153 replies to this topic

[Daniel Cooper]

 

There is of course also alagebrium, it failed in the second human study, though achieved results in the first. I'm wondering if there was something different in the preparation or if it just comes down to genetics. Perhaps we can find something that would enable the mechanism that occurred where alagebrium worked?

 

 

If you're looking to reverse arterial plaques, then the question is - Are AGEs a significant component of arterial plaques?

 

There is less information on this question than you might hope.  I found one journal article that said that AGEs are a component of plaques, but the impression I got is that they weren't a significant component.  But, that was some reading between the lines of a study who's primary focus wasn't this question.

 

Now, alagebrium will improve arterial elasticity which can improve blood pressure, which is a risk factor for the formation of new plaques, so there is that.

 

I have a bottle of alagebrium on deck ready to experiment with.  I've just got other things in line first.

 

 

 

I'm going to modify my statement.  It looked like there is decent evidence that AGEs play a role in the formation of arterial plaques, particularly in patients suffering from diabetes mellitus.  Whether that extrapolates to the wider population, who knows?  Maybe .... probably?

 

I'm going to keep reading and post some of the better studies later on.  I might be more interested in testing out my alagebrium.

 

BTW - what those of us interested in trying out various plaque reversal schemes need is a decent way to check the status of our plaques.  Cardiac calcium scores give us part of the picture, at a radiation does of 2 ~ 3 mSv, about a years worth of background radiation.  I wouldn't feel too bad having one of those a year for a couple of years.  Unfortunately, you're only looking at calcified plaques, soft plaques don't show up.

 

A CT Angiogram will show soft plaques, but you're looking at about 12 mSv of radiation, about 4x the normal background radiation you receive in year.  I would not want to repeat those very often.  Not to mention that your insurance isn't going to pay to repeat them and they are relatively expensive.

 

It seems to me like a cardiac MRI would be the ticket, except they are relatively expensive and I'm not sure if their resolution is sufficient to show the sort of detail we would need.  Anyone with any knowledge in this area?

 

Without some method of assessing plaque status, we're just trying things while groping in the dark.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 18 April 2016 - 07:36 PM.

[Logjam]

It might also explain why the diabetics were the ones who showed improvement via the TACT EDTA study.  Think about it.  Their plaque is calcified more than others'.  And it's on the exposed part of the artery, not inside a layer of muscle and cholesterol and macrophage.

 

I don't know why people in the medical profession refuse to admit EDTA _might_ do something.  I mean it might not, but it's pretty obvious it removes calcium in a petri dish. You can watch it happen.

 

 

 

There is of course also alagebrium, it failed in the second human study, though achieved results in the first. I'm wondering if there was something different in the preparation or if it just comes down to genetics. Perhaps we can find something that would enable the mechanism that occurred where alagebrium worked?

 

 

If you're looking to reverse arterial plaques, then the question is - Are AGEs a significant component of arterial plaques?

 

There is less information on this question than you might hope.  I found one journal article that said that AGEs are a component of plaques, but the impression I got is that they weren't a significant component.  But, that was some reading between the lines of a study who's primary focus wasn't this question.

 

Now, alagebrium will improve arterial elasticity which can improve blood pressure, which is a risk factor for the formation of new plaques, so there is that.

 

I have a bottle of alagebrium on deck ready to experiment with.  I've just got other things in line first.

 

 

 

I'm going to modify my statement.  It looked like there is decent evidence that AGEs play a role in the formation of arterial plaques, particularly in patients suffering from diabetes mellitus.  Whether that extrapolates to the wider population, who knows?  Maybe .... probably?

 

I'm going to keep reading and post some of the better studies later on.  I might be more interested in testing out my alagebrium.

 

BTW - what those of us interested in trying out various plaque reversal schemes need is a decent way to check the status of our plaques.  Cardiac calcium scores give us part of the picture, at a radiation does of 2 ~ 3 mSv, about a years worth of background radiation.  I wouldn't feel too bad having one of those a year for a couple of years.  Unfortunately, you're only looking at calcified plaques, soft plaques don't show up.

