92 replies to this topic

[AlmostEasy]

I'll try to keep this concise and to the point, I tend to rant.

I created several posts in the Mental Health forum but that only gets so much attention and at the risk of being obnoxious I'd like to extend this to as many eyes with neurochemistry knowledge as I can.  
You can find my original one here and my follow up here.

 

To start off I am male, 26 years old, 6"0' 170 pounds, problems started around ~19-20 years of age with a very prolonged and gradual progression to its current state.  It seems to have plateaued. 
 
Here are the exact symptoms I am experiencing *note I am not definitively claiming this is my actual diagnosis:

Spoiler

"Negative" symptoms of Schizophrenia , these symptoms are the lack of important abilities. Some of these include:
Alogia, or poverty of speech, is the lessening of speech fluency and productivity, thought to reflect slowing or blocked thoughts, and often manifested as short, empty replies to questions.

Affective flattening is the reduction in the range and intensity of emotional expression, including facial expression, voice tone, eye contact (person seems to stare, doesn't maintain eye contact in a normal process), and is not able to interpret body language nor use appropriate body language.

Avolition is the reduction, difficulty, or inability to initiate and persist in goal-directed behavior; it is often mistaken for apparent disinterest. (examples of avolition include: no longer interested in going out and meeting with friends, no longer interested in activities that the person used to show enthusiasm for, no longer interested in much of anything, sitting in the house for many hours a day doing nothing.)

A short summary of a list of negative symptoms are:

• lack of emotion - the inability to enjoy regular activities (visiting with friends, etc.) as much as before
• Low energy - the person tends to sit around and sleep much more than normal
• lack of interest in life, low motivation
• Affective flattening - a blank, blunted facial expression or less lively facial movements, flat voice (lack of normal intonations and variance) or physical movements.
• Alogia (difficulty or inability to speak)
• Inappropriate social skills or lack of interest or ability to socialize with other people
• Inability to make friends or keep friends, or not caring to have friends
• Social isolation - person spends most of the day alone or only with close family

Note: Only one Criterion A symptom is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running commentary on the person’s behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices conversing with each other.

Cognitive Symptoms of Schizophrenia
Cognitive symptoms refer to the difficulties with concentration and memory. These can include:

• disorganized thinking
• slow thinking
• difficulty understanding
• poor concentration
• poor memory
• difficulty expressing thoughts
• difficulty integrating thoughts, feelings and behavior

 

This is commonly thought of as the "Negative/Cognitive" symptoms of Schizophrenia.  It is very interesting that I experience none of the "Positive" symptoms which include:

Spoiler

Two (or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated):[/size]

• Delusions - false beliefs strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: for example,
  • Paranoid delusions, or delusions of persecution, for example believing that people are "out to get" you, or the thought that people are doing things when there is no external evidence that such things are taking place.
  • Delusions of reference - when things in the environment seem to be directly related to you even though they are not. For example it may seem as if people are talking about you or special personal messages are being communicated to you through the TV, radio, or other media.
  • Somatic Delusions are false beliefs about your body - for example that a terrible physical illness exists or that something foreign is inside or passing through your body.
  • Delusions of grandeur - for example when you believe that you are very special or have special powers or abilities. An example of a grandiouse delusion is thinking you are a famous rock star.
• Hallucinations - Hallucinations can take a number of different forms - they can be:
  • Visual (seeing things that are not there or that other people cannot see),
  • Auditory (hearing voices that other people can't hear,
  • Tactile (feeling things that other people don't feel or something touching your skin that isn't there.)
  • Olfactory (smelling things that other people cannot smell, or not smelling the same thing that other people do smell)
  • Gustatory experiences (tasting things that isn't there)
• Disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence) - these are also called "word salads". Ongoing disjointed or rambling monologues - in which a person seems to talking to himself/herself or imagined people or voices.
• Grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior (An abnormal condition variously characterized by stupor/innactivity, mania, and either rigidity or extreme flexibility of the limbs).

 

A more anecdotal description (which I find to be more emotion invoking, it strikes a nerve so to speak):

Spoiler

What are the Negative Symptoms?
In a nutshell, the negative symptoms of schizophrenia can best be conceptualized as a loss of personality.  The word “Negative” is used to describes a “loss” of emotional range and interpersonal function.
Symptoms vary, but many people with schizophrenia experience a decrement in individual initiative, depth of interests, and social fluency.  Verbal communication is affected, with poor descriptive power, decreased range of tone, and reduced complexity.
In many with schizophrenia these symptoms inhibit effective socialization.  Opportunities for personal growth and development grow scarce as the individual’s personal initiative and pursuit of goals becomes more and more blunted.  Apathy and inertia can eventually set in completely, and pursuits that seemed a reason to live are abandoned and forgotten.
What are the Cognitive Symptoms?
Cognitive Symptoms have been found to occur in multiple areas of brain function in people with schizophrenia, and they are often just as devastating as the more overt symptoms of the disorder.
At this point, multiple areas of cognitive dysfunction have been identified for research in schizophrenia.  Trouble with short and long-term memory process can make mastery of new information and skills very difficult.  Sometimes, despite studying harder than ever, individuals with schizophrenia can barely remember what they have read a few hours before.  Fortunately, today we have more to offer patients through off-label medications and nutrients that have been shown to be helpful in research.
Finally, the negative and cognitive symptoms of schizophrenia often overlap in destructive ways.  While it may be difficult to develop a new plan or solution due to cognitive difficulties, removing personal motivation and initiative can make simple goals nearly impossible.  Cognition may be impaired, but often so are the basic internal drives that create the machinery for motivation and mental stamina. This aspect of the illness can be particularly difficult and painful for family members to cope with.
Regarding Working Memory
Brain functions involved in planning and executing routine functions rely heavily uponWorking Memory (WM).  WM refers to the immediate, gestalt-level understanding ofwhat is occurring referenced to what has just occurred.  WM reminds us of the umbrella we left by the door, even if it has stopped raining when we leave.  It nags that the kettle is on, and it keeps us mindful that our appointment is at 3 pm.  It helps remind us to put the groceries in the fridge after being interrupted by a call from a friend.
In many ways, WM places a person in time both functionally and experientially and allows executive function to occur with a minimum of hassle.
In schizophrenia however, WM is often adversely affected and adverse fallout occurs in downstream layers of memory processing.  On a functional level this can be a daily irritation – important forms are forgotten for the third time, money is once again spent without collecting receipts, or the desires of a moment trump the quieter necessities of the week or month.
There can be a timeless quality to the inner experience of people with significant working memory deficits, where each day is experienced anew and without the referential and comparative processes that mark one’s place in time.

