65 replies to this topic

[medievil]

Da agonist withdrawal is extremely mild and lats 2 weeks max.

But not for 19% of the people who develop DAWS

Have you got study showing how bad the is and for how long?

Memantine upregulates D2 and D3 with da agonists down regulate so it's an easily fixable problem anyway.

[Flex]

Look at my post #15

http://www.longecity...ts/#entry680638

 

[medievil]

Parkinson have severely impaired d2 and d3 activation allready, you can't extrapolate that risk of withdrawal to normal ppl, to get the same effects you'd have to downregulate da so much you risk cause Parkinson and then extra downregulate on top.

But it's not that simple, da is only a little part of parkinson, sero releases completely cure Parkinson monkeys and mdma cured Parkinson while patients while on it several anecdotes say.

I wish I knew some Parkinson patients, I'm optimistic I can send them in long term remission

[Flex]

If I remeber correctly, The guys in the forums ( see#15) did it recreationaly and got those perresistent withdrawal symptoms

[medievil]

If I remeber correctly, The guys in the forums ( see#15) did it recreationaly and got those perresistent withdrawal symptoms

Never had issues with ropi but I only combine it with amphetamine, you'd need a much lower dose, the sxual effect is a shit load better, then sex really feels good and you turn so dirty you just ran your girlfriends as open haha, on their own the effects are way milder and you need massive doses causing selective downregulate, colored activation of other da receptors have a counter adjustive effect on da sensivity.

[Area-1255]

At the same time, some dopaminergics can make OCD worse

If you relate to shizoprenia amphetamine can be the cure for social anxiety and ocd, like in my case, if you don't they make it worse and Benzos name usually the most effective for sa, and anti glutaminergics for ocd.

Bromocriptine (a dopamine AGONIST) is actually being studied to treat refractory/resistant OCD.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7929024

http://bit.ly/1qN4N6i

[medievil]

Hehe awesome, I've been saying amp works for ocd, there's a study showing beneficial effects with cafeine, good to see a study on da agonists too.

That will be in support of my opposite then recommended interventions I promate, as an example I take a 5ht2a agonist, da agonist, amphetamine, cannabis for shizoprenia with a few things that abolish the negative effects, my interventions for many things are the complete opposite what docs would do, like sometimes they give antipsychotics for ocd.

[Area-1255]

Hehe awesome, I've been saying amp works for ocd, there's a study showing beneficial effects with cafeine, good to see a study on da agonists too.

That will be in support of my opposite then recommended interventions I promate, as an example I take a 5ht2a agonist, da agonist, amphetamine, cannabis for shizoprenia with a few things that abolish the negative effects, my interventions for many things are the complete opposite what docs would do, like sometimes they give antipsychotics for ocd.

Caffeine can treat some cases of OCD but on withdrawal it tends to get worse.

200mg of Caffeine increases GABA - anything above 300 decreases it.

[drg]

Tried pramipexole 1 time @ 1mg... never again...

 

It felt like the flu:

headache, nausea, didn't feel like eating

made me tired and I slept the day away but didn't feel rested

 

 

[Area-1255]

Tried pramipexole 1 time @ 1mg... never again...

 

It felt like the flu:

headache, nausea, didn't feel like eating

made me tired and I slept the day away but didn't feel rested

That's exactly what I said at that dose xD "never again" - i can take extra anti nausea pills but it doesn't stop the severe lethargy, fatigue and hypotension caused by that dose...it's the best way to immediately get a glimpse of what adrenal fatigue feels like. lol

Best keep it at 0.25-0.50 mg range..even 0.50 bothers me...i barely ever go above 0.25

[Area-1255]

Hehe awesome, I've been saying amp works for ocd, there's a study showing beneficial effects with cafeine, good to see a study on da agonists too.

That will be in support of my opposite then recommended interventions I promate, as an example I take a 5ht2a agonist, da agonist, amphetamine, cannabis for shizoprenia with a few things that abolish the negative effects, my interventions for many things are the complete opposite what docs would do, like sometimes they give antipsychotics for ocd.