 

A CT Angiogram will show soft plaques, but you're looking at about 12 mSv of radiation, about 4x the normal background radiation you receive in year.  I would not want to repeat those very often.  Not to mention that your insurance isn't going to pay to repeat them and they are relatively expensive.

 

It seems to me like a cardiac MRI would be the ticket, except they are relatively expensive and I'm not sure if their resolution is sufficient to show the sort of detail we would need.  Anyone with any knowledge in this area?

 

Without some method of assessing plaque status, we're just trying things while groping in the dark.

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

 

It might also explain why the diabetics were the ones who showed improvement via the TACT EDTA study.  Think about it.  Their plaque is calcified more than others'.  And it's on the exposed part of the artery, not inside a layer of muscle and cholesterol and macrophage.

 

I don't know why people in the medical profession refuse to admit EDTA _might_ do something.  I mean it might not, but it's pretty obvious it removes calcium in a petri dish. You can watch it happen.

 

 

 

I'm getting back to looking at this issue after some recent distractions.

 

Logjam - are you aware of an EDTA protocol that can be done at home with some reasonable evidence behind it?  And are there any significant side effects of using EDTA? 

[YOLF]

 

 

It might also explain why the diabetics were the ones who showed improvement via the TACT EDTA study.  Think about it.  Their plaque is calcified more than others'.  And it's on the exposed part of the artery, not inside a layer of muscle and cholesterol and macrophage.

 

I don't know why people in the medical profession refuse to admit EDTA _might_ do something.  I mean it might not, but it's pretty obvious it removes calcium in a petri dish. You can watch it happen.

 

 

 

I'm getting back to looking at this issue after some recent distractions.

 

Logjam - are you aware of an EDTA protocol that can be done at home with some reasonable evidence behind it?  And are there any significant side effects of using EDTA? 

 

I don't remember what they are, but a little EDTA might be ok... Actually, it can cause internal bleeding, esp. in the GI tract. Small amounts over time might be a better way to go... they put the stuff in energy drinks in very minute quantities... I've noticed it also causes transient cognitive improvements (mild) the first few times you use about 25mg. I definitely wouldn't go using it as a nootropic. Might increase the effectiveness of the Alagebrium. I'm also thinking the improvement of arterial plaques in rodents that isn't seen in humans is due to the age of the patients and their slower metabolisms. Can you take the Alagebrium with TSH? Gotu Kola? OSLT? 

 

Also isn't cardiovascular sonography supposed to be able to detect plaques? I thought the diagnostic capacities of the technology was jumping in leaps and bounds?

[Daniel Cooper]

Been awhile since anyone's posted in this thread.  Any new developments out there or on the horizon?  Anyone working on a personal plaque reduction program that they have some evidence of working?

 

 

 

[Darryl]

Just an remarkable addenda to the gut microbiota story. it's not Drano-like, but as I mentioned upthread, the last thing we want is anything that might irritate or inflame the fibrous cap of plaques.

 

Li et al, 2016. Akkermansia muciniphila protects against atherosclerosis by preventing metabolic endotoxemia-induced inflammation in Apoe-/- mice. Circulation, pp.CIRCULATIONAHA-115.

Apoe^-/- mice on normal chow diet or Western diet were treated with A. muciniphila by daily oral gavage for eight weeks, followed by histological evaluations of atherosclerotic lesion in aorta. Real-time PCR analysis demonstrated that the fecal abundance of A. muciniphila was significantly reduced by Western diet. Replenishment with A. muciniphila reversed Western diet-induced exacerbation of atherosclerotic lesion formation without affecting hypercholesterolemia. A. muciniphila prevented Western diet-induced inflammation in both circulation and local atherosclerotic lesion, as evidenced by reduced macrophage infiltration and expression of proinflammatory cytokines and chemokines. These changes were accompanied by a marked attenuation in metabolic endotoxemia. A. muciniphila-mediated reduction in circulating endotoxin level could be attributed to induction of intestinal expression of the tight junction proteins (ZO-1 and occludin), thereby reversing Western diet-induced increases in gut permeability. Chronic infusion of endotoxin to Apoe^-/- mice reversed the protective effect of A. muciniphila against atherosclerosis.

