613 replies to this topic

[playground]

Hi RG,

 

my reply in red text below.

I think playground's method of transferring to a dropper bottle is a good idea. I probably didn't explain it in the video, but with the saline bottle, I was dripping into my nose from a few millimeters away, so I never did have it in contact with my nostril. But droppers are still more accurate, so I agree with that modification. Again, sterilization is paramount.

 

I also agree that 1 ug intranasal won't do anything. However, it might do something if delivered sublingually, where absorption efficiency would be much higher after a few minutes. I haven't tried anything sublingual yet, but it's on my list.

 

As I mentioned in my thread, I've stopped all NGF activators for several weeks now, in order to avoid neuroregeneration in my mouth and nose, where I least want it while healing from jaw surgery. I plan to resume in January.

 

I hope you make a speedy recovery.

 

As to Sudoku, 60 days of history is probably a good plateau. It's an excellent test because it provides not only a measurement of memory and executive function, but actively stimulates new neurons to integrate themselves into useful networks. We need to remember, in all this, that new neurons don't translate to better memory or intelligence unless they're forced to work for a living.

 

Yes, I'm sure that's correct.

 

One update... it only recently occurred to me that since my experiments in this thread, I have never again experienced parosmia, hyposmia, or anosmia. (Parosmia is the scariest of these. Imagine squirting out some liquid lemon soap that you've used for years, but smelling burning rubber instead. It's a jolting wakeup call that you have a serious neurological problem. I've been there.)

 

Did all smells smell different or just lemony smells ?

And is your sense of smell back to normal now ?

 

At some point, perhaps documented in the foregoing pages, I experienced my last episode, and that was it. This, despite having periodic attacks on and off since being infected by nasal bacteria in 10/2013. The episodes continued long after the infection was cured. I don't think it's a huge stretch to imagine that betaNGF and/or precursors like lion's mane or ashitaba chalcone regrew my olfactory network.

 

Seems entirely reasonable to me that NGF (and NGF promoters) helped mend those issues.

Perhaps NGF should be used for conditions like narcolepsy.

And, off the top of my head i wonder if..... putting NGF in your ear .... might fix tinnitus....

... or.... whether NGF in the ear might halt or reverse progressive deafness.

 

After such a long time without a lasting cure, bouncing back and forth between high and low function, the timing is rather coincidental.

 

Finally, readers here will no doubt want to have a look at the breakthrough research brought to us by mag1 regarding copper-2 exposure and AD risk. Bottom line: it's time to find a copper-free vitamin pill (e.g. LEF 2-per-day or others) and filter your way out of risks associated with copper plumbing. The discussion starts here on 12/12/2015.

 

This is interesting.  I seem to remember that, in the UK, 50 years ago, they switched

from lead piping to copper piping because of the newly discovered risks with lead. 

I wonder, what should domestic pipes be made of ? 

 

regs

 

playground
 

[playground]

hi Stefan,

 

thanks your helpful post

.. my reply in red below

 

There has been some research with the eye drops. They seem safe and interesting results:

 

Safety and Pharmacokinetics of Escalating Doses of Human Recombinant Nerve Growth Factor Eye Drops in a Double-Masked, Randomized Clinical Trial

http://link.springer...0259-013-0079-5

 

We describe the effects of nerve growth factor eye drop treatment in a 94 years old female with ARMD, whose visual acuity was progressively worsening in spite of previous surgical and medical treatments. NGF eye drops improved visual acuity and electrofunctional parameters as early as 3 months after initiation of treatment. These results are in line with previous reports on a neuroprotective effect of NGF on retinal cells and on NGF eye drops bioavailability in the retina and optic nerve. No side effects were observed after five years of follow-up, suggesting that topical NGF treatment may be a safe and effective therapy for ARMD.

http://www.scielosp....ipt=sci_arttext

 

Experimental and clinical evidence of neuroprotection by nerve growth factor eye drops: Implications for glaucoma

http://www.pnas.org/...6/32/13469.full

 

This whole issue of ocular delivery of NGF has been thoroughly explored in the posts of this thread.

It was resveratrol-guy who originally introduced the research about nasal delivery of NGF being

superior (more efficient) than ocular delivery.  

There are plenty of papers on this... For example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19221427

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2779569/

http://www.jstor.org...an_tab_contents

 

 

DHEA an alternative?

http://www.hindawi.c...ps/2013/506191/

The results showed that NGF and BDNF are overproduced after DHEA treatment but there is not any overexpression for NT-3 and NT-4. Also DHEA increased neurite extension and neural cell proliferation significantly. Overall, DHEA might induce NGF and BDNF neurotrophins overproduction in cortical neurons which promotes neural cell protection, survival, and proliferation.

 

This idea that DHEA causes an increase in NGF and BDNF is very interesting.

I'd not encountered this idea before.  Thanks for posting this.

Incidentally, you might check out a similar chemical  pregnenalone.

Pregnenalone is a neurosteriod that causes increases in NGF.

And you can buy supplements of DHEA & Pregnenalone combinations.

Here's an overview paper:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/26433186

 

regs

 

playground
 

[stefan_001]

Hello Playground, thanks for the reply I am keeping the neuronsteroid options on ice for a while. It would have been interesting to see a log of the Italian lady with dose amounts apparently she found a good level. While for short term use I believe it is save even in higher doses but for long term continuous that may be different. Any views on that?
Stefan

[playground]

Hello Playground, thanks for the reply I am keeping the neuronsteroid options on ice for a while. It would have been interesting to see a log of the Italian lady with dose amounts apparently she found a good level. While for short term use I believe it is save even in higher doses but for long term continuous that may be different. Any views on that?
Stefan

 

Hi Stefan,

 

First of all... we took great pains to hunt down Rita Levi-Montalchini's biography (written in Italian).  We recruited the help of Italian speakers to find the biography and do a search through it looking for 'NGF', 'dosage', 'eye', etc. (these and other search terms translated into italian, naturally).  Alas ... her biography was written years before she went on the eye-drops.  We eventually learned that she was about 99 years old when she started on the eye drops, hence the eye drops were NOT responsible for her longevity or her apparent intelligence or coherence in advanced old age.

 

We never found the answers to two key questions:

1.  Was she using human recombinant NGF or maurine NGF ?  (maurine = mouse).

2.  What dosage was she taking ? 

 

yes.. I have a view on long term and short term dosing of endogenous chemicals.