 

Here are a list of substances that I have tried but discontinued:

Spoiler

Tried (Standard/Typical Effective Negative Schizophrenia Treatments) That Didn't Help:

• Sarcosine
• Sarcosine + DAA (TestForce V2)
• Pregnenolone
• NAC - 2 g/day
• Folate (Metafolin) - tried @ 800 mcg/day for quite a while
• Abilify
• Mirtazapine
• L-Methylfolate
• Niacin
• High EPA (2g) Fish Oil

Tried (Standard/Typical Effective Negative Schizophrenia Treatments) That Did Help:

• Adderall - Not looking for habit forming band aids
• Modafinil/Armodafinil - stressful due to absurdly long half-life (lack of sleep; another band aid)

Tried (Non-typical Schizophrenia Treatments) That Didn't Help:

• Rhodiola - may try other brands
• Effexor
• Mirtazapine
• Zoloft
• Vyvanse - effective while in system, consistent 2 week depression hangover.
• Welbutrin

 

Here is a list of substances that I am currently using:

Spoiler

Current Stack (Noticably Helpful):

• Ashwagandha 500mg/day KSM-66 - THE most powerful supplement for regaining some cognition/humanity.  Tolerance definitely building, fearful I may have to cycle this to some extent.
• Lion's Mane 2g 2/day - Helps with taking mental clarity from dense debilitating fog to a sense of slight grounding and returning to some normalcy. *used with ALCAR; though I don't feel if this helping, supposed to multiply NGF up regulation

Current Stack (Testing/Unsure):

• Noopept - Week 2 @ 10mg 2/day - anxiolytic effects, supposed to boost NGF like Lion's Mane and BDNF as well.  Unsure as to whether this is helping, so it probably isn't.  Slightly sedative.
• Piracetam - Day 3 @ 1.6g 2/day - None too obvious effects, might slightly help.  May experiment with higher dosage.  Also unsure if buildup over time is needed for therapeutic effects to occur.
• Bacopa - 5 Weeks @ 600mg/day - No obvious effect

Current Stack (Health):

• Fish Oil - 1g EPA
• Vitamin D3 - 4k UI
• Magnesium - 250mg

 

Here is a list of substances that I am interesting in trying/researching more:

Spoiler

• Zyprexa - in my original thread a member of the board received relief from this while not specifically claiming schizophrenia.  I am very interested as many studies prove it significantly helps negative/cognitive symptoms like mine.  I am very worried about a negative reaction to this med, I've read some scary stories.  I also worry about long-term brain atrophy associated with anti-psychotics.
• Nefiracetam - I've not done much research on this but am seeing a lot of anecdotal reports of this cutting through a lot of brain fog, it seems to be very powerful.  It also seems to have some serious side effects.
• Minocycline
• L-Lysine ¹ - It appears to have potential to help negatives on its own.
• Reishi/Probiotics - A healthy gut appears to help with negative/cognitive like symptoms
• Ritalin (Methylphenidate)

 

Current theories and other factors to consider:

Spoiler

Potential Causes:

• Chronic cannabis use from 16-19 years of age.  Discontinued after cognition problem interfered with ability to enjoy this any longer.  Chicken or the egg?
• Low Testosterone:
  • Free Testosterone @ 8.9 ------- UNITS: pg/mL ----- Reference Range: (9.3-26.5)
    Total Testosterone @ 399 ------- UNITS: ng/dL ------ Reference Range: (348-1197)
    To my mind this warrants some sort of treatment but I was "assured" this isn't a problem.
  • I have glandular gynecomastia, and entered puberty very late.  I have barely any facial hair, it is gradually increasing.  I am tired all the time and do not get restful sleep.
  • I'm a bit afraid I will just get denied again in this regard, my doctors office said I'm under their "range" for treatment so I shouldn't worry about it. I tend to follow this ideology much more than their broken scale.
• Toxoplasmosis Gondii - ?? I have had cats, a lot of them, since a very young age (which is claimed to be the determining factor in contracting the virus).  There's hearsay that this COULD contribute to schizophrenia like symptoms.  Am going to ask the doctor about this A.S.A.P.
• Something muscular ?? - I carry enormous amounts of tension in my neck and feel very stiff overall.  This is a typical symptom of negative schizophrenia but it sticks out to me quite a lot as when I receive relief from anything it is always synonymous with the relaxation of my muscles/body.  Potentially something involving the CNS?  Way beyond my scope of physiological/neurological understanding. 
• Moderate Alcohol "Abuse" - I've been drinking since age 16 and binge drink at least 3 times/month since then.  I feel this wouldn't be the problem as I know alcoholics that have been so since age 15 that "function" quite fine.
• STDs ? - I've never been tested and probably should be.  Everything is visibly fine but I suppose you never know eh?

Random Information/Comments:

• Interestingly I notice that after getting drunk, I am much more connected to reality in the morning, which fades as the hangover goes away.  A very interesting post was made discussing this exact same phenomenon.  I have to dissect this more when I have time.
• I've suffered 1 severely traumatic experience, 1 very traumatic emotional experience.  Emotional burnout is probably useful to mention.
• I eat relatively healthy but do not follow any strict diet.  I drink a lot of water every single day.
• Aside from marijuana and alcohol I've also tried psilocybin, and mdma several times.  This problem developed long before I used those.  It was always pure.
• I have exercised on and off for many years.  I find the physical relief from exercise is not worth the stress it causes me to try and stick to a workout schedule.  It saddens me quite a bit.
• I would very much like to get an MRI done as well, or some sort of brain imaging scan.  Would this help pinpoint a problem?  I'm open to the possibility that some damage may have occurred.
• Meditation and yoga seem to have almost zero effect on me.  I once did yoga an hour a day for 4 months with no lasting relaxation or peace.  I feel though as if when I do find relief from a certain supplement that these practices do begin to do something for me.  I've also spent time in a float tank and was unable to enjoy it due to the insane death grip of tension that I hold in my neck that I absolutely am unable to get rid of.
• My social interactions are what tend to bother me the most.  I felt as though I used to be extremely proficient in conversation and socialization and now I struggle quite a bit.  I've lost one of my greatest passions here for sure.  My eye contact is extremely awkward.  I have a hard time looking at things let alone people.

 

So in conclusion, I am having some seriously debilitating cognition problems that correlates quite strongly with the "negative/cognitive" symptoms of schizophrenia (I'm not claiming definitively that I have that) that isn't responding to the typical treatments of it, while receiving the strongest relief from ashwagandha, lion's mane, and modafinil.  I have a few theories that warrant thorough investigation; though this side effect would be an uncommon one for these ailments.  I have limited funds and doctors have been less than useless in this discussion.  They all want to give me anti-depressants and talk about my feelings.  I'm pretty sure I'm more intelligent than the majority of them.  I've yet to see an endocrinologist as I don't know my stuff on that quite yet, and I want to be well prepared for when I do go in.

 

I need some serious help with this guys, I don't know neurochemistry but I know a lot of you do.  I am not familiar with the pathways in the brain, I just simply look at case studies and anecdotal evidence to try and formulate a plan of action.  I don't know what molecules affect which areas of the brain and which areas of the brain are associated with whatever function it processes.  It would mean the world to me if some of you guys could read over the information I've provided, I've tried to be very thorough.  Something may stick out to you very plainly that for me could take several years before I figured out.  

 

I think that just about does it, I'll be following this very closely and if you want any more information out of me just ask!  I'll keep adding to the random comments/info section as things come to mind.

 

Thanks guys,

 

AE

Edited by AlmostEasy, 02 July 2014 - 07:39 AM.

[Keizo]

I experienced something that can be described similarly after and while tapering benzodiazepines.

Terrible memory (short term/working mostly), stiffness, muscle/nerve pain but mostly odd sensations, very low energy levels, severe problems speaking, dizziness (eventually). Not being able to do much of anything. Also the general disinterest or "blank state". This was already slightly apparent while I was taking mega-doses of benzodiazepines, some months earlier. All the symptoms listed as negative schizophrenic seem very apt to me, without over-analyzing them.

