613 replies to this topic

[resveratrol_guy]

I had an unexpected repeat of the "vivid dream syndrome". But this time, it was an actual dream, as opposed to the lucid variety. I haven't taken any NGF since my previous dose above, although I'm still on lion's mane.

The dream itself was exceptionally realistic, and perhaps more importantly flowed in a plausible way. It would make a gripping scifi movie, actually. In a very compressed summary: I found myself in the late 2100s, riding a transoceanic train across the Malaysian Interisland Transportation System (MITS), a floating road network spanning hundreds of kilometers across the sea. Ultimately, a tsunami ended up destroying a train station just as I disembarked, in cinematic fashion. In the panic, I "woke up" to find myself on a cruise ship decades earlier, during the construction of MITS when the progenitors to the floating freeways were being used as docks for titanic cruise ships. I was relieved that it was all a dream, no doubt borne out of my fascination with MITS, so I continued working on my computer in the business center. Suddenly, our ship was jolted by a sharp impact. Once again, panic broke out and a huge crowd of people poured out onto the gangway from the ship. It turns out that the timeline forked at this point, in that the tsunami recurred in this much earlier timeframe, laying waste to the ship and throwing the future of MITS into chaos. The last thing I remember was bolting down the shaking cement dock, fleeing the cruise ship along with throngs of escapees, struggling to keep my balance despite the pummeling waves. Suddenly, time slowed to a crawl, and I could see people's panicked expressions, and the foamy crest of a particularly massive wave as it encroached on the dock. Then, mercifully, I awoke, heart beating rapidly, in a cold sweat.

I don't make this stuff up, and I honestly can't recall the last time I had a scifi movie running in my head as a dream, or for that matter, such a logical and flowing plot as opposed to random bouncing between thinly connected episodes.

I did bump the left side of my head last night, but only slightly. And I did recently start taking oxaloacetate, but thousands of people take it, too. Likewise for every-other-day LLLT.

So yeah, this might be a later-stage indirect impact of NGF. Or maybe I'm just going insane. Either way, if you know a producer, have them call me.
 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 06 September 2015 - 02:16 AM.

[Izan]

I had an unexpected repeat of the "vivid dream syndrome". But this time, it was an actual dream, as opposed to the lucid variety. I haven't taken any NGF since my previous dose above, although I'm still on lion's mane.

The dream itself was exceptionally realistic, and perhaps more importantly flowed in a plausible way. It would make a gripping scifi movie, actually. In a very compressed summary: I found myself in the late 2100s, riding a transoceanic train across the Malaysian Interisland Transportation System (MITS), a floating road network spanning hundreds of kilometers across the sea. Ultimately, a tsunami ended up destroying a train station just as I disembarked, in cinematic fashion. In the panic, I "woke up" to find myself on a cruise ship decades earlier, during the construction of MITS when the progenitors to the floating freeways were being used as docks for titanic cruise ships. I was relieved that it was all a dream, no doubt borne out of my fascination with MITS, so I continued working on my computer in the business center. Suddenly, our ship was jolted by a sharp impact. Once again, panic broke out and a huge crowd of people poured out onto the gangway from the ship. It turns out that the timeline forked at this point, in that the tsunami recurred in this much earlier timeframe, laying waste to the ship and throwing the future of MITS into chaos. The last thing I remember was bolting down the shaking cement dock, fleeing the cruise ship along with throngs of escapees, struggling to keep my balance despite the pummeling waves. Suddenly, time slowed to a crawl, and I could see people's panicked expressions, and the foamy crest of a particularly massive wave as it encroached on the dock. Then, mercifully, I awoke, heart beating rapidly, in a cold sweat.

I don't make this stuff up, and I honestly can't recall the last time I had a scifi movie running in my head as a dream, or for that matter, such a logical and flowing plot as opposed to random bouncing between thinly connected episodes.

I did bump the left side of my head last night, but only slightly. And I did recently start taking oxaloacetate, but thousands of people take it, too. Likewise for every-other-day LLLT.

So yeah, this might be a later-stage indirect impact of NGF. Or maybe I'm just going insane. Either way, if you know a producer, have them call me.
 

does your memory continu to improve?

[playground]

Lots of updates...

 

First of all, we might need to coadminister galantamine (GAL) in order to remove amyloid precursor protein (APP) deposits in the cerebrovasculature, as shown here in a study of AD11 NGF-impotent mice treated with intranasal NGF. Galantamine is FDA-approved for AD and vascular dementia, so it shouldn't be too difficult or expensive to obtain. The study also comes with this handy Figure 3A showing the relative impact of various rhNGF (not mNGF) concentrations on cholinergic neuron regeneration. By the way, this is was a 2002 study published by Rita! (What have we been doing for 13 years?!)

 

------------

 

Oh and by the way, the study says "Recombinant human NGF (rhNGF) (Alomone Laboratories, Jerusalem) was delivered intra-nasally..." That sounds familiar! It's the Isreali company that I previously identified. They are still in Jerusalem, so it looks like Rita's Italian research team were getting their rhNGF from this exact source. (Considering that this was a decade before her death, it really makes me wonder whether this was also her personal source.) Wiki notes that: "Born and raised in a Sephardic Jewish family in which culture and love of learning were categorical imperatives, she abandoned religion and embraced atheism." This would nevertheless suggest social ties to Isreal. Might she have known the management at Alomone? I think we're getting closer to solving this mystery.