 

Akkermansia has been getting a lot of attention lately, and may underlie many of the benefits of poorly absorbed polyphenols and fermentable fiber on disease risk. A selection from the 38 papers with "akkermansia" in the title since 2015.

 

Dao et al, 2016. Akkermansia muciniphila and improved metabolic health during a dietary intervention in obesity: relationship with gut microbiome richness and ecology. Gut, 65(3), pp.426-436.

Shen et al, 2016. Low-density lipoprotein receptor signaling mediates the triglyceride-lowering Action of Akkermansia muciniphila in genetic-induced hyperlipidemia. Arteriosclerosis, thrombosis, and vascular biology, pp.ATVBAHA-116.

Zhang et al, 2016. Caffeic acid ameliorates colitis in association with increased Akkermansia population in the gut microbiota of mice. Oncotarget.

Monk et al, 2016. Navy bean supplementation in obesity increases Akkermansia muciniphila abundance and attenuates obesity related impairments in gut barrier function. The FASEB Journal, 30(1 Supplement), pp.421-2.

Anhê et al, 2015. A polyphenol-rich cranberry extract protects from diet-induced obesity, insulin resistance and intestinal inflammation in association with increased Akkermansia spp. population in the gut microbiota of mice. Gut, 64(6), pp.872-883.

Roopchand et al, 2015. Dietary polyphenols promote growth of the gut bacterium Akkermansia muciniphila and attenuate high-fat diet–induced metabolic syndrome. Diabetes, 64(8), pp.2847-2858.

Reunanen et al, 2015. Akkermansia muciniphila adheres to enterocytes and strengthens the integrity of the epithelial cell layer. Applied and environmental microbiology, 81(11), pp.3655-3662.

Edited by Darryl, 21 September 2016 - 01:32 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

That's good info Darryl.

 

 

Apparently there are Akkermansia muciniphila supplements out there.   How much makes it intact to the gut would be the issue.  That mouse study used gavage which probably worked pretty well.  If you take enough of it you'd hope some of it would make it to the lower intestine.  The only way to be sure would be to do a before and after fecal test I suppose.

 

I may try this.

 

 

[Darryl]

If there's one fact from the microbiota literature you should know, its that probiotic supplements of bacterial strains don't compete for niches with established ones. They're detectable in feces, and help with post-antibiotic diarrhea, but largely disappear when the probiotic is discontinued.

 

What does change the gut microbiota markedly is habitual diet. Fermentable fiber (beans, bulbs and bran) and resistant starch feeds beneficial strains, they produce short chain fatty acids, and SCFAs increase mucin production and Akkermansia levels. Food polyphenols, mistakenly characterized as antioxidants, are also metabolized by the gut microbiota, but may exert more important effects by culling pathogens not adapted to a high polyphenol environment.

 

You most likely already have Akkermansia. Feed it.

[APBT]

Eat foods high in a type of fiber called oligofructose to feed the Akkermansia in your gut. These foods include garlic, onion and bananas.

FULL TEXT:  http://www.pnas.org/...10/22/9066.long

[aribadabar]

These foods include garlic, onion and bananas.

While these are sources of inulin and FOS , there are better ones (credit goes to Darryl):

 

 

          g/100 g  inulin  oligofructose

Chicory root         41.6  22.9

Jerusalem artichoke  18.0  13.5

Dandelion greens     13.5  10.8

Garlic               12.5   5.0

Leeks                 6.5   5.2

Onions                4.3   4.3

Onions (cooked)       3.0   3.0

Globe artichoke       4.4   0.4

Wheat bran            2.5   2.5

Asparagus             2.5   2.5

Wheat flour (baked)   2.4   2.4

Asparagus (boiled)    1.7   1.7

Barley (raw)          0.8   0.8

Rye (baked)           0.7   0.7

Banana                0.5   0.5

Barley (cooked)       0.2   0.2

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Linus Pauling therapy removes plaque deposits in both young and elderly people. Tested personally.