The 2 times I tried benzodiazepines again, some months after tapering was finished, it restored clarity and most all symptoms. Like I had not eaten anything in weeks and suddenly got some nutrients IV.

Do you feel as if your mind is "frozen" or working very slow? Not able to complete a sentence you might have already vaguely formulated or initiated?

 

What I suggest you do is take 5mg of diazepam, or equivalent dose of any other benzodiazepine. If this helps to any major extent, you should never touch alcohol again and buy Cerebrolysin. Or just try it straight away. If my hunch is correct (since I have no real underlying knowledge regarding these areas of study) you should experience immediate relief with Cerebrolysin. "Solving problems related to the GABA-system" perhaps, or a number of other things.

I.e. I think your changes are due to alcohol use. How most people are able to withstand it is not relevant.

Edited by Keizo, 02 July 2014 - 12:34 PM.

[AlmostEasy]

Do you feel as if your mind is "frozen" or working very slow? Not able to complete a sentence you might have already vaguely formulated or initiated?

 

What I suggest you do is take 5mg of diazepam, or equivalent dose of any other benzodiazepine. If this helps to any major extent, you should never touch alcohol again and buy Cerebrolysin. Or just try it straight away. If my hunch is correct (since I have no real underlying knowledge regarding these areas of study) you should experience immediate relief with Cerebrolysin. "Solving problems related to the GABA-system" perhaps, or a number of other things.

I.e. I think your changes are due to alcohol use. How most people are able to withstand it is not relevant.

 

Very interesting.

 

Indeed my mind does feel like that, especially if I'm not on any supplements.  I struggled just to get responses out and finishing them was a nearly impossible task lol.  It seems to be that way with my thoughts as well I'm unable to fully resolve an issue or idea because I can't fully process it to the end.

 

Anyway, that is very interesting, are you using cerebrolysin yourself to treat this problem?  And you believe it was caused by benzo abuse?  Also is there anything besides those two that may give similar insight, they are pretty extreme to get my hands on it seems (which I am more than willing to do if need be, what I WILL do if need be).  It looks like Aniracetam may enhance neutrophic factors and is metabolized into N-anisoyl-GABA.  Also would just taking GABA alone do anything in those regards?  Sorry for my ignorance I've not yet studied anything in the GABA realm although it's pretty obvious I should and I had meant to since Ashwagandha is my primary supplement.

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT - Alright just found a free 30 day supply of Cebria (NeuroPep-12 Peptide Blend) from cebria.com, it looks like I'll have to take 2/day but this should tell me definitively if this is indeed my problem

Edited by AlmostEasy, 02 July 2014 - 07:02 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

"Interestingly I notice that after getting drunk, I am much more connected to reality in the morning, which fades as the hangover goes away.  A very interesting post was made discussing this exact same phenomenon.  I have to dissect this more when I have time."

 

Interesting, after a couple of beers I am much more connected with myself and reality (believe it or not it even helps me cognitively). With hangovers and the morning after not so much, at least, if I really get drunk the night before, it worsens my symptoms the day after. If I drink just about the right amount (tipsy and/or border between tipsy and drunk) I experience the same as you the morning after.  

 

Reishi/Probiotics - A healthy gut appears to help with negative/cognitive like symptoms

 

Found out (by coincidence) this really is true. Made a thread about this phenomena couple of days ago. I also add 400mg of Pregnenolone when taking this since 4 days, the serenity it gives my mind, it's almost too good to be true! Like after taking both I'm the most relaxed dude on the planet (in my mind). (But like I said, for a hyperactive schizophrenic mind it's almost too good to believe so I'm not yet drawing any conclusions that this will stay this way).

I also added Tongkat Ali 100:1 200mg to these two supps since 2 days, I need more time to experience if that adds something positive or negative. Only thing I notice is that I have a harder erection since two days (without contraindicating the other two supps) but at this point I can't really conclude it's from being in a very good mood or that Tongkat is raising my Testo already. (I'm taking Tongkat in the hopes of raising free T and decline Cortisol).

One of the reason this cleaning the gut thing might be true is because serotonine is produces in the gut (don't ask me if this is really true, they told it on a show on TV last week). But if I think logically about it, it totally makes sense, the western food is full shit, so cleaning the gut might mean cleaning/clearing the brain of that shit...(!?) 

 

My social interactions are what tend to bother me the most.  I felt as though I used to be extremely proficient in conversation and socialization and now I struggle quite a bit.  I've lost one of my greatest passions here for sure.  My eye contact is extremely awkward.  I have a hard time looking at things let alone people.

 

Same here, though, only when conversation get to emotional level, don't know about you, if that's also the case, avoid emotional conversations (on emotional level you should try talking to specialists imo). Just try to be superficial, even if you struggle with being superficial (just like me), the most "social" people are superficial and dumb anyway (in other words, you are the intelligent one that is "creating" this problem upon yourself). And like mentioned above, GABA (benzo's) might be a good solution for this, seems like, because of your issues, you struggle with anxiety.

 

Lastly, let me comment on the first "spoiler" section of this topic. I, like many other schizophrenics, also do suffer from those symptoms. But, like I said many times before to you, even though most of your symptoms are all in the ballpark of schizophrenia does not mean you have schizophrenia, you did not have a psychotic episode with hallucinations/delusions so you should use schizophrenia symptoms as a reference not as if you have schizophrenia (this is also something I already told you). I think if you leave schizophrenia out of the discussion/threads there will be more people that can help you on the forums. The variety of things, meds, supps etc. you can take to try to recover are a no go/dream for many schizophrenics, including me! 

[Keizo]

 

Do you feel as if your mind is "frozen" or working very slow? Not able to complete a sentence you might have already vaguely formulated or initiated?

 

What I suggest you do is take 5mg of diazepam, or equivalent dose of any other benzodiazepine. If this helps to any major extent, you should never touch alcohol again and buy Cerebrolysin. Or just try it straight away. If my hunch is correct (since I have no real underlying knowledge regarding these areas of study) you should experience immediate relief with Cerebrolysin. "Solving problems related to the GABA-system" perhaps, or a number of other things.

I.e. I think your changes are due to alcohol use. How most people are able to withstand it is not relevant.

 

Very interesting.

 

Indeed my mind does feel like that, especially if I'm not on any supplements.  I struggled just to get responses out and finishing them was a nearly impossible task lol.  It seems to be that way with my thoughts as well I'm unable to fully resolve an issue or idea because I can't fully process it to the end.

 

Anyway, that is very interesting, are you using cerebrolysin yourself to treat this problem?  And you believe it was caused by benzo abuse?  Also is there anything besides those two that may give similar insight, they are pretty extreme to get my hands on it seems (which I am more than willing to do if need be, what I WILL do if need be).  It looks like Aniracetam may enhance neutrophic factors and is metabolized into N-anisoyl-GABA.  Also would just taking GABA alone do anything in those regards?  Sorry for my ignorance I've not yet studied anything in the GABA realm although it's pretty obvious I should and I had meant to since Ashwagandha is my primary supplement.

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT - Alright just found a free 30 day supply of Cebria (NeuroPep-12 Peptide Blend) from cebria.com, it looks like I'll have to take 2/day but this should tell me definitively if this is indeed my problem

 

Actually since you also have positive effects from ashwaghanda I think Cerebrolysin will help. 