Antipyschotics typically make OCD worse, mainly because glutamate shoots through the roof on them, and usually norepinephrine too....some would argue the antihistamine property would help this or over ride it..but for many it doesn't....by blocking alpha -1 adrenergic, and dopamine d2 receptors...you may in theory boost dopamine but you are also causing a cascading glutamate release...and usually lowering GABA as well...plus histamine h1 receptors, though they are technically stimulating...are also needed for proper reward circuitry and yet getting GABA

[drg]

That's exactly what I said at that dose xD "never again" - i can take extra anti nausea pills but it doesn't stop the severe lethargy, fatigue and hypotension caused by that dose...it's the best way to immediately get a glimpse of what adrenal fatigue feels like. lol

Best keep it at 0.25-0.50 mg range..even 0.50 bothers me...i barely ever go above 0.25

 

Hmm If I get the nerve I will try it at that lower dose. :S 

TBH I though I was underballing the dose a bit considering it was studied at 1.7mg/d for bipolar depression.

 

Thx though.

[Area-1255]

Hehe awesome, I've been saying amp works for ocd, there's a study showing beneficial effects with cafeine, good to see a study on da agonists too.

That will be in support of my opposite then recommended interventions I promate, as an example I take a 5ht2a agonist, da agonist, amphetamine, cannabis for shizoprenia with a few things that abolish the negative effects, my interventions for many things are the complete opposite what docs would do, like sometimes they give antipsychotics for ocd.

Antipsychotics typically make OCD worse - by antagonizing/blocking the dopamine D2 receptors and alpha-1-receptors; you would be causing a cascading glutamate release...even though by blocking the d2 autoreceptors you would increase dopamine, this effect is likely to not matter because by both of these pathways there is a glutamate increase....most will say the anti histamine property of AP's would over ride..but i disagree , especially because histamine h1 receptors are criticial for normal GABA function, and for stimulating the feelings of curiosity, and desire for reward..they are also needed for endorphin release.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9007531

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8917588

 

 

 

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1996 Nov 12;93(23):13316-20.

Impaired locomotor activity and exploratory behavior in mice lacking histamine H1 receptors.

Inoue I1, Yanai K, Kitamura D, Taniuchi I, Kobayashi T, Niimura K, Watanabe T, Watanabe T.

Author information

 

Abstract

From pharmacological studies using histamine antagonists and agonists, it has been demonstrated that histamine modulates many physiological functions of the hypothalamus, such as arousal state, locomotor activity, feeding, and drinking. Three kinds of receptors (H1, H2, and H3) mediate these actions. To define the contribution of the histamine H1 receptors (H1R) to behavior, mutant mice lacking the H1R were generated by homologous recombination. In brains of homozygous mutant mice, no specific binding of [3H]pyrilamine was seen. [3H]Doxepin has two saturable binding sites with higher and lower affinities in brains of wild-type mice, but H1R-deficient mice showed only the weak labeling of [3H]doxepin that corresponds to lower-affinity binding sites. Mutant mice develop normally, but absence of H1R significantly increased the ratio of ambulation during the light period to the total ambulation for 24 hr in an accustomed environment. In addition, mutant mice significantly reduced exploratory behavior of ambulation and rearings in a new environment. These results indicate that through H1R, histamine is involved in circadian rhythm of locomotor activity and exploratory behavior as a neurotransmitter.

 

 

[medievil]

More glutamate would improve OCD, depending on the person. in case its a negative shizo related symption,

 

Tried pramipexole 1 time @ 1mg... never again...

 

It felt like the flu:

headache, nausea, didn't feel like eating

made me tired and I slept the day away but didn't feel rested

That's exactly what I said at that dose xD "never again" - i can take extra anti nausea pills but it doesn't stop the severe lethargy, fatigue and hypotension caused by that dose...it's the best way to immediately get a glimpse of what adrenal fatigue feels like. lol

Best keep it at 0.25-0.50 mg range..even 0.50 bothers me...i barely ever go above 0.25

 

Togheter with amisulpiride a high dose works fine. Just a dose that only blocks autoreceptors its extremely strong periphally.