[Kalliste]

EDTA treatment looks pretty promising if it wasn't so damn difficult (setting up IV).

 

[Daniel Cooper]

Linus Pauling therapy removes plaque deposits in both young and elderly people. Tested personally.

 

When you tested it personally how did you confirm that you removed plaques?

[PeaceAndProsperity]

 

Linus Pauling therapy removes plaque deposits in both young and elderly people. Tested personally.

 

When you tested it personally how did you confirm that you removed plaques?

 

Blood pressure measured by cardiologist, which doesn't really "prove" that the plaque deposits are gone, but blood pressure stays down even months after cessation of using the supplements.

Why not give it a try if it's so cheap (bulk powders) and harmless? 

Linus Pauling did prove in test animals that almost all lipoprotein deposits were removed by the usage of the 3 supplements over a short period of time.

It's one of those idiotic things that clearly work but are universally rejected for some reason, and anyone (like practicing cardiologists) who accept that it works are immediately dismissed.

 

How am I ill informed, please explain yourself?

Edited by RatherBeUnknown, 27 September 2016 - 02:36 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

 

 

Linus Pauling therapy removes plaque deposits in both young and elderly people. Tested personally.

 

When you tested it personally how did you confirm that you removed plaques?

 

Blood pressure measured by cardiologist, which doesn't really "prove" that the plaque deposits are gone, but blood pressure stays down even months after cessation of using the supplements.

Why not give it a try if it's so cheap (bulk powders) and harmless? 

Linus Pauling did prove in test animals that almost all lipoprotein deposits were removed by the usage of the 3 supplements over a short period of time.

It's one of those idiotic things that clearly work but are universally rejected for some reason, and anyone (like practicing cardiologists) who accept that it works are immediately dismissed.

 

How am I ill informed, please explain yourself?

 

 

I did not give you the "ill informed" flag.  That was someone else.

 

Blood pressure isn't a reliable measure of arterial plaque loading.  A coronary calcium score before and after would be a decent proxy measure of arterial plaque.

 

My problem with high dose vitamin C is that we have some indication that taking high doses of non-targeted anti-oxidants may be pro cancerous.  So, your claim of it being harmless may not be correct.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

 

 

 

Linus Pauling therapy removes plaque deposits in both young and elderly people. Tested personally.

 

When you tested it personally how did you confirm that you removed plaques?

 

Blood pressure measured by cardiologist, which doesn't really "prove" that the plaque deposits are gone, but blood pressure stays down even months after cessation of using the supplements.

Why not give it a try if it's so cheap (bulk powders) and harmless? 

Linus Pauling did prove in test animals that almost all lipoprotein deposits were removed by the usage of the 3 supplements over a short period of time.

It's one of those idiotic things that clearly work but are universally rejected for some reason, and anyone (like practicing cardiologists) who accept that it works are immediately dismissed.

 

How am I ill informed, please explain yourself?

 

 

I did not give you the "ill informed" flag.  That was someone else.

 

Blood pressure isn't a reliable measure of arterial plaque loading.  A coronary calcium score before and after would be a decent proxy measure of arterial plaque.

 

My problem with high dose vitamin C is that we have some indication that taking high doses of non-targeted anti-oxidants may be pro cancerous.  So, your claim of it being harmless may not be correct.

 

You're thinking of calcified arteries, correct? I was referring to cholesterol/fat deposits in the arteries when I mentioned Linus Pauling therapy.

Calcified arteries are the most easy to reverse and those reversals have been documented time and time again. For example, warfarin-induced arterial calcification can be easily reversed with vitamin K2 supplementation. Vitamin D and A also help this process of removing calcium but vitamin D should only be taken in high amounts with K2 (as it depletes it). 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...Pubmed_RVDocSum

There are multiple studies on this but you'll have to find the rest via Google

[Daniel Cooper]

 

I did not give you the "ill informed" flag.  That was someone else.