 

Furthermore Santa Cruz Biotech says of its own NGF: "Store at 4C, **DO NOT FREEZE**. Stable for one year from the date of shipment." So I wonder if Alomone is overstating the deep freeze requirements on its NGF (which in fact it says is shipped at room temperature!). Maybe our thermal worries are just the result of a typo on their website.

 

And finally, we have this 2005 intranasal NGF study to dump on the pile of evidence, if it hasn't been mentioned previously.

 

very interesting RG.

 

[playground]

 

Does that mean that we can take it with garlic and it will work long term?
Does that mean that we can take it with garlic and it will work long term?
Does that mean that we can take it with garlic and it will work long term?

 

I don't think the study is about administering garlic and lion's mane extract together, but rather giving the growing Lion's Mane mushrooms garlic extract, which then causes an increase in their potency when they are mature. Basically, we're talking about giving our drugs drugs so they can be better drugs, so we can be better... er... drugs for each other.

 

With this in mind, what I'm proposing is we find a mushroom cultivar who would be willing to take a bulk order made to the specifications of this experiment. Of course, it would be best if we waited for a corroborating study, but I don't know how much attention this experiment recieved in the research community.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification DD :-)
 

Edited by playground, 08 September 2015 - 02:55 AM.

[playground]

 

 

 

 

 

how did this become a thread about lion's mane.i took various supplements containing it and it never worked. neither do i know of any actual long term noticably good report.

 

We've been talking about Lion's Mane because it works to amplify NGF expression.

The suggestion has been made several times that a good strategy would be to

take NGF with Lion's mane.  So this is all part of the same project.

 

It's probable that you've taken only 'fruiting body' or 'full spectrum' lion's mane in the past.

It seems (now) that the best lion's mane is the mycelium lion's mane.

 

There are probably longer term Lion's Mane studies going on right  now in China, Japan, Korea etc.

We have to wait for someone to write them up.... and then translate them into english.

 

Playground

 

 

 

i did the fungi perfecti which is the mycelium. i trialed bottles in different time periods. first few times i noticed anxiety which wasnt good. tho, mild, felt a bit like nicotine. but then i tried at least 3 bottles more in later times, ZERO. i was using them mainly for concentration since i was in shit mode from MDMA abuse.

 

i read actual lions mane in Asia is completely different from the one in US, so perhaps maybe they are more potent and actually work compared to american?? for example, some species of lion's mane have different structures and color too!

 

also, doesnt it matter that lion mane naturally grows on (living) wood? im sure growing it on anything else will absolutely effect its quality!

 

 

 

It does, indeed! Actually, there was a recent experiment that enriched the lion's mane culture medium with garlic extract and managed to get the benefits a lot closer to the results of pure NGF! I hadn't been thinking about this thread when I read the study, but this might be the breakthrough we need! Is there a mushroom cultivar with the proper facilities for such a project as highlighed in the study I linked? Also, if anyone is able to find corroborating evidence of the study's results, that would be helpful, too.

 

In the study, by the way, it would seem that the extract that included the entire mycelium was much more effective than the extract filtered out... I think. I'm not the best with the graphs and the study's language isn't the easiest to follow. Having some other discerning minds analyze the lab report would be helpful. Still, I think this holds the promise of being dramatically cheaper while still sacrificing a small fraction of the benefits of pure NGF, without the dangers of dirty synthesis and difficult sourcing.

 

 

 

from what i read on this article you posted, it seems a very very long and very complicated manner of combining those two together in the best most proper way. how the hell would you think anyone can actually do this in their home anyway?

 

 

 

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we hire a professional mushroom cultivar to do it for a fee, similar to a custom lab synth. I imagine there are plenty of mushroom cultivars that specialize in making tinctures and extracts, considering the size of that industry, and so I'd imagine they might even have the proper equipment to do the entire procedure.

 

Also, it doesn't seem like that complicated of a procedure to grow the actual mushrooms. The extraction process seems to be where most of the convolution lies in the process. I'm not actually familiar enough with lab filtration techniques to clearly follow it, though, so it might be easier to do than I would presume. It seems to be more predicated on having the proper equipment as to whether things would go smoothly. I think someone with a formidable home lab setup with a centrifuge could do this entire experiment.
 

 

 

That's an excellent idea.

I would like to suggest something which is easier and cheaper.

 

Instead of hiring someone to do this work... 

Why not simply send a copy of the paper to  Paul Stammets.

He's a professor in mushroom/fungus horticulture... he's the guy who runs Fungi Perfecti.

He will be very interested by those results. 

Probably, he'll have his own theories on how or why (or if) this works.

It may be very easy to persuade him to run a replication trial.

 

You might do the same thing for the people at Matrix Mushrooms...

...and any other mushroom grower you can find out there.

 

playground.

 

 

[playground]

Finally! I managed to chat with a rep from Sino Biological. While she made it clear that their products are for research use only (as though we didn't know that), they will indeed ship to individuals. It's $748/mg, which is close to the global bottom, as previously discussed. Perhaps 100 ug ($138) or 500 ug ($448) would be useful to certain individuals; we just don't know all that much about dose and effect, not the least of which because there is more than one effect phase and pathway.

 

But do any of you care? Does it make sense to buy their product, then throw it to a trustworthy test lab to produce an independent CoA -- or just not, and save the money, and pray it's safe? Considering that this may be "the" choice we have, I think it's worth some discussion. What do you all think?