[Area-1255]

More glutamate would improve OCD, depending on the person. in case its a negative shizo related symption,

 

Tried pramipexole 1 time @ 1mg... never again...

 

It felt like the flu:

headache, nausea, didn't feel like eating

made me tired and I slept the day away but didn't feel rested

That's exactly what I said at that dose xD "never again" - i can take extra anti nausea pills but it doesn't stop the severe lethargy, fatigue and hypotension caused by that dose...it's the best way to immediately get a glimpse of what adrenal fatigue feels like. lol

Best keep it at 0.25-0.50 mg range..even 0.50 bothers me...i barely ever go above 0.25

 

Togheter with amisulpiride a high dose works fine. Just a dose that only blocks autoreceptors its extremely strong periphally.

 

 

Well ami might blunt some of the CNS depression caused by dopaminergics, but there is a fine line as well and some are more sensitive to autoreceptor blockade..also should be noted that amisulpride is also a 5-ht7 serotonin antagonist...and one of the most potent ones.

[forexworld12]

 

If you want to become a gay sex addict that gambles all his money away then go right ahead you use dopamine agonists!

 

lol but its true. Here the reference:

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=17839255

 

5ht2a blockade "could" cause nonselective sexual preference towards both genders.

You are not actually Gay, but rather BIsexual.

Because it disinhibits dopamine in a certain brain area

 

I´m too lazy and busy to find the reference of this.

If I dont forget it, I will post it afterwards.

 

Holy shit .... is that like persistent or that gay shit goes away after quitting the drug ?

I had this in my list for alleviating my PSSD dead libido .. It's nice if it makes people like Anal or dirty sex but turning gay/bisexual is Too much 

Edited by forexworld12, 29 October 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[Area-1255]

 

 

If you want to become a gay sex addict that gambles all his money away then go right ahead you use dopamine agonists!

 

lol but its true. Here the reference:

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=17839255

 

5ht2a blockade "could" cause nonselective sexual preference towards both genders.

You are not actually Gay, but rather BIsexual.

Because it disinhibits dopamine in a certain brain area

 

I´m too lazy and busy to find the reference of this.

If I dont forget it, I will post it afterwards.

 

Holy shit .... is that like persistent or that gay shit goes away after quitting the drug ?

I had this in my list for alleviating my PSSD dead libido .. It's nice if it makes people like Anal or dirty sex but turning gay/bisexual is Too much 

 

Forexworld12, I have never heard something so dumb and unfounded in my life from this guy, there is no evidence that dopaminergics / agonists would cause homosexuality or inexclusive sexual preference..in fact..one of the most potent dopamine agonists around, so strong that it was the only one considered for erectile dysfunction - was explored and found as useful for the TREATMENT of homosexuality...so quite the opposite, if any thing...it's dopamine that may help normalize the human male sexual preference....

 

http://bjp.rcpsych.o...5/523/723.short

http://www.health24....Client-20120721

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Apomorphine

[forexworld12]

 

 

 

If you want to become a gay sex addict that gambles all his money away then go right ahead you use dopamine agonists!

 

lol but its true. Here the reference:

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=17839255

 

5ht2a blockade "could" cause nonselective sexual preference towards both genders.

You are not actually Gay, but rather BIsexual.

Because it disinhibits dopamine in a certain brain area

 

I´m too lazy and busy to find the reference of this.

If I dont forget it, I will post it afterwards.

 

Holy shit .... is that like persistent or that gay shit goes away after quitting the drug ?

I had this in my list for alleviating my PSSD dead libido .. It's nice if it makes people like Anal or dirty sex but turning gay/bisexual is Too much 

 

Forexworld12, I have never heard something so dumb and unfounded in my life from this guy, there is no evidence that dopaminergics / agonists would cause homosexuality or inexclusive sexual preference..in fact..one of the most potent dopamine agonists around, so strong that it was the only one considered for erectile dysfunction - was explored and found as useful for the TREATMENT of homosexuality...so quite the opposite, if any thing...it's dopamine that may help normalize the human male sexual preference....

