78 replies to this topic

[DAMI]

More evidence for harmful effects of Whole Wheat:

According to this study it significantly increases oxidized LDL.  http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12196421

 

I think that increasing ones vegetable intake is a safer way of getting enough prebiotics than eating whole wheat products...

[timar]

More evidence for harmful effects of Whole Wheat:

 

Nonsense. First of all, the study tested for the effects of fiber intake, not for wheat or even whole wheat (both control and intervention diets provided wheat bread, the only difference being the intervention bread was enriched with bran. White flour with added bran, however, is not whole wheat). Second, the study was a mess in several aspects. Adherance was abysmal - almost two thirds of the participants dropped out (44 of 67!!) and the authors had to disregard the intention-to-treat principle when analyzing the few remaining participants. They tested a large array of biomarkers but the only hardly significant difference they found was a tiny increase in oxLDL.

 

Cherry picking outdated, low-quality studies like this and present their results out of context and drawing inappropriate conclusions (of course the authors of this study knew better than to suggest any causality between the wheat germ and the small increase in oxLDL) is exactly the method of disinformation sensationalist authors and nutritional ideologists like Taubes or Davis rely on in order convince their audience and to turn their gospel into an extremely profitable milion dollar business of bestselling books and workshops.

 

There are dozens of RCTs specifically done with whole wheat, consistently showing beneficial effects from the intervention (just search for "whole wheat" and "trial" on pubmed to see for yourself) - not to speak of all the epidemiological research consistently associating whole grain consumption with risk reductions. One small outlier like this doesn't take away from the evidence in favor of whole grains or whole wheat any more than taking a bucket full of water from a swimming pool lowers the pool's water line.

 

This is what the most recent meta analysis on whole grain consumption and risk of coronary heart disease found:

 

Ultimately, fourteen reports of 18 studies (15 cohort studies and 3 case-control studies) involving 14,427 patients with CHD and 400,492 participants were used in this meta-analysis. Pooled results suggested that highest whole-grain intake amount compared with the lowest amount was significantly associated with reduced risk for CHD (summary relative risk 0.787, 95% confidence interval 0.743 to 0.833), with no between-study heterogeneity observed (I(2) = 0%, p = 0.537).

 

This are the results of a large-scale US population study so recent they aren't even included in the above meta analysis:

 

Over an average of 14 years of follow-up, a total of 46,067 deaths were documented. Consumption of whole grains were inversely associated with risk of all-cause mortality and death from cancer, cardiovascular disease (CVD), diabetes, respiratory disease, infections, and other causes. In multivariable models, as compared with individuals with the lowest intakes, those in the highest intake of whole grains had a 17% (95% CI, 14–19%) lower risk of all-cause mortality and 11–48% lower risk of disease-specific mortality (all P for trend <0.023); those in the highest intake of cereal fiber had a 19% (95% CI, 16–21%) lower risk of all-cause mortality and 15–34% lower risk of disease-specific mortality (all P for trend <0.005).

 

(And no, 99% of those people were not exlusively eating brown rice and quinoa ).

Edited by timar, 20 May 2015 - 11:29 PM.

[timar]

At last - Matt Stone and Trey Parker picked up on the gluten phobia. A hilarious episode! Of course they also take the occasion to make fun of the USDA and the low carb craze... I think I'll now have to look where to get some good, gluten-free beer

 

http://southpark.cc....uten-free-ebola

Edited by timar, 20 July 2015 - 06:43 PM.

[ceridwen]

People in Britain can't watch that

[timar]

Poeple in Germany neither. I think only US IPs are allowed on this site due to licencing constraints. There are proxy servers, though...

[ImmortalSpace]

Gluten severely damages your Microbiome. It's scientifically known that gluten does severe damage to your body.

 

Seriously, just switch to almond flower, cashew flower, or macadamia nut flower etc... if you care about your health avoid gluten. The science is direct, clear and consistent.

 

Referecnes: Brain Maker by Dr. Perlmutter, Grain Brain by Dr. Perlmutter.

[timar]

Gluten severely damages your Microbiome. It's scientifically known that gluten does severe damage to your body.