 

To explain, I will talk about testosterone levels in men.

The following numbers are all fictitious, and are provided only for illustration.

 

Let's take 100 men aged 15 and measure their free-Testosterone levels

Let's take 100 more men aged 18... and measure their free-testosterone levels.

Let's repeat this process for men aged 21, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50

 

What we find is that free-Testosterone levels rise sharply to a peak at 140 units

(at ages 18 and 21) and then levels decay at a rate of X% per year such that

at age 30 the average level is 110 units, at age 40 it's 90 units, at age 50 it's 80 units  etc.

 

So there's a natural (average) band of Testosterone levels (140 to 80 units).

 

my view is..... for supplementation at any age, don't exceed the natural high point: 140 units.

 

If your current level of Testosterone is 90 units, then don't supplement with more than 50 units.

 

My suspicion is that, for values above 140 units, endogenous homeostasis

mechanisms will try to lower Testosterone  to a 'normal' level.

 

I suspect similar machinery will operate for NGF and for DHEA/Pregnenalone.

 

This perspective only applies to chemicals that are endogenous.  It wouldn't work

for aspirin or paracetamol, for example, since there's no 'natural' levels of these drugs.

 

In the long run: moderation is the best policy

 

playground

Edited by playground, 29 December 2015 - 05:00 AM.

[stefan_001]

Thanks for the reply. Sounds like a good approach on dosing.

Wrt Rita L-M I started to wonder why then did she begin with eye drops on such late age? I have the suspicion she did it for other reasons than cognition. Probably she tried to improve her eyesight. Here a paper on testing with NGF eye drops for Glaucoma. Rita was one of the authors:
http://www.pnas.org/.../13469.abstract

[playground]

Thanks for the reply. Sounds like a good approach on dosing.

Wrt Rita L-M I started to wonder why then did she begin with eye drops on such late age? I have the suspicion she did it for other reasons than cognition. Probably she tried to improve her eyesight. Here a paper on testing with NGF eye drops for Glaucoma. Rita was one of the authors:
http://www.pnas.org/.../13469.abstract

 

Hi Stefan,

 

You're right. She was losing her eye sight (and hearing) during her latter years.

And, as i understand it, she was explicitly using the NGF to treat her retinal issues.

 

The Institute she founded is in the business of profiting from the NGF work Rita

began.  In retrospect, i suspect members of her institute (eg, the author list of the

paper you quote above) have deliberately given the world the impression that

Rita's longevity and cognitive clarity in old age are somehow *caused by* her

use of NGF.   In doing so, they excite interest in a chemical they hope to make

lots of money from in the future.   I strongly suspect, it's yet more mass media lies.

 

Rita was ~99 when she started using the NGF.  To reach 99 and still have

all your marbles.... means... you've lead a very healthy life and/or you've inherited

some excellent longevity genes.  To have reached 99 without dosing NGF means

NGF is not the cause of your longevity.

 

Turning to the paper you cite.

It seems that in glaucoma intra ocular pressure destroys the retinal nerves.

I seem to remember that smoking/ingesting cannabis lowers this pressure.

And of-course we know that NGF eye drops will help restore retinal cells.

(Great, all we need to do is keep our old people high on space cake & eye drops)

Clearly, that's treating the symptoms and not the cause.

 

What causes this increase in intra ocular pressure ? 

Is this *always* accompanied by increases in blood pressure ?

Is intra ocular pressure independent of increased blood pressure ?

Is this to do with glycotoxins ?

Is this a side effect of diabetes... is diabetes the *real* causal problem ?

Do lifestyle interventions targeted on diabetes also improve glaucoma ?

 

regards

 

playground

[h2o]

For those that have already ordered beta NGF, did you ship it using blue ice (extra $300) or just ambient temperature ($30)?

[Irishdude]

I am homozygous rs6330(T,T).

"rs6330 is a SNP causing a change in an amino acid in the nerve growth factor ([NGF]) gene, and based on this, it is also known as 104C>T or Ala35Val. The more common © allele encodes the alanine (Ala).

A study of 337 (age: 39.2 +/- 14.6 years) unrelated subjects of German descent found a significant (p=0.011) gender-dependent effect of this SNP on anxiety related personality traits. rs6330(C;C) females had higher levels of trait anxiety than (C;T) or (T;T) females, while the opposite effect was seen in males.[PMID 18763222]

"

20% of european descendants are homozygous. I would be curious if this is one of the reasons why I am anxious all my life. Its a long shot I know. Can anyone try to explain how this mutation may cause anxiety, like this study suggested in males?

[playground]

I updated my NGF dosing procedure to be more 'sterile'.

 

I keep two brown dropper bottles, 10ml, small with a rubber teat to the dropper.

One of the brown dropper bottles has a saline-NGF solution (10ml/20ug) and is labelled NGF.

The other bottle contains saline and is labelled saline.

Both bottles are kept in the refrigerator, approx 4 degrees C.

 

When dosing i do this:

=> Take both bottles out of the fridge.

=> Open the saline bottle first and eliminate any saline in the dropper by squeezing teat and shaking.

=> Open the NGF bottle, keeping it's dropper in my left hand, i take a dose from the bottle using the dropper from the saline bottle.

=> Restore the NGF bottle dropper with your left hand and return it to the fridge.

=> Lay down somewhere and empty the NGF solution in the dropper into which ever nostril feels the clearest

=> Turn onto your left or right side, do not use a pillow or cushion, allow your head to tip down to the floor.

=> Take a note of the time .... wait 5 minutes before getting up... (give the water time to evaporate / be absorbed)

=> 5 minutes later, go to the kitchen and boil the kettle (to sterilise the saline bottle & dropper)

=> add a 1/2 teaspoon of salt to a cup, also add the (emptied) saline bottle and dropper

=> add boiling water to the contents of the cup, ensure the saline bottle is filled up and that the dropper is submerged.

=> 15 minutes later return to the cup and carefully add the dropper to the bottle... tighten and return to the fridge.

 

 

I am on day 12 of my NGF dosing schedule.

I'm taking between 1ug and 2ug per day (averaging about 1.5ug per day)

 

=> I'm not experiencing anything like nasal sensitivity... and definitely nothing like pain.

