612 replies to this topic

[playground]

Dear  Asor / beatstar

 

I'd like to ask if you could find an Italian PDF of Rita's autobiography:  "In Praise of Imperfection".

I have made several attempts at finding a PDF copy of this in english.... but no luck.

 

A PDF copy would be preferable.  Why ?  Because you can word search through it

to find references to the things you're interested in.... like:

 

"eye-drops"  or "NGF"  etc.

(I want to find out if she mentions anything about her NGF eye drops)

 

I also want to search in the PDF for "Paola".

I want to find out if Rita mentions anything about her sister's health.

 

However,  i can't find an english version of the PDF.

I guess it just didn't sell well enough in english for anyone to  want to 'PDF' it.

 

However, Rita was something of a celebrity in Italy. 

Perhaps someone did go to the trouble of PDF-ing the Italian version.

 

 

It's quite ironic that biographies don't sell well, because in many ways they're probably

the most precious writing... usually they contain the core of someone's most valuable

insights, lessons of life, philosophies..etc.   But... i'm digressing.

 

 

If anyone finds a link to a  PDF copy of 'In Praise of Imperfection' please post it to this thread.

 

Thanks to anyone who helps.

 

Playground 

 

[resveratrol_guy]

Here you go. You can buy it on Amazon.

 

Note, from the comments, her caloric restriction and good sleep hygiene:

 

If you want to live to a 100, you might consider following Rita Levi-Montalcini's routine: get up at five in the morning, eat just once a day, at lunchtime, keep your brain active, and go to bed at 11pm.

"I might allow myself a bowl of soup or an orange in the evening, but that's about it," she says. "I'm not really interested in food, or sleep."

 

Still, that doesn't mean that NGF was not part of the story. So who is going to buy this and search it for references to eye drops?

 

P.S. Neither Amazon nor Google Books are aware of an electronic version, so that we means we need to read it the old fashioned way.

 

EDIT: It looks like you can download it for free (with a free 5-day trial) or view it online here, but you need to create an account. Also a soft copy seems to be for sale here.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 04 June 2015 - 04:34 PM.

[playground]

Here you go. You can buy it on Amazon.

 

Note, from the comments, her caloric restriction and good sleep hygiene:

 

If you want to live to a 100, you might consider following Rita Levi-Montalcini's routine: get up at five in the morning, eat just once a day, at lunchtime, keep your brain active, and go to bed at 11pm.

"I might allow myself a bowl of soup or an orange in the evening, but that's about it," she says. "I'm not really interested in food, or sleep."

 

Still, that doesn't mean that NGF was not part of the story. So who is going to buy this and search it for references to eye drops?

 

P.S. Neither Amazon nor Google Books are aware of an electronic version, so that we means we need to read it the old fashioned way.

 

EDIT: It looks like you can download it for free (with a free 5-day trial) or view it online here, but you need to create an account. Also a soft copy seems to be for sale here.

 

Hi RG,

 

The amazon listing is useful, but it's a last resort, it's $43 for a second hand copy... and then there's shipping to Switzerland.

 

The second link is to a service, which, when you click to sign up, takes you to  https://www.tzarmedia.com.

The disconcerting part about that is they want your credit card details as part of the sign up....

and there's no PayPal or other option for making payment. 

And they want the credit card details directly into the site, they don't take you to secure payment site, etc.

It's all a bit fishy.

 

The third link, is actually a review of the book by someone called Weiss.

And bizarrely, they want to charge me $19 for 24 hours of online access (to the review)

 

I've actually spent several hours trying to track this down.

I resorted to asking the italians for help (Asor and beatstar)

And i've also contacted a book seller in Turino.

 

I'm going to let those irons in the fire incubate ... 

... perhaps they will yield fruit in a day two .. (to mix metaphors)

 

Thanks RG, I appreciate your suggestions.

 

Playground.

 

PS... It's quite amazing that she survived as long as she did given her apparent disinterest in diet and sleep.