Most people report a calming effect if nothing else, and there does not appear to be any long term issues. I remember reading it upregulating the GABA-A receptors, and doing some modulation short of agonism at the GABA-B. Also I think it increased the number of AMPA receptors. I don't remember in what circumstance this happened, the summary paper does not seem available for free anymore. 

Well there is this one http://wiseyoung.wor...2009/02/10/271/

 

I did indeed get very large benefits from Cerebrolysin, the effects seem rather permanent. 

I would say it removed most stress, or whatever we can call it, that caused me all these problems. Only thing that is a bit of a problem is anhedonia and so on, but there might be other reasons there. Yes benzodiazepines - most likely the culprit.

I also tried to quit them abruptly in early 2012. About 10 days were spent trying to eat and sleep, before I gave up. Near no ability to speak.

I probably used half of my life consumption of these pills in October-December 2012, having started a very moderate use in Late October 2010.

 

I think supplementing gaba can do something, but I don't think it'll solve anything long term. Hopefully you will notice something from the Cebria.

Edited by Keizo, 03 July 2014 - 02:10 AM.

[AlmostEasy]

YoungSchizo, on 02 Jul 2014 - 9:34 PM, said:

Spoiler

"Interestingly I notice that after getting drunk, I am much more connected to reality in the morning, which fades as the hangover goes away.  A very interesting post was made discussing this exact same phenomenon.  I have to dissect this more when I have time."

 

Interesting, after a couple of beers I am much more connected with myself and reality (believe it or not it even helps me cognitively). With hangovers and the morning after not so much, at least, if I really get drunk the night before, it worsens my symptoms the day after. If I drink just about the right amount (tipsy and/or border between tipsy and drunk) I experience the same as you the morning after.  

 

Reishi/Probiotics - A healthy gut appears to help with negative/cognitive like symptoms

 

Found out (by coincidence) this really is true. Made a thread about this phenomena couple of days ago. I also add 400mg of Pregnenolone when taking this since 4 days, the serenity it gives my mind, it's almost too good to be true! Like after taking both I'm the most relaxed dude on the planet (in my mind). (But like I said, for a hyperactive schizophrenic mind it's almost too good to believe so I'm not yet drawing any conclusions that this will stay this way).

I also added Tongkat Ali 100:1 200mg to these two supps since 2 days, I need more time to experience if that adds something positive or negative. Only thing I notice is that I have a harder erection since two days (without contraindicating the other two supps) but at this point I can't really conclude it's from being in a very good mood or that Tongkat is raising my Testo already. (I'm taking Tongkat in the hopes of raising free T and decline Cortisol).

One of the reason this cleaning the gut thing might be true is because serotonine is produces in the gut (don't ask me if this is really true, they told it on a show on TV last week). But if I think logically about it, it totally makes sense, the western food is full shit, so cleaning the gut might mean cleaning/clearing the brain of that shit...(!?) 

 

My social interactions are what tend to bother me the most.  I felt as though I used to be extremely proficient in conversation and socialization and now I struggle quite a bit.  I've lost one of my greatest passions here for sure.  My eye contact is extremely awkward.  I have a hard time looking at things let alone people.

 

Same here, though, only when conversation get to emotional level, don't know about you, if that's also the case, avoid emotional conversations (on emotional level you should try talking to specialists imo). Just try to be superficial, even if you struggle with being superficial (just like me), the most "social" people are superficial and dumb anyway (in other words, you are the intelligent one that is "creating" this problem upon yourself). And like mentioned above, GABA (benzo's) might be a good solution for this, seems like, because of your issues, you struggle with anxiety.

 

Lastly, let me comment on the first "spoiler" section of this topic. I, like many other schizophrenics, also do suffer from those symptoms. But, like I said many times before to you, even though most of your symptoms are all in the ballpark of schizophrenia does not mean you have schizophrenia, you did not have a psychotic episode with hallucinations/delusions so you should use schizophrenia symptoms as a reference not as if you have schizophrenia (this is also something I already told you). I think if you leave schizophrenia out of the discussion/threads there will be more people that can help you on the forums. The variety of things, meds, supps etc. you can take to try to recover are a no go/dream for many schizophrenics, including me! 

Yeah the hangover thing is weird, definitely check out that thread I linked in the description the guy actually ended up getting to the bottom of it.

 

I actually noticed your thread the other day.  It looks like I'm going to be ordering some Green Defense, L-Lysine, and some Reishi (Cebria already ordered).  I'll post results once I experiment.

 

And yes I know :P I just figured people might wonder why in the world I experimented with the things I did and where I got that rationale from so I just posted it how I did, maybe I'll edit it to bold the parts where I state I'm not claiming that's what I actually have.

 

Also how's Zyprexa and L-Lysine working for you?  I noticed before you said you very much disliked Zyprexa but now you're using it?  Do you ever worry about atrophy?

 

Keizo, on 02 Jul 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

Spoiler

 

 

Do you feel as if your mind is "frozen" or working very slow? Not able to complete a sentence you might have already vaguely formulated or initiated?

 

What I suggest you do is take 5mg of diazepam, or equivalent dose of any other benzodiazepine. If this helps to any major extent, you should never touch alcohol again and buy Cerebrolysin. Or just try it straight away. If my hunch is correct (since I have no real underlying knowledge regarding these areas of study) you should experience immediate relief with Cerebrolysin. "Solving problems related to the GABA-system" perhaps, or a number of other things.

I.e. I think your changes are due to alcohol use. How most people are able to withstand it is not relevant.

 

Very interesting.

 

Indeed my mind does feel like that, especially if I'm not on any supplements.  I struggled just to get responses out and finishing them was a nearly impossible task lol.  It seems to be that way with my thoughts as well I'm unable to fully resolve an issue or idea because I can't fully process it to the end.

 

Anyway, that is very interesting, are you using cerebrolysin yourself to treat this problem?  And you believe it was caused by benzo abuse?  Also is there anything besides those two that may give similar insight, they are pretty extreme to get my hands on it seems (which I am more than willing to do if need be, what I WILL do if need be).  It looks like Aniracetam may enhance neutrophic factors and is metabolized into N-anisoyl-GABA.  Also would just taking GABA alone do anything in those regards?  Sorry for my ignorance I've not yet studied anything in the GABA realm although it's pretty obvious I should and I had meant to since Ashwagandha is my primary supplement.

 

Thanks!

 

EDIT - Alright just found a free 30 day supply of Cebria (NeuroPep-12 Peptide Blend) from cebria.com, it looks like I'll have to take 2/day but this should tell me definitively if this is indeed my problem

 

Actually since you also have positive effects from ashwaghanda I think Cerebrolysin will help. 

Most people report a calming effect if nothing else, and there does not appear to be any long term issues. I remember reading it upregulating the GABA-A receptors, and doing some modulation short of agonism at the GABA-B. Also I think it increased the number of AMPA receptors. I don't remember in what circumstance this happened, the summary paper does not seem available for free anymore. 

Well there is this one http://wiseyoung.wor...2009/02/10/271/

 

I did indeed get very large benefits from Cerebrolysin, the effects seem rather permanent. 

I would say it removed most stress, or whatever we can call it, that caused me all these problems. Only thing that is a bit of a problem is anhedonia and so on, but there might be other reasons there. Yes benzodiazepines - most likely the culprit.

