10 replies to this topic

[maxwatt]

It is possible to overdose on niacinamide http://www.livestron...amide-overdose/   (laymen's summary on the subject, There is also one in wikipedia with references to journals)The overdose amount is around three grams.  Since niacinamide is nicotinamide (same molecule, different names) then nicotinamide riboside (NR) could theoretically be overdosed.  As niacinamide accounts for roughly half the weight of the NR molecule, more than 6 grams would possibly cause the symptoms of niacinamide toxicity, which include nausea, dizziness and falls, bleeding ulcers and so forth.

 

So this seems to imply an upper limit on NR supplementation, unless different pathways are involved.....

[hav]

When I tried to follow LiveStrong's references, the only one that worked was the NIH page which lumps Niacin and Niacinamide together.  The Other Names section seems to indicate they consider all these the same:

 

http://www.nlm.nih.g...html#OtherNames

 

3-Pyridine Carboxamide, 3-Pyridinecarboxylic Acid, Acide Nicotinique, Acide Pyridine-Carboxylique-3, Amide de l’Acide Nicotinique, Anti-Blacktongue Factor, Antipellagra Factor, B Complex Vitamin, Complexe de Vitamines B, Facteur Anti-Pellagre, Niacin-Niacinamide, Niacin/Niacinamide, Niacina y Niacinamida, Niacinamide, Niacine, Niacine et Niacinamide, Nicamid, Nicosedine, Nicotinamide, Nicotinic Acid, Nicotinic Acid Amide, Nicotylamidum, Pellagra Preventing Factor, Vitamin B3, Vitamin PP, Vitamina B3, Vitamine B3, Vitamine PP.

 

But makes no mention of NR or NMN.  This article indicates that the Niacin (NA) GPR109A pathway is different which avoids the flushing side effect:

 

http://www.cell.com/...(12)00192-1.pdf

 

Unlike NA, both NR and another well-described NAD+ precursor, NMN (Revollo et al., 2007), did not activate GPR109A (Figure 1B), hence constituting valuable candidates to increase NAD+ levels without activating GPR109A.

 

Makes me wonder is any of the Niacin side effects pertain to Nicotinamide Riboside or Nicotinamide Mononucleotide.

 

Howard

 

[Bryan_S]

Regardless since (NR) gets plugged into the salvage cycle and niacinamide is a byproduct I'd say this is a relevant discussion. What I'm scratching my head over is why this thread died in the first place. 

 

Nicotinamide Mononucleotide is a none topic since its broken down into (NAM) in the digestive track anyway. Niacinamide research is relevant but remains largely unchallenged because it dates back so far, I think like 60 or 70 years. A problem I see mentioned in the data on Niacinamide is often the samples were contaminated with Niacin and Niacin as we all know exhibits some toxicity at high doses for long periods of time. It is however widely excepted that Niacinamide is relatively safe up to 3 grams per day for an adult male, under a doctors supervision. With Niacinamide LD50 studies have been run on rabbits and rats so data is available. As far as long term Niacinamide studies the data becomes sketchy after one year but I remember a 3 year study and will post a link if I can find it.

[mikeinnaples]

Weren't the Nicotinic Acid hepatoxicity concerns mainly with the sustained released formulas rather than immediate release? I believe I recall that being the case. In fact, iirc those concerns were almost non-existent for immediate release NA at reasonable dosages (i.e. amounts typically used to treat cholesterol)

 

Also, the flush issue with Niacin goes, that is easily avoidable either by starting small and slowly amping up your dosage over a few weeks to your desired level. Also, taking an aspirin prior to the Niacin can reduce or eliminate the flushing. Given that many people are already taking at least a baby aspirin daily for its health benefits as well as some prior discussion on possible synergistic effects between the two, seems an easy call to make regarding supplement timing.

[Bryan_S]

The question was "How much is too much Nicotinamide Riboside" and I cant find any data. Niacinamide research is somewhat relevant to this question because NR will become NAM after it becomes NAD+ and NADH but I cant find anything on NR toxicity. Nicotinic Acid hepatoxicity concerns were mainly with the sustained release formulas as you suggested, it also takes a different path the Three-step Preiss-Handler pathway, Something along that path taxes the liver in producing Nicotinamide (NAM). Nicotinamide riboside on the other hand takes the Nrk pathway or nucleoside phosphorylated and Nampt pathways. However once the coenzyme is metabolized it adds to the (NAMR) Salvage pathway like Nicotinamide (NAM) where I think we can use Nicotinamide (NAM) data to suggest upper intake limits.

 

 

The Tolerable Upper Intake Levels of Nicotinic Acid and Nicotinamide (Niacin) URL link 

 

We need some new data because Nicotinamide (NAM) is not going to translate into the Nicotinamide Riboside tolerable upper intake levels which is what I think maxwatt was looking for. I take 1 gram per day but have heard comments of people taking up to 4 grams per day. I think the expense is the limiting factor more than what our bodies can tolerate.

[Climactic]

I repeatably had a canker sore from 500mg x1 Niagen after four days. I took it as a sign of an overdose. I discontinued Niagen and the canker sore gradually disappeared in three days. Note that the experiment was repeated, and I don't get canker sores otherwise. I now use Niagen at a lower dose of 200+100mg, and thus far the adverse effect hasn't returned.

Edited by Climactic, 26 February 2017 - 12:06 AM.

[normalizing]

not sure about this. i took grams of it in hope it helps me with energy, depression and so on, and it never works. im jealous you guys benefit from it from such tiny doses as 250mg :(

[zorba990]

I repeatably had a canker sore from 500mg x1 Niagen after four days. I took it as a sign of an overdose. I discontinued Niagen and the canker sore gradually disappeared in three days. Note that the experiment was repeated, and I don't get canker sores otherwise. I now use Niagen at a lower dose of 200+100mg, and thus far the adverse effect hasn't returned.

That's interesting, since mouth sores are also reported with certain dose threshold of rapamycin. I wonder if the mechanism of action is similar.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19061651

Oral ulcers in kidney allograft recipients treated with sirolimus

[Oakman]

Over the last 6 mos I've tried several amounts from 125mg/d to 750mg/d using 250mg caps. Once I had some chest soreness a while ago, but it went away. Now, after getting some 333mg caps (ProHealth), for the last 10 days I've been on 666mg AM, 333mg PM with no ill effects, in fact feeling quite good, and certainly no ill effects.

 

Thinking that age (IOW being old) may have a lot to do with how much can be utilized in the body without ill effects, and so why 1g/day seems to be working for myself.

[youthseeker]

When ever I try to take more than 500mg a day, i crash- sleeping in the middle of the day for 2-3 hours, and this is after getting 8 hours of sleep! I have been taking 500 mg a day for several months and i noticed I am once again napping every day in the afternoons. I assumed it was low b12 again ( i have problems absorbing it and sometimes have to inject it) so I scheduled a blood test, but I realized it might be Niagen so I stopped taking it and I feel great now. I suppose there is a threshold and for me it doesnt take much to max out and pass out. I will cycle Niagen from now on, and not exceed 1 month of dosing at 500 mg. Anyone else have problems like this?

[PeaceAndProsperity]

not sure about this. i took grams of it in hope it helps me with energy, depression and so on, and it never works. im jealous you guys benefit from it from such tiny doses as 250mg :(

Because it's a waste of time and money, my friend. It all about patentnin. Stick to nicotinic acid and reap the benefits of better health and a more full wallet.