=> When i lay down to take my NGF... and wait there for 5 minutes... i often feel like i could sleep.

=> I believe NGF improves my sleeping.

     1.   I sleep longer, by an hour or so... but maybe that's because i've spent xmas & new year with my mum

     2.   I dream more.  I vaguely wake up and my head is somehow slightly still in dream land.  And i can often remember

           the plot or scenes or feelings from my dream when i awake.  These are regular dreams, not like lucid dreams.

           This morning i dreamed i could fly, and turn and decelerate by somehow changing the angle of my hands.

           This was very enjoyable, i wanted to go back to sleep so i could do it some more.... but it didn't work.

     3.   Perhaps NGF should be considered by those wishing to train themselves as lucid dreamers.  I believe

           NGF makes me dream more.

=>   NGF is supposed to have anti-anxiolytic / anti-depressant properties.

       The problem is, i'm not normally anxious or depressed, i normally feel good or content. 

       So i can not comment on this property of NGF.

=>   There has been, in the last 2 days, a modest improvement in my Sudoku scores. It's probably a flash in the pan.

 

 

happy new year

 

playground

Edited by playground, 05 January 2016 - 03:28 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Hey all, I just wanted to draw attention to lostfalco's dabblings in intranasal insulin. His thread is an intellectual tour de force on neurological health, so sometimes the treasures can get buried in the posts. While there are some important open questions, it looks promising and is available for cheap over-the-counter at WalMart and other retailers.

 

One other thing: if you haven't checked out the nilotinib group buy thread, please do so. It seems that this drug may influence dementia generally, even though it was designed to treat cancer and recently succeeded in improving motor function in late stage Parkinson's. It's not without its risks, however, which is made clear in the thread.

 

@ playground, please update us on your NGF status. Not that I expect anything, but a report would be nice, as it's been a while.

 

Personally I'm drinking 20-40 mL/d of ashitaba chalcone for a while to see what happens, as compared to intranasal betaNGF...

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 22 January 2016 - 01:41 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

For those who are interested, I've started a group by thread for ashitaba liquid chalcone.

[playground]

Hey all, I just wanted to draw attention to lostfalco's dabblings in intranasal insulin. His thread is an intellectual tour de force on neurological health, so sometimes the treasures can get buried in the posts. While there are some important open questions, it looks promising and is available for cheap over-the-counter at WalMart and other retailers.

 

One other thing: if you haven't checked out the nilotinib group buy thread, please do so. It seems that this drug may influence dementia generally, even though it was designed to treat cancer and recently succeeded in improving motor function in late stage Parkinson's. It's not without its risks, however, which is made clear in the thread.

 

@ playground, please update us on your NGF status. Not that I expect anything, but a report would be nice, as it's been a while.

 

Personally I'm drinking 20-40 mL/d of ashitaba chalcone for a while to see what happens, as compared to intranasal betaNGF...

 

Hi RG,

 

not much to report really.

I took 20 ug of beta-NGF over about 15 days.

I took the last dose around 3rd of Jan. 

So that's about 4 weeks ago.

 

I have been sleeping longer.

It was most evident at the time,

i seemed to be sleeping and extra hour per night.

(long sluggish sleep and it somehow takes an hour to get out of bed,

 ...  this reminds me strongly of being a teenager)

And perhaps it's unrelated, but i seem to remember being lazy like

a teenager during the last few days too.... maybe it's related to getting

all that sleep.

 

I specifically remember noticing that my dreams were more vivid.

They seemed more intense, more somehow tangible,

but they weren't 'lucid dreams' (in the technical sense)

And i remembered my dreams more readily when i woke up.

 

It's been 4 weeks and my dreams are back to ghostly and faint again.

I don't really remember them in the mornings (at the moment)

 

I'm still sleeping well.

My sudoku skills are improving... i.e. I feel that my ability to see the patterns

that reveal that a number is missing from this square or that square,  is improving.

However, i can't demonstrate this by showing you my reduced sudoku times,

because i'm now doing harder sudoku puzzles from a different source.

 

I will be resuming my beta-NGF dosing in the next few days.

I might double the dosage. Go from 1-1.5 ug to 2-3 ug.

 

I'll let you know how this goes.

 

playground.
 

[playground]

For those who are interested, I've started a group by thread for ashitaba liquid chalcone.

 

Hi RG,

What benefits are you getting from ashitaba,  RG ?

What effects is it having on you ?

 

How is the effect of ashitaba compared to beta-NGF ?

 

Be very interesting to hear your thoughts

[resveratrol_guy]

Hi RG,

 

not much to report really.

I took 20 ug of beta-NGF over about 15 days.

I took the last dose around 3rd of Jan. 

So that's about 4 weeks ago.

 

I have been sleeping longer.

It was most evident at the time,

i seemed to be sleeping and extra hour per night.

(long sluggish sleep and it somehow takes an hour to get out of bed,

 ...  this reminds me strongly of being a teenager)

And perhaps it's unrelated, but i seem to remember being lazy like

a teenager during the last few days too.... maybe it's related to getting

all that sleep.

 

I specifically remember noticing that my dreams were more vivid.

They seemed more intense, more somehow tangible,

but they weren't 'lucid dreams' (in the technical sense)

And i remembered my dreams more readily when i woke up.

 

It's been 4 weeks and my dreams are back to ghostly and faint again.

I don't really remember them in the mornings (at the moment)

 

I'm still sleeping well.

My sudoku skills are improving... i.e. I feel that my ability to see the patterns

that reveal that a number is missing from this square or that square,  is improving.

However, i can't demonstrate this by showing you my reduced sudoku times,

because i'm now doing harder sudoku puzzles from a different source.

 

I will be resuming my beta-NGF dosing in the next few days.

I might double the dosage. Go from 1-1.5 ug to 2-3 ug.

 

I'll let you know how this goes.

 

playground.

 

Thanks for the update. The effects on sleep duration, sleep quality, and dream vividness have been confirmed in 2 or 3 subjects here, at this point. Indeed, I don't recall any reports of negative effects in this vein. It's interesting how this coincides closely with the qualitative reports of Liz Parrish, the BioViva CEO who took TERT gene therapy. TERT is supposed to confer broad tissue rejuvenation, including in the brain, if in fact animal results translate to humans. (I suspect that they do, given the very primitive nature of TERT.) Liz says she's sleeping longer and with higher quality than prior to the therapy. On the other hand, we know that neurological aging is associated with sleep disruption. So in the aggregate, this all suggests that NGF is rejuvenating the brain on a biochemical level, regardless of the question of whether or not it's improving other areas of cognition. If nothing else, it might be supporting the growth of neurons, which steals resources that might otherwise be used to produce senile plaque.
 

