly as long as you are insulin-sensitive ... it is the unsuppressed gluconeogenesis that is occurring due to a lack of insulin that causes sustained elevated blood-sugar. The only way to lower gluconeogenesis is by eating carbohydrates.

 

 

 

This post is rubbish.

 

So, so wrong on so many levels.

 

The only time eating carbs lowers blood sugar is in a reactive hypoglycemic -- where approximately 4-5 hours post carb challenge the body produces huge amounts of insulin -- making blood sugar drop like a rock.

 

Type 2 diabetics produce loads of insulin -- the cells just ignore it, and the sugar keeps circulating, or damage the kidneys and come out in the urine.

 

If a type 2 diabetic fasts, blood sugar drops, that falsifies your "unsupressed gluconeogenesis" theory right there.

 

Humans need no external carbohydrates at all.  The body will manufacture the glucose it needs -- or it is just as happy to run entirely on ketone bodies.

 

Ketosis is fine -- keto-acidosis (commonly confused with or conflated with ketosis is a life threatening condition).

[sensei]

 

 

Diets that are very low carb are causally related to type 2 diabetes. Don't get confused. 

Prove it with a few peer reviewed studies.

 

It's funny that there are lots of studies that show the converse is true, namely; reversion from type 2 diabetes in persons that adopt a no carb or low carb diet.

 

I eat very low carbs -- have for almost 2 years now, my diet is 50% calories from fat, 35-40% from protein (I exercise alot and need the protein) and 15-10% from carbs.

 

Yes I consume approximately 1000 calories a day from fat -- 500 just from ~50ml of olive oil daily

 

I eat about 170-180 grams of protein a day ( 1 gram per pound for extremely active adult just to maintain muscle mass)

 

My blood sugar is 104, and my A1C is 5.1

Edited by sensei, 29 December 2014 - 11:59 PM.

[misterE]

 

 

 

Diets that are very low carb are causally related to type 2 diabetes. Don't get confused. 

Prove it with a few peer reviewed studies.

 

 

 

 

 

Ann Intern Med. 2010 Sep 7;153(5):289-98.

 

Low-carbohydrate diets and all-cause and cause-specific mortality: two cohort studies.

 

Fung TT, van Dam RM, Hankinson SE.

 

Abstract

 

BACKGROUND:

 

Data on the long-term association between low-carbohydrate diets and mortality are sparse.

 

OBJECTIVE:

 

To examine the association of low-carbohydrate diets with mortality during 26 years of follow-up in women and 20 years in men.

 

DESIGN:

 

Prospective cohort study of women and men who were followed from 1980 (women) or 1986 (men) until 2006. Low-carbohydrate diets, either animal-based (emphasizing animal sources of fat and protein) or vegetable-based (emphasizing vegetable sources of fat and protein), were computed from several validated food-frequency questionnaires assessed during follow-up.

 

SETTING:

 

Nurses' Health Study and Health Professionals' Follow-up Study.

 

PARTICIPANTS:

 

85 168 women (aged 34 to 59 years at baseline) and 44 548 men (aged 40 to 75 years at baseline) without heart disease, cancer, or diabetes.

 

MEASUREMENTS:

 

Investigators documented 12 555 deaths (2458 cardiovascular-related and 5780 cancer-related) in women and 8678 deaths (2746 cardiovascular-related and 2960 cancer-related) in men.

 

RESULTS:

 

The overall low-carbohydrate score was associated with a modest increase in overall mortality in a pooled analysis (hazard ratio   comparing extreme deciles, 1.12 [95% CI, 1.01 to 1.24]; P for trend = 0.136). The animal low-carbohydrate score was associated with higher all-cause mortality (pooled HR comparing extreme deciles, 1.23 [CI, 1.11 to 1.37]; P for trend = 0.051), cardiovascular mortality (corresponding HR, 1.14 [CI, 1.01 to 1.29]; P for trend = 0.029), and cancer mortality (corresponding HR, 1.28 [CI, 1.02 to 1.60]; P for trend = 0.089). In contrast, a higher vegetable low-carbohydrate score was associated with lower all-cause mortality (HR, 0.80 [CI, 0.75 to 0.85]; P for trend </= 0.001) and cardiovascular mortality (HR, 0.77 [CI, 0.68 to 0.87]; P for trend < 0.001).