But interesting too that she professed an 'early to bed, early to rise' philosophy. 

That seems to come up repeatedly.

Edited by playground, 04 June 2015 - 05:15 PM.

[Metagene]

I could only muster up the Italian version: Elogio dell'imperfezione - Levi Montalcini Rita

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

[playground]

I could only muster up the Italian version: Elogio dell'imperfezione - Levi Montalcini Rita

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

Metagene, :-)   You're a star.

Thank you very much.
 

Playground.

 

I'd be very grateful to everyone for pressing that 'LIKE' button on Metagene's post.

[Metagene]

 

I could only muster up the Italian version: Elogio dell'imperfezione - Levi Montalcini Rita

 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

Metagene, :-)   You're a star.

Thank you very much.
 

Playground.

 

I'd be very grateful to everyone for pressing that 'LIKE' button on Metagene's post.

 

 

Aw shucks, you guys are the best. 

[resveratrol_guy]

Nice work, Metagene! Unfortunately, based on a quick search of the document for "gram", "mg", "ug", "mcg", all numbers, and "occhi" (eye(s)), I do not think that this document contains the information we're looking for. There are lots of hits on occhi, but from the surrounding text, it appears to be metaphorical, e.g. "in my eyes this means..." etc.

 

The Italians should take a closer look, but I fear we've exhausted the well of public information on this particular question.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 04 June 2015 - 07:26 PM.

[Asor]

I went through the whole book using the search function on NGF, not once she talked about taking it herself, for the most part she talks about the discovery and her experience in the USA and then other researches she did in Brazil and Italy.

 

Now im searching for Paola, her twin sister: first thing mentioned, they were bi-ovular twins, the most common type, and biovular twins can be profoundly different from each other.

 

She explicitly talks about how different they were:

 

"La mia gemella Paola, che lo adorava, fin dalla prima infanzia aveva manifestato un grande
talento artistico che suscitava in me un'ammirazione incondizionata, senza invidia né rimpianti, forse
proprio perché di quel dono io ero invece del tutto priva.
Questa era soltanto una delle differenze, palesi sin dai primi anni di vita, tra noi. Le altre non
meno significative, che rivelavano a prima vista la nostra gemellanza biovulare, trasparivano
dall'aspetto fisico, dal carattere e dal comportamento. La forma e i lineamenti del suo viso erano
diversi dai miei. Sotto la fronte alta, leggermente convessa, gli occhi azzurri, ridenti, denotavano una
disposizione (in realtà più apparente che reale) all'allegria, che incantava nostro padre. Sebbene l'età
non permettesse di indovinare il disegno ancora recondito dei geni nel modellare i tratti (un disegno
che la pubertà avrebbe rivelato del tutto conforme alle speranze), era motivo di gioia e di orgoglio
paterno constatare la straordinaria somiglianza di quel visino infantile con il suo.
A sua volta la mamma si compiaceva di osservare che io ero invece come asseriva - il ritratto
vivente di sua madre. Rivedeva nei miei, i suoi occhi grigio-verdi dallo sguardo malinconico, la
leggera asimmetria del viso, la conformazione gracile e longilinea dell'impalcatura scheletrica. La
mia tendenza ad appartarmi e rifuggire dal confronto con altre persone di ambo i sessi, le
ricordavano il carattere triste e riservato della madre che aveva adorato e perduto nell'adolescenza."

 

You can google translate, but in short she's mentioning all the physical and personality differences between them, how her twin Paola resembled the father and how Rita resembled her grand-mother.

 

 

[playground]

I went through the whole book using the search function on NGF, not once she talked about taking it herself, for the most part she talks about the discovery and her experience in the USA and then other researches she did in Brazil and Italy.

 

Now im searching for Paola, her twin sister: first thing mentioned, they were bi-ovular twins, the most common type, and biovular twins can be profoundly different from each other.