I'm surprised that you had a very similar experience to mine with only a microgram per day. That's low. At least, it suggests that we might save money by using less betaNGF for a longer period in our lives.

 

And, as in my case, your dream quality waned in the weeks since dosing cessation.

 

It seems to me that our best defense against placebo in this case is the clock next to the bed: it's difficult to sleep longer because one is impressed by betaNGF and therefore resolves not to wake up. I'm not saying that's impossible, but it would require concerted effort as opposed to mere expectation.

 

As to ashitaba chalcone, the worst effect has been some degree of stomach upset. Trust me, do not mix it with pterostilbene! As to effects, apart from the photographic evidence I provided of an age spot that dried up and died, I have noticed almost precisely the same effects as betaNGF. However, it took them almost a month to manifest at roughly 20 mL/d. I can't speculate as to why. I had pretty much given up and thought that I would just take it as a cancer suppressor, when the dreams suddenly escalated in vividness to the same apex as the MITS dream. Combined with other supplements (shiitake-maitake extract, choline and inositol, Longvida, honokiol, methylcobalamin, nigella sativa, c60oo, NR, and meditation with isochronic tones), the results are basically high def TV in your head. It's wild!

 

Is this down to ashitaba chalcone? I don't honestly know. On the one hand, the lab results are highly supportive of the hypothesis that it is, indeed, real chalcone. And we have various studies I've linked to in the past, showing a sharp uptick in NGF in the brain following oral administration. On the other hand, I just cured my sleep apnea via surgery, and started intermittant fasting a few weeks ago. So I'm not yet convinced that this, or in fact the age spot reversal, has anything to do with ashitaba. I'm suffering from "N=1" syndrome.

[resveratrol_guy]

I must say, something is going on up there. I never thought that, at this stage of my life, my mental visualization capability would be at its zenith, but I'm sure that I've never experienced anything quite like this. (The most vivid mental experience I ever had, before all this NGF experimentation, was when I was 25. It frightened me so much that I called the hospital because I thought I might be having a seizure of some sort. But it was not even close to what I can "see" now.) Now, this capability is only accessible for an hour or more per day, and seems to depend strongly on how much time has elapsed since ingesting various supplements, but I seem to be able to activate it with some degree of predictability. I wish I could give you a simple answer, like it all being the result of ashitaba, but I know that's not true. It arises from the sum of a set of specific prerequisites, probably including those listed above, any one of which could inhibit it if not present in the right amounts (too little or indeed too much).

There are actually several remarkable aspects to this capability:

1. Resolution. As I said, this is high def TV in your head. Actually, now that I look at my own high def screen, it's more like what Steve Jobs called "retinal resolution". I can't see any pixels, but when objects get too close to me, they actually blur out, as they would if they came too close to my eyes.

2. Nonlingualness. The visualization is a graphical phenomenon. I have only rarely been able to read words. When I look up at street signs, I know they're composed of letters, but I can't usually read them as words, presumably because the lingual part of my brain has shut down. (This might be a clue as to what part of the brain is involved.) Yet, rarely, words do make sense. In point of fact, the other night I happened to realize that I was having a hypervivid dream set in the future, but I was unable to wake myself out of it. I just happened to be stuck in an industrial storage unit with a whiteboard crammed in one corner. So I walked over to it, grabbed a dry-erase pen, and started writing sentences. In this rare case, I was able to read them. When I awoke, I turned on my computer and Googled what I'd written. A few unrelated results came up, indicating to me that the sentences had been generated in my head, as opposed to recalled from memory of a real experience. But, moments later, I awoke again, to discover that I had dreamed about using Google. My computer, my monitor, my desk -- all of it -- it was all fake! (This "nested dreaming" phenomenon echoes my experiece previously detailed, which occurred while on betaNGF. It's as though I'm forming a mind within my mind.) Unfortunately, I didn't think to actually use Google, and have since forgotten the exact wording.

3. Unexpectedness. Stuff just "shows up". I'll find myself hovering in the ocean over a coral reef, then suddenly a schoal of orange fish will dart forth from the corals below, only to dive out of site when a shark suddenly arrives. Something in my brain is surely causing this, but it's not my conscious desire. Similarly, when one of them swims close enough, I can see their scales and sometimes notice small injuries. I couldn't write computer code to simulate that if I had the rest of my life to do it. For that matter, I doubt I could even propose an algorithm to do so, convincingly. So clearly this is natively wired into my brain.

4. Morphability. If I actually want to, I can consciously force events to happen. For example, I made a miniature hurricane appear in my hands so I could watch it evolve, with the cloud bands whirling around a stable eye, which wobbled slightly from side to side under the influence of thermal currents. Then I made a huge tidal wave rise out of the sea and crash into an island, leaving the palm trees swaying violently in the backwash as the sand eroded into the ocean. I have not the slightest clue how my neurons are doing the rendering in such a manner that it looks like reality. Given what I know about how much compute power would be required to simulate it, I'm compelled to believe that Dr. Stuart Hameroff is essentially correct, in that the brain is superficially classical and fundamentally quantum mechanical.

5. Fade-in and fade-out. The visualization capacity waxes and wanes based on the levels of the whatever prerequisites happen to be present. The early and late stages look the same in the sense of lower resolution. Occasionally, the failure mode is different: resolution remains high, but the simulation suddenly halts and blanks out, as though I'm too slow to buffer up enough frames in time to experience them in real time, rather like trying to watch an HD movie on an inadequate broadband connection.

But look, my genes are only 0.1% different than yours. I really doubt that I'm unique in this regard. It's much more likely that I've found a relatively straightforward way to activate it, which apparently involves NGF upregulation among other requirements. Do you folks who take NGF or ashitaba or lion's mane or whatever other NGF stimulant experience the same thing?

And finally, I know I sound like a nutcase. I have no idea why this particular capability has been so enhanced, as opposed to any of the other myriad mental functions. I just wish, if nothing else, I could show you what it's like to create a maelstrom in the ocean. Someday, if we become a type 3 civilization, we'll do that in reality...
 