 

Blood pressure isn't a reliable measure of arterial plaque loading.  A coronary calcium score before and after would be a decent proxy measure of arterial plaque.

 

My problem with high dose vitamin C is that we have some indication that taking high doses of non-targeted anti-oxidants may be pro cancerous.  So, your claim of it being harmless may not be correct.

 

You're thinking of calcified arteries, correct? I was referring to cholesterol/fat deposits in the arteries when I mentioned Linus Pauling therapy.

Calcified arteries are the most easy to reverse and those reversals have been documented time and time again. For example, warfarin-induced arterial calcification can be easily reversed with vitamin K2 supplementation. Vitamin D and A also help this process of removing calcium but vitamin D should only be taken in high amounts with K2 (as it depletes it). 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...Pubmed_RVDocSum

There are multiple studies on this but you'll have to find the rest via Google

 

 

Not at all. You'll notice that I called a coronary calcium score a "proxy" measurement.  CAC scores are a proxy for total plaques since on average about 20% of plaques are calcified.

 

Your rational is that blood pressure is a proxy for arterial plaque loading.  The problem is, it isn't.  You have utterly no evidence that your vitamin C regimen reduced your arterial plaque one iota.

 

And, you've glossed over the fact that high dose vitamin C regimen might actually increase rates of cancer.

[pamojja]

Your rational is that blood pressure is a proxy for arterial plaque loading.  The problem is, it isn't.  You have utterly no evidence that your vitamin C regimen reduced your arterial plaque one iota.

 
An other one being happy with Pauling's therapy.   Was diagnosed a PAD 8 years ago due to a 80% stenosis at my abdominal aorta. Main debilitating symptom was intermittent claudication with a pain-free walking distance of merely 3-400 meters, at worse. Was certified a 60% disability because of that, usually such a severe blockage only gets worse.
 
Medically was only offered statins and aspirin for life, and a chirurgical replacement of the whole piece of aorta with Y-shaped goretex-like tubes. After carefully considering the possible benefits with it's risk - I choose Pauling's Therapy instead, and haven't regretted even for 1 day.
 
Though it took quite some time to completely get rid of intermittent claudication... In the beginning carefully and gradually increased the doses of vitamin C and l-lysine, and this way found that only once I crossed the threshold between a prevention and therapeutic dose (according to Pauling) after about 1 year, my walking distance increased substantially to 1 hour, 2 the second year. Then with a chronic bronchitis for a whole year decreasing down to 1/2 hour again. Before gradually going up till it was no more, 2 years ago.
 
True, I too don't have any evidence the plaque decreased. Only of the expansive revascularisation I'm sure. And I'm utterly pleased it was possible to overcome my disability this gentle way.
 

And, you've glossed over the fact that high dose vitamin C regimen might actually increase rates of cancer.

 

The fact, that it might??? Show me the evidence.

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 27 September 2016 - 06:05 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

And, you've glossed over the fact that high dose vitamin C regimen might actually increase rates of cancer.

I believe what you're talking about is the fact that vitamin C with a high dietary iron intake can lead to oxidation and thus an increased risk of cancer - according to the study?

 

But anyway, even if that's true, what does most of the job is not vitamin C but l-lysine. Some people just take a 500mg tablet with their 3g of l-lysine. Vitamin C's role in the therapy is the production of collagen to protect the arteries and in the increase of the bioavailability of l-lysine, and in reducing lipoprotein(a).

 

A high dosage of nicotinic acid with l-lysine and 500mg or less of vitamin C, could possibly be superior to a high dosage of oral vitamin C with lysine and proline. 

[pamojja]

A high dosage of nicotinic acid with l-lysine and 500mg or less of vitamin C, could possibly be superior to a high dosage of oral vitamin C with lysine and proline.

 

In my case, with multiple issues (chronic bronchitis, hay fever, CFC) even higher doses up to bowel tolerance (<50 g/d) of vitamin C showed highly beneficial. Additional to high niacin, lysin and proline. But we are all different and there quite a few with bowel tolerance below 10 g, therefore not even able to follow this protocol. In such cases there would be liposomals or, to some extent, ascorbates possible to take instead.

