39 replies to this topic

[Qowpel]

Yep the consensus is retinoids, when used correctly, have been proven for over 30 years. You think most Derms just lie when they sing the praises of it?

 

Well doctors aren't exactly all knowing. I had a doctor prescribe me Cipro when my urine analysis showed absolutely no bacterial infection. Well, "take it just in case"..... why so I can be floxed?............Not to bash them I mean, but no doctor would ever suggest we use a pretty promising-seeming substance like c60...... My point is, this is why we have this forum. To question things.... to learn from each other.... If we simply stopped at the first notion of what doctors happened to undertake, then we would quite possibly reach a stalemate and cease to progress in our communal search for longevity...........

 

Mustard, you are a very smart person, as are most on this forum. We should definitely always ask questions I think........... I mean we know some of he definite positives of the drug. But what about the negatives?

[Heyman]

 

we talk about topical? tretinoin and isotretinoin belong to the same class, and taken orally share many effects (good or not). Used as creams are ok ... I would say super! but the use of oral definitely no .

 

Was just reading further into this forum. Some believe that the phenomenon of "thinned skin" after long term retin A use, of course, may be due to the epidermis being stripped fro the rapid sloughing off of skin cells. But also, it seems that the MMPs that Retinoids slow the formation of, are actually crucial to skin remodeling and collagen formation. To me this may mean that...........ok let me put it this way.........

 

There is no thinned skin from long-term retin A use. Retin A thins your epidermis and thickens your dermis initially. After a few months, these changes reverse back to normal as your skin gets used to it. The other benefits however remain, so this thinning you talk about is short-term. As Retin A increases collagen, I don't quite get how it could inhibit collagen formation or how this is relevant.

 

MMPs are not necessarily there for degrading your collagen, there are many more functions. But even if it were the case, I fail to see how a lack of degradation or lack of remodeling would lead to lower levels of collagen - almost any research on retin A shows if anything increased collagen overall and reversal of sun-damage, which does not seem like problems due to a lack of remodeling or even a net loss of anything.

 

There are many people on any drug that mention problems with it, from depression to fat loss to hair gain to anything. The issue is that in many studies an equal amount of people have these side-effects on the placebo group as well. Thats why anecdotal evidence is almost useless unless you really made pictures of yourself in the exact same comparable lightning conditions with a high enough quality, then maybe it would be easier to convince people.

 

I say this as someone who made that mistake myself. I had a wrinkle between my eyes. I'm sure I would blame it on something would I not have found a picture of myself when I was about 18-19 years old where I had the exact same issue. I just never noticed all those years before and was convinced it developed overnight and suddenly saw it all the time. Try to become more relaxed.

Edited by Heyman, 21 September 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[mustardseed41]

 

Yep the consensus is retinoids, when used correctly, have been proven for over 30 years. You think most Derms just lie when they sing the praises of it?

 

Well doctors aren't exactly all knowing. I had a doctor prescribe me Cipro when my urine analysis showed absolutely no bacterial infection. Well, "take it just in case"..... why so I can be floxed?............Not to bash them I mean, but no doctor would ever suggest we use a pretty promising-seeming substance like c60...... My point is, this is why we have this forum. To question things.... to learn from each other.... If we simply stopped at the first notion of what doctors happened to undertake, then we would quite possibly reach a stalemate and cease to progress in our communal search for longevity...........

 

Mustard, you are a very smart person, as are most on this forum. We should definitely always ask questions I think........... I mean we know some of he definite positives of the drug. But what about the negatives?

 

 

I'd be the first to agree with you that doctors are not all knowing. From using Tretinoin for pushing 20 years and all that I've read about it, there is no doubt in my mind about it. With that being said, here a some things I've observed about it over the years. Like almost anything except water maybe, it's not for everyone. Some people just can't tolerate it for whatever reason. Usually those reasons are they used it the wrong way. But not always.