I also tried to quit them abruptly in early 2012. About 10 days were spent trying to eat and sleep, before I gave up. Near no ability to speak.

I probably used half of my life consumption of these pills in October-December 2012, having started a very moderate use in Late October 2010.

 

I think supplementing gaba can do something, but I don't think it'll solve anything long term. Hopefully you will notice something from the Cebria.

 

Very interesting indeed.  This Cebria looks pretty good.  How long did you take Cerebrolysin for before you got the, what you feel, are permanent effects?  The stuff looks quite expensive.

[Keizo]

I took 5ml for 5 days in november or december last year. (I finished benzo taper in March -13).  I can't exactly recall how severe problems I had at this point, some disappeared simply with time, but I felt rather desperate.  I think I had some moderate trouble speaking, my mind would freeze, bad working memory, and I had some brain fog and migraine like symptoms.

This I felt it greatly reduced for at least 3 weeks after these doses. Certainly very good stress/anxiety reduction, some sort of antidepressant effect.

About 2 weeks later I started taking 100ml (over the course of maybe 6 weeks), and then I waited around 2-3 months before taking a 50ml cycle in May-June. In-between I can't say I noticed much difference except that I was more fearful right before I started the 50ml cycle compared to right after the 100ml. (I normally have some social anxiety). Maybe some mental sluggishness came back.

 

nootropic.eu takes 34 GBP for 5x5ml, 6gbp for world wide shipping. I have not looked at any other places.

Edited by Keizo, 03 July 2014 - 05:34 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

"Also how's Zyprexa and L-Lysine working for you?  I noticed before you said you very much disliked Zyprexa but now you're using it?  Do you ever worry about atrophy?"

 

Yea, I'd sworn off to use Zyprexa ever again! After my recent relapse I started taking it again because of having limited choices, I actually wanted to be on Amulsipride (in low doses it improves negatives/cognitives), sadly my hospital does not provide it because it's not in their arsenal for schizophrenia. The list of serious side-effects of atypical antipsychotics is endless so it's scary for people who never used it, for me not so much because I had previously been 8 years on it. Just taking a low dosage, 5mg, so doesn't have much side-effects (don't even know if it has positive effect on me, only thing I noticed is that I sleep good on it).

 

L-Lysine, I have no idea if it helps me, before I was on Green Defense it didn't seem like it was doing something, so I'm just emptying the jar and I'll find out later if it had positive effects on me.

[Ace Silver]

Honestly, for your situation (as similar as my own)  I would supplement either GABA or L-Theanine. L-Theanine has done wonders for me at the smallest recommended dose of 100 mg x 3 per day (morning, lunch, and dinner), L-Theanine seems to regulate my mood and balance out the edginess of caffeine consumption. To my experimentation It also is synergistic along with Noopept and many other racetams. (I take 1 x 2 10mg dose every morning and night along with my L-Theanine). 

One last recommendation is to look into Rhodiola rosea as a possible motivational booster/mood booster. Seems to work well for me at 300mg in powder form. Other than that B-vitamin complex "100", and ALCAR definitely help out and would recommend to look into those as well. I could go into depth about each supplement I take but it would do you well to really look into each one and make your own judgments on whether you would like to take them. 

Best of luck to you AlmostEasy! 

[AlmostEasy]

I took 5ml for 5 days in november or december last year. (I finished benzo taper in March -13).  I can't exactly recall how severe problems I had at this point, some disappeared simply with time, but I felt rather desperate.  I think I had some moderate trouble speaking, my mind would freeze, bad working memory, and I had some brain fog and migraine like symptoms.

This I felt it greatly reduced for at least 3 weeks after these doses. Certainly very good stress/anxiety reduction, some sort of antidepressant effect.

About 2 weeks later I started taking 100ml (over the course of maybe 6 weeks), and then I waited around 2-3 months before taking a 50ml cycle in May-June. In-between I can't say I noticed much difference except that I was more fearful right before I started the 50ml cycle compared to right after the 100ml. (I normally have some social anxiety). Maybe some mental sluggishness came back.

 

nootropic.eu takes 34 GBP for 5x5ml, 6gbp for world wide shipping. I have not looked at any other places.

Ok I think I finally understand this Cerebrolysin stuff.  It looks like you take it in specific cycles and then you no longer have to take it?  Or perhaps only do a booster every so often?

 

"Also how's Zyprexa and L-Lysine working for you?  I noticed before you said you very much disliked Zyprexa but now you're using it?  Do you ever worry about atrophy?"

 

Yea, I'd sworn off to use Zyprexa ever again! After my recent relapse I started taking it again because of having limited choices, I actually wanted to be on Amulsipride (in low doses it improves negatives/cognitives), sadly my hospital does not provide it because it's not in their arsenal for schizophrenia. The list of serious side-effects of atypical antipsychotics is endless so it's scary for people who never used it, for me not so much because I had previously been 8 years on it. Just taking a low dosage, 5mg, so doesn't have much side-effects (don't even know if it has positive effect on me, only thing I noticed is that I sleep good on it).

 

L-Lysine, I have no idea if it helps me, before I was on Green Defense it didn't seem like it was doing something, so I'm just emptying the jar and I'll find out later if it had positive effects on me.

Would you suggest me trying Zyprexa?  A few other people have but I'm having a hard time considering actually doing it.  It may be one of the last things I'll ever try.

 

Honestly, for your situation (as similar as my own)  I would supplement either GABA or L-Theanine. L-Theanine has done wonders for me at the smallest recommended dose of 100 mg x 3 per day (morning, lunch, and dinner), L-Theanine seems to regulate my mood and balance out the edginess of caffeine consumption. To my experimentation It also is synergistic along with Noopept and many other racetams. (I take 1 x 2 10mg dose every morning and night along with my L-Theanine). 

One last recommendation is to look into Rhodiola rosea as a possible motivational booster/mood booster. Seems to work well for me at 300mg in powder form. Other than that B-vitamin complex "100", and ALCAR definitely help out and would recommend to look into those as well. I could go into depth about each supplement I take but it would do you well to really look into each one and make your own judgments on whether you would like to take them. 

Best of luck to you AlmostEasy! 

I don't do too well with caffeine, although I tend to consume it fairly often.  I get addicted to just getting out of my headspace rut, but it usually ends up in worse symptoms even with L-Theanine.  I suppose I could try it on its own though.  I'll definitely put GABA on my list of things to try as well.  Thanks for the reply!

[Keizo]

I don't know the reasoning behind taking it for say 1 month with weekends off, then some long break, though most people do it and at least some studies are based on this.

The reason I would come up with is it makes me slightly tired after a few weeks on it, and you don't want to endlessly inject smaller dosages if you are paranoid about those needles causing any damage.

Edited by Keizo, 07 July 2014 - 06:25 AM.

[Flex]

Edit

Edited by Flex, 07 July 2014 - 11:30 PM.

[mono]

Well seems you've tried the typical NMDA route given your experience with sarcosine and even piracetam. There really hasn't been enough research into the effectiveness of these supplements nor NMDA treatment to make conclusion based of anecdotal experience

I did some reading a while back about ssri/snri combo responding well to typical negative symptoms and also depression characterised by avolition, affective flattening, agolia etc.

Check out this link: www.schizophrenia.com:8080/jiveforums/thread.jspa?messageID=363254&#363254

There is heaps more info on that SZ board about the combo if you do some searching.