 

http://bjp.rcpsych.o...5/523/723.short

http://www.health24....Client-20120721

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Apomorphine

 

Thanks area , you have always been a great help   .BTW shilajit is not doing anything until now .. how many Mg should I take to have the serotonin blocking and ahnedonia/pssd improving effect?

I have had my Hormone levels checked  will let you know the reports soon... I imagine something is messed up... hot flashes are increasing day by day !

Edited by forexworld12, 29 October 2014 - 01:36 PM.

[Rottingman]

Zoloft is said to raise dopamine levels  slightly. Also has less side's then the other ssri's in my opinion.

Edited by Rottingman, 29 October 2014 - 02:45 PM.

[rebecca123]

I recently tried megadoses of mucuna pruriens (300 mg, 20% l-dopa) and l-tyrosine. In total I guess I consumed 900 mg of l-dopa and 15 gram of l-tyrosine at one day but it did not do a thing for my depression, in fact I think it made me more dysphoric

[Area-1255]

I recently tried megadoses of mucuna pruriens (300 mg, 20% l-dopa) and l-tyrosine. In total I guess I consumed 900 mg of l-dopa and 15 gram of l-tyrosine at one day but it did not do a thing for my depression, in fact I think it made me more dysphoric

You might have too much noradrenaline conversion - which I find is incredibly common in dysphoria/anhedonia..reason is because noradrenaline can also evoke the release of serotonin and beta-endorphin, both of which are emotionally blunting...

At the same time, too little norepinephrine can also be emotionally blunting, but more apparent with apathy and lethargy as well as stimulant dependence, whereas high norepinephrine may draw users to alcohol, GHB, and a whole host of other addictions..

 

 

 

 

If you want to become a gay sex addict that gambles all his money away then go right ahead you use dopamine agonists!

 

lol but its true. Here the reference:

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=17839255

 

5ht2a blockade "could" cause nonselective sexual preference towards both genders.

You are not actually Gay, but rather BIsexual.

Because it disinhibits dopamine in a certain brain area

 

I´m too lazy and busy to find the reference of this.

If I dont forget it, I will post it afterwards.

 

Holy shit .... is that like persistent or that gay shit goes away after quitting the drug ?

I had this in my list for alleviating my PSSD dead libido .. It's nice if it makes people like Anal or dirty sex but turning gay/bisexual is Too much 

 

Forexworld12, I have never heard something so dumb and unfounded in my life from this guy, there is no evidence that dopaminergics / agonists would cause homosexuality or inexclusive sexual preference..in fact..one of the most potent dopamine agonists around, so strong that it was the only one considered for erectile dysfunction - was explored and found as useful for the TREATMENT of homosexuality...so quite the opposite, if any thing...it's dopamine that may help normalize the human male sexual preference....

 

http://bjp.rcpsych.o...5/523/723.short

http://www.health24....Client-20120721

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Apomorphine

 

Thanks area , you have always been a great help   .BTW shilajit is not doing anything until now .. how many Mg should I take to have the serotonin blocking and ahnedonia/pssd improving effect?

I have had my Hormone levels checked  will let you know the reports soon... I imagine something is messed up... hot flashes are increasing day by day !

 

How much are you taking right now? Send me a pm with your regimen/stack, it's been giving me an issue on the other forum.

[Rottingman]

Area-1255 what would you recommend to someone with low norepinephrine  levels? I have depression/lethargy as well as stimulant dependence? Right now i'm taking 20 mg of lexapro which helps the serotonin aspect of my depression a little bit but i'm still not feeling very good. I've also been exercising regularly.  

[Area-1255]

Area-1255 what would you recommend to someone with low norepinephrine  levels? I have depression/lethargy as well as stimulant dependence? Right now i'm taking 20 mg of lexapro which helps the serotonin aspect of my depression a little bit but i'm still not feeling very good. I've also been exercising regularly.  

Norepinephrine is based off of several factors, I plan to write an article about it soon. 