 

She explicitly talks about how different they were:

 

"La mia gemella Paola, che lo adorava, fin dalla prima infanzia aveva manifestato un grande
talento artistico che suscitava in me un'ammirazione incondizionata, senza invidia né rimpianti, forse
proprio perché di quel dono io ero invece del tutto priva.
Questa era soltanto una delle differenze, palesi sin dai primi anni di vita, tra noi. Le altre non
meno significative, che rivelavano a prima vista la nostra gemellanza biovulare, trasparivano
dall'aspetto fisico, dal carattere e dal comportamento. La forma e i lineamenti del suo viso erano
diversi dai miei. Sotto la fronte alta, leggermente convessa, gli occhi azzurri, ridenti, denotavano una
disposizione (in realtà più apparente che reale) all'allegria, che incantava nostro padre. Sebbene l'età
non permettesse di indovinare il disegno ancora recondito dei geni nel modellare i tratti (un disegno
che la pubertà avrebbe rivelato del tutto conforme alle speranze), era motivo di gioia e di orgoglio
paterno constatare la straordinaria somiglianza di quel visino infantile con il suo.
A sua volta la mamma si compiaceva di osservare che io ero invece come asseriva - il ritratto
vivente di sua madre. Rivedeva nei miei, i suoi occhi grigio-verdi dallo sguardo malinconico, la
leggera asimmetria del viso, la conformazione gracile e longilinea dell'impalcatura scheletrica. La
mia tendenza ad appartarmi e rifuggire dal confronto con altre persone di ambo i sessi, le
ricordavano il carattere triste e riservato della madre che aveva adorato e perduto nell'adolescenza."

 

You can google translate, but in short she's mentioning all the physical and personality differences between them, how her twin Paola resembled the father and how Rita resembled her grand-mother.

 

Excellent, thanks Asor,

 

So, that's about as authoritative as it gets, they simply weren't identical twins.

 

So Rita and Paola only share 50% of their genes, not 100%.

It would be as valid to compare Rita with Anna, the other sister (who lived to be 95).

 

The study i cited earlier (several posts ago) as the source of the twins longevity data says

this:

The intrapair difference of longevity was 6.65 +/- 5.6 years (maximum 18.0; minimum 0.04)

in the MZ pairs, and 8.66 +/- 7.2 years (maximum 18.6; minimum 2.9) in the DZ pairs"

source: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1302428

(published  in "Acta Genet Med Gemellol (Roma)")

 

So the new mean and variance numbers (for non-identical siblings) are:  8.66 +/- 7.2 years

So to be outside of 2 standard deviation points Rita would have to be 15.86 years older

than her sisters.   She was 12 years older than Paola and only 8 years older than Anna.

She's clearly not (statistically)  significantly longer lived than Anna.

 

She's probably not significantly longer lived than Paola either, but, there remains a question mark,

since this  study data were collected of identical twins who died aged 50+. 

But we know that the  'per year' chances of living another year

are much higher at 50 than they are at 60, and 70 and 80 etc.

A more appropriate data set would be of twins aged over 90.   

But those twins must be as rare as hen's teeth.  So the data just isn't there.

 

In any case, the charm of the comparison (of Rita with Paola) rested on them sharing 100%

DNA, which, we now find, they do not.

 

Following this lead had the potential of teaching us a lot of useful information.

It was worth the investment of time and energy, since the implications of learning, for

example, that Rita was using the eye drops in 1988 would have strongly indicated murine NGF.

The fact that she hasn't mentioned it, however, doesn't mean she wasn't using NGF back then.

(... we still need to figure out when she started taking the eye drops)

 

Working collectively we've made much more progress than any one of us could

have achieved alone.  It's all good stuff.

