48 replies to this topic

[Flex]

Here are some compunds that activate or increase Nurr1

Cocaine News + reversal thread

http://www.longecity...ad/#entry681593

[Flex]

I couldnt find any more compounds that activate/increase Nurr1 than the posted above besides Telmisartan

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24333837

but I will look further.

 

Fo ti / Polygonum Multiflorum increases the vesicle size in the hippocampus

 

Changes in hippocampal synapses and learning-memory abilities in age-increasing rats and effects of tetrahydroxystilbene glucoside in aged rats.

Treatment with high-dose TSG in rats at 24 months of age had significant improvement in the learning-memory abilities in the water maze tests associated with an increase in the number of synapses and synaptic vesicles, and an elevation of expression of SYP in the hippocampus

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17935895

[GoingPrimal]

Nice finds guys. As I've posted in this thread here (second and fourth posts for links), I've been using many of the herbs in the Shu-Yu-San formula individually, and at higher doses, to great effect. Specifically Albizzia and Polygala have noticeable mood-lifting, cognitive enhancement and BDNF properties.

 

I'm a big fan of these Traditional Chinese herbs and have experimented with many, both individually and in formulas. Big fan of he shou wu as mentioned in the post above.

[normalizing]

those chinese herbal supps are loaded with heavy metals and toxins. not sure if worth the risk

[GoingPrimal]

those chinese herbal supps are loaded with heavy metals and toxins. not sure if worth the risk

 

While heavy metals are a concern, I wouldn't jump straight to these broad conclusions, especially as many can be grown and bought in the US.

Edited by GoingPrimal, 22 November 2014 - 02:41 PM.

[normalizing]

heavy metals are concern, but also a fact when there are countless articles documenting their presence not only in chinese herbals but shitload of american ones too. problem is, none of the articles lists the companies manufacturing them because of business conflicts. so really, the consumer is a fucking guinea pig.

btw why do you assume anything grown in US is better somehow? there are no strict rules on keeping herbs free of toxins for the consumer! and if thats a problem enough, a lot of herbs just naturally have toxins in them for various reasons.either accumilating them unwillingly or willingly being resistent perhaps adapting as defense mechanism. the good idea in such cases is, even if you grow your own, its still not good idea to over indulge. problem is, you have to take A LOT to get the effects. its lose-lose

Edited by normalizing, 25 November 2014 - 02:25 AM.

[GoingPrimal]

Again, no one's saying heavy metals aren't a concern. Many of these herbs, take the medicinal mushrooms for example, are grown in hot houses on sawdust, whether in the US or China, and I wouldn't be too concerned about heavy metals and "toxins" coming from them. Some are collected wild from remote mountainous ares which are sure to be less contaminated with all the crap humans have injected into the stratosphere. And guess what? Some are grown using shitty standards, sprayed with all sorts of pesticides and are likely to be contaminated with some amount of heavy metals. But the same goes for food, grown here or imported from elsewhere as much of our food is. And all the supplements many on this board take, the 'racetams and various other white powders, are of questionable purity as well. Some come with a CoA but who's to say that CoA matches up with the exact batch you're receiving?

 

The point is, if you're concerned about heavy metals and specifically from these herbs, just don't take them. Unless we grew it ourselves, we all know (or should) that it's a bit of a gamble consuming these things. Thanks for the concern and everyone should be aware that this is potentially an issue with whatever we consume, chinese herbs or not. I, for one, would like to get back on the topic of the interesting effects some of these herbals have.

[Flex]

@ GoingPrimal

 

Nice to hear.

I think they bear a hughe potential also in regards to further discoveries.

I´ve posted here on longecity some additional stuff like like Epigenetic alterations by Herbals.

I will post here some interresting findings in the next days.

 

In regards of the quality, whom is actually to trust ?

Ashwagandha from NOW or Jarrows does also have supposedly an asiatic origin like the herbs from Sun Ten or other big companies.

 

I´m concerned too, but feel somewhat safer with those big companies than with other, I also have the option to buy from a German company (herbasinica.de) which runs a farm in china on they own and puts allways a Certificate of analysis in the shipping box.

 

Going Primal is right; People are using research chemicals or underresearched stuff like Coluracetam without knowing the longterm effects which is something like a Lottery.

I personally would preffer Herbs that are used since centuries and could be possibly polluted with Pesticides which I have perhaps allready ingested.