 

Worst of all: Gluten makes your dick fly off  !!!1  
 

[DAMI]

 

(And no, 99% of those people were not exlusively eating brown rice and quinoa ).

 

Not exclusively, but more so than the general population. The improved health of these people can be explained by the fact that:

- they eat less wheat than others and are thus less exposed to its detrimental effects

- they eat more non-wheat grains like oats and experience their benefits (like lowered ldl-p)

 

The DART study has demonstrated that - all discussion on biomarkes aside - whole wheat increases the risk of heart disease:

http://www.nature.co...l/1601342a.html

 

Just look at this table:

http://www.nature.co.../1601342t4.html  The increase in risk for coronary heart disease was significant in the period of 0-2 years!

 

 

[aza]

The only grain i am positive is healthy is oats, which i usually eat sprouted. Although im sure there are other healthy grains, i haven't looked at many varieties. i consider whole wheat (the dwarf variety anyways) to be meh at best and harmful at worst, so i dont see much point in eating it often. Oh and quinoa is not a grain :]

 

 

Edited by aza, 21 August 2015 - 05:39 AM.

[iseethelight]

It comes down to the individual. Wheat/ GrainsGluten are not bad in general. They're unhhealthy to a percentage of the population who can't digest them properly and respond poorly to them. The issue people have with the anti-gluten paleo gurus is that they preach that grains are bad for everyone because primitive humans didn't eat grain. 

[TheFountain]

 

 

Well, it's really simple: in the long run (often all too long, alas!) truth prevails over fads and hysteria. 

 

Where is the evidence and scientific peer review of this so called 'truth'? 

 

Duh. Where is the peer-reviewed evidence for aliens having not landed on planet earth? Gluten containing grains have been a dietary staple for much of the world's pupulation for thousands of years. Durum wheat, used to make pasta and bulgur, is one of the most ancient strains of wheat and contains quite a lot of gluten. Saitan, a traditional meat substitute from east asia, is made from purified gluten. Gluten sensitivity, on the other hand, seems to be en vogue only for about 20 years. So of course it is up to those claiming that we are experiencing a sudden epidemy of gluten sensitivity to deliver the evidence for their theory, not the other way around. When it comes to the arguments brought forth by Davis and Perlmutter in their non-peer-reviewed bestsellers, the paper I linked above does a good job of debunking them.

 

 

Oh and to answer your Alien question, go read Chariots of the Gods. 

[TheFountain]

It comes down to the individual. Wheat/ GrainsGluten are not bad in general. They're unhhealthy to a percentage of the population who can't digest them properly and respond poorly to them. The issue people have with the anti-gluten paleo gurus is that they preach that grains are bad for everyone because primitive humans didn't eat grain. 

No we're talking Wheat mainly. Most of us Paleo diet enthusiasts simply suggest keeping grains to a minimum of calorie intake and to eliminate wheat, since so many symptoms people have from digestive issues to joint pain, have been linked with gluten sensitivity. Which points to the majority of us being genetically unequiped to consume it in anything but tiny quantities. Fact not fad. 

The only grain i am positive is healthy is oats, which i usually eat sprouted. Although im sure there are other healthy grains, i haven't looked at many varieties. i consider whole wheat (the dwarf variety anyways) to be meh at best and harmful at worst, so i dont see much point in eating it often. Oh and quinoa is not a grain :]

What about quinoa? 

[timar]

Oh and to answer your Alien question, go read Chariots of the Gods. 

 

Thanks for providing this reference, as it is quite revealing. Auhtors like Erich von Däniken and William Davis have a lot in common indeed. Both base their sensationist thesis or 'sciency' fairy tales on an extremely biased and selective perception of historic or medical evidence, dressed in an exciting, rhetorically refined writing style which makes it easy to fall prey to their phantasms if one lacks the necessary education and critical thinking skills (i.e. detecting the logical fallacies routinely employed by those authors, weighting a piece of evidence against all the other evidence not presentend in the argumentation, considering other possible and often much more plausible hypothesis, etc,)
 

Edited by timar, 18 October 2015 - 09:04 AM.