Try talking to a psychiatrist.

For me stims did not help for negatives.

Edited by mono, 08 July 2014 - 01:38 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

"Also how's Zyprexa and L-Lysine working for you?  I noticed before you said you very much disliked Zyprexa but now you're using it?  Do you ever worry about atrophy?"

 

Yea, I'd sworn off to use Zyprexa ever again! After my recent relapse I started taking it again because of having limited choices, I actually wanted to be on Amulsipride (in low doses it improves negatives/cognitives), sadly my hospital does not provide it because it's not in their arsenal for schizophrenia. The list of serious side-effects of atypical antipsychotics is endless so it's scary for people who never used it, for me not so much because I had previously been 8 years on it. Just taking a low dosage, 5mg, so doesn't have much side-effects (don't even know if it has positive effect on me, only thing I noticed is that I sleep good on it).

 

L-Lysine, I have no idea if it helps me, before I was on Green Defense it didn't seem like it was doing something, so I'm just emptying the jar and I'll find out later if it had positive effects on me.

 

 

Would you suggest me trying Zyprexa?  A few other people have but I'm having a hard time considering actually doing it.  It may be one of the last things I'll ever try.

 

I don't do too well with caffeine, although I tend to consume it fairly often.  I get addicted to just getting out of my headspace rut, but it usually ends up in worse symptoms even with L-Theanine.  I suppose I could try it on its own though.  I'll definitely put GABA on my list of things to try as well.  Thanks for the reply!

 

uhh.. As you do not have schizophrenia (and/or you don't even know what "mental illness" you have or what your diagnoses is) I would advice against it. Maybe you have a delusion of suffering from schizophrenia, hence the fact you try substances that might help schizophrenics and keep bringing it up ever since knowing you, in that case I would say yes, antipsychotics slows down some mental processes. Use a low dose though, that way you can avoid the awful side-effects.

 

Very interesting you bring up caffeine and L-Theanine worsening your condition, this clearly indicates to me, like I already observed, that you might suffer from (some sort of) anxiety. Exchange your coffee for decaf, I know it might be hard to give up a strong tasty coffee, I was stubborn for 8 years to let go of caffeine products especially my morning coffee even though I knew it worsened my symptoms. Decaf still has some caffeine in it, if you consume that fairly often you might still get enough caffeine and off course the nice taste of coffee. Thanks to Clonazepam I can drink high caffeine containing products again, though, I learned I can live without it so I only drink caffeine products when really tired or on "special" occasions.

[mono]

You should consider that depression can manifest with the symptoms you are mentioning - the a's - (agolia etc.) and cognitive issues.

I find it interesting the you believe you are more intelligent than most doctors but still feel you are experiencing problems with your cognition.

Albeit, despite this a psychiatrist still has more knowledge and experience in this field than you do. Given that you feel you are suffering from a disorder, I would honestly advise you to have the patience to work with a pdoc rather than people with no qualifications and unregulated chemicals.

Edited by mono, 08 July 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[AlmostEasy]

 

"Also how's Zyprexa and L-Lysine working for you?  I noticed before you said you very much disliked Zyprexa but now you're using it?  Do you ever worry about atrophy?"

 

Yea, I'd sworn off to use Zyprexa ever again! After my recent relapse I started taking it again because of having limited choices, I actually wanted to be on Amulsipride (in low doses it improves negatives/cognitives), sadly my hospital does not provide it because it's not in their arsenal for schizophrenia. The list of serious side-effects of atypical antipsychotics is endless so it's scary for people who never used it, for me not so much because I had previously been 8 years on it. Just taking a low dosage, 5mg, so doesn't have much side-effects (don't even know if it has positive effect on me, only thing I noticed is that I sleep good on it).

 

L-Lysine, I have no idea if it helps me, before I was on Green Defense it didn't seem like it was doing something, so I'm just emptying the jar and I'll find out later if it had positive effects on me.

 

 

Would you suggest me trying Zyprexa?  A few other people have but I'm having a hard time considering actually doing it.  It may be one of the last things I'll ever try.

 

I don't do too well with caffeine, although I tend to consume it fairly often.  I get addicted to just getting out of my headspace rut, but it usually ends up in worse symptoms even with L-Theanine.  I suppose I could try it on its own though.  I'll definitely put GABA on my list of things to try as well.  Thanks for the reply!

 

uhh.. As you do not have schizophrenia (and/or you don't even know what "mental illness" you have or what your diagnoses is) I would advice against it. Maybe you have a delusion of suffering from schizophrenia, hence the fact you try substances that might help schizophrenics and keep bringing it up ever since knowing you, in that case I would say yes, antipsychotics slows down some mental processes. Use a low dose though, that way you can avoid the awful side-effects.

 

Very interesting you bring up caffeine and L-Theanine worsening your condition, this clearly indicates to me, like I already observed, that you might suffer from (some sort of) anxiety. Exchange your coffee for decaf, I know it might be hard to give up a strong tasty coffee, I was stubborn for 8 years to let go of caffeine products especially my morning coffee even though I knew it worsened my symptoms. Decaf still has some caffeine in it, if you consume that fairly often you might still get enough caffeine and off course the nice taste of coffee. Thanks to Clonazepam I can drink high caffeine containing products again, though, I learned I can live without it so I only drink caffeine products when really tired or on "special" occasions.

 

I'll clarify again.  I have already stated in my OP that I do not claim that I absolutely believe I have SZ and will also mention again that I've heard reports of Zyprexa helping others with similar types of burn out (call it what you will).  I am not delusional in my belief that its probable that I don't have it, I understand every time you've posted it and very clearly see what you are saying and thought I communicated that in my OP.  I went with that route of treatment because NOTHING else that I have seen has even come close to describing what I am experiencing and have been experiencing for many years.  My symptoms are IDENTICAL to neg/cog sz, as if someone had slipped into my consciousness, wrote the experience down, and explained it back to me word for word.  it would have been, I feel, irresponsible to not start at that place and move outward.  I would have felt repressed and anxious if I had deprived myself of the typical treatment for my most relatable condition.  It took me several months to even admit to myself that my symptoms were identical to those of the negative/cognition schizophrenia symptoms.  I avoided it like the plague until I had to admit that it was a possibility, believe me, I do not want to hold onto that idea.

 

Now after trying every treatment under the sun for that disorder it is becoming increasingly clear that I probably do not fit into that category, but "probably" won't stop me from trying things that I can afford (sort of..) when I seem to have no other options; which is also the purpose of this thread, to try and find other, different diagnosis' and treatments.  I also would not have found modafinil without this process, which I am very grateful for.

 

I go back and forth with the caffeine thing.  I'll be off for a few weeks, on for a few.  L-Theanine does lessen anxiety for sure but after an hour or so I still feel the burn out.  It almost feels as if the caffeine disrupts a very delicate neuro-balance that my supplements help me out with and I don't recover from the disruption for 5+ hours.

 

You should consider that depression can manifest with the symptoms you are mentioning - the a's - (agolia etc.) and cognitive issues.

I find it interesting the you believe you are more intelligent than most doctors but still feel you are experiencing problems with your cognition.

Albeit, despite this a psychiatrist still has more knowledge and experience in this field than you do. Given that you feel you are suffering from a disorder, I would honestly advise you to have the patience to work with a pdoc rather than people with no qualifications and unregulated chemicals.