 

I would also consider the anti-cancer + neuroprotective compounds from the herbs in to the estimation of possible risks.

I had a professor in sociology in my Class a few days ago and this is one of the things that he has talked about: beeing concerned about the wrong.

According to him, people tend to be more frightened of the unknown than of the known.

So boozing seems rather ok even when You are definitive loosing Neurons, but to ingest possible polluted stuff seems somehow more dangerous to the people.

[GoingPrimal]

@ GoingPrimal

 

Nice to hear.

I think they bear a hughe potential also in regards to further discoveries.

I´ve posted here on longecity some additional stuff like like Epigenetic alterations by Herbals.

I will post here some interresting findings in the next days.

 

In regards of the quality, whom is actually to trust ?

Ashwagandha from NOW or Jarrows does also have supposedly an asiatic origin like the herbs from Sun Ten or other big companies.

 

I´m concerned too, but feel somewhat safer with those big companies than with other, I also have the option to buy from a German company (herbasinica.de) which runs a farm in china on they own and puts allways a Certificate of analysis in the shipping box.

 

Going Primal is right; People are using research chemicals or underresearched stuff like Coluracetam without knowing the longterm effects which is something like a Lottery.

I personally would preffer Herbs that are used since centuries and could be possibly polluted with Pesticides which I have perhaps allready ingested.

 

I would also consider the anti-cancer + neuroprotective compounds from the herbs in to the estimation of possible risks.

I had a professor in sociology in my Class a few days ago and this is one of the things that he has talked about: beeing concerned about the wrong.

According to him, people tend to be more frightened of the unknown than of the known.

So boozing seems rather ok even when You are definitive loosing Neurons, but to ingest possible polluted stuff seems somehow more dangerous to the people.

 

Good points.

 

For Chinese herbs I almost exclusively buy Dragon Herbs or Jing Herbs, as they seem to be of highest quality and in the case of Dragon Herbs, they carry many Chinese herbs that are harder to find. Here's what they said about Quality Control : 

 

It is not yet possible to make herbal products from strictly organic materials. The “organic” system has not been implemented extensively in China or other Asian countries yet for herbs. That does not mean that the herbs are not grown by organic methods, however. In fact, all of our herbs are grown by methods that would make them certifiable in America. All of our herbs are grown in pristine regions without the use of chemicals, chemical fertilizers, or any form of genetic engineering. Water sources are natural and clean as a result of the mountain sources. Also, many of our herbs are wild crafted, and this is a type of growing that cannot be easily classified as “organic.” These herbs are grown from seed thrown into a natural environment (a mountain forest or a desert, for example) and allowed to grow naturally without human interference. And of course, some of our herbs are true wild herbs (Ginseng, Rhodiola, Schizandra, Snow Lotus, Wild Reishi, etc.). Wild herbs cannot be termed “organic” because they are not cultivated. But they are often better than the cultivated varieties.

 

 

They bring up good points, but there's really no way to tell how strictly they monitor things over in China, or if they're straight up lying. Having read Ron Teeguarden's book and all of his blog posts, as well as the info on the website, I am of the persuasion that he is very passionate about only sourcing the best material available, or that he is an excellent liar and salesman. Personally I'm going to take my risks, as I believe any risks posed are minimal, and while I want to be cautious, I'm not going to go through life passing up things because of the "fear of the unknown."

 

The site goes on to say - 

 

Also, contrary to the impression presented in the press, the Chinese government is VERY interested in the purity of Chinese herbs. Herbs in China must meet strict standards and factories are modern and excellent. They have advanced machinery, superb water purification systems, and state-of-the-art procedures that meet U.S. FDA criteria. Our factories are extremely advanced. They are extremely clean. They are strictly pharmaceutical grade facilities. These facilities also meet European and Japanese standards, since they also supply products to these countries. The standards in Europe and Japan are extremely strict.

 

Dragon Herbs is subject to oversight by the U.S. FDA, the U.S.D.A., the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Agency, U.S. Customs, and other government agencies. All of our shipments from overseas are delayed at Customs for FDA inspection and possible inspection by other agencies. These agencies almost always take samples for laboratory analysis. We are very proud of our record in this regard, as our goods are always passed.

