54 replies to this topic

[Sunifiramses II]

I'm curious as well. I've been on the fence about whether to get an e-cig or wait for one of these newfangled nicotinic agonists.

[crazepharmacist]

Bumping. Any update on vendor availability please share

[Bukujutsu]

 

Data looks very promising.  This study is 10+ years old, Taiho pharm would have surely marketed this product if the data was this good...  So the question is why they did not?  Someone should reach out to them, they are still around.

 

There could be multiple reasons. The workings of the industry is often a major one. It's enormously expensive to get drugs approved, so often smaller companies simply sell the intellectual property rights to larger ones.

 

Or they may not have seen enough demand to offset the cost, for it to be worth pursuing. It may be an appealing nootropic, but for disorders, there may not be a big enough market.

[megatron]

This is most likely the reason why GTS-21 hasn't bee chased further, despite showing significant improvements on cognition:

 

"Notable differences between TC-5619, EVP-6124, and DMXB-A include the longer half-life of TC-5619 (24 h) and EVP-6214 (>60 h) compared to 1.5 h for DMXB-A."

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3692393/

 

It appears to have a half-life of only 1.5 hours, rendering it almost useless for personal treatment. I mean, who wants to re-dose every 2 hours?

Edited by Megatrone, 24 September 2014 - 11:55 AM.

[Cherokee]

The paper posted says:

 

"Consistent with a t1/2 of approximately 1 h and a dosing interval of at least 6 h, there was essentially no accumulation of either the parent or metabolite after 5 days of dosing(Figure 2)." 

 

They doses a total of 10x for the duration of the study (5 days) to achieve the effects listed above. Assuming they didn't dose at night. They likely dosed once a day as there's no mention of re-dosing. Definitely not NZT,looks promising for our purposes.

Edited by Cherokee, 24 September 2014 - 12:44 PM.

[megatron]

The paper posted says:

 

"Consistent with a t1/2 of approximately 1 h and a dosing interval of at least 6 h, there was essentially no accumulation of either the parent or metabolite after 5 days of dosing(Figure 2)." 

 

They doses a total of 10x for the duration of the study (5 days) to achieve the effects listed above. Assuming they didn't dose at night. They likely dosed once a day as there's no mention of re-dosing. Definitely not NZT,looks promising for our purposes.

If you look at the other studies of GTS-21 they dosed three times a day. 

[crazepharmacist]

Looks like tht has this in stock now. Who will be the fist guinea pigs?

Edited by crazepharmacist, 06 February 2015 - 04:34 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

I've been using nicotine and its more important metabolite cotinine for helping me focus on tasks and also treating depression. The research behind cotinine is pretty well documented. However, given the human studies on GTS-21 and its more potent metabolite 4-OH-GTS-21, I am compelled to try this compound again at the doses suggested in the papers referenced in the OP.

 

 

[saj87]

I've been using nicotine and its more important metabolite cotinine for helping me focus on tasks and also treating depression. The research behind cotinine is pretty well documented. However, given the human studies on GTS-21 and its more potent metabolite 4-OH-GTS-21, I am compelled to try this compound again at the doses suggested in the papers referenced in the OP.

 

Product seems to be for purchase since a while, since you were the one starting this, did you tried it? If so, what about the results? If not, why not?

[jack black]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I feel I should ask anyway bc I think it might be relevant. What is the marginal benefit of a nicotinic alpha-7 agonist over nicotine itself? ...

Nicotine is a dirty nootropic. It has too many effects apart from the nootropic effects. What the a7n-PAM's or agonists do is target a specific receptor subunit to try and increase cognitive capabilities. I've tried WAY-317,538 at least; but, did not notice prominent nootropic effects. The other nicotinic agonist mentioned in the xks thread did not show strong nootropic effects in the studies I've read. GTS-21 is to the best of my knowledge the best nootropic that is available at the moment.

Along the same lines, oranges, apples and raspberries are "dirty" vitamins, butter is "dirty" margarine, steak is "dirty" proteins and carnitine, old-fashioned Christmas trees are "dirty" Chinese plastic trees, women are "dirty" blowup sex dolls, humans are "dirty" androids, real world is a "dirty" Matrix.

This must be the funniest post in the entire forum, LOL.

[franbird]

https://newmind.com/gts-21.html

[Reformed-Redan]

I'm conducting a group buy for this. 

 

Here is the quote from sending numerous quote requests on Alibaba:

 

 

 

I want to do a 6 person group buy to amortize the cost, as I don't need a whole kg and don't have enough money for 1kg. A 6-way spit myself included would cost 450. With shipping and handling, that's 500 for 166 grams of GTS-21.

 

Does that sound fair?

 

I can collect funds and place the order myself or if anyone else has some track record here, then they can collect funds and receive the package for redistribution,

 

Is anyone interested?

 

 

Edited by Reformed-Redan, 28 March 2019 - 02:12 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

I attached the paper that had the graphs in the OP.

 

Feel free to browse it at your convenience. 

 

Thanks.

Attached Files

•  kitagawa2002.pdf   151.58KB   12 downloads

[franbird]

Could you do it with more people? I don't need 166g

[Reformed-Redan]

Could you do it with more people? I don't need 166g

Not that many seem to be interested. If you want 10 people would be ideal. 

 

300 USD for 100g each, is not a bad deal.

[ceridwen]

Sounds interesting

[Reformed-Redan]

I mean you guys can PM me. 

 

I have my funds ready. 

 

Hope this one doesn't die off into oblivion.

[franbird]

I should be able to join in

[megatron]

Did you guys ever get around to try it?

[gamesguru]

everyone on reddit who swore by this has now deleted their accounts.

safe to assume placebo hype yet?

[ibtisam_midlet]

its like nicotine

last days i was able to overcome nicotine tolerance with shy high doses, i start thinking that nicotine is good for daily dosing.

[DaveX]

Things which influence the nicotine receptors in a way which is usually presented as positive (like reversing desensitization) include: Theanine, Melissa Officinalis (Lemon Balm), Piracetam...

Edited by DaveX, 27 March 2020 - 06:07 PM.

[Ben]

its like nicotine

last days i was able to overcome nicotine tolerance with shy high doses, i start thinking that nicotine is good for daily dosing.

 

So you actually tried it? Could you go into more detail on its effects? 

[Daniel Cooper]

everyone on reddit who swore by this has now deleted their accounts.

safe to assume placebo hype yet?

 

It is interesting that in 2014 this was the "only nootropic worth taking" and now six years later no one's heard of it.

[ibtisam_midlet]

So you actually tried it? Could you go into more detail on its effects? 

no i have not tried it, but i say that because she are typical both the α4β2 and α7 subtypes agonist

>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTS-21

>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

 

otherwise my nicotine tolerance has been developed for the new sky high doses, so i would not recommend daily dosing anymore