 

Inverse/Negative Central Regulators Would Be

-----------------------------------------------------------------

-Opiates, beta-endorphin.

-Alpha-2-receptors (expression is regulated by T3, AND testosterone;estrogen ratio)

-Histamine H(3) Receptor activation. 

-Serotonin (to an extent, depending on the receptor)

-Acetylcholine ; only through muscarinics

-GABA; depends, but usually GABA-B is more potent in this regard.

-Prolactin (is a factor in converting glutamate to GABA)

-MAO enzymes and other breakdown enzymes, as well as NET and VMAT2

 

Norepinephrine Agonists, Positive Modulators, Endogenous

-Some* Androgens, though they tend to balance it out by also raising GABA, DHT levels being high tends to avert stimulant addiction.

-Estrogen; stimulates dopamine beta-hydroxylase, and also affects other enzymes such as PDE's.

-Thyroid hormone and T3 in particular.

-Calcium channels. 

-Vitamin C, Copper (stimulates dopamine beta hydroxylase)

-L-Tyrosine

 

 

There's a whole lotta other ones, but those are the main ones..you have to FIGURE OUT WHY you have low norepinephrine in the first place to sort out this issue. 

 

Ask/Check ...do you have?

 

-Hypothyroidism (the most common cause next to copper deficiency)

 

-Copper deficiency, low hair copper, or are using massive zinc supplements

 

-Low Androgen levels, low DHT, past finasteride/propecia use, past use of prostate supplements, or a diagnosed androgen deficiency, insufficiency syndrome...klinefelter's, etc  MAPPING THE X CHROMOSOMES; getting a kereotype may help and also looking in blood work for low DHT (DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE) levels.

 

-A history of people with tall build in your family, high height; pacific / islander roots, origins, or other family origin that is known to have aromatase deficiency or other disorders that result in said height growth from a genetic perspective..this is relevant because aromatase deficiency may lead to abnormal CNS issues..but surely you would know this right? NOTE: This is only relevant if you have this disorder, or are taking high doses of anti estrogen DRUGS in particular, suicide aromatase inhibitors..however, USUALLY if your androgen levels like DHT are high - it should* block or avert the energy depleting effects of E2 DEFICIENCY...unless of course your nitric oxide levels are shot..which certainly can happen with low E2, PARTICULARLY  in individuals that aren't eating enough dietary nitrates and NOS stimulators.

 

 

-Do you take calcium channel blockers, beta blockers, stomach acid pills, or any other pills that may temporary re-allocate or disrupt the release of norepinephrine?

 

-Do you have a METHYLATION disorder, are you undermethylated, have a history of seasonal allergies, high histamine levels, sneezing in the sunlight etc? 

 

 

-Do you take dopaminergics at high doses? If this is the only factor on your list, and you know for sure the others are irrelevant, then you may want to lower your dopaminergic dose OR add a dopamine d1 agonist such as muira puama extract which should balance the effects out!

Edited by Area-1255, 29 October 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[rebecca123]

 

You might have too much noradrenaline conversion - which I find is incredibly common in dysphoria/anhedonia..reason is because noradrenaline can also evoke the release of serotonin and beta-endorphin, both of which are emotionally blunting...

At the same time, too little norepinephrine can also be emotionally blunting, but more apparent with apathy and lethargy as well as stimulant dependence, whereas high norepinephrine may draw users to alcohol, GHB, and a whole host of other addictions.. 

 

 

Wow, thanks for your in-depth reply, I do get extremely jittery from coffee and ritalin, so I guess that can be true, although I do not get that from amphetamine so I don't know. 

Edited by rebecca123, 29 October 2014 - 05:58 PM.

[Area-1255]

 

 

You might have too much noradrenaline conversion - which I find is incredibly common in dysphoria/anhedonia..reason is because noradrenaline can also evoke the release of serotonin and beta-endorphin, both of which are emotionally blunting...

At the same time, too little norepinephrine can also be emotionally blunting, but more apparent with apathy and lethargy as well as stimulant dependence, whereas high norepinephrine may draw users to alcohol, GHB, and a whole host of other addictions.. 

