153 replies to this topic

[bulky]

Hello

This synthetic LDL was shown to remove arteiral plaque and was briefly all over the news, now in trials, see here:

 

http://clinicaltrial...how/NCT02108262

 

But some people can't wait that long.

Are there any projects underway here ? i'd like to get involved. Thanks

[YOLF]

Have you tried supplements already? There are lots of good ones that can work better than RX. Tocotrienols in the absense of regular vitamin E come to mind.

ROFL though, I thought you posting a study where Drano removed plaques in rats or something!

[Andey]

I dont catch primary outcomes to measure.

1. Clinically important change in drug-induced liver injury

 

So they would induce artificial liver damage in volunteers then look if substance would help with repair that damage... or not . Am I right ?

Sounds kind of extreme.

[niner]

In this particular trial, you have to have just had a heart attack.  Liver damage is just one of the safety endpoints they're following.  They aren't trying to cause it- they want to avoid it, in fact.  If the drug caused liver damage, it couldn't get approved.  (Unless the artery-clearing effect was really good (unlikely), and the liver damage was mild.)

[YOLF]

Might it be beneficial to keep a bottle of ALCAR around to be taken at the sign of the next HA? I imagine if the capsule was stirred into water and swallowed it could be of immediate benefit.

[niner]

I'm not exactly planning on having a heart attack, but if I did, ALCAR wouldn't be my choice.  I'd probably take some NAC and wash it down with c60oo.  If I had access to any hydrogen gas, I would take a hit once or twice a minute.  I'd also be heading to a coronary care unit ASAP...  All this assumes consciousness, of course.  The same plan would apply in the case of stroke.  (I wouldn't care if it was ischemic or a bleed.  It probably wouldn't help much in the case of a bleed, but wouldn't hurt much either.  Ischemic strokes are an order of magnitude more common than bleeds.

Edited by niner, 21 August 2014 - 12:32 AM.

[PWAIN]

I think I'd head for the asprin first. Finding a way to cool your body down might also be helpful but probably not practical other than removing clothing.

 

My understanding is that they are not using synthetic LDL but are extracting it from blood (presumably blood doners?) and then injecting this concentrated LDL into test patients. Can anyone confirm this?

 

This si what they say:

 

CSL112 is a novel formulation of apolipoprotein A-I (apoA-I) purified from human plasma and reconstituted to form high-density lipoprotein (HDL) particles.

Edited by PWAIN, 19 August 2014 - 10:15 PM.

[Logic]

Inhibition of arteriosclerotic plaque development by garlic
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15638070

The antiatherosclerotic effect of Allium sativum
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10381297

Inhibiting progression of coronary calcification using Aged Garlic Extract in patients receiving statin therapy: a preliminary study
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15475033

That takes care of the easy to find and take immediately substance. All I can add is taking limonene for the smell.

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=529307

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=543879

That reminds me: Look into DMSO. It may be even more effective than Garlic or Aged Garlic.

 

Chelation Theripy looks promising too:

http://www.longecity...n-therapy-tact/

http://www.longecity...rapy-with-edta/

http://www.longecity...-via-chelation/


I am still researching this but it seems that if you can stop the oxidation of the fats and oils that make up today's diet you can dramatically slow and stop the build-up of arterial plaque.
BHT seems to be best at doing this and Vit E (Alpha Tocopherol) is also worth a look:

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3355615

http://stroke.ahajou.../32/9/1953.full

http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC288096/

http://atvb.ahajourn.../20/6/1688.full

http://www.jbc.org/c...83/10/6428.full

 

[MachineGhostX]

GliSODin + Pomegranate.  That alone should be enough, but its probably not going to work very fast, so throw in a Pauling/Rath Cocktail:

 

http://www.paulingth...m/products.html

 

I would do some research to find out what the optimal C+Lysine+Proline formulation is as there's too much variation in those commercial products and the Proline looks a bit low.  Also consider high-dose oral EDTA.

 

[zen]

Another option to consider is NanobacTX - www.nanobiotechpharma.com

[niner]

Another option to consider is NanobacTX - www.nanobiotechpharma.com

 

Seems interesting.  The first version of this had tetracycline and EDTA as the main ingredients, along with some "nutrients".  That was the version that was called "comET" in the literature.  The stuff they are now selling has EDTA, but no tetracycline.  (probably because they couldn't sell tetracycline in the US without a prescription)  It now contains an unspecified amount of EDTA and more "nutrients", that is, a raft of vitamins and amino acids, and maybe a couple other supplement-like things.  The Supplement Facts list is on Terry Grossman's site.  Here's what I'd like to know:  If intravenous infusions of EDTA work only kind of well on plaque burden, how well can oral EDTA work?  Do the other ingredients taken together contain the magic?   The website shows only cases where it worked, and only positive comments from some doctors, which really feels like cherry-picking.  But maybe I'm just being cynical...  It's two hundred bucks a bottle- one month's supply.  If you want to do before and after heart scans, it'll cost you about a grand to run the experiment, not counting the cost of the scans.  If it works, it's totally worth it.  (setting aside for the moment the question of the relative danger of calcified plaque that the scan can see, and non-calcified plaque that it can't see...)

[scottknl]

It's not really needed.  A CRON diet will melt away your plaque and leave your IMT looking like you were a child (clean of plaque).  Ornish and others have shown that a properly balanced plant based diet with low fat a cholesterol will reduce plaques.  While there may be some minority of people with genetic problems regarding cholesterol clearance, the vast majority of people just eat like idiots with no regard for nutrition or balance in their diets.  I used to be one of them, so I know the difference.