 

LIMITATIONS:

 

Diet and lifestyle characteristics were assessed with some degree of error. Sensitivity analyses indicated that results were probably not substantively affected by residual confounding or an unmeasured confounder. Participants were not a representative sample of the U.S. population.

 

CONCLUSION:

 

A low-carbohydrate diet based on animal sources was associated with higher all-cause mortality in both men and women, whereas a vegetable-based low-carbohydrate diet was associated with lower all-cause and cardiovascular disease mortality rates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Am J Clin Nutr. 2011 Apr;93(4):844-50.

 

Low-carbohydrate diet scores and risk of type 2 diabetes in men.

 

de Koning L, Fung TT, Liao X.

 

Abstract

 

BACKGROUND:

 

Fat and protein sources may influence whether low-carbohydrate diets are associated with type 2 diabetes (T2D).

 

OBJECTIVE:

 

The objective was to compare the associations of 3 low-carbohydrate diet scores with incident T2D.

 

DESIGN:

 

A prospective cohort study was conducted in participants from the Health Professionals Follow-Up Study who were free of T2D, cardiovascular disease, or cancer at baseline (n = 40,475) for up to 20 y. Cumulative averages of 3 low-carbohydrate diet scores (high total protein and fat, high animal protein and fat, and high vegetable protein and fat) were calculated every 4 y from food-frequency questionnaires and were associated with incident T2D by using Cox models.

 

RESULTS:

 

We documented 2689 cases of T2D during follow-up. After adjustments for age, smoking, physical activity, coffee intake, alcohol intake, family history of T2D, total energy intake, and body mass index, the score for high animal protein and fat was associated with an increased risk of T2D [top compared with bottom quintile; hazard ratio (HR): 1.37; 95% CI: 1.20, 1.58; P for trend < 0.01]. Adjustment for red and processed meat attenuated this association (HR: 1.11; 95% CI: 0.95, 1.30; P for trend = 0.20). A high score for vegetable protein and fat was not significantly associated with the risk of T2D overall but was inversely associated with T2D in men aged <65 y (HR: 0.78; 95% CI: 0.66, 0.92; P for trend = 0.01, P for interaction = 0.01).

 

CONCLUSIONS:

 

A score representing a low-carbohydrate diet high in animal protein and fat was positively associated with the risk of T2D in men. Low-carbohydrate diets should obtain protein and fat from foods other than red and processed meat.

 

 

[misterE]

 

This post is rubbish.

 

 

 

 

So, so wrong on so many levels.

 

 

 

 

I'm not even going to argue this. The research is there, if you want to ignore it and risk diabetes; be my guest.

[sensei]

 

 

This post is rubbish.

 

 

 

 

So, so wrong on so many levels.

 

 

 

 

I'm not even going to argue this. The research is there, if you want to ignore it and risk diabetes; be my guest.

 

Your studies don't say anything of the sort

 

Study 1 does not even address LC and T2D;

 

It adressess RED meat

 

"Adjustment for red and processed meat attenuated this association"

 

(nitrates could be the etiological agent-- processed meat) --but that isn't the conclusion either

 

It specifically call out Fat and protein sources in study 2 - Conclusion:

 

"Low-carbohydrate diets should obtain protein and fat from foods other than red and processed meat.".

 

Your posts are a joke.

 

 

 

In fact the conclusion of your study #1 -- (which was a meta analysis not a cohort and placebo controlled study anyway states)

 

 

"whereas a vegetable-based low-carbohydrate diet was associated with lower all-cause and cardiovascular disease mortality rates."

 

Do you even read what you post?

 

I mean really you just proved my point.

Edited by sensei, 30 December 2014 - 02:15 PM.