 

Playground.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by playground, 04 June 2015 - 09:42 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

All good points, guys. (I guess the photo was honest!) I still think living to 103 is statistically significant, mainly because as Playground pointed out, it's a very different set of statistics at 90, than 50. And by the way, it's not that NGF sustains brain function so that an individual can think better and therefore survive better (although that's part of it); it's that NGF supports basal brain functions such as autonomic and motor functions, which might otherwise deteriorate just enough to increase the probabilty of fracturing a hip, for example, thereby increasing morbidity. At least, that's the theoretical link from neurology to longevity.

 

It seems to me that we're at the point where it's going to cost more to continue researching this, than just to procede with a polite call to EBRI. Thoughts?

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 05 June 2015 - 03:27 AM.

[normalizing]

im surprised the biography doesnt mention her using NGFdrops in her eyes since many sources all over internet state she specifically mentions it. so wtf, she did or didnt use them now?

[playground]

im surprised the biography doesnt mention her using NGFdrops in her eyes since many sources all over internet state she specifically mentions it. so wtf, she did or didnt use them now?

 

I'm also a little surprised she didn't mention in her autobiography.

 

Her autobiography was published in 1988.

She was an internationally famous scientist by 1988. 

She won the Nobel Prize in 1986.

 

So in those circumstances, perhaps she felt that her autobiography

was going to be a very public document.  Perhaps she was

thinking of a (conservatively minded) academic audience when

she was writing it.

 

She may have worried about being criticised for either

(a) 'pinching' the lab supplies  (NGF isn't cheap)

(b) unprofessional conduct (experimenting on herself)

 

Or... perhaps she didn't mention it because she wasn't using it then.

 

We don't know....(at least, not yet).

 

Playground.

[playground]

...it's that NGF supports basal brain functions such as autonomic and motor functions, which might otherwise deteriorate just enough to increase the probabilty of fracturing a hip, for example, thereby increasing morbidity. At least, that's the theoretical link from neurology to longevity.

 

Yes... that sounds very plausible.... or even probable.

 

Playground.

[Asor]

im surprised the biography doesnt mention her using NGFdrops in her eyes since many sources all over internet state she specifically mentions it. so wtf, she did or didnt use them now?

 

We also got to consider that she wrote several other books, and where she could mention her experimenting with NGF.

[resveratrol_guy]

So the good news is that I found a page decribing a patent for NGF eye drops (and which provides some vendor links for raw NGF and a recipe for making eye drops), in which it asserts that 200-250 ug/ml is an optimal concentration. If I remember from high school chemistry, 1 ml is about 50 drops. As we know from personal experience, 3 drops per eye is about all we can actually accomodate without losing all the liquid. So the bad news is that 500 ug of NGF costs $470. Let's see, at 6/50 of 200 ug per day, that would last (500/200)*(50/6) days, or about 3 weeks. In other words, we're talking about $22/day for something that you need to continue for the rest of your life. Then again, if it worked, you might be smart enough to increase your income by more than that.

 

Like many of you, my problem is that I'm not competent to make eye drops, given only less NGF than I could possibly see with my eyes.

 

At least, we have this page explaining (1) why NGF eye drops are a financial dead end and (2) what other supplements would raise NGF effectively, and probably at much less cost.

 

Granted, we do have molecule monkeys here who could probably synthesize it for us more cheaply, but it needs to be like 10X cheaper to be practical. It's a huge molecule, so this is not likely feasible with present technology.

 

[Ark]

http://www.chn-snake...ushannah/7.html

[Ark]

http://thebestthesis.com/?doc/1647708
I think the cobra extract route, may cost considerably less.

[playground]

 

im surprised the biography doesnt mention her using NGFdrops in her eyes since many sources all over internet state she specifically mentions it. so wtf, she did or didnt use them now?

 

We also got to consider that she wrote several other books, and where she could mention her experimenting with NGF.

 

 

Hi Asor, you're right.

 

I had no idea she'd written so many books.

She obviously kept herself busy.

 

It seems that most of the books about Rita are only available in Italian.

 

I notice that on Amazon, when i search for 'Rita Levi-Montalcini' several books come up that are about RLM, but not by her.