 

good work RG :-)

[playground]

OK let me attempt to deconstruct what happened in my previous post.

 

So first of all, while it's difficult to describe precisely what occurred, I think it would be best characterized as a surge in vizualization capability, in terms of resolution and detail, synergized with an opening of the memory floodgates. I actually saw some decades-old objects that I hadn't remembered in many years. It's as though someone broke into my memory vault, and the images just started pouring out the sides. But it wasn't totally random. For example, I would see an object in my old apartment, then the same object again in an even older living situation. Much of it was flying through places that I had been, either just recently, or decades ago. While I obviously can't go back to those places to see how accurate the images were, the appearance of these long-forgotten objects suggests to me that some pathways got unlocked.

 

Now, as I've said in my thread, shiitake-maitake extract has been known to give me excellent visual recall for several hours at a time. But I ran out a couple days ago and haven't yet acquired a refill. So fortunately, given its relatively short half life, we can disregard that possibility. And even in that case, while my ability to visualize hypothetical situations improves significantly, the visual memory enhancement begins shortly after taking a pill; it does not generally extend to events prior to that.

 

So while there are a lot of commonalities between the second and third NGF dosing experiences, most of them have been the same for a long time. For instance, I really doubt that the vitamin pill I've been taking for years has caused a sudden surge in my vizualization capabilities. Because I stopped eating in the afternoon yesterday, the NGF spray is among the most proximate causes in both cases. I think I just dismissed that idea previously because it had not occurred on my first dose. (In hindsight, that makes sense, considering that it was only a tenth as much as the second and third.) Importantly, I had no such episode on the day that I did not take it; but on that day, I still had my usual few grams of lion's mane.

 

Now, I don't think that this is the whole story. I think there are supporting actors here, without which this might not have occurred with such intensity. Here are my prime suspects, which are common to both days, as well as recent regimen changes:

 

NGF nasal spray (Ocean brand nasal saline with a ug or 2 of betaNGF)

lion's mane (dosed for over a month, recently increased to 4-6 grams per day, Fungi Perfecti brand)

nicotinamide (500 mg before bed, shortly before NGF delivery)

methylcobalamin (5000 ug at same time as nicotinamide, Jarrow brand)

melatonin (300 ug, extended release, LEF brand)

Blue Machine juice (1 small bottle from Naked Juice, taken hours prior)

 

If it's not the NGF spray that's doing this, then it must be that I've crossed a threshold with the lion's mane. I find that a bit improbable, however, because I merely doubled the dose, and the visual memory episodes were radical, sudden departures in capability, which I would not expect after a month on this supplement. But who knows, maybe 4 grams is the magic threshold for me. Even then, the fact that this did not occur on the night when I did not insufflate NGF is suggestive as to the real cause.

 

I should add that I have no reason at present to believe that there is any other benefit underway apart from this particular capacity, and the aforementioned olfactory enhancement. For the record, the latter began 2 days ago as a bout of parosmia episodes superimposed on a normal but subdued olfactory capability. (For example, I smelled a faint bleach odor in my room, when none had been used there in months.) Then yesterday, I noticed a distinct improvement in such. It was for this particular reason that I decided to go back to NGF -- on the hopes that further enhancement was to be had, which then seems to have precipitated the foregoing event.

 

I should make a few notes on methodology, as well. First of all, when I dripped it into my nose with my head tilted back, I tried to hit the little area which "buzzes" just before you sneeze; it's my understanding that this is the olfactory bulb. Secondly, I tried and mostly succeeded at preventing the liquid from escaping into my throat, blowing it back out into a tissue after a minute or so. Roughly, I would say that I had administered 20 drops to each nostril before each such delayed blowout. The downside of all this is that it left my anterior nasal region sore and burning, probably from the sodium and other preservatives in the nasal spray. And finally, I cleaned everything out with "normal" nasal spray and another blowout after the fact, followed by use of a nasal humidifing machine for relief of the soreness. So if I make more nasal spray, I will definitely use a higher concentration of NGF.

 

It's also noteworthy that the associated dull headache started in the front on the right, and spread gradually to the midline on both sides during the visualization event. This would be roughly consistent with the insufflation location and subsequent diffusion, which we know to occur based on the rabbit studies mentioned above. And actually, it follows roughly the same hour-or-two front-to-back diffusion timeline from that study. It's also different from my shiitake-maitake experience, which generally does not induce a headache.

 

I do want to emphasize that what occurred yesterday did not involve hallucination, in the sense that while the "movie" was vividly believable, I knew it was a movie. Granted, it continued in the back of my mind even after getting up from bed.

 

I'm going to try a few more experiments in order to narrow this down. It's possible, of course, that I've discovered that Blue Machine plus lion's mane results in a visual memory explosion. (That would be an economical breakthrough!) We'll see.

 

wow... excellent work RG :-)

 

[playground]

My sense of smell has noticeably improved in the last couple days. Among other things, I've become offended by the chlorine in my tap water that never used to bother me. I don't know if this results from betaNGF, although that would make sense if it's real.

 

I also switched, yesterday, from about 5g/day of Fungi Perfecti lion's mane to about the same amount of Aloha Medicinals. My expectation is that the latter is actually inferior because it contains more of the fruiting body, which is supposed to be sort of useless. But perhaps this has something to do with the olfactory improvement. I should also note that, whereas Fungi Perfecti tastes like delicious seafood, the Aloha stuff is rather medicinal indeed. It might just be that Aloha is less adulterated with tasty grain products from the growing medium.