[Mind]

What about Okinawans, who gain 85% of calories in their diet from carbohydrates? And 80% of these calories come from their staple food - purple sweet potatoes, which contain 3 times more sugar than regular potatoes.

http://1.bp.blogspot...tific Study.jpg\

 

http://health.clevel...h-is-healthier/

 

BTW next year I plan to start growing these potatoes here in the north. Potatoes look something like that: http://www.povarenok...4135/413545.jpg

http://domicad.net.u...ofel-gurman.jpg http://miragro.com/s...iy_kartofel.jpg Hope they don't differ too much from their Okinawan cousines.

 

Okinawans practice calorie restriction, which is the main point of contention here. Eat too many carbs/fats/protein and you get fat. Get diabetes. Get ill. Reference: See America.

 

Practice calorie restriction and you can eat almost any macronutrient ratio and remain healthier than the general population.

 

Also, the longest lived person in the world ate a shit-ton (very scientific terminology here) of fat, and almost all documented super-centenarians were omivorous, which should tell you that diet is miniscule in comparison to your genetic potential. The diet wars are a religious conviction for vegans (which is fine)...don't waste your time arguing religion/faith. Spend your time and money supporting LongeCity research, SENS research, Methuselah foundation research, etc... if you want to live indefinitely into the future.

Edited by Mind, 30 December 2014 - 08:05 PM.

[misterE]

. Eat too many carbs/fats/protein and you get fat. Get diabetes. Get ill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If only it were that simple. You do realize mind, that storing fat doesn't causes diabetes? Its actually lipolysis (fat-breakdown) that underlines diabetes.

 

Even starvation for long periods of time will cause diabetes, due to increased fat-breakdown and increased FFAs.

[sensei]

 

. Eat too many carbs/fats/protein and you get fat. Get diabetes. Get ill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If only it were that simple. You do realize mind, that storing fat doesn't causes diabetes? Its actually lipolysis (fat-breakdown) that underlines diabetes.

 

Even starvation for long periods of time will cause diabetes, due to increased fat-breakdown and increased FFAs.

 

 

Ketogenic diet for epilepsy -- lifetime

 

http://www.epilepsy..../ketogenic-diet

[Chupo]

Even a modest reduction in carbs results in improvement in ectopic fat, insulin sensitivity and lean vs fat mass (protein was held constant).

 

 

BACKGROUND:

 

Obesity, particularly visceral and ectopic adiposity, increases the risk of type 2 diabetes.

 

OBJECTIVE:

 

The aim of this study was to determine if restriction of dietary carbohydrate is beneficial for body composition and metabolic health.

 

METHODS:

 

Two studies were conducted. In the first, 69 overweight/obese men and women, 53% of whom were European American (EA) and 47% of whom were African American (AA), were provided with 1 of 2 diets (lower-fat diet: 55%, 18%, and 27% of energy from carbohydrate, protein, and fat, respectively; lower-carbohydrate diet: 43%, 18%, and 39%, respectively) for 8 wk at a eucaloric level and 8 wk at a hypocaloric level. In the second study, 30 women with polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) were provided with 2 diets (lower-fat diet: 55%, 18%, and 27% of energy from carbohydrate, protein, and fat, respectively; lower-carbohydrate diet: 41%, 19%, and 40%, respectively) at a eucaloric level for 8 wk in a random-order crossover design.

 

RESULTS:

 

As previously reported, among overweight/obese adults, after the eucaloric phase, participants who consumed the lower-carbohydrate vs. the lower-fat diet lost more intra-abdominal adipose tissue (IAAT) (11 ± 3% vs. 1 ± 3%; P < 0.05). After weight loss, participants who consumed the lower-carbohydrate diet had 4.4% less total fat mass. Original to this report, across the entire 16-wk study, AAs lost more fat mass with a lower-carbohydrate diet (6.2 vs. 2.9 kg; P < 0.01), whereas EAs showed no difference between diets. As previously reported, among women with PCOS, the lower-carbohydrate arm showed decreased fasting insulin (-2.8 μIU/mL; P < 0.001) and fasting glucose (-4.7 mg/dL; P < 0.01) and increased insulin sensitivity (1.06 arbitrary units; P < 0.05) and "dynamic" β-cell response (96.1 · 10(9); P < 0.001). In the lower-carbohydrate arm, women lost both IAAT (-4.8 cm(2); P < 0.01) and intermuscular fat (-1.2 cm(2); P < 0.01). In the lower-fat arm, women lost lean mass (-0.6 kg; P < 0.05). Original to this report, after the lower-carbohydrate arm, the change in IAAT was positively associated with the change in tumor necrosis factor α (P < 0.05).

