14 replies to this topic

[Hixy]

I have a few very simple questions:

 

1. When do we say that someone is 'smart'? Or 'intelligent'?
    
2. What would you consider to be the top 10 (or however many you can think or) toughest intellectual tasks to do/master? And why?
   - E.g. play a certain piano piece, become chess grandmaster, achieve a high IQ score, publish papers in mathematics/theoretical physics, draw a painting that becomes world-renowned, create a sculpture, become famous, become rich etc. (just those that came to my mind)

I am looking forward to your responses :-)

Edited by Hixy, 22 July 2014 - 11:32 AM.

[Lewis Carroll]

Technically, intelligence is simply a subjective measurement based on a specific Intelligence Test. So, when one scores a high rank on an Intelligence Test, the individual could be considered smart/intelligence in regards to whatever that specific IQ Test was measuring. In Psychology, "intelligence" seems to be a very vague concept. Is someone smart when they posses Emotional Intelligence? Social Intelligence? Creative Intelligence? I suppose that is up to you to decide depending on what you constitute as being smart or intelligent.

 

Becoming a chess grandmaster, developing a new scientific theory, perfecting a musical instrument and then creating music, becoming a superb artist, developing an extraordinary memory . . . these would be tasks that, when possessed, I would label one as having conquered a "tough intellectual task".

Edited by MajinBrian, 25 July 2014 - 01:13 AM.

[Tesla]

1. I've never categorized people as smart or intelligent by means of metrics--SAT scores, IQ, or misc standardized tasks. The most intelligent people I know are the ones that seem 'on the ball' and astute in a variety of situations, quick to perceive changes. Seems as though they are more aware... more awake. Almost seems they know the 'secret': we really do have control over this reality if we are motivated to make changes to it. More conscious, I guess. With that ability alone, so many doors are opened. However, it is possible there is an underlying governing factor to this level of awareness (maybe IQ/short-term memory), but I spot their perception first. It's all in the eyes.

 

2. Toughest intellectual tasks:

• Emotion Intelligence and Charisma - People are infinitely unpredictable, interesting, and odd. To truly know someone, you have to pay attention to all the signs and connect the dots. Social stimulation also shows promise in strengthening the brains ability to fight off certain forms of dementia... so I guess it's a very strong mental workout.
• Story Telling - Combination of the first task, but with the addition of captivating an audiences attention. To bring someone into your own imagination, SHOW them a story, not just telling it. When you hear a tale from a true story teller, you never forget it.
• Persistence with Rigor - If things go wrong, you have to have a fire of motivation and confidence that is impossible to put out. The act of trusting yourself completely is a rare and difficult thing to acquire. It is the true key to success and fulfillment. "I won't stop until _____________.", and you mean it.
• Mindfulness - Related to no. 1, the ability to be aware of your very being is a very powerful thing. It strikes true motivation into your heart, and blocks out the biased. Practicing mindfulness sounds like a meditation, but it seems more and more like a lifestyle the more I practice it. Plus, it's exhausting.

[wigglywinks]

Haha, most of the replies to this thread will be "whatever I am, that is intelligence" (including mine).

 

I would say it's the ability to think about and understand things at a deep enough level. That includes asking intelligent questions. 

 

"What would you consider to be the top 10 (or however many you can think or) toughest intellectual tasks to do/master? And why?"

 

I don't really have a top 10 list, but just from my experiences, beginning with learning advanced physics and mathematics was the hardest thing I've ever done. Once you get used to it, it becomes a lot easier, but to be able to understand extremely abstract concepts and write mathematical proofs, or solve physics problems that take you two weeks to figure out what you're even trying to do, I had to learn a completely new way of thinking. I'm not saying I'm some kind of genius or something because I think anyone can do it if they try hard enough, but it's certainly not easy at first.

[redFishBlueFish]

 

1. I've never categorized people as smart or intelligent by means of metrics--SAT scores, IQ, or misc standardized tasks. The most intelligent people I know are the ones that seem 'on the ball' and astute in a variety of situations, quick to perceive changes. Seems as though they are more aware... more awake. Almost seems they know the 'secret': we really do have control over this reality if we are motivated to make changes to it. More conscious, I guess. With that ability alone, so many doors are opened. However, it is possible there is an underlying governing factor to this level of awareness (maybe IQ/short-term memory), but I spot their perception first. It's all in the eyes.