I'll reiterate, what I mean is that they seem to not listen to what I'm saying at all (save for 1 that let me experiment a bit) and immediately want to put me on a prescription for an SSRI from the moment I mention anything regarding an abnormal state of mind.  I've taken 4-5 SSRI's and they've all done literally nothing, and I only got on them out of pure desperation.  False hope sometimes was the only thing keeping me going.  I've also seen 3 psychiatrists and that has done nothing other than empty my pockets.  Not a single one of them had any idea of what I was trying to communicate to them.  It is quite obvious that what they are suggesting is wrong, is in fact not what is wrong, and they are unable to help me out in the least.  I suppose in my mind I think intelligence is more than just number crunching and recall ability.

 

The ONLY thing that has helped me at all is researching on the internet for hours on end, by myself, and buying and testing supplements at the criticism of everyone who knows I do it.  Ashwagandha and Lion's Mane have dug me out of an extremely deep hole and this only reinforces the idea that I can succeed through this method.  I would sell the clothes on my back to keep being able to afford these supplements.

 

I'm open to the idea of seeing doctors, sure, but I find it highly unlikely that they will have any clue what is going on unless I go through doctor upon doctor and specialist and specialist which it seems could take years of time and thousands of dollars that I do not have.  I spent SO much money on that route and it ended up doing nothing but crushing my optimism for recovery.  I now live very financially strained because of this which compounds the problem itself.

 

I just do not know what to do, or who to try to see.  I really wish there was just some test I could take that would very clearly signal something significantly off in my physiology but I've yet to even find an idea of where to look.

 

But thank you for reminding me of that SNRI combo from the Sz.com forums, I'd forgotten about that option.  I'll put that on my list of things to investigate.

[mono]

No problem, thanks for the compassionate reply.

My experience with psychiatry has been positive and produced significant benefits. There's definitely so much more to learn and I'd like to dedicate my life to contributing towards that area.

My experience with self-medicating however has been negative. Hence the perspective of my reply. I'm sorry to hear you haven't been able to get relief from your disorder, but I do feel a psychiatrist is going to have a much more congruent perspective and working knowledge.

There is a specific and rare type of depression which is characterised by symptoms of anhedonia, avolition, fatigue, alogia etc. rather than being a 'mood disorder' per se. I learnt about it on the SZ forum but for the life of me can't remember what it was called. If you research on the forum you might find it though which could give you further insight into potential treatments.

Another research-based article you might find interesting, although focusing on depression it gives insight into some of the symptoms of treatment resistant depression which has relation to what you are describing.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2958866/

Edited by mono, 08 July 2014 - 10:08 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

Negative symptoms can easily be confused with symptoms of depression, they can even kinda overlap each other. Cognition however is a totally different story, many people in the brain health section (just like you and me) struggle with or want to enhance their cognition. I'm sorry to hammer on the fact you do not suffer from schizophrenia (what I was trying to say was; schizophrenia is so broad it's a collection of all kinds of disorders). If the supplements that help schizophrenics don't/didn't work out for you it's back to the drawing board and it's kinda difficult to help you out because without a diagnoses of a specialist it's very hard to know in which direction you should look to help yourself out.

 

And I know first hand walking the road of psychiatry is a very long and annoying one (I can write a whole story about how fucked up psychiatry is), they made so many mistakes in my treatment, I lost so many and it took so many years to figure out on my own what I was going through but at least I have an indication where to look and always can fall back on professional insight and regular real drugs if things get worse.

[scibor1]

Question!

 

 Alpha-7  nicotinic agonist always increase the sensitivity of receptors D2 and D3? 

 

always?

[AlmostEasy]

No problem, thanks for the compassionate reply.

My experience with psychiatry has been positive and produced significant benefits. There's definitely so much more to learn and I'd like to dedicate my life to contributing towards that area.

My experience with self-medicating however has been negative. Hence the perspective of my reply. I'm sorry to hear you haven't been able to get relief from your disorder, but I do feel a psychiatrist is going to have a much more congruent perspective and working knowledge.

There is a specific and rare type of depression which is characterised by symptoms of anhedonia, avolition, fatigue, alogia etc. rather than being a 'mood disorder' per se. I learnt about it on the SZ forum but for the life of me can't remember what it was called. If you research on the forum you might find it though which could give you further insight into potential treatments.

Another research-based article you might find interesting, although focusing on depression it gives insight into some of the symptoms of treatment resistant depression which has relation to what you are describing.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2958866/

That was "abulic" depression you were thinking of.  If my next couple of experiments dont produce results I'm going to try that tricyclic antidepressent and SSRI combo.  Here's the post about it (and another).  Maybe that would actually be something my insurance would cover.  Come to think of it, is it possible to get your insurance company to pay for supplements that you've found to treat a problem?  I suppose you'd have to get an official diagnosis' and all that.  Bleh.  

 

Negative symptoms can easily be confused with symptoms of depression, they can even kinda overlap each other. Cognition however is a totally different story, many people in the brain health section (just like you and me) struggle with or want to enhance their cognition. I'm sorry to hammer on the fact you do not suffer from schizophrenia (what I was trying to say was; schizophrenia is so broad it's a collection of all kinds of disorders). If the supplements that help schizophrenics don't/didn't work out for you it's back to the drawing board and it's kinda difficult to help you out because without a diagnoses of a specialist it's very hard to know in which direction you should look to help yourself out.

 

And I know first hand walking the road of psychiatry is a very long and annoying one (I can write a whole story about how fucked up psychiatry is), they made so many mistakes in my treatment, I lost so many and it took so many years to figure out on my own what I was going through but at least I have an indication where to look and always can fall back on professional insight and regular real drugs if things get worse.

I'm going to look at my insurance closely since it's changed (and will be changing again soon) and see what my options are because if that doesn't cover it I just can't go.  If it is covered I'm probably just going to type up a concise list like I did in my OP and hand it to him, should save about 5 sessions of explanation.  If he/she doesn't have any suggestions I might just jump around until I find one that does.  Also have you ever heard of any types of brain scans that would help identify things like this?  I know a reduction in grey matter and the likes would be an obvious sign, I'd be up for that if my insurance allowed it as well I just don't know much about them yet.

 

In other news Reishi is giving me some positive effects.  Nothing too substantial but I'll probably continue to take it.  My sleep improved while on it which was quite nice.  That's one thing that really bothers me, I struggle every day trying to just get to and out of bed.  I have this weird resistance to myself from feeling tired, I can't just be tired and do my thing it's like my eyes and brain resist the deep feeling and it makes it into this weird struggle.  I dunno.

 

Also tried pregnenolone again and I must say it's quite noticeable even after 30 minutes of taking it.  Definitely a calming effect for me.  I'll continue to try this out and see what happens with it.

 

Aaaaand finally, this came in:

 

Spoiler

 

AHHHHHHHH!  They sent me 2 boxes so I'm going to send 1 back to get the refund since they're $40 a box.  I've heard they do quite shady business like "accidentally" not processing your return in time and charging your card for the entire contents of their supposed "free trial" so we'll see how that works out.  I'm going to call them and e-mail them several times in a row to ensure they get the message that I'm not going to mess around with that kind of nonsense.