 

CONCLUSION:

 

A modest reduction in dietary carbohydrate has beneficial effects on body composition, fat distribution, and glucose metabolism. This trial was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as NCT00726908 and NCT01028989.

 

A lower-carbohydrate, higher-fat diet reduces abdominal and intermuscular fat and increases insulin sensitivity in adults at risk of type 2 diabetes.

[misterE]

J Nutr Metab. 2012;2012:525093.

 

Glucocorticoids and type 2 diabetes: from physiology to pathology.

 

Di Dalmazi G, Pagotto U, Pasquali R, Vicennati V.

 

Abstract

 

Type 2 diabetes mellitus is the result of interaction between genetic and environmental factors, leading to heterogeneous and progressive pancreatic β-cell dysfunction. Overweight and obesity are major contributors to the development of insulin resistance and impaired glucose tolerance. The inability of β cells to secrete enough insulin produces type 2 diabetes. Abnormalities in other hormones such as reduced secretion of the incretin glucagon-like peptide 1 (GLP-1), hyperglucagonemia, and raised concentrations of other counterregulatory hormones also contribute to insulin resistance, reduced insulin secretion, and hyperglycaemia in type 2 diabetes. Clinical-overt and experimental cortisol excess is associated with profound metabolic disturbances of intermediate metabolism resulting in abdominal obesity, insulin resistance, and low HDL-cholesterol levels, which can lead to diabetes. It was therefore suggested that subtle abnormalities in cortisol secretion and action are one of the missing links between insulin resistance and other features of the metabolic syndrome. The aim of this paper is to address the role of glucocorticoids on glucose homeostasis and to explain the relationship between hypercortisolism and type 2 diabetes.

[misterE]

The above study shows that excessive amounts of cortisol contribute to the development of metabolic-syndrome. So below I will post a study looking a what a diet consisting of meat... or a diet consisting of whole-grains will do to not only cortisol (which contributes to diabetes), but another set of hormones that are protective against diabetes; testosterone and SHBG.

 

Lets see what the results show:

[misterE]

Life Sci. 1987 May 4;40(18):1761-8.

Diet-hormone interactions: protein/carbohydrate ratio alters reciprocally the plasma levels of testosterone and cortisol and their respective binding globulins in man.

Anderson KE, Rosner W, Khan MS.

Abstract

The aim of this study was to determine if a change in protein/carbohydrate ratio influences plasma steroid hormone concentrations. There is little information about the effects of specific dietary components on steroid hormone metabolism in humans. Testosterone concentrations in seven normal men were consistently higher after ten days on a high carbohydrate diet (468 +/- 34 ng/dl, mean +/- S.E.) than during a high protein diet (371 +/- 23 ng/dl, p less than 0.05) and were accompanied by parallel changes in sex hormone binding globulin (32.5 +/- 2.8 nmol/l vs. 23.4 +/- 1.6 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.01). By contrast, cortisol concentrations were consistently lower during the high carbohydrate diet than during the high protein diet (7.74 +/- 0.71 micrograms/dl vs. 10.6 +/- 0.4 micrograms/dl respectively, p less than 0.05), and there were parallel changes in corticosteroid binding globulin concentrations (635 +/- 60 nmol/l vs. 754 +/- 31 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.05). The diets were equal in total calories and fat. These consistent and reciprocal changes suggest that the ratio of protein to carbohydrate in the human diet is an important regulatory factor for steroid hormone plasma levels and for liver-derived hormone binding proteins.