 

2. Toughest intellectual tasks:

• Emotion Intelligence and Charisma - People are infinitely unpredictable, interesting, and odd. To truly know someone, you have to pay attention to all the signs and connect the dots. Social stimulation also shows promise in strengthening the brains ability to fight off certain forms of dementia... so I guess it's a very strong mental workout.
• Story Telling - Combination of the first task, but with the addition of captivating an audiences attention. To bring someone into your own imagination, SHOW them a story, not just telling it. When you hear a tale from a true story teller, you never forget it.
• Persistence with Rigor - If things go wrong, you have to have a fire of motivation and confidence that is impossible to put out. The act of trusting yourself completely is a rare and difficult thing to acquire. It is the true key to success and fulfillment. "I won't stop until _____________.", and you mean it.
• Mindfulness - Related to no. 1, the ability to be aware of your very being is a very powerful thing. It strikes true motivation into your heart, and blocks out the biased. Practicing mindfulness sounds like a meditation, but it seems more and more like a lifestyle the more I practice it. Plus, it's exhausting.

 

I would agree with this and I want to include the mental ability to learn most things with little to no effort. I know a few people like this AND they have the social skills like you've described above. These people have had really good upbringings though, so it isn't really fair to compare them to anyone else but people like them. I guess their only downfall would be the lack of compassion for others, they are tremendously into themselves.

[cats_lover]

The book (Daniel Goleman`s) Emotional Intelligence makes a good discution about the complexity of the term "intelligence".

You also must consider -theory of multiple intelligences- (Howard Gardner).

Maybe the term "cognitive skills" is more appropriate than "intelligence".

A simple way to define intelligence is the ability of an individual to solve a problem. However, those individuals who best solved a problem of one type (eg mathematical problem) are not good at solving other problems (improve the cohesion of a group of people for example).

So we have different types of intelligence ...

[Ace Silver]

From what I am aware, Einstein said, "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination". Socrates said, "I know I'm intelligent, because I know that I know nothing at all".  A theory sprouted that previous definitions of intelligence are too narrow because they are based solely on intelligence's that can be assessed in IQ test. So now modern neurologist look at intelligence in categories that they label as creative, practical and analytic.  These are only THEORIES and I personally believe Socrates and Einstein were on the right track with what they said. Imagination allows you to create ANYTHING in your mind;therefore, being able to figure out math problems (seeing the numbers or variables and calculating the result), render a scene from a movie you just watched, recalling that last chapter you just read, how about even the idea of the engine for a car; It's not like a bunch of people were walking around with the idea of a car engine, it originated somewhere in that one person's brain (maybe someone else had a similar idea, but didn't know how to put it down on paper), then when if they shared the idea to another person that  then led to them sharing that information with others or even figuring out a better way of going about the physical creation of this. The idea then sprouts like a Fibonacci sequence on a sunflower, the idea of the engine was created physically and then became even more refined as it spread to other people, in their imagination. So Einstein, in my opinion, nailed it! Socrates brings up a good point when he says that he is intelligent because he is aware that he knows nothing at all. Again, in my opinion, I believe that we humans know a lot... we know a lot for human beings, but when it comes to understanding the universe we know nothing. Science is FILLED TO THE BRIM with theories and those theories only lead to MORE theories. ALLLLLLL rules go out the window when you go subatomic. Scientists have found in quantum mechanics that a photon or electron can be a particle or a wave.... that means it's both moving and standing still at the same time and that when we look at something we change it's behavior... Crazy, right? yeah. There is an endless amount of things we need to figure out and we have only scratched the surface. So use your imagination and use as motivation that we know nothing at all. It will help to think this way so as to figure out new and exciting things to keep our species wondering and progressing. After all, the fun of living is the mystery, right? keep imagining! Thanks for reading.   

Edited by Ace Silver, 09 September 2014 - 03:18 AM.

[Ace Silver]

BUMP, anyone still interested in this topic?

[cats_lover]

BUMP, anyone still interested in this topic?

 

I'm really not so much interested in "definitions" for smart or intelligence, for me this is (in some way) an abstract definition. When i must solve a problem (a math problem for example) i just read the problem and my brain do the hard work. I can solve the problem in 10 minutes, another people can solve it faster and some people just cannot solve the problem, so their brains are inefficient in some way solving this kind of problems.

I'm so interested in increase my cognitive performance (be able to solve the problem faster or be able to solve more complex problems), but no so much interested in a more correct definition for the term intelligence.

Of course a correct definition of these terms are very important for cognitive enhancement research.

Anyway i think that it is an interesting post

Edited by cats_lover, 12 September 2014 - 10:45 PM.

[jroseland]

There's one simple thing you can say during a conversation or while public speaking that can almost completely destroy people's impressions of you. It's something that you actually hear people say all the time too, you've even probably said it before.

 

'I'm an intelligent person'

 

Every time I hear this, especially as a defensive statement or from someone I just met I know I am dealing with someone who likes to stroke their own ego. Intelligence is very subjective quality so this is something that should always be proved as opposed to told.