[Nuke]

RG is on the tipping point of accession.   Soon he will think a universe into existence. 

 

It sounds awesome. Can you please post a list of all the things you took and things you did, even the trivial things? I'm sure many people would like to induce it in some way.

 

NGF is on my list to try. I would really like to to gain this too.

[playground]

 

Hi RG,

 

not much to report really.

I took 20 ug of beta-NGF over about 15 days.

I took the last dose around 3rd of Jan. 

So that's about 4 weeks ago.

 

I have been sleeping longer.

It was most evident at the time,

i seemed to be sleeping and extra hour per night.

(long sluggish sleep and it somehow takes an hour to get out of bed,

 ...  this reminds me strongly of being a teenager)

And perhaps it's unrelated, but i seem to remember being lazy like

a teenager during the last few days too.... maybe it's related to getting

all that sleep.

 

I specifically remember noticing that my dreams were more vivid.

They seemed more intense, more somehow tangible,

but they weren't 'lucid dreams' (in the technical sense)

And i remembered my dreams more readily when i woke up.

 

It's been 4 weeks and my dreams are back to ghostly and faint again.

I don't really remember them in the mornings (at the moment)

 

I'm still sleeping well.

My sudoku skills are improving... i.e. I feel that my ability to see the patterns

that reveal that a number is missing from this square or that square,  is improving.

However, i can't demonstrate this by showing you my reduced sudoku times,

because i'm now doing harder sudoku puzzles from a different source.

 

I will be resuming my beta-NGF dosing in the next few days.

I might double the dosage. Go from 1-1.5 ug to 2-3 ug.

 

I'll let you know how this goes.

 

playground.

 

Thanks for the update. The effects on sleep duration, sleep quality, and dream vividness have been confirmed in 2 or 3 subjects here, at this point. Indeed, I don't recall any reports of negative effects in this vein. It's interesting how this coincides closely with the qualitative reports of Liz Parrish, the BioViva CEO who took TERT gene therapy. TERT is supposed to confer broad tissue rejuvenation, including in the brain, if in fact animal results translate to humans. (I suspect that they do, given the very primitive nature of TERT.) Liz says she's sleeping longer and with higher quality than prior to the therapy. On the other hand, we know that neurological aging is associated with sleep disruption. So in the aggregate, this all suggests that NGF is rejuvenating the brain on a biochemical level, regardless of the question of whether or not it's improving other areas of cognition. If nothing else, it might be supporting the growth of neurons, which steals resources that might otherwise be used to produce senile plaque.
 

I'm surprised that you had a very similar experience to mine with only a microgram per day. That's low. At least, it suggests that we might save money by using less betaNGF for a longer period in our lives.

 

And, as in my case, your dream quality waned in the weeks since dosing cessation.

 

It seems to me that our best defense against placebo in this case is the clock next to the bed: it's difficult to sleep longer because one is impressed by betaNGF and therefore resolves not to wake up. I'm not saying that's impossible, but it would require concerted effort as opposed to mere expectation.

 

As to ashitaba chalcone, the worst effect has been some degree of stomach upset. Trust me, do not mix it with pterostilbene! As to effects, apart from the photographic evidence I provided of an age spot that dried up and died, I have noticed almost precisely the same effects as betaNGF. However, it took them almost a month to manifest at roughly 20 mL/d. I can't speculate as to why. I had pretty much given up and thought that I would just take it as a cancer suppressor, when the dreams suddenly escalated in vividness to the same apex as the MITS dream. Combined with other supplements (shiitake-maitake extract, choline and inositol, Longvida, honokiol, methylcobalamin, nigella sativa, c60oo, NR, and meditation with isochronic tones), the results are basically high def TV in your head. It's wild!

 

Is this down to ashitaba chalcone? I don't honestly know. On the one hand, the lab results are highly supportive of the hypothesis that it is, indeed, real chalcone. And we have various studies I've linked to in the past, showing a sharp uptick in NGF in the brain following oral administration. On the other hand, I just cured my sleep apnea via surgery, and started intermittant fasting a few weeks ago. So I'm not yet convinced that this, or in fact the age spot reversal, has anything to do with ashitaba. I'm suffering from "N=1" syndrome.

 

 

 

Hi RG,

 

What happens when you mix Pterostilbene with Ashitaba  Chalcone ?

You're saying it gives you age spots ? ....  or....  something else ? 

I'm not clear.  Please elucidate.

 

How much Ashitaba are you taking and where exactly are you getting it from ?

And the Shiitake Maitake extract ?  How much and where from ?

Choline is probably helping. 

the B8 might be helping (inositol) (B-vitamin complex tablets)

the B12 might be helping too (methylcobalamin)  (B-vitamin complex tablets)

 

No idea about C60oo. What is it ?

 

What's NR ?

 

It's very interesting that you mention honokiol in your list here.

Why ?  Because some years ago, when i was having sleeping problems,

(wow, those days seem a long way away now) .. i took Magnolia Bark extract

(actually Magnolia Bark tea).

You take it about an hour before bed.  It helps you sleep.  It works.

 

I've just tried 'ebaying' for a source in europe.

I find that most of the sources seem to be USA based.

Question;  Where are you getting your honokiol from ?

                  and ... How much are you taking ?

 

However....

 

The pharma industry is populated by liars and scammers.

If they can pin a label like 'anti-cancer' or 'neurotrophic' or 'anti-aging'

on to ....  <any old chemical you fancy> ....  they will.... simply to

promote sales.  

 

So.. is there any 'good' evidence that honokiol is neurotrophic ?

Or is it just a sedative ? 

It's a rhetorical question.  I'm not asking you to do lots of research

to answer this question.  But if there is a persuasive study that

influenced your own thinking, please let me know about it :-)

 

Finally, is the Ashitaba you're taking the same as this percent

Ashitaba ? 

http://www.ebay.co.u...DsAAOSw5VFWPJ0R

 

Similar ?  Same ?  Different ?

 

Thanks for your help :-)

 

playground

 

Edited by playground, 02 February 2016 - 05:08 AM.

[playground]

Two additional issues i'd like to raise.

 

1.  niacin and resveratrol combo.

2.  tinnitus measurement.