 

Actually, Fungi Perfecti _also_ sells full spectrum.  It's also contains the fruiting body (not just the roots)

 

I  emailed both matrix mushrooms and Fungi Perfecti to ask them what they did with the fruting body

when they sold their Lions Mane.  Both companies put the whole mushroom in the product.

So both companies are selling full spectrum.

[resveratrol_guy]

 

does your memory continu to improve?

 

 

This is, of course, the big question. Let me answer you this way...

 

So based on that postmortem study of intracranial NGF recipients discussed above, it sounds like new neurons sprout with their axons converging at the point of NGF injection. So if we extend that concept to intranasal betaNGF, it implies that we should get axonal branching first in the olfactory bulbs (which are exposed to air), and subsequently in the olfactory nerve (in the brain). And indeed, my sense of smell is as good now as it ever was while on high daily doses of cacao. In other words, local neurogenesis appears to have worked.

 

Now, here we are, many days post-betaNGF, and I've had a second night of extraordinarily vivid dreams. I'll spare you the rather hilarious details, but I'm left wondering how the brain is able to synthesize all of this rich content -- people's faces, skyscraper architecture, luxury dining experiences, other people's actions, etc. -- with no apparent effort. I really don't know where all this is coming from, frankly. What I do know from piles of existing research is that the evolutionary purpose of dreams is to facilitate refinement of brain function as applies to plausible modes of environmental interaction. Granted, I'm not likely to encounter a floating train or a tsunami any time soon, but all manner of physical, social, and emotional interactions in the MITS dream intimately reflect everyday reality and therefore serve as good practice for everyday cognitive function. In other words, dreams facilitate the neurological retraining required for clincally significant cognitive improvement. Will the retraining manifest as such? I don't know yet.

 

Topographically, the effects have flowed from the olfactory nerve to wherever this "dream center" is located. Based on studies of temporal lobe epilepsy, I would imagine that most of it takes place there, in the temporal lobes. So it sort of sounds like the neurological impacts of NGF flowed outward from the olfactory nerves and into the temporal lobes, either by NGF migration itself (which we know occurs) or more likely by domino effects of neurogenesis elsewhere. (I really mean NGF. As I understand it, betaNGF should convert to NGF rapidly upon introduction to the CNS.)

 

I do not at this point think that I've hit the hippocampus hard enough to manifest in solid memory gains, however. I'm currently using LLLT directly aimed through the eyes in an attempt to do exactly that. I started doing so shortly before the first vivid dream, so perhaps this was the reason, but I doubt it because I don't recall such reports. If I notice any further improvements I'll report them, although I don't expect much more from such a small NGF dose. Granted, I'm doing so much therapy that it's hard to say what, in fact, is responsible. Caloric restriction is no doubt a huge factor, as well.

 

What I have noticed is that I seem to more alert and responsive, despite having much the same memory performance as when I first took betaNGF.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 08 September 2015 - 04:02 AM.

[playground]

ive been taking 1ug per day for about a week now of betaNGF and can confirm that my memory has improved and my concentration has improved a lot... interesting you mentioned sense of smell is increased as mine has too.. absolutely zero uncomfortable effects - all positive thus far.. I didn't think much of it until I read your post there..  so far so good here  oh and yeah - i too had a good experience on Day 1 - i wasn't expecting to notice anything really for a while but I am happy to say it seems to work well right out of the gate..  i should mention that i am not taking anything else that would magnify or interfere with it in any way... I take my daily vitamins and I take a very healthy dose of epitalon aka agag along with a couple other telomere lengthening products...  I'll post an update once a month or so as long as I remember....  and I don't think that will be an issue haha

 

hi positiveeddy,

 

I'm very interested in your betaNGF experiences and how

you actually go about using it.  I hope you don't mind if i ask you

these brief questions:

 

Where did you get your betaNGF from ?

How much, what volume or quality,  did you buy ?

How did you go about diluting it for application ?

 

How do you take it exactly ?  i.e. what form of delivery ?

You take it last thing at night, or first thing in the morning ?

 

Thanks for your help

[Izan]

 

 

does your memory continu to improve?

 

 

This is, of course, the big question. Let me answer you this way...

 

So based on that postmortem study of intracranial NGF recipients discussed above, it sounds like new neurons sprout with their axons converging at the point of NGF injection. So if we extend that concept to intranasal betaNGF, it implies that we should get axonal branching first in the olfactory bulbs (which are exposed to air), and subsequently in the olfactory nerve (in the brain). And indeed, my sense of smell is as good now as it ever was while on high daily doses of cacao. In other words, local neurogenesis appears to have worked.

 

Now, here we are, many days post-betaNGF, and I've had a second night of extraordinarily vivid dreams. I'll spare you the rather hilarious details, but I'm left wondering how the brain is able to synthesize all of this rich content -- people's faces, skyscraper architecture, luxury dining experiences, other people's actions, etc. -- with no apparent effort. I really don't know where all this is coming from, frankly. What I do know from piles of existing research is that the evolutionary purpose of dreams is to facilitate refinement of brain function as applies to plausible modes of environmental interaction. Granted, I'm not likely to encounter a floating train or a tsunami any time soon, but all manner of physical, social, and emotional interactions in the MITS dream intimately reflect everyday reality and therefore serve as good practice for everyday cognitive function. In other words, dreams facilitate the neurological retraining required for clincally significant cognitive improvement. Will the retraining manifest as such? I don't know yet.