Edited by pamojja, 28 September 2016 - 09:21 AM.

[William Sterog]

Been awhile since anyone's posted in this thread.  Any new developments out there or on the horizon?  Anyone working on a personal plaque reduction program that they have some evidence of working?

 

I think that the most interesting supplement was already mentioned lots of times in the thread.

 

Finally, pomegranate juice supplementation of E(0) mice reduced the size of their atherosclerotic lesions by 44%.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/10799367

 

Potent health effects of pomegranate

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4007340/

 

I will be taking this for some time and lets see what happens.

[Daniel Cooper]

 

Been awhile since anyone's posted in this thread.  Any new developments out there or on the horizon?  Anyone working on a personal plaque reduction program that they have some evidence of working?

 

I think that the most interesting supplement was already mentioned lots of times in the thread.

 

Finally, pomegranate juice supplementation of E(0) mice reduced the size of their atherosclerotic lesions by 44%.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/10799367

 

Potent health effects of pomegranate

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4007340/

 

I will be taking this for some time and lets see what happens.

 

 

Believe me, I drink my pomegranate juice every day.  We have some fairly decent evidence that it may be helpful in preventing and perhaps even reversing some cardio-vascular disease.

 

What's really frustrating is the lack of a really decent double blind study in humans.  We have the Israeli study that measured carotid intimal medial thickness using ultrasound which was very encouraging, but we're only measuring an indirect proxy for what we really want.

 

What I'd really like to see is a similar study that measured coronary arterial calcium (CAC) scores.  This is also a proxy but one that may be closer to the issue at hand.

 

This would not be an expensive study to run, but without the potential for a billion dollar drug on the line no one seems that excited about doing it.

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 02 October 2016 - 07:32 PM.

[Richard McGee]

This thread is of particular interest to me, being a 67 year old survivor of a heart attack ('09) and veteran of 5 stents. (I am a newbie here - using one of my 5 probationary posts). I am taking these LEF products as part of my regimen:

 

Life Extension Mix™ Tablets with Extra Niacin

Super Ubiquinol CoQ10 with Enhanced Mitochondrial Support™

pTeroPure®

Natural BP Management

Endothelial Defense™ with GliSODin®

Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer with BioPQQ®

 

Would the pomegranate extract in Endothelial Defense achieve the same effects as the juice? Also, should I supplement with lysine? 

[Daniel Cooper]

This thread is of particular interest to me, being a 67 year old survivor of a heart attack ('09) and veteran of 5 stents. (I am a newbie here - using one of my 5 probationary posts). I am taking these LEF products as part of my regimen:

 

Life Extension Mix™ Tablets with Extra Niacin

Super Ubiquinol CoQ10 with Enhanced Mitochondrial Support™

pTeroPure®

Natural BP Management

Endothelial Defense™ with GliSODin®

Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer with BioPQQ®

 

Would the pomegranate extract in Endothelial Defense achieve the same effects as the juice? Also, should I supplement with lysine? 

 

I've seen at least one study (which I can't seem to locate) that seemed to indicate that pomegranate extract wasn't as good as whole pomegranate juice.  Maybe someone else remembers it.

 

That said, if you have blood sugar control issues you have to weight that against the fairly large dose of sugar you're getting with whole juice.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

This thread is of particular interest to me, being a 67 year old survivor of a heart attack ('09) and veteran of 5 stents. (I am a newbie here - using one of my 5 probationary posts). I am taking these LEF products as part of my regimen:

 

Life Extension Mix™ Tablets with Extra Niacin

Super Ubiquinol CoQ10 with Enhanced Mitochondrial Support™

pTeroPure®

Natural BP Management

Endothelial Defense™ with GliSODin®

Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer with BioPQQ®

 

Would the pomegranate extract in Endothelial Defense achieve the same effects as the juice? Also, should I supplement with lysine? 

Forget the pomegranate nonsense - it's just a distraction - and take the l-lysine.