 

Current Stack:

• Lion's Mane - 2g 2/day (4g total)
• Reishi - 2g 2/day (4g total)
• Ashwagandha - 500mg KSM-66
• Bacopa - 600mg 60%
• ALCAR - 1g
• Fish Oil - 1g EPA
• Pregnenolone - 25mg (still need to play with dosing)
• Vitamin D3 - 4k IU
• Cebria (Cerebrolysin peptide derivative) - still haven't taken, just received today^

On The Way:

• Uridine Monophosphate - high hopes for this one!
• Bacopa (Bacognize) Powder
• ALCAR bulk powder

Substances of Interest:

• Racetams (Ani, Oxi, Prami, Phenyl, Nefi?)
• Tricyclic Antidepressent/SSRI Combo
• Zyprexa maybe?
• GABA?
• Some form of choline for the Uridine process?

Additional Theories (to the theories in my OP):

• Some form of extreme adrenal fatigue?
  • Taking it very easy on the caffeine/alcohol and seeing what results this has.  Had at most 3 beers this entire weekend.  After playing around with the idea I came to realize I hadn't given myself a break from partying/binge drinking 3-4 times a month in 8-9 years.  It seems obvious this could exacerbate (or even cause?) the problem but when everyone else I know is fine from doing the same thing it didn't dawn on me until recently.

 

Thanks for the replies and I'll update with my Cebria progress!

Edited by AlmostEasy, 15 July 2014 - 02:30 AM.

[abcmanomandriepunt1]

I think tackling the psychological aspect is important as well for you. Rhtym, rest, structure. Also not too many friends. I ditched about 15 friends when i burned out. It's important to stay with your self, to be an individual, to keep your own 'energy' and not give all of it to others . To not listen all the time to others, and not care too much about their opions.

 

 

I have high hopes with uridine for you as well :D good luck. If you come back to yourself you don't necessarily have to feel really good, but you can also feel traumatised because what you've been through. It gave me a sense of control over myself, something i lost a long time ago. Like i was always a step behind my actions. 

 

But be carefull. It's really powerfull stuff and the negative effect i had yesterday when taking too much was quite disturbing and i still am in the after math. I feel It also has a powerfull serotonin raising aspect and that it gave me too much serotonin yesterday. Dose really low and slow at first, and don't go from high to low, but go from low to when you feel it does enough.

Edited by tylerdurden, 16 July 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[medievil]

Im the man to talk to, ill post more later.

[Flex]

I dont know if I´ve mentioned allready, but I have very similair symptoms as You.

So, if something Works for You, please let me know.

Unless its Amphetamine or other stimulants because they are potentional harmful

 

This is what I´ve Found:

 

( But allways consider the coagulation and/or Agreggation blocking effects)

 

Nobiletin treatment improves motor and cognitive deficits seen in MPTP-induced Parkinson model mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24316474

...Overall, our study describes a novel nobiletin activity in brain and suggests that nobiletin rescues motor and cognitive dysfunction in MPTP-induced Parkinson model mice, in part by enhancing dopamine release...

 

Effects of gastrodin on the dopamine system of Tourette's syndrome rat models.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20103948

...We conclude that gastrodin effectively inhibited stereotyped behaviors and controlled TS symptoms by promoting dopamine metabolism, thereby increasing levels of HVA in sera...

 

This is maybe offtopic, but Gdnf is allways a nice thing ;-)

 

Naringin protects the nigrostriatal dopaminergic projection through induction of GDNF in a neurotoxin model of Parkinson's disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24797334

------------------------------

 

I would try something what increases Dopamine in the Striatum.

Maybe this could help in terms of Affect and negative symptoms.

For the Emotionlesness, its maybe to blame the Nucleus Accumbens (see abstract below)

I´ve tried Gastrodin yesterday and although I cant say much about the changes in Affect from now,

I can say that it is great against Depression and Stress.

Will post after I´ve tried it again.

Hope that I could help You out with this.

 

Could somebody help me with this abstract ?

 

Decreased dopamine brain reactivity in marijuana abusers is associated with negative emotionality and addiction severity

http://www.pnas.org/...7/10/1411228111

 

They just talk about a " Postsynaptic downstream effect" but didnt named the real cause.

I would it very appreciate if someone could send me the full text or the access to it.

-------------------

Edit

Found this on wiki:

 

Studies have shown cannabidiol decreases activity of the limbic system^[14] and decreases social isolation induced by THC.^[15]

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Cannabidiol

(14)

Effects of cannabidiol (CBD) on regional cerebral blood flow.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14583744

(15)

Cannabidiol reverses the reduction in social interaction produced by low dose Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinol in rats.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19393686

 

 

 

Edited by Flex, 16 July 2014 - 10:42 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

@Flex

 

Don't know if you already read this but here is the news article on the decreased dopamine & marijuana study.

[Flex]

Thank You very much.

 

This helps, but still lets open what happened to the post-synapses.

I know that e.g. cdk-5 decreases Dopamine d2 receptor expression

and, as far as I know, that the post-synapses rebuilds like after the recovery

from neuroleptics.

 

In those regards, I know only that it is a problem when neurites get destroyed.

Because they sometimes regenerate

(Correct me if I´m wrong)

 

I guess I still need that article.

Edited by Flex, 17 July 2014 - 01:01 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

Abstract

Edited by YoungSchizo, 17 July 2014 - 12:55 AM.

[Flex]

Thanks lot I really needed this for me.

[AlmostEasy]

Alright quick update.

 

Cebria wasn't the most revolutionary thing I've ever tried and a bit underwhelming honestly but it's definitely a solid supplement.  It provides a quite noticeable calming effect but it's definitely not getting to the root of my problem by any means, just slightly enhancing what actually IS working in my brain.  I can't justify keeping it in my stack due to price.

 

Uridine however has proven to be pretty powerful.  It definitely is ramping up something in my brain.  I dunno it sort of helps in one way and hurts in another.  Sometimes my mind gets wildly stimulated in a negative way, but this typically only lasts like 30-45 minutes.  After this it definitely takes off the negative tense edge in my mind and makes it run a little smoother, like quite literally.  It's like most of the time my thoughts don't have enough mental space to expand and complete themselves and this gives it a little more room, although they're still really weak and are hard to keep going.  I'll keep taking it for a while I think.

 

It might be important to note too that I'm not taking any choline with this, I'm not sure what that'd do for me but I'm a bit stressed over how much I've spent on supps lately so I'm making myself stop experimenting for a little bit unfortunately.

 

I'm definitely better than I was before, by quite a bit, but I'm still deep in the red.  It's pretty depressing that after so much research and so much trial and error I haven't found a substantial cure or treatment.  Humans shouldn't have to experience things like this.

 

Back to the drawing board I suppose, might schedule some doctors appointments and just throw this all at them and see what they have to say.

 

 

 

[Flex]

If You are interrested,I have the Informtions above listed with some others in this thread

http://www.longecity...ts/#entry675796

[Jeoshua]

A lot of your symptoms seem stress related, and the substances that you say work well for you, particularly Ashwagandha and Pregnenolone, stick out immediately to me as treatments that are known to be useful for stress related illness. Additionally, 170lbs is kind of low for 6'0". You may actually be experiencing adrenal fatigue.

I'm not recommending you "pig out", but you could try eating more rich foods, try to gain a little weight, and see if that helps even you out a little bit. Stress and low weight go together to aggravate many conditions.