 

 

Wow, thanks for your in-depth reply, I do get extremely jittery from coffee and ritalin, so I guess that can be true, although I do not get that from 'regular' amphetamine so I don't know. 

 

Well ritalin is more dopamine selective, while adderrall and meth amphetamine based substances tend to have more of an effect on norepinephrine, histamine, glutamate and all kinds of others...

 

 

You might have too much noradrenaline conversion - which I find is incredibly common in dysphoria/anhedonia..reason is because noradrenaline can also evoke the release of serotonin and beta-endorphin, both of which are emotionally blunting...

At the same time, too little norepinephrine can also be emotionally blunting, but more apparent with apathy and lethargy as well as stimulant dependence, whereas high norepinephrine may draw users to alcohol, GHB, and a whole host of other addictions.. 

 

 

Wow, thanks for your in-depth reply, I do get extremely jittery from coffee and ritalin, so I guess that can be true, although I do not get that from 'regular' amphetamine so I don't know. 

 

Well ritalin is more dopamine selective, while adderrall and meth amphetamine based substances tend to have more of an effect on norepinephrine, histamine, glutamate and all kinds of others...

[zaratoo]

Old thread, but seems to be the most recent one on Pramipexole. So I hope to get some advice here.

 

I believe I need to to correct my DA system. Really look forward to try Rasa-/Selegiline, but they need to be ordered overseas, so time and shipping cost and I won't order from ADC less, than for $100 (different pharmaceuticals). So I guess I'll do it, but indefinitely later..

 

On the other hand, I can get some Mirapex from local pharmacy right away for ~$5. Other DAergics seem to be less obtainable. 

I was going to take quater of 0,25mg tab (=62,5mcg) od early morning (4-5am). So I use sleepiness as a benefit. Also the later rebound alert effect (often complaint when taken at night) fits here well.

 

So, low dose (I believe it is) once daily. Does this make any sense?

 

[Area-1255]

Old thread, but seems to be the most recent one on Pramipexole. So I hope to get some advice here.

 

I believe I need to to correct my DA system. Really look forward to try Rasa-/Selegiline, but they need to be ordered overseas, so time and shipping cost and I won't order from ADC less, than for $100 (different pharmaceuticals). So I guess I'll do it, but indefinitely later..

 

On the other hand, I can get some Mirapex from local pharmacy right away for ~$5. Other DAergics seem to be less obtainable. 

I was going to take quater of 0,25mg tab (=62,5mcg) od early morning (4-5am). So I use sleepiness as a benefit. Also the later rebound alert effect (often complaint when taken at night) fits here well.

 

So, low dose (I believe it is) once daily. Does this make any sense?

Prami and requip are the best drugs of that class, but..use them with an anti-nausea drug in the serotonin antagonist class as well as forskolin and caffeine during the day to counteract CNS depressant effects. They are beautiful if you know how to use them - but in most cases it is un-necessary to go above 0.25 mg. Caber should ONLY be used in a severe prolactin issue. The first two can be used as anti-depressants or for improved motivation / focus. The libidogenic effects can be well-put if you are in good hormonal shape and don't have any estrogen issues.

[zaratoo]

As I mentioned, I thought about only 0,0625mg od. Is this effective protocol? Is this dose and time of action enough/proper? Primal aim is downregulation of autoreceptors as I understand it..

[Area-1255]

As I mentioned, I thought about only 0,0625mg od. Is this effective protocol? Is this dose and time of action enough/proper? Primal aim is downregulation of autoreceptors as I understand it..

The problem is you will downregulate the post-synaptic receptors as well. That's why no one ever uses them for that purpose.

[zaratoo]

I saw somewhere that certain dose act on pre-synaptic receptors only. Thought it was about 50mcg. That's why I ask all the time if I choose the dose wise and is once daily enough.

Full-blown DA agonism could be fun probably, but I don't want to be dependent on drug, nor to risk to ruin such an important and frgile system as DA, nor to get all the not-so-fun sides..