 

Topographically, the effects have flowed from the olfactory nerve to wherever this "dream center" is located. Based on studies of temporal lobe epilepsy, I would imagine that most of it takes place there, in the temporal lobes. So it sort of sounds like the neurological impacts of NGF flowed outward from the olfactory nerves and into the temporal lobes, either by NGF migration itself (which we know occurs) or more likely by domino effects of neurogenesis elsewhere. (I really mean NGF. As I understand it, betaNGF should convert to NGF rapidly upon introduction to the CNS.)

 

I do not at this point think that I've hit the hippocampus hard enough to manifest in solid memory gains, however. I'm currently using LLLT directly aimed through the eyes in an attempt to do exactly that. I started doing so shortly before the first vivid dream, so perhaps this was the reason, but I doubt it because I don't recall such reports. If I notice any further improvements I'll report them, although I don't expect much more from such a small NGF dose. Granted, I'm doing so much therapy that it's hard to say what, in fact, is responsible. Caloric restriction is no doubt a huge factor, as well.

 

What I have noticed is that I seem to more alert and responsive, despite having much the same memory performance as when I first took betaNGF.

 

 

analysis in such great detail, thank you very much!

[playground]

 

 

does your memory continu to improve?

 

 

This is, of course, the big question. Let me answer you this way...

 

So based on that postmortem study of intracranial NGF recipients discussed above, it sounds like new neurons sprout with their axons converging at the point of NGF injection. So if we extend that concept to intranasal betaNGF, it implies that we should get axonal branching first in the olfactory bulbs (which are exposed to air), and subsequently in the olfactory nerve (in the brain). And indeed, my sense of smell is as good now as it ever was while on high daily doses of cacao. In other words, local neurogenesis appears to have worked.

 

Now, here we are, many days post-betaNGF, and I've had a second night of extraordinarily vivid dreams. I'll spare you the rather hilarious details, but I'm left wondering how the brain is able to synthesize all of this rich content -- people's faces, skyscraper architecture, luxury dining experiences, other people's actions, etc. -- with no apparent effort. I really don't know where all this is coming from, frankly. What I do know from piles of existing research is that the evolutionary purpose of dreams is to facilitate refinement of brain function as applies to plausible modes of environmental interaction. Granted, I'm not likely to encounter a floating train or a tsunami any time soon, but all manner of physical, social, and emotional interactions in the MITS dream intimately reflect everyday reality and therefore serve as good practice for everyday cognitive function. In other words, dreams facilitate the neurological retraining required for clincally significant cognitive improvement. Will the retraining manifest as such? I don't know yet.

 

Topographically, the effects have flowed from the olfactory nerve to wherever this "dream center" is located. Based on studies of temporal lobe epilepsy, I would imagine that most of it takes place there, in the temporal lobes. So it sort of sounds like the neurological impacts of NGF flowed outward from the olfactory nerves and into the temporal lobes, either by NGF migration itself (which we know occurs) or more likely by domino effects of neurogenesis elsewhere. (I really mean NGF. As I understand it, betaNGF should convert to NGF rapidly upon introduction to the CNS.)

 

I do not at this point think that I've hit the hippocampus hard enough to manifest in solid memory gains, however. I'm currently using LLLT directly aimed through the eyes in an attempt to do exactly that. I started doing so shortly before the first vivid dream, so perhaps this was the reason, but I doubt it because I don't recall such reports. If I notice any further improvements I'll report them, although I don't expect much more from such a small NGF dose. Granted, I'm doing so much therapy that it's hard to say what, in fact, is responsible. Caloric restriction is no doubt a huge factor, as well.

 

What I have noticed is that I seem to more alert and responsive, despite having much the same memory performance as when I first took betaNGF.

 

 

Hi RG,

 

I have a question.  

Do you think that your 'consciousness' has become more lucid since taking the NGF ?

What do i mean ? 

I mean... your moment to moment experience of yourself, of your senses, of the world around you

.... is that more lucid than it was before ?

Or... is it not possible for you to say one way or the other ?

 

[ceridwen]

I wonder what a combination of NGF and NSI-189 would be like

[resveratrol_guy]

Hi RG,

 

I have a question.  

Do you think that your 'consciousness' has become more lucid since taking the NGF ?

What do i mean ? 

I mean... your moment to moment experience of yourself, of your senses, of the world around you

.... is that more lucid than it was before ?

Or... is it not possible for you to say one way or the other ?

 

Hi Playground, good question. Lucidity or environmental cognizance or whatever you wish to call it has sharpened noticeably since my first NGF dose. I would say that this occurred mostly after the vivid dreams, as opposed to prior to that. So perhaps the dreams were neurological training -- a sort of practice run through simulated environments. In particular, I felt more aware today than in a long time.

Perhaps this recent alertness relates to the betaNGF dose that I took last night (10 (not 100 as previously) drops per nostril, held in place inverted for 1 minute, taken from 100 ug of betaNGF dissolved in 22 mL of saline). In other words, I increased the concentration 5X and began dosing again as of last night. For the record, I couldn't sleep as a result of constant bombardament by visual memories and synthetic visualizations. (Carelessly sipping half a cup of coffee yesterday surely didn't help.) So perhaps I should try morning doses instead.