The lysine works 100%, the pomegranate might potentially in some universe ensemble. It's stupid choosing a thing that MIGHT work over a thing that definitely does. L-lysine is a lipoprotein(a) inhibitor, it can actually dissolve the plaque in the arteries. Pomegranate does a thousand things at once, most of which you might not want.

 

You should add vitamin K2 100-200mcg. The "netto" stuff sold has a longer half-life of about a week or so, that's the only difference. But you still need to take it daily. This should decalcify your arteries.

 

My recommendation for you is:

Niacin as nicotinic acid 1g daily (this lowers lipoprotein(a), balances cholesterol transporters, triglycerides, etc.)

Linus Pauling Therapy in the form of 500mg l-proline, 3g l-lysine, 500mg-1000mg vitamin C (they usually use higher dosages of vitamin C but you don't have to. l-proline lowers lipoprotein(a) and is a cofactor together with lysine and vitamin C for a type of collagen used by arteries. L-lysine removes the actual plaque formations and lowers lipoproten(a) and vitamin C increases the effectiveness (absorption?) of l-lysine, and supposedly also vice versa. You could potentially leave the l-proline out as the body makes it.)

CoQ10 200-500mg (does have cardioprotective effects).

Vitamin K2 100-200mcg.

 

And that's it! A simple, very cheap stack if you leave out the CoQ10. With this you will be able to reverse plaque formation in about a month, depending upon how severe it is and whether you actually take it daily like you should.

[William Sterog]

This thread is of particular interest to me, being a 67 year old survivor of a heart attack ('09) and veteran of 5 stents. (I am a newbie here - using one of my 5 probationary posts). I am taking these LEF products as part of my regimen:

Life Extension Mix™ Tablets with Extra Niacin
Super Ubiquinol CoQ10 with Enhanced Mitochondrial Support™
pTeroPure®
Natural BP Management
Endothelial Defense™ with GliSODin®
Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer with BioPQQ®

Would the pomegranate extract in Endothelial Defense achieve the same effects as the juice? Also, should I supplement with lysine?

I've seen at least one study (which I can't seem to locate) that seemed to indicate that pomegranate extract wasn't as good as whole pomegranate juice. Maybe someone else remembers it.

That said, if you have blood sugar control issues you have to weight that against the fairly large dose of sugar you're getting with whole juice.

Http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/22234-pomegranate-juice-vs-extract/

Edited by William Sterog, 04 October 2016 - 06:17 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

 

This thread is of particular interest to me, being a 67 year old survivor of a heart attack ('09) and veteran of 5 stents. (I am a newbie here - using one of my 5 probationary posts). I am taking these LEF products as part of my regimen:

 

Life Extension Mix™ Tablets with Extra Niacin

Super Ubiquinol CoQ10 with Enhanced Mitochondrial Support™

pTeroPure®

Natural BP Management

Endothelial Defense™ with GliSODin®

Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer with BioPQQ®

 

Would the pomegranate extract in Endothelial Defense achieve the same effects as the juice? Also, should I supplement with lysine? 

Forget the pomegranate nonsense - it's just a distraction - and take the l-lysine.

The lysine works 100%, the pomegranate might potentially in some universe ensemble. It's stupid choosing a thing that MIGHT work over a thing that definitely does. L-lysine is a lipoprotein(a) inhibitor, it can actually dissolve the plaque in the arteries. Pomegranate does a thousand things at once, most of which you might not want.

 

You should add vitamin K2 100-200mcg. The "netto" stuff sold has a longer half-life of about a week or so, that's the only difference. But you still need to take it daily. This should decalcify your arteries.

 

My recommendation for you is:

Niacin as nicotinic acid 1g daily (this lowers lipoprotein(a), balances cholesterol transporters, triglycerides, etc.)