These independent authors might be a good source of information.

 

2009 was the date that the NGF eye-drops story broke.

 

Any books about RLM published after 2009 are likely to spend at least a page or two

discussing the eye-drops issue.  Rita was probably interviewed many times between

2009 and her death in 2012.  Perhaps some of those interview answers

made it into books, or perhaps magazine articles.... probably Italian books and Italian

magazine articles.

 

I wonder if our Italian friends could perform this simple search on www.google.it:

 

"Rita Levi-Montalcini  eye drops "   (obviously...  translated  into Italian)

 

This might well produce references to magazine articles (since many magazines

have an online edition).  So this could be a simple and efficient way of making

progress with this.

 

Of-course, i can't read Italian, so i can't begin to figure out which of the books

published after 2009, might be a good one to focus on. 

 

Perhaps Asor or beatstar might suggest a promising book title.

An independent biography perhaps ?

 

Basically, we want to know the following:

=> When did she start taking NGF ?  (It might  be since 1975.... equally, it might be after 1995)

=> What type of NGF was she taking ?  (human recombinant NGF, or  murine (mouse) NGF.... something else ?)

=> What dose was she taking ?  (i  predict 10mcg, from a 200mcg/ml solution... but ... that's based on her animal work)

 

Thank you to anyone that  helps with this

 

Playground.

[playground]

http://thebestthesis.com/?doc/1647708
I think the cobra extract route, may cost considerably less.

 

how much does it cost ?

[curious_george]

I am still very eager to get started with NGF ASAP.... Let's get the 1st Group Buy done and over with....  Who's going to coordinate the Buy?

If we have any trouble meeting the minimum 20mg then please inform me as I will make up the difference personally in the spirit of getting this thing in motion asap!  (can you tell I am eager? haha)  I am more than convinced with everything I have read and I will not rest until I have this product in my fridge....

Please post the instructions to proceed with the Group Buy... I suggest that all interested parties send a private message to PlasticPerson to confirm your commitment and payment and that PlasticPerson can post updates on the Forum here as far as how close we are to meeting the minimum order amount   

[normalizing]

 

im surprised the biography doesnt mention her using NGFdrops in her eyes since many sources all over internet state she specifically mentions it. so wtf, she did or didnt use them now?

 

I'm also a little surprised she didn't mention in her autobiography.

 

Her autobiography was published in 1988.

She was an internationally famous scientist by 1988. 

She won the Nobel Prize in 1986.

 

So in those circumstances, perhaps she felt that her autobiography

was going to be a very public document.  Perhaps she was

thinking of a (conservatively minded) academic audience when

she was writing it.

 

She may have worried about being criticised for either

(a) 'pinching' the lab supplies  (NGF isn't cheap)

(b) unprofessional conduct (experimenting on herself)

 

Or... perhaps she didn't mention it because she wasn't using it then.

 

We don't know....(at least, not yet).

 

Playground.

 

 

 

i believe she started using ngf in the 90s so if biography is in 88, it makes sense not mentioning it.

 

[Asor]

playground: some good news.

I googled Rita Levi Montalcini and "gocce" (which means drops) and a whole lot of super interesting stuff came up.

 

There are SEVERAL studies going on right now using NGF as a way to cure retinitis pigmentosa AND ocular tumors.

The type of drops used are "rhNGF", aka recombinant human nerve growth factor.

Another study involves rhNGF for ocular tumors.

Another to repair the cornea.

Im going to past the related links here, you can google translate, a whole lot of information is in these articles, at the moment i am about to head out but i will search for more stuff later and translate what i can.

 

http://www.galileone...rare-la-cornea/

 

http://www.galileone...ite-pigmentosa/

 

http://www.galileone...lla-montalcini/

 

http://www.iapb.it/news3.php?id=2044

 

One of the articles is from April 2015, as you can see, so we have very recent stuff and some of the studies mentioned are about to end and the results will be published (one is supposed to end in November 2015).