[sensei]

 

 

Also, the longest lived person in the world ate a shit-ton (very scientific terminology here) of fat, and almost all documented super-centenarians were omivorous, which should tell you that diet is miniscule in comparison to your genetic potential. The diet wars are a religious conviction for vegans (which is fine)...don't waste your time arguing religion/faith. Spend your time and money supporting LongeCity research, SENS research, Methuselah foundation research, etc... if you want to live indefinitely into the future.

 

 

Shit-ton being that she (Jean Calment) drowned her food in olive oil -- every meal according to the historians.  Apparently she also bathed in the stuff (well full body rub downs).

 

She also ate a kilo of dark chocolate a week (yup 2 lbs of the stuff) and drank a glass or two of port wine (probably a mix of port and red wine) daily; plus a cigarette a day.

[Darryl]

FWIW, here's a sampling of studies that demonstrate high carbohydrate/low fat diets improve insulin sensitivity and reduce or eliminate drug requirements in diabetics:

 

Rabinowitch, 1935. Effects of the high carbohydrate-low calorie diet upon carbohydrate tolerance in diabetes mellitus. Canadian Medical Association Journal, 33(2), p.136.

Singh, 1955. Low-fat diet and therapeutic doses of insulin in diabetes mellitus. The Lancet, 265(6861), pp.422-425.

Kempner et al, 1958. Effect of rice diet on diabetes mellitus associated with vascular disease. Postgraduate medicine, 24(4), pp.359-371.

Kiehm et al, 1976. Beneficial effects of a high carbohydrate, high fiber diet on hyperglycemic diabetic men. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 29(8), pp.895-899.

Anderson, 1977. Effect of carbohydrate restriction and high carbohydrates diets on men with chemical diabetes. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 30(3), pp.402-408.

Anderson and Ward, 1979. High-carbohydrate, high-fiber diets for insulin-treated men with diabetes mellitus. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 32(11), pp.2312-2321.

Viswanathan et al, 1981. High carbohydrate high in fibre diet in diabetes. Jour Diab Asso Ind, 21(Suppl 1), pp.90-6.

Barnard et al, 1982. Response of non-insulin-dependent diabetic patients to an intensive program of diet and exercise. Diabetes care, 5(4), pp.370-374.

Barnard et al, 1983. Long-term use of a high-complex-carbohydrate, high-fiber, low-fat diet and exercise in the treatment of NIDDM patients. Diabetes Care, 6(3), pp.268-273.

Barnard et al, 1994. Diet and exercise in the treatment of NIDDM: the need for early emphasis. Diabetes Care, 17(12), pp.1469-1472.

Nicholson et al, 1999. Toward improved management of NIDDM: A randomized, controlled, pilot intervention using a lowfat, vegetarian diet. Preventive medicine, 29(2), pp.87-91.

Barnard et al, 2005. The effects of a low-fat, plant-based dietary intervention on body weight, metabolism, and insulin sensitivity. The American journal of medicine, 118(9), pp.991-997.

Barnard et al, 2006. A low-fat vegan diet improves glycemic control and cardiovascular risk factors in a randomized clinical trial in individuals with type 2 diabetes. Diabetes care, 29(8), pp.1777-1783.

Sullivan and Samuel, 2006. Effect of short‐term Pritikin diet therapy on the metabolic syndrome. Journal of the cardiometabolic syndrome, 1(5), pp.308-312.

Barnard et al, 2009. A low-fat vegan diet and a conventional diabetes diet in the treatment of type 2 diabetes: a randomized, controlled, 74-wk clinical trial. The American journal of clinical nutrition, pp.ajcn-26736H.

 

Would a high protein diet also offer some short term benefits? Yes, as obesity contributes to circulating free fatty acids involved in the pathology, anything that brings weight loss offers improvement. The one thing high protein diets bring to the table is increased satiety, in my opinion mostly through activating hypothalamic mTOR. And longevity studies have a lot to say about mTOR activation: its counterproductive.