Linus Pauling Therapy in the form of 500mg l-proline, 3g l-lysine, 500mg-1000mg vitamin C (they usually use higher dosages of vitamin C but you don't have to. l-proline lowers lipoprotein(a) and is a cofactor together with lysine and vitamin C for a type of collagen used by arteries. L-lysine removes the actual plaque formations and lowers lipoproten(a) and vitamin C increases the effectiveness (absorption?) of l-lysine, and supposedly also vice versa. You could potentially leave the l-proline out as the body makes it.)

CoQ10 200-500mg (does have cardioprotective effects).

Vitamin K2 100-200mcg.

 

And that's it! A simple, very cheap stack if you leave out the CoQ10. With this you will be able to reverse plaque formation in about a month, depending upon how severe it is and whether you actually take it daily like you should.

 

 

Could you possibly point out some studies to back up this position?

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

 

I've seen at least one study (which I can't seem to locate) that seemed to indicate that pomegranate extract wasn't as good as whole pomegranate juice. Maybe someone else remembers it.

That said, if you have blood sugar control issues you have to weight that against the fairly large dose of sugar you're getting with whole juice.

Http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/22234-pomegranate-juice-vs-extract/

 

 

Excellent.  Thanks.

 

 

 

[Richard McGee]

 

This thread is of particular interest to me, being a 67 year old survivor of a heart attack ('09) and veteran of 5 stents. (I am a newbie here - using one of my 5 probationary posts). I am taking these LEF products as part of my regimen:

 

Life Extension Mix™ Tablets with Extra Niacin

Super Ubiquinol CoQ10 with Enhanced Mitochondrial Support™

pTeroPure®

Natural BP Management

Endothelial Defense™ with GliSODin®

Mitochondrial Energy Optimizer with BioPQQ®

 

Would the pomegranate extract in Endothelial Defense achieve the same effects as the juice? Also, should I supplement with lysine? 

Forget the pomegranate nonsense - it's just a distraction - and take the l-lysine.

The lysine works 100%, the pomegranate might potentially in some universe ensemble. It's stupid choosing a thing that MIGHT work over a thing that definitely does. L-lysine is a lipoprotein(a) inhibitor, it can actually dissolve the plaque in the arteries. Pomegranate does a thousand things at once, most of which you might not want.

 

You should add vitamin K2 100-200mcg. The "netto" stuff sold has a longer half-life of about a week or so, that's the only difference. But you still need to take it daily. This should decalcify your arteries.

 

My recommendation for you is:

Niacin as nicotinic acid 1g daily (this lowers lipoprotein(a), balances cholesterol transporters, triglycerides, etc.)

Linus Pauling Therapy in the form of 500mg l-proline, 3g l-lysine, 500mg-1000mg vitamin C (they usually use higher dosages of vitamin C but you don't have to. l-proline lowers lipoprotein(a) and is a cofactor together with lysine and vitamin C for a type of collagen used by arteries. L-lysine removes the actual plaque formations and lowers lipoproten(a) and vitamin C increases the effectiveness (absorption?) of l-lysine, and supposedly also vice versa. You could potentially leave the l-proline out as the body makes it.)

CoQ10 200-500mg (does have cardioprotective effects).

Vitamin K2 100-200mcg.

 

And that's it! A simple, very cheap stack if you leave out the CoQ10. With this you will be able to reverse plaque formation in about a month, depending upon how severe it is and whether you actually take it daily like you should.

 

 

Since it is a low-risk strategy, I'll add lysine, proline, and K2. I should already have sufficient amounts of C. My intake of niacin is mostly in the inositol hexanicotinate form - any thoughts on various formulations of niacin?

[Dolph]

Inositol hexanicotinate doesn't do anything. It doesn't even have any activity as a vitamin, as the niacin molecules don't ever detach from the inositol core. What you need is crystalline, immediate release nicotinic acid. And I personally would rather take something between 2 and 4g (under control of a doctor) if you  want to see a relevant effect.

 

Linus Pauling "therapy" is not a therapy but a bad joke. No, Vitamin C and Lysine won't do anything to reduce atherosclerosis, and everybody who spends some time studying the pathophysiology of atherosclerosis will understand why it's hilarious nonsense. 

Edited by Dolph, 05 October 2016 - 04:36 PM.