 

 

1.  This is off-topic NGF, but potentially important generally to cognitive/neural health.

Introduction:

Niacin has been used by (Dr Abraham Hoffer, i think) to  treat lots of really severe stuff

from Schizophrena, psychoticism, alcoholism, heroin addiction, etc.

It's also been used to treat the suicidal and depressed.

It seems to work to make people feel (emotionally) better.

It seems to stablise their cognitive/emotional functioning.

It seems to give people more self-control and freedom from immediate impulses

(hence help with alcoholism and heroin addiction .....  i suspect it would work with smoking too)

 

Hoffer was giving niacin in several gram dosages of niacin per day to his subjects.

But... niacin is flushing. 

It makes your skin go bright red, hot and itchy for 20 to 30 minutes. 

Some people find this skin 'flushing' alarming, though it is in fact harmless.

This flushing occurs with dosages between 50 and 100 mg.

Hence the flushing prevents people taking sufficient niacin to obtain the

benefits available at 1000 mg or 2000 mg or 3000 mg ....  You get the idea.

 

And here's my bright idea.

I recently discovered that taking Resveratrol regularly, shuts down the flushing response.

It doesn't shut down the cognitive and emotional effects of niacin...  it only

shuts down the flushing side effect.

 

So if you want to get the neurological/self discipline/emotional benefits of  larger

dosages of niacin...  start by taking resveratrol first. 

(NOTE: You might need to take resveratrol for several days,

or even several weeks before it wipes out the flush effect)

 

2.  Tinnitus measurement.

Introduction.

One of the effects noticable immediate after taking beta-NGF is that tinnitus seems

to increase.  The problem with Tinnitus, is that it's difficult to monitor the

intensity of tinnitus.  It's not like there's a volume gage you can look at.

 

One way to get an approximate measure of Tinnitus volume is:

Sit in a quiet room with a ticking clock.

Calm yourself down to a meditative state.

After thinking about your breathing, or whatever you normally do,

focus on the ticking of the clock.... Give that volume a score of 10.

Now try to assess your tinnitus relative  to the 10 of the ticking clock.

 

You'll realise that the birds singing outside score 20 or 25.

That the sound of the neighbor's washing machine is 15.

 

Do this several times _prior_  to taking NGF or Ashitaba etc. 

Write down your observations.

 

Hope these suggestions help someone, somewhere.

 

playground

[resveratrol_guy]

Nuke and playground, some great questions about this whole insane affair. I'll try to answer as accurately as I can:

Here's my regimen, in order from what I consider most to least likely to be supporting the visualization capability. Most can be obtained from Amazon:

1. Ashitaba chalcone, average 20 mL/d, maybe 30 at this point. This isn't ashitaba plant; it's the yellow sap. It's the same stuff that I've specified in detail in the group buy thread linked above. I'm confident that it does absolutely nothing for the first few weeks, other than create some minor stomach discomfort. And that, playground, is why I recommend against mixing it with pterostilbene: the gastonomic offensiveness of the resulting emulsion is simply too much to bear.

2. Nature's Way shiitake-maitake extract. I take 1 pill per day, up from 1/3 a year ago, because frankly I'm nuts. It contains 200 mg of oats (probably from the mushroom culture medium), 100 mg of shiitake extract (stem and also fruiting body standardized to 10% polysaccharides including beta glucan), and 100 mg of maitake extract (stem and also fruiting body standardized to 30% polysaccharides including beta glucan).

3. Niagen, my source of nicotinamide riboside (NR). I take 2 pills per day, usually, which consist of 125 mg (each) of NR. This compound has been extensively researched; in particular see the posts by Bryan_S. Longecity search will pull up reems of material.

4. Carbon 60 olive oil (c60oo -- small "c" and small "o"s), not to be confused with normal olive oil. It has also been extensively discussed on Longecity. I probably averaged 3 mg/d since this all came to a head, although I've taken as much as 40 mg in one day long before this started. My source is a friend's homebrew, made under tightly controlled conditions at 800 mg/L C60 (big "C", buckminsterfullerine) stirred for about 10 days in conventional EVOO (extra virgin olive oil).

5. Now brand Curcubrain, each pill suppyling 400 mg of Longvida liposomal curcumin. I take anywhere from 2 to 10 per day, typically 5. If I get dopey, I take one immediately, along with a Niagen and Choline & Inositol. The idea is that stupidity is a early warning sign for increasing neurochemical imbalances, so they need to be corrected promptly before more extensive pollution ensues.

6. Now Choline & Inositol, providing 250 mg of each per pill. I've been taking 3 per day, more or less. These constitute my feeble attempt to capture most of the brain benefits of an egg in a pill without meaningful calories. (I'm calorically restricted, so eating eggs for choline has become a big challenge for me.)

7. Swanson zinc gluconate (not to be confused with zinc citrate in the Two-Per-Day below or zinc oxide in cheap multivitamins). I probably average 10 mg/d, although my head seems distinctly clearer on days that I dose between 25 and 50 mg. (Note that the tolerable upper intake of all forms of zinc is officially 40 mg/d for adults.) I was optimistic that znic citrate would produce the same results, but that does not seem to have occurred.

8. Now Methylcobalamin pills, supplying 1 mg/d. I started taking them in order to treat my elevated homocysteine as detected on 12/30/2015, although it's well known that they support neurological health as well.

9. LifeExtension Niacin. I take 500 mg/d and flush quite severely. Unfortunately, I don't have any resveratrol (yeah, the irony...), playground, but perhaps I can mix it with pterostilbene. I seem to recall reading somewhere that once the body produces sufficient protoglandins, the flush subsides. So your resveratrol might have been coincidental to this internal acclimatization latency, in which case resveratrol would unfortunately be unable to help suppress the flush in naive individuals. Worst case, take a cold shower.

10. Honopure, providing 250 mg of 98% pure honokiol per day, taken before bed. Alternatively I've tried Swanson Magnolia extract (not Magnolia bark) standardized to 90% honokiol (and probably 10% magnolol, which seems to account for the fatigue, in my opinion, with reference to your comment, playground). Honokiol has also been extensively discussed on Longecity. It is associated with neurite outgrowth (as opposed to NSC differentiation into neurons, as with NGF) in rodents. I was worried at one point that it might harm memory, as benzodiazepines may do on account of their similar GABA interaction, but I'm now convinced that this is not a significant concern based on my own experience and the wealth of available research.