 

Consider that there are 9 different forms of intelligence.
1. Naturalist Intelligence ("Nature Smart")
2. Musical Intelligence ("Musical Smart")
3. Logical-Mathematical Intelligence ("Number/Reasoning Smart")
4. Existential Intelligence ("Philosophical Smarts")
5. Interpersonal Intelligence ("People Smart")
6. Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence ("Body Smart")
7. Linguistic Intelligence ("Word Smart")
8. Intra-personal Intelligence ("Self Smart")
9. Spatial Intelligence ("Picture Smart")
Everyone on this planet is intelligent in at least one of these 9 forms, so making a blanket generalization of saying you are intelligent is like saying: I breath oxygen and eat food. By making this statement you are revealing yourself as lacking in Interpersonal Intelligence ("People Smart"), Linguistic Intelligence ("Word Smart") & Intra-personal Intelligence (Self Smart").

 

Any time you find yourself tempted to say 'I'm an intelligent person' do this instead:
a) Think of what form of intelligence you are strong in.
b) Find a way to prove and show your intelligence in this area.

 

The Exception: The rare case in which you do want to blatantly state that you are intelligent is when its already been proved or when other people are saying it first. Even then realize that it's a very egotistical statement.

Edited by jroseland, 03 October 2014 - 07:35 PM.

[Russ Maughan]

When do we say that someone is 'smart'? Or 'intelligent'?
Usually because they have more money than they need.
 
What would you consider to be the top 10 (or however many you can think or) toughest intellectual tasks to do/master? And why?
1. Raising children, keeping them safe from emotional dissorders.
2. Providing employment people can count on to secure a home and grow as human beings.
3. Getting my head around Medical Science. Definitions I sometimes have to backtrack 5 to 10 more definitions in dictionary to fully compehend.
4.

[Multivitz]

Gef the third eye working and get like Lawnmower man, without the drugs. Oh I forgot most of you guys have been conditioned to think they are safe lol

Yeah you missed one.....there's one missing....Spiritually!?
Left brain says to right brain, "you can talk?". Third eye says, "when the #@ck are you going to let me join in?". Right brain replys, "I can imagine it being any time."
Spirituality gives timming and empathy. Great intellegents that are lacking in most, and decided for leaders by departments are they not!!?

[teacult]

I have got a complete DNA analysis, and crosschecked some SNP's (single nucleotid polymorphism). There are 2 definitions in literature I ve come across in pubmed. 
1-Cognitive performance

2-Intelligence

And there are a lot of genes associated with them ... 
I am sure there are very clear and detailed definitions about them. (In brain regions and neurotransmitters-wise ...)

[Julia36]

Great question Hixy, and great & long) to answer.

 

We did it hierarchically. eg

 

Top down.

 

Does intelligence exist anywhere? How does it work? If you cant know how it works, what are your best guesses?

 

Bottom up

 

What can you build?

eg a neuron? a network?

 

 

We thought a general working definition of intelligence was useful, so defined it as general problem solving.

 

 

Also a unit of intelligence was thought useful too, so we called it a joule ie

1joule of intelligence  - and defined it as the movement of one digit toward the goal of problem solving.

 

A goal is a finishing point...sometimes there be no end to it...you keep going, but it is still a goal)

 

Next we had to look at how we would construct it and our first attempt was using computers ie Intelligence -Memory modification @ speed (I=MS) This satisfied solving 'learning'.

 

Unfortunately you would run into complexity and memory storage limits like this so we had to redesign.

 

Deep Learning doesn't reply on memory but solves each task anew which is fun. It uses back propagation, and the human brain doesn't so the principles diverge.

 

Hard to see how far neuromorphics will go, except that intelligence is not only a product of the system, but of the environment which modifies it this way.

 

It's probably great to think like Pythagorus and Plato that everything is describable in number, has order, and is capable of measurement.

 

 

If you're going for a build, remember you have to be able to turn it off/make it safe,

and it's too easy to get unnecessarily delayed in philosophy.

 

 

[Multivitz]

I have got a complete DNA analysis, and crosschecked some SNP's (single nucleotid polymorphism). There are 2 definitions in literature I ve come across in pubmed.
1-Cognitive performance
2-Intelligence

And there are a lot of genes associated with them ...
I am sure there are very clear and detailed definitions about them. (In brain regions and neurotransmitters-wise ...)

Ok. DNA from our descendants is helpful, but the cell wall determines the cultures performamce. DNA is a product of the environment, be it mental, intracellular, electric, nutritional, so it's a weak sign of intelligence at the most.
We are all created with equal potential, the interaction ability of an entity is a natrual process and can be seen throughout the universe. Having meaningful personal interaction with others seems to be the benchmark of one deciding wether they are intelligent, or no so intellegent. For example, a exam/test can be used to judge an Individuals intelligence, the ones who devised the test look for answers that are personal to their understanding of what they consider are the correct and acceptable answers.