But allow me to describe the more acute effects of last night's dose. It turns out that I took it more than an hour before bed, so I was rather startled by the uptick in visual memory, which occurred in the shower, roughly half an hour after dosing and before taking my niacinamide, methylcobalamin, and melatonin for the night. I could suddenly see myself going about the day's chores, in very sharp clarity; this was episodic visual recall, as opposed to lucid dreaming. The actual transition from "normal TV" to "high definition TV" happens in perhaps 10 seconds or less, from when I first detect it coming on. I have a vague sense that the "coming on" period consists of more frequent visualization episodes in "normal TV", for a few minutes prior to the transition. It's as though some signal suddenly reaches a threshold, whereupon the whole visual cortex throttles up. Why would this occur in response to betaNGF? I have no clue.

Granted, I'm taking so many supplements, coupled with LLLT and betaNGF. So it's possible that my improvement in awareness, or indeed these visual effects, are due to something else.

So, for that matter, positiveeddy, can you help us narrow this down? Can you provide more details regarding your experience, good and bad?
 

[resveratrol_guy]

Here's the salvaged GCSF video requested by Playground. Sorry this took so long.

 

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 11 September 2015 - 04:54 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

And finally, I have been sitting on this for a while, debating whether releasing it would be responsible. I think publication is the right thing to do in this case, but I'm open to other viewpoints on this.

 

 

[plumper76]

What about using a 2 ml syringe since the sugars added more volume? I'm saying still using a ml of saline you would draw back from the NGF a little over a ml so as to not waste any NGF.

[playground]

Here's the salvaged GCSF video requested by Playground. Sorry this took so long.

 

 

thank you :-)

And finally, I have been sitting on this for a while, debating whether releasing it would be responsible. I think publication is the right thing to do in this case, but I'm open to other viewpoints on this.

 

 

Really excellent presentation. RG :-)

[resveratrol_guy]

What about using a 2 ml syringe since the sugars added more volume? I'm saying still using a ml of saline you would draw back from the NGF a little over a ml so as to not waste any NGF.

 

You could do this, but it would be a bit difficult because of the added fluid pressure injeted into the vial. You would probably have to withdraw some air before injecting the second mL of saline. At the end of the day, I don't think it would add much to the amount of betaNGF that you could actually withdraw. I tried to withdraw as close to 100% as possible by pulling the needle partway out of the rubber top so as to suck out that last little drop in the neck of the vial.

 

Playground, I've messaged positiveeddy and asked him to share his good and bad experiences, if he's able to offer any further feedback. We could really use some other experience reports, obviously.

 

For my part, I've barely slept the past 2 nights on account of a brain that refuses to shut up. Hopefully this will abate. While I had dreams last night, they were of markedly inferior quality to the vivid experiences above.
 

[Metagene]

Forgive me if this was already posted:

[The development of a pharmacologically active low-molecular mimetic of the nerve growth factor].

Authors present an overview of theirs author's works on the design of low-molecular mimetic of the nerve growth factor and studies of mechanisms of action and pharmacological properties of the compound. The original working hypothesis, underlying the design of the compound, posited that different neurotrophin hairpin loops could activate different signaling cascades by interaction with the receptor and so be responsible for different effects. The mimetic bis(N-succinyl-L-glutamyl-L-lysine)hexametylendiamide (GK-2), that was designed on the basis of NGF loop 4 β-turn sequence, activated TrkA and PI3K/Akt, but not MAPK/Erk. GK-2 showed neuroprotective activity in concentrations up to 10-9М against H2O2 or glutamate or MPTP-induced neurotoxicity in РС12, НТ22 cells and primary rat hippocampal neurons. At that, GK-2 has no differentiating activity. In in vivo experiments, GK-2 exhibited significant anti-ischemic, anti-parkinsonic effect, reversed impaired cognitive functions in models of Alzheimer's disease in doses 0.01 - 5 mg/kg intraperitoneally and 5-10 mg/kg orally, but does not induce side effects accompanying the full-length neurotrophin treatment, which are hyperalgesia and weight loss. It was shown that GK-2 was a low-toxicity compound (LD50=700 mg/kg, intraperitoneally, mice) and capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier. The agent GK-2 is promising for development as a neuroprotective agent and is currently in preclinical studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....&from=cognitive

Edited by Metagene, 12 September 2015 - 01:41 PM.

[playground]

Playground, I've messaged positiveeddy and asked him to share his good and bad experiences, if he's able to offer any further feedback. We could really use some other experience reports, obviously.

 

For my part, I've barely slept the past 2 nights on account of a brain that refuses to shut up. Hopefully this will abate. While I had dreams last night, they were of markedly inferior quality to the vivid experiences above.
 

 

 

Hi RG,

 

I've been thinking a lot about your recent posts with beta-NGF.

 

This is _potentially_ very close to the fruition of the Rita Levi-Montalchini Project 

(ie. NGF eye-drops and still going strong cognitively at 100+ years old)

This has been a long standing interest of mine.  So i'm very excited about this.

 

Here's my take on this so far.

 

We know that beta-NGF is psycho-active.

There can be no doubt about this thanks to your recent reports.

 

Therefore we know:

(a) that beta-NGF is being successfully delivered to the brain.

(b) that beta-NGF is triggering receptors in the brain

 

There is no shortage of academic evidence suggesting that beta-NGF causes neurogenesis

(as a simple example, see here:  http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/26330843 )

 

It seems to me that, in terms of the Rita Project, generic Neurogenesis is key. 