11. BioAstin astaxathin 4 mg/d, a potent antioxidant. I was taking this for a CT scan, but noticed some cognitive benefits, so I just continued. I'm pretty skeptical of longterm suppression of ROS signalling, however.

12. Nature's Way niacinamide, providing 500 mg/d, taken before bed.

13. Swanson black cumin seed oil (Nigella sativa), 500 mg/d, taken before bed.

14. Nature Made fish oil, 1 capsule/d, supplying 360 mg omega-3 as EPA (180 mg), DHA (120 mg), and other (60 mg).

15. LifeExtension Two-Per-Day Capsules, supplying a variety of vitamins, but notably neither iron nor copper. I take them twice per day, as instructed. I may drop them and just supplement the nutrients most difficult to acquire through diet (e.g. zinc, selenium, etc.).

16. Jarrow methylfolate pills, supplying 400 ug/d folate. I take one every other day, again for the treatment of hyperhomocysteinemia.

17. Sometimes I will take 900 ug of LifeExtension timed-release melatonin, especially if I have trouble sleeping. This does not seem to be a requirement, unless poor sleep is impairing mental vizualization.

I also do an 11-spot LLLT routine every 3 days or so with my Univivi 850 nm 48 LED wide-angle illuminator. I do 9 spots spread evenly around the skull. Then I do unshielded retinal blasting in both eyes, hoping that some infrared will penetrate through to the hippocampus. All locations last for one minute, strictly timed. I leave the glass on the device, despite the attenuation it causes.

Phew! That's all for now.
 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 02 February 2016 - 03:33 PM.

[Nuke]

This is quite a mouth full(pun intended). Will definitely look into these supplements. NR is on my research list, may be a good addition for a mitocondria stack. 

 

You are serious about B3. Nicotinamide riboside + niacinamide + Niacin. Any reason you are taking them all? 

[resveratrol_guy]

This is quite a mouth full(pun intended). Will definitely look into these supplements. NR is on my research list, may be a good addition for a mitocondria stack. 

 

You are serious about B3. Nicotinamide riboside + niacinamide + Niacin. Any reason you are taking them all? 

 

I asked Bryan_S the same question. It's my understanding that all 3 have take different metabolic paths to the same end, namely NAD+. I got the niacin and niacinamide regimen from Turnbuckle's advice, then added NR later based on overwhelmingly compelling data. All are limited by liver metabolism, so no one should think that more is always better.

 

I should emphasize that the visualization capability won't just hit you over the head. You'll need to activate it, for examply by listening to binaural beats around 80 Hz, or perhaps meditative music. You can also just contemplate visual data sets, but the effect won't be as dramatic unless you concentrate intensely.

 

I did want to mention something about playground's tinnitus observations as well, which is that if you go back and read my betaNGF reports of last summer, you'll find that I encountered the same thing, namely an uptick in tinnitus volume within an hour of insufflation. It certainly has not improved on ashitaba, for that matter, although I don't get such an immediate effect. By contrast, bone marrow stem cell therapy seemed to cause tinnitus to get quieter. I have no idea of the significance of all this, except to say that the tinnitus pop might be a way to confirm diffusion into the brain in some cases, in the absence of any more direct measurement.

 

As to visualization, I recall an interview in which Dr. Stuart Hameroff said that religious practitioners who took peyote (shrooms) experienced spectacular visions (as we would expect from this drug), yet functional MRI revealed a decrease in brain activity relative to baseline. This would be consistent with his theory that some molecule in these mushrooms (and probably other species as well) is enabling the brain to enter macro scale entanglement, tying remote neurons together in a single quantum state, just as a real quantum computer would do. Note that this does not imply that all the atoms in all those neurons are involved. It might only be a subset large enough to enable quantum computation with enough processing power to render the experience in a convincing manner. Objectively, all of this is consistently associated with a leap in the gamma synchrony frequency from around 40 Hz (normal cognition) to 80 or 120 Hz. Because quantum computation emits essentially zero radiation, fMRI would indeed appear hypoactive. The more I experience, the harder it is for me to believe that it's all due to pushing electrons or neurotransmitters around, which is expensive especially in such a noisy environment. Rather, those superficial transactions lay the morphable network upon which the quantum computation occurs, and provide input and output pathways for the data. But what do I know!

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 04 February 2016 - 12:48 AM.

[Samwise]

So your visualizations are super strong, but how is your actual eyesight? Have you noticed any other physical effects?

[middpanther88]

Interested to know more about these visualizations.

[playground]

A quick, but potentially important digression here.

 

All the science journals and papers you could want are current available at scihub.org

See this thread for more details:

http://projectavalon...pread-knowledge

 

and check this site for millions of free books:

 

http://en.bookfi.net

 

share the wealth.

 

playground

 

 

 

 

Edited by playground, 13 February 2016 - 12:43 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

So your visualizations are super strong, but how is your actual eyesight? Have you noticed any other physical effects?

 

My actual eyesight is as good as it's ever been, although I can't say that any of my experimentation has really improved it, apart from a reduction of floaters which occurred a while ago and I mostly attributed to c60oo.

 

Physically, I haven't really noticed anything apart from the expected effects of having been on intermittant fasting. I don't really exercise at all, which is probably OK because I'm counting on ghlerin to stimulate endogenous NGF (per Lostfalco's research) in addition to the various exogenous sources that I've been attempting to utilize.

[resveratrol_guy]

Interested to know more about these visualizations.

 

Well it's a complicated phenomenon. I wouldn't mind answering specific questions if you have any. It does certainly ebb and flow based on many variables, most of which I probably have not yet identified.

 

One anecdote that might be informative is what happened the other night. (By the way, sorry I haven't logged in in a while. Every so often I get a "math attack" and end up writing a huge amount of software. It sometimes takes me much longer than anticipated to complete the brain dump, hence my sporadic protracted absences.)