Some people think it works very soon, but in reality takes many months to see real results. The issues some people have under their eyes using it is a mystery. I've read of quite a number of people having that issue.

 

This is my favorite link for usage. http://www.skinacea....ml#.VB7ak1e0uCl

Edited by mustardseed41, 21 September 2014 - 02:36 PM.

[Epitopia]

This is repetivie but shoud be stressed. The "problem" with retin A is that side effects often occur before the desired effects set on. First and very soon comes thinning of the epidermis and later comes increased collagen in the dermis. If you want the benefits you just have to get through the transient phase of worse looking skin.

 

 

[ladida]

This article mentions loss of fat in rodents in response to retinoids.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17975308.

There are several more of these.

And a lot of reports on the internets of people noticing facial fat loss after use of retinoids. 

Edited by ladida, 15 February 2016 - 08:47 AM.

[aconita]

In my experience retin a is worth only for scars prevention, if the area is treated with retin a for a couple of weeks before a surgical intervention the scar formation is somehow reduced and the healing is faster, in other words the outcomes are better.

 

If an injury to the skin is already in place as soon as there is no more an open wound (or very little of it) the use of retin a may prevent scar formation and faster/better healing too.

 

Retin a for a couple of weeks before medium deep acid peeling (TCA) might help in better results, faster healing and less chances of developing discoloration areas (2 weeks retin a followed by at least 1 week off before the peeling).

 

Those are the only cases where retin a seems kind of safe and worth but curiously enough very seldom this way of using it is mentioned.

 

The classical anti aging/anti wrinkle/anti discoloration use of it is not worth the pain in the neck and the VERY potential side effects, very overrated in this respect even by research, in my experience/opinion, of course.

 

Keep a tube of it just in case, especially if you are prone to hypertrophic scar formation or poor wounds healing but leave alone smearing it on your face everyday in the hope of taking years off it, dermaroliing is much safer, cheaper and effective.

  

[Daníel Ingason]

-

 

Edited by Daníel Ingason, 28 February 2016 - 01:31 PM.

[ZuoCi]

There is a reason a lot of people get wrinkles under their eyes when using Retin-A.

Retin-A is used for two reasons(or three), Acne, scars, and wrinkles.

The thing is, it works at different doses, depending on why you're using it.

 

For acne, 0.025% is not overly effective. Same for scars. 0.05% is the minimum, and EoD application is best.

For wrinkles, even 0.025% may be stronger than needed. The one lone study that looked at 0.01%(not a typo) found it equally effective for wrinkle prevention.

Further, ED application and E3D application is equally effective for wrinkle treatment.

 

What a lot of derms stupidly do is prescribe 0.1% daily for wrinkles. This will dry out your eyes terribly. The skin under your eyes is very, very thin. Never use over 0.025% under the eyes. And don't apply more than every 3 days. So many people are using 4x the dose they need, at 3x the frequency. It's not a surprise when they develop wrinkles.

 

Something else you are rarely told is that you need to moisturize with ceremides. A lot of derms will give you cetaphil - which does not contain ceremides.

 

To properly use Retin-A for wrinkles:

Use 0.025% every 3 days

Use a moisturizer with ceremides at least 2x a day(including days when you do not apply retin-a).

 

This should also reduce photo sensitivity.

I know zero people who have used a 0.025% dose every three days with a ceremide moisturizer who experienced additional wrinkling with Retin-A.

Edited by ZuoCi, 24 May 2020 - 02:24 AM.

[Matt]

Someone who has been using Retin-A for 15 years. Doesn't look like she has lost any subcutaneous fat in her face. Her skin is beautiful (and eyelashes!) and much better than most women at 37.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Matt, 10 June 2020 - 10:13 AM.

[platypus]

I have used 0.05% occasionally, let's say once in two weeks in the summer and two times a week in winter for perhaps 10 years. I think it has worked for wrinkle-reduction. I cannot imagine using it EoD in a sunny climate + the dryhing & flaking start pretty quickly at least in my case.