The ability to generically create entirely new neurons means almost any kind of damage

can be repaired (within reason).   Any neuronal loss from the wear and tear of aging

( eg: alcohol consumption; viral infection; physical injury; exposure to toxins etc)

can all be repaired in a brain that exhibits generic neurogenesis. 

That's a recipe for Rita-esque cognitive functioning in advanced old age.

 

Notice the qualifying word 'generic' here. 

Maybe beta-NGF acts in a neurotrophic fashion for neuron types X & Y, but not types A & B.

(Note: The same argument can be made for NGF itself)

 

The big question is, is this beta-NGF delivering enhanced plasticity? i.e. better learning potential.   

Have you been doing your brain trainers recently ? 

Is there any evidence of you performing better

on those exercises at which you've plateaued ?

Do you had any experiences that might suggest enhanced learning capacity?

Please let me know.. I'd be very interested to read your answers.

 

----

 

I would expect that the psycho-active properties of the beta-NGF would

both (a) decline over time (b) change qualitatively over time.... for the following reasons:

 

First, beta-NGF will have a half life (because all drugs have a half life)

I don't know what that half life is however (perhaps you do ?)

So we can expect a natural degradation of the main effect.

 

Second, we can (probably) expect that some of the metabolites of beta-NGF

will also have neurological activity, perhaps very different neurologic activity to

that of beta-NGF and perhaps agonistic for X neurons and antagonist for Y neurons.

 

Third, beta-NGF is a precursor for NGF, the profile of agonistic and antagonistic

actions for these drugs might be different (probably is different)

 

Fourth.  The beta-NGF and/or NGF, probably initiate a process that might take

days or weeks to complete.  Similar to the creation of new bodily tissues in wound healing.

Imagine you cut your finger. Your bodily starts a process of creating new tissues to replace

the old tissue damaged by the knife.  The new tissue has to be integrated into it's

immediate community of cells, provided with a supply of blood etc. etc.

Maybe it's like that with neurogenesis too.  Maybe you can expect the effects to

be noticable for days or weeks after the initial application.

 

So for these reasons i would expect that your subjective experience of the beta-NGF

will gradually fade away and will change qualitatively.

 

Best wishes

 

playground

Edited by playground, 12 September 2015 - 03:49 PM.

[playground]

 

For my part, I've barely slept the past 2 nights on account of a brain that refuses to shut up. Hopefully this will abate. While I had dreams last night, they were of markedly inferior quality to the vivid experiences above.

 

Hi RG,

 

From what you say, it sounds like one (or more) of the metabolites of beta-NGF

is a CNS stimulant. 

 

What kind brain stimulation are you experiencing ?

Is this raw cognitive stuff ? 

Or is this emotional stuff (worries, antipathies, jealousies etc) ?

Is this more like watching TV ...  visual stuff ?

Or something else entirely ?

 

I presume it's a concern to you that you haven't had much sleep over the last few nights. 

And you must be really tired by now.    I have some suggestions: 

 

(1) I might recommend (1mg or 3mg) melatonin + (500mg) niacinamide (vitamin B3)

taken last thing at night before you go to bed... this combination has worked

wonders for me in the past... perhaps it will work for you too.

[EDIT - my apologies, i see from the above that you're already taking this combo]

 

(2) I think it's a common experience that people sleep much better after exercising.

Perhaps you could walk for a few hours, or run for 30 to 60 minutes.  Perhaps that

would help you sleep better.

 

(3) One of the preparatory exercises for learning meditation is to focus your attention

on how your body feels. It's called a 'body scan' you start from your toes, then your feet, 

ankles, calves, knees, thighs etc all the way up your body to your scalp and finally your face. 

You focus on what you can feel, the returned sensations from your skin, the texture of

clothing, the weight of your body etc. You should take 10 to 20 minutes on this journey

from toes to face. The usual advice is don't do this exercise laying down... do it sat upright

... because if you do it laying, you'll probably fall asleep. 

So.... I recommend you do it laying down.

 

Best wishes  :-)

 

Playground

Edited by playground, 12 September 2015 - 03:40 PM.

[ceridwen]

I agree Playground when I took Hydergine which is a precursor of NGF I found that it plateaued after a time makes me wonder if NGF ought to be cycled. I am seriously thinking of taking NGF again now too. I wish I had never stopped taking it maybe I would have had some cognitive reserve if I had kept on taking it.

[ceridwen]

Months to complete. It takes about 6 months to grow new neurons

[Irishdude]

Did Rita cycle it? Any notes from her regarding how to use it? I'm thinking of purchasing B-NGF if I can't get my hands on straight NGF. 

 

I remember reading Rita used to dose through her eye balls. May I ask why you arent doing the same?

Also, did anyone on here use NGF for an extended period of time? I can't be arsed reading the whole thread.

 

[resveratrol_guy]

Just checking in. I will answer all your points above in the next few days. I'm exhausted from several nights of poor sleep. Something has been keeping the brain chatter cranked way up. So as a precaution, I switched to morning betaNGF yesterday, from night. I did sleep a bit better last night, but I wouldn't want to answer any serious questions in my current state. I'll return after the batteries recharge.

 

Meanwhile can anyone find positiveeddy? I hope he's OK.

 

[playground]

Hi,

 

I think it's time to learn more about NGF and the relationship between beta-NGF and NGF.

And to think this through properly.