 

So anyway, the other night I was lying in bed, staring at my open closet. The closet itself needed some repairs and I was trying to figure out the best way to execute them without disrupting the contents too much. After a few minutes, I came up with a plan, then decided to go to sleep. Now, I wear a sleep mask to bed, which I highly recommend to those of you who are annoyed by ambient light in your sleep. Occasionally, I wake up and prop it up on my forehead so I can see what's happening around me, for instance, to get a glass of water in the kitchen. Instinctively, I reached up to my forehead for the mask, so that I could pull it over my eyes and settle down to sleep. Only, it was already over my eyes! I must have turned pale white, laying there in the dark, blood run cold. And not because I failed to realize that my eyes had been closed the whole time. But, more generally, because I fear that there may come a day when the visualizations fuse with my life. Perhaps, were that to occur, I would be transported into another life, compressed inside this one, in which perhaps time appears to pass more slowly according to the wall clock. Methinks I've taken the red pill, only to discover that the blue pill is reality. But for now, it only happened once. And yes, I did actually repair my closet!

[Lsdium]

 

Interested to know more about these visualizations.

 

Well it's a complicated phenomenon. I wouldn't mind answering specific questions if you have any. It does certainly ebb and flow based on many variables, most of which I probably have not yet identified.

 

One anecdote that might be informative is what happened the other night. (By the way, sorry I haven't logged in in a while. Every so often I get a "math attack" and end up writing a huge amount of software. It sometimes takes me much longer than anticipated to complete the brain dump, hence my sporadic protracted absences.)

 

So anyway, the other night I was lying in bed, staring at my open closet. The closet itself needed some repairs and I was trying to figure out the best way to execute them without disrupting the contents too much. After a few minutes, I came up with a plan, then decided to go to sleep. Now, I wear a sleep mask to bed, which I highly recommend to those of you who are annoyed by ambient light in your sleep. Occasionally, I wake up and prop it up on my forehead so I can see what's happening around me, for instance, to get a glass of water in the kitchen. Instinctively, I reached up to my forehead for the mask, so that I could pull it over my eyes and settle down to sleep. Only, it was already over my eyes! I must have turned pale white, laying there in the dark, blood run cold. And not because I failed to realize that my eyes had been closed the whole time. But, more generally, because I fear that there may come a day when the visualizations fuse with my life. Perhaps, were that to occur, I would be transported into another life, compressed inside this one, in which perhaps time appears to pass more slowly according to the wall clock. Methinks I've taken the red pill, only to discover that the blue pill is reality. But for now, it only happened once. And yes, I did actually repair my closet!

 

 

Interesting, i have heard other stories such as yours. I also read a story about an old lady who said everytime her closed her eye she could visualize colours, shapes, flowers, mountains and many of her past memories in full high definition with no effort at all! Wish to have that ability, but what do we call this condition? Can it be trained?

 

Edited by Lsdium, 22 February 2016 - 12:11 PM.

[ceridwen]

That sounds worrying. I do that in sort of thing all the time with my glasses

[resveratrol_guy]

Interesting, i have heard other stories such as yours. I also read a story about an old lady who said everytime her closed her eye she could visualize colours, shapes, flowers, mountains and many of her past memories in full high definition with no effort at all! Wish to have that ability, but what do we call this condition? Can it be trained?

 

So first of all, there are really 3 distinct phenomena which I'm chronically experiencing: (1) visualizations so real that I'm "there", even though I realize they are fictitious, for example, the tsunami crashing into the beach on a nonexistent island, (2) intentional visual recall of real environments and objects which I've recently seen, and (3) unintentional real recall with head tracking, like a virtual reality headset, which makes it seem like I'm looking around my familiar environment, even though my eyes are closed.

 

As with computers, observing the errors created by the brain provides insights into what's going on. For example, I always see this one brand of turkey breast in the grocery store. For some random reason, it popped into my head as I woke up this morning. I could read the label that said "Carving Board" with a red Oscar Meyer logo. The logo contained a small gap in the perimeter. But then I remembered from past experience that Oscar Meyer made hot dogs, whereas Hormel was more associated with prepackaged deli cuts. So the visual system was voting for Oscar Meyer, whereas the semantic memory with error correction was voting for Hormel.

 

As you can see here, it's actually the former. And if you look closely, you'll see the gap in the red perimeter around the logo. While I don't claim to have photographic memory, it's interesting that my visual memory won out over straightforward logical thinking, in this case.

 

So this is all to say, Lsdium, that you're really asking about 2 or 3 different phenomena.

 

Based on my experience, I would say that trainability is minimal. I conclude this because many times in my life, I've actually wanted to have better visualization skills, for example, to help solve engineering problems, but was unable to improve on what I already had in my head. It was quite good already, but nowhere near what I seem to possess currently. I do not attribute the improvement to training, as these experiences seem to have a life of their own which is only somewhat influenced by intention. Rather, I attribute them to neurological changes. Part of the answer is surely the better sleep I've been getting as a result of my surgical apnea cure. But clearly that wouldn't cause improvement above and beyond what I had at 20, so there's something else going here. Logically, this "some else" has to do with the additions to my regimen listed above. I wasn't taking any of that at age 20.

 

Training can probably help improve and tune the visual quality, but just like with a video game console, you won't get fundamentally better performance unless you upgrade the circuitry itself.

 

To answer your other question about what I would call these phenomena: (1) immersive visualization, (2) visual recall, and (3) pseudooptical visual recall.

 

And ceridwen is right: it's scary, at least at times when it just occurs unexpectedly. Nevertheless, without a doubt, I would rather have these experiences, than not. It's like living multiple lives, each of which providing a transformative perspective on what could be, as opposed to what is.

[playground]

Do you think all this was initiated by your consumption of 'largish' dosages of beta-NGF ?

 

Your dosages were clearly much bigger than mine

 

I think the effects of beta-NGF are persistent long after you stop taking it.

(a bit like steroids or growth hormone, i suppose).

 

For example... I'm definitely _still_ experiencing more vivid dreams.

And it's just really obvious that i'm _still_ sleeping much longer than i used to.

I had 9.5 hours last night, 10 hours the night before... i think it was only 8 hours

before that, but it was 9.5 the night before that. 

 

I used to get by quite happily on 7.

During busy weeks at work, it might only be 6 per night.

 

So the contrast, the difference, is quite stark.

And it's been weeks since i last had any.

 

However, you're not reporting excessive sleeping.... so.... i wonder if

it really is the beta-NGF that's bestowing this bounty of sleep.

 

But going back to your visualisation skills.

I will eventually take the dosages you originally took.

So I will eventually know if it's your NGF dosages, or not,

that's yielding your visual gifts.

 

playground

 

Edited by playground, 23 February 2016 - 01:28 PM.