[TheFountain]

 

Oh and to answer your Alien question, go read Chariots of the Gods. 

 

Thanks for providing this reference, as it is quite revealing. Auhtors like Erich von Däniken and William Davis have a lot in common indeed. Both base their sensationist thesis or 'sciency' fairy tales on an extremely biased and selective perception of historic or medical evidence, dressed in an exciting, rhetorically refined writing style which makes it easy to fall prey to their phantasms if one lacks the necessary education and critical thinking skills (i.e. detecting the logical fallacies routinely employed by those authors, weighting a piece of evidence against all the other evidence not presentend in the argumentation, considering other possible and often much more plausible hypothesis, etc,)
 

 

Are we making unsubstantiated psycho-analyses of authors now? 

 

Aren't we on the high end of "boy, don't I know what the fuck i'm talking about"? 

 

On another high low end note, I see you've been to egypt to explore all the ruins first hand? Similarly, I see you've studied every individual who 'claims' gluten intolerance and entered their esophagus, then their digestive tract and touched their gut villa with your microscopic fingertips, thus determinately discovering how very wrong they are in their illogical, mass psychosis induced hallucinations?

 

How dare anybody question an exquisite academician like yourself with so much first hand experience? 

[vader]

The only grain i am positive is healthy is oats, which i usually eat sprouted. Although im sure there are other healthy grains, i haven't looked at many varieties. i consider whole wheat (the dwarf variety anyways) to be meh at best and harmful at worst, so i dont see much point in eating it often. Oh and quinoa is not a grain :]

 

Rye is better than oats, imho. Soluble fibre seems good for high-fat crowd, but if you eat a low fat vegan diet, then soluble fibre is useless at best, detrimental at worst.

 

Buckwheat, rye and oats should be a staple breakfast along with some raisins. Possibly unmodified corn, for the extremely high antioxidant levels too.

Edited by vader, 26 October 2015 - 02:54 PM.

[123apk]

The conspiracy theory explanation would probably go something like this - They need us to keep eating wheat and other cereals because we couldn't support such massive populations on meat, dairy and fruit & veg alone. So they're suppressing the truth to keep populations high, capitalism going via the majority of the earth's population who are worker drones and to keep funding the pharmaceutical companies which make drugs to treat the diseases associated with the diets.

[TheFountain]

The conspiracy theory explanation would probably go something like this - They need us to keep eating wheat and other cereals because we couldn't support such massive populations on meat, dairy and fruit & veg alone. So they're suppressing the truth to keep populations high, capitalism going via the majority of the earth's population who are worker drones and to keep funding the pharmaceutical companies which make drugs to treat the diseases associated with the diets.

But Wheat is far from the only grain available to consume in large quantities! Oats are definitely better and Corn is arguably better. 

[123apk]

 

The conspiracy theory explanation would probably go something like this - They need us to keep eating wheat and other cereals because we couldn't support such massive populations on meat, dairy and fruit & veg alone. So they're suppressing the truth to keep populations high, capitalism going via the majority of the earth's population who are worker drones and to keep funding the pharmaceutical companies which make drugs to treat the diseases associated with the diets.

But Wheat is far from the only grain available to consume in large quantities! Oats are definitely better and Corn is arguably better. 

 

 

But we (the proles) want bread and cakes, not porridge. 

 

 

Seriously though, I do suspect the advice on food groups probably over inflates carbs a little since they're cheap and filling, nutrient dense and mass producible. Personally I know I couldn't afford to eat Paleo, maybe a high protein diet though if it consisted mainly of legumes. My carbs of choice are rice and tatters anyway, not much of a bread eater myself, it isn't very exciting really.

Sometimes I'll binge on cakes and sweets if I go to the shops hungry and my self control is down, then feel tired afterwards. Think this might be from the insulin spike and subsequent crash. That's really the only time I eat much made from wheat though and I'm very slim as were most people here up to the 1970s when the diet was mainly still meat and potatoes.

[kurdishfella]

Gluten if you have celiac (or any other gut problem) can affect your intelligence tremendously, because it affects (negatively) nutrient absorption and thus hinders growth and development of brain and health.