 

From wikipedia:  source:  https://en.wikipedia...e_growth_factor

 

Quote:

          Structure

NGF is initially in a 7S, 130 kDa complex of 3 proteins - Alpha-NGF, Beta-NGF, and Gamma-NGF (2:1:2 ratio) when expressed. This form of NGF is also referred to as proNGF (NGF precursor). The gamma subunit of this complex acts as a serine protease, and cleaves the N-terminal of the beta subunit, thereby activating the protein into functional NGF.

 

The term "Nerve Growth Factor" usually refers to the 2.5S, 26 kDa beta subunit of the protein. The beta subunit is the only component of the 7S NGF complex that is biologically active (i.e. acting as signaling molecules).

 

 

I find that very interesting.  If this is correct, it suggest that the NGF of 130 K daltons,

that we've been discussing for all these months, is actually an inactive precursor.

So the real, 'big' NGF, consists of 3 proteins, alpha, beta and Gamma linked together in a ratio of (2 alphas: 1 beta: 2 gammas)

The only active portion of this arrangement of these 3 proteins, is the beta element.

 

The beta-NGF element has a weight of 26 K daltons.

Note:  The beta-NGF available from RG's source, is 13.2 K daltons.

This is ringing alarm bells for me. 

The available 'beta-NGF' .... doesn't look like it's the _real_ beta-NGF that the academic studies are referring to.

It seems to me that... who ever is supplying this chemical is mislabelling this chemical as beta-NGF  (accidentally, or knowingly)

 

Why might this be so ? 

They're offering this stuff for sale, right ?  So, they want your money.

Probably, this protein isn't going to sell very well if they call it

precursor-beta-NGF or beta-NGF-intermediate-6.   (Speculation on my part)

 

Have these people tried to create the full beta-NGF using

recombinant methods but failed to get the full molecule ?   MAYBE

Have these people managed to create a beta-NGF intermediate ?     MAYBE

Is this intermediate _really_ a beta-NGF precursor ?   DONT KNOW

Does this intermediate trigger the same receptors ?   DONT KNOW.

Does it have the same biological effect as beta-NGF ?   DONT KNOW

Will this intermediate _really_ be transformed into the full beta-NGF in vivo ?   DONT KNOW

 

Caution here:

Tiny changes in the structure of biologically active compounds can have massively different effects.

Compare the long term effects of human estrogen and horse estrogen in women.

(Horse estrogen was given to women for decades in contraceptive pills)

The two estrogens are _almost_ identical. But horse estrogen is, infact, toxic for women over a

period of years.. and has resulted in enormous suffering.

Hence the creation of the 'Bio-Identical Hormones Movement'.

 

My conclusion is that we need to tread carefully.

 

 

 

Edited by playground, 15 September 2015 - 11:46 AM.

[playground]

Hey RG,

 

I found this very interesting.  The relationship between NGF and romantic love.

From wikipedia:   source:  https://en.wikipedia...e_growth_factor

 

Romantic love

Recent studies found that the concentration of NGF in the blood plasma is significantly higher in individuals that have been in a romantic relationship with another person for less than 12 months [227 (14) pg/ml], than those who are either not in a romantic relationship [149 (12) pg/ml] or have been in one for more than 12 months [123 (10) pg/ml].^[7]

NGF can indirectly stimulate the expression of ACTH (Adrenocorticotrophic Hormone) in the HPA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal) Axis by increasing Vasopressin secretion. ACTH binds to the MC₂ Receptor in the Zona fasciculata of the adrenal cortex, and stimulates the secretion of the stress hormone cortisol.^[8] This rapid increase in cortisol levels in the blood plasma can induce feelings of euphoria, which may explain the initial "rush" of falling in love.^[9] Studies show that ACTH can in turn stimulate NGF secretion in both the cerebral cortex and the hypothalamus. It is possible that this NGF-ACTH interaction may form a recursive cycle, maintaining the "feeling of love" for a certain length of time. And since NGF is a modulator of nerve plasticity, neurogenesis, and axonal outgrowth, permanent memories associating the "loved one" with the "feeling of love" may be formed during the course of the cycle. However, it has been demonstrated by cortisol, which its secretion is directly upregulated by ACTH, shows inhibitory effects over NGF expression in the cerebral cortex.^[10] This may be the cause of the eventual deterioration of NGF levels after 12 months. It may also explain why plasma NGF levels were significantly lower in individuals who have maintained a long-lasting romantic relationship beyond 12 months, than those who were't in a romantic relationship at all.

 

So, if you want to maximise your NGF levels.  Fall in love with a new man/woman every year.

 

Or... alternatively,... i wonder if you could inject some of that initial enthusiasm back into your

long term relationships by dosing with NGF ?  

 

So...  RG... do you have a girlfriend ? 

How long have you been seeing her ? 

How's it going at the moment ? ;-)

 

Edited by playground, 15 September 2015 - 11:45 AM.

[ceridwen]

Over expressing an enzyme that removes cholesterol from the brain completely corrects Tau in mice.
Sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/09/150914114643.htm
This is a bit off topic but I thought it was important. Removes obstacles to brain growth. Unfortunately there's a long way to go before people can do that

[tunt01]

Over expressing an enzyme that removes cholesterol from the brain completely corrects Tau in mice.
Sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/09/150914114643.htm
This is a bit off topic but I thought it was important. Removes obstacles to brain growth. Unfortunately there's a long way to go before people can do that

 

A lot of data suggests that Alzheimer's is a disease of cholesterol efflux.  HDL appears to be highly protective.