 

What i found here is just about the eye so far, apparently Rita started taking the drops for some issues with her eyesight and later realized the drops could reach the brain and improve her neuronal capacity (probably butchering the terminology here).

 

I alwo wonder about the difference between rhNGF and NGF... which is not clear to me.

 

Edited by Asor, 06 June 2015 - 11:52 AM.

[dz93]

Maybe it had nothing to do with longevity or cognition. Maybe she was just taking it to keep her vision sharp or something.

Boom! Called it! Lol

Edited by dz93, 06 June 2015 - 12:20 PM.

[RobbieG]

I just want to say how impressed I am with the posts on this topic. I wish every topic on longecity was tackled as thoroughly and smartly.

[Nuke]

What I find interesting is that I have not seen a single picture of her wearing glasses. I may be that she is wearing contacts, but it may also be that it stops a lot of eye deterioration. Just started with my research on NGF, but it seems interesting on many levels.

[Asor]

This is the company that produces the rhNGF used in the studies

 

http://www.dompe.com/Oftalmologia/

 

Contact Page to ask for infos:

 

http://www.dompe.com/contatti/

[resveratrol_guy]

First of all, if the lion's mane studies are any clue, NGF is something which requires periodic replenishment. This makes sense because we lose neurons every day, but replace only a fraction of them. So in order to create actual cognitive benefit, as opposed to merely slowing decline, we need to provide a steady stream of new neurons. Based on the lion's mane studies, I would say that a month or two is enough time to return to baseline. That's quite fast, considering the astronomical cost of NGF.

Secondly, the reason for which Rita was taking eye drops is purely of historical interest. It's the effect that we're concerned with. So the fact that she might have been taking them to treat an eye problem does not mean that the NGF could not have created cognitive benefits.

positiveeddy, I admire your enthusiasm. But who, exactly, is going to make this for us? Either we buy NGF at the astronomical prices I mentioned above (20 mg would be like $18,000), or we pay one of our friendly molecule monkeys to make it for us, presumably including dissolution in the proper amount of saline. Area-1255 is the username of the person who handled the latest dihexa synthesis, so that would be a good place to start if you want local help. Personally, I'm not optimistic, largely for financial reasons. But if the wealthier people here give it a try, that will make it more affordable for the rest of us, eventually. So I support the idea of a group buy.

Asor, NGF is "nerve growth factor". It's a generic term. The actual molecular form differences between primates (rhNGF) and mice (mNGF) and other species.
 

P.S. When it comes to Google Translate, you can't learn much more than the general subject of a given article. It has critical flaws in translation quality. I would look to our helpful Italian contributors for verification when it matters.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 06 June 2015 - 02:57 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

This is the company that produces the rhNGF used in the studies

 

http://www.dompe.com/Oftalmologia/

 

Contact Page to ask for infos:

 

http://www.dompe.com/contatti/

 

Cool! Do they say anything about pricing or availability? BTW I believe "rh" stands for "rhesus (monkey)" so this should be the human stuff. If I'm wrong about this, then someone please correct me.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 06 June 2015 - 03:02 PM.

[curious_george]

Alright, just to clarify NGF administered through eye drops have a dose in the 1-10 microgram range. That means a single milligram will be at least 100 doses. This stuff is extremely potent. To put into perspective how powerful substances can be in the microgram range just think about LSD or Fentanyl. A dose of 100 micrograms of LSD can be a life changing experience. 

 

Also this NGF is the NGF from humans that produces neurotrophic effects.

 

The company I plan on using is  BIO-FD&C CO. All the other companies that go back to me wanted at least $500 per milligram. This company wants $100 per milligram and wants at least a minimum order of 30 milligrams. This does not include same day over seas shipping which will be done in a controlled temperature vessel that the company provides. Subsequently, the shipping is $374.99. On top of that shipping buyers will have to pay for the next day shipping to their house which will be done in a regular box with an ice pack. The company will ship the NGF in sealed individual bottles in a buffered solution. A buffered solution poses no problem for eye drops btw. 