 

 

 

I can vouch for their products as being very effective and in many cases of noticeably better quality than some other brands (Plum Flower, Superman Herbs, etc.) Also, I am in no way affiliated with the company, or Jing Herbs, or any other company for that matter, they simply post the most information about these herbs on their sites and carry (in my opinion) quality products.

[meth_use_lah]

Several of Dragon Herbs products has a warning label saying that the product will expose you to lead.

[normalizing]

there was a report of one member here while ago using dragon herbs with unwanted side effects possibly due to contamination. i dont trust shit goingprimal says

[GoingPrimal]

Several of Dragon Herbs products has a warning label saying that the product will expose you to lead.

 

Yeah it's part of California's Prop 65, which mandates listing any known carcinogen in or on products. Many products (including plain black coffee) at all Starbucks locations in California share similar warnings, new cars, many products on the shelves at many stores.. Essentially most things in our modern world. Not saying you don't have to worry about the warning on the DH products.

 

 

i dont trust shit goingprimal says

 

That's smart, we shouldn't be too trusting of random people on internet forums, even if it is on a great forum such as this.

[Flex]

Here are, supposedly, some epigenetic altering herbs:

Herbal and Compound derived epigenetic alterations via HDAC and others

http://www.longecity...dac-and-others/

[normalizing]

what does epigenetic alterations mean? from what i know, it must mean, some kind of turn on of a switch without turning the main switch on. it seems to be homeostasis??

[Flex]

Your inicial genes dont change, but that what is readed out & translated (e.g. mao-a, receptors) and what not.

Genes are afaik altered only just by damage and point-mutations.

This "could" occur even in a life time, so not only by inherent mechanisms

Woman 'cured by lucky DNA mutation'

http://www.bbc.com/n...health-31145601

 

It means furthermore that this is somewhat a dynamic process but also an enduringly one (think of aqusition of trauma related behavior and their long lasting presence),

but You´re able to "reset" Your epigenetic to some extend ( I´m saying "some" because there are several mechanism, which arent the same)

Epigenetics do change after the first Cigarette in Your life or hard drugs,by medications e.g. Antidepressants, by a traumatic event, Food and so on.

 

In regards of Homeostasis, I personally think that this is one kind of inducer.

 

Btw:

Methylation does afaik usually depress the translation, which would be good in the case of e.g mao expression, cancer promoters (oncogenes)

Acetylation does activate the translation and therefore the expression of various targets.

 

Phosphorylation is a nonepigenetic activation/deactivation of targets (afaik mostly activation)

http://en.wikipedia....Phosphorylation

However the activation of e.g. dopamine D1 receptors or Glutamate receptors can induce an epigenetic alteration on its self.

As You can imagine, this seems to be a compliated loop where many targets influences many other and indirectly even themselves.

 

Edited by Flex, 16 February 2015 - 01:07 PM.

[normalizing]

well, berore i even understood this concept, i always stood up for the idea that poisons in small quanitites are good for you. imagine the perfect world with only vitamns and good food. it will be an overdrive. you do need shit like BPA to get some progression going at some point.

[Flex]

That may be.

When I began to recherche, I allways thought that there are good and bad proteins (or whatever)

Nowadays it looks like a balance to me.

Even synuclein can have a positive function.

 

The remarkable conformational plasticity of alpha-synuclein: blessing or curse?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23648364

 

Edit: have to relativize the claim in the prevorious post,

HDAC inhibition (so activation) can fight cancer instead to promote.

 

Excuses

New and emerging HDAC inhibitors for cancer treatment

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3871231/

 

Edited by Flex, 17 February 2015 - 09:38 PM.

[Flex]

Hordenine seems to be at least indirectly a selective Mao-B inhibitor

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2570842

Things are a bit confusing, but it seems to act via occupation of the mao-b and thus blocking the metabolism of the other amines:

http://www.getnitram...ients/hordenine

 

 

[gamesguru]

Enhancement of Amygdaloid Neuronal Dendritic Arborization by Fresh Leaf Juice of Centella asiatica
http://www.hindawi.c...009/247831/abs/

Centella asiatica Leaf Extract Treatment During the Growth Spurt Period Enhances Hippocampal CA3 Neuronal Dendritic Arborization
http://www.hindawi.c...006/627102/abs/

Altered dendritic arborization of amygdala neurons in young adult rats orally intubated with Clitorea ternatea aqueous root extract
http://onlinelibrary...r.1657/abstract