 

We should just keep this thread as the official NGF Group Buy thread. I'll be the coordinator of this group buy. If Longecity wants ill post all the messages between me and the company and screenshots of all the transactions. 

 

In the group buy purchase each person will be subjected to buying in increments of 1mg. Although, the company wants at least 30mg (or 30 orders for us) we are not limited to only 30mg. A buying time period of about 1-2 weeks should be implemented after 30 buyers have been found that would allow the opportunity for more people to get in on the group buy. Please leave opinions  for how long the period should be after the initial 30 buyers are found. 

 

The only thing I ask for being the coordinator of this group buy is that each buyer chips in to buy a sample that can be used for testing. I have access to the major analysis machines that will be used to determine that our final product is truly NGF.. although I'm sure it will be. I will carry out all different types of analysis and post all results. Making sure we get real NGF is VERY important to me.

 

AS far as payment goes per Buyer:

 

X = # of Buyers 

 

NGF: $100 per mg 

Shipping from manufacturer: $374.99/X 

Shipping to buyer (US): Overnight = $40; 2-3 Day = $10-$15 (I recommend overnight)

Shipping to buyer(Int'l): Custom quote.. PM me

Sample for testing: $100/X

 

Add all of this together and get your total...For US buyer this is looking around 150-160. Payitsquare proved to be a good platform to use for group buys.

 

The main problem that will prohibit most people from buying is the fact that they are only getting 1mg...Please look up the studies about dose and NGF.. in most of them not ever a full MICROGRAM was used. 1mg will be AT LEAST 100 doses however it could be up to 1000. 

 

In the past group buys have been successful and unsuccessful especially with the last DIHEXA group buy being unsuccessful. I don't wanna see group buys die because of DIHEXA's failures. Lets make this group buy a precedent for all future group buys and show longecity that this CAN be done!

 

Please leave any suggestions.. after a good group of people show interest in the group buy ill open up the payforit or whatever we agree to use for payment

 

 

Can we move forward with this Group Buy please?  There is more than enough demand in this thread to meet the minimum of 30mg.  

I will coordinate the Buy personally if it is needed but I will need the contact info of this Factory that is willing to make it for us for such an amazing price!  As previously stated I will see to it that if we fall short of the minimum by the deadline that I will personally make up any difference so that this Buy can be completed.

I hope that PlasticPerson is still willing to coordinate this transaction.  If not, please, I ask that the contact info be forwarded to me so that I can complete the transaction during the next few weeks.

Can we set a Deadline of July 1st to have our orders IN and PAID?  This would mean we can all look forward to receiving our NGF at some point later July most likely   

We wait for your word PlasticPerson...  Please let us know how to proceed...

[Asor]

Cool! Do they say anything about pricing or availability? BTW I believe "rh" stands for "rhesus (monkey)" so this should be the human stuff. If I'm wrong about this, then someone please correct me.

 

 

nothing about pricing or availability, i guess it's restricted to researches so far, but i will investigate further.

 

about rhNGF:

 

"Il collirio a base di Nerve Growth Factor ricombinante umano (rhNGF, del tutto simile al NGF naturalmente prodotto dall’organismo umano e che stimola la crescita, il mantenimento e la sopravvivenza delle cellule nervose) è la prima terapia a essere stata approvata dalla Food and Drug Administration (Fda) e dall’Agenzia Europea per i medicinali (Ema) per una sperimentazione per la retinite pigmentosa."

 

rh= ricombinante umano = human recombinant.

 

Full translation:

 

"The Nerve Growth Factor human recombinant (rhNGF, totally similar to NGF naturally producted from human organism and that stimulates growth, maintenance and survival of nervous cells) it's the first therapy to be approved by FDS and EMA (European Medicines Agency) for the experimentation on retinitis pigmentosa."