 

One example Nathan Pritikin.  When he died of cancer/suicide, his autopsy showed that his previous heart disease was entirely gone.  He wasn't even doing CR and still got great results.

[zen]

 

Another option to consider is NanobacTX - www.nanobiotechpharma.com

 

Seems interesting.  The first version of this had tetracycline and EDTA as the main ingredients, along with some "nutrients".  That was the version that was called "comET" in the literature.  The stuff they are now selling has EDTA, but no tetracycline.  (probably because they couldn't sell tetracycline in the US without a prescription)  It now contains an unspecified amount of EDTA and more "nutrients", that is, a raft of vitamins and amino acids, and maybe a couple other supplement-like things.  The Supplement Facts list is on Terry Grossman's site.  Here's what I'd like to know:  If intravenous infusions of EDTA work only kind of well on plaque burden, how well can oral EDTA work?  Do the other ingredients taken together contain the magic?   The website shows only cases where it worked, and only positive comments from some doctors, which really feels like cherry-picking.  But maybe I'm just being cynical...  It's two hundred bucks a bottle- one month's supply.  If you want to do before and after heart scans, it'll cost you about a grand to run the experiment, not counting the cost of the scans.  If it works, it's totally worth it.  (setting aside for the moment the question of the relative danger of calcified plaque that the scan can see, and non-calcified plaque that it can't see...)

 

 

I have read that they use some special capsule which bypass the stomach and dissolve in small intestine bowel.

I have mentioned NanobacTX because there seems to be some legit research available regarding its use.
Yes, it is quite expensive however, assuming it works, I would still prefer to spend that kind of money rather than go through the alternatives.

To be completely clear, I am not affiliated in anyway to the company which produces and sells NanobacTX.


 

[niner]

I have read that they use some special capsule which bypass the stomach and dissolve in small intestine bowel.

 

Where did you read this?

[zen]

 

I have read that they use some special capsule which bypass the stomach and dissolve in small intestine bowel.

 

Where did you read this?

 

 

I don't remember where exactly I read that. However you can find that information available on the Internet, for example go to www.rayandterry.com/nanobactx.html and search for "patented capsules"
 

Edited by zen, 22 August 2014 - 02:07 AM.

[niner]

I'm not sufficiently motivated to search it out.  For now I will assume that they don't have an enteric coating, since that's pretty rare in the supplement universe.  If you want to post a link, I'll take a look.

[zen]

I'm not sufficiently motivated to search it out.  For now I will assume that they don't have an enteric coating, since that's pretty rare in the supplement universe.  If you want to post a link, I'll take a look.

 

Hmm, I believe I have posted the direct link to that information, what am I missing?
 

[niner]

 

I'm not sufficiently motivated to search it out.  For now I will assume that they don't have an enteric coating, since that's pretty rare in the supplement universe.  If you want to post a link, I'll take a look.

 

Hmm, I believe I have posted the direct link to that information, what am I missing?

 

Oh, you're right- it's down there at the bottom of the page.  Sorry, I didn't see it...  So apparently it is enteric coated.  I guess it ought to be, for $200 a bottle...

[leanguy]

Look into proteolytic enzymes, such as Serrapeptase

 

[Darryl]

Heart attacks are generally not caused by the plaque, but by the plaque's fibrous cap rupturing and suddenly blocking the vessel. To avoid the possibly immediate and fatal consequences of a lifetime of rich eating requires halting the vicious cycle of postprandial endothelial inflammation, immune cell activity and oxidative stress, permitting the fibrous cap to grow a bit stronger. 

 

To my knowledge, only one intervention has truly superb outcomes here, and that's Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn's combination of a fat-free vegan diet (no animal products, oils of any sort, and even no nuts or avocado) with moderate dose statins. Its the restrictive rigour and statins that distinguish Esselstyn's approach from similar prior studies (Kempner, Pritikin, Ornish). In time, in some patients the plaque recedes, but the important thing is strong fibrous caps and the near immediate (~2 weeks) reduction of angina.

 

Esselstyn Jr, C. B. (1999). Updating a 12-year experience with arrest and reversal therapy for coronary heart disease (an overdue requiem for palliative cardiology). The American journal of cardiology, 84(3), 339-341.

Esselstyn, Caldwell et al. (2014). A Way to reverse CAD. J Fam Practice, 63(7), 356-364.

 

Personally, I think Esselstyn errs a bit in excluding tree-nuts like almonds, walnuts and pistachios, but I've otherwise practiced a similar diet (< 3% saturated fat) as I've some family history with CVD. My total cholesterol is 147 mg/dl as of my last bimonthly blood donation, which places me off the left end of the cholesterol/CVD risk curves. I also don't seem to have the inflammatory and ischemic soreness (back and joint) that seems to afflict a lot of people my age (mid 40s).

Edited by Darryl, 23 August 2014 - 08:41 PM.

[bulky]

Hi, before I get started with any supplement program or diet I want to get a better idea of the the condition of my plumbing.

All I know right now is that my cholesterol is too high.

What test should I ask for to get a clear picture of arterial plaque and what does it involve?

I know there is test that shows it but they usually only perform it if you're having a heart attack.

 

Thanks

 

[O3PH4N]

 

Another option to consider is NanobacTX - www.nanobiotechpharma.com

 

Seems interesting.  The first version of this had tetracycline and EDTA as the main ingredients, along with some "nutrients".  That was the version that was called "comET" in the literature.  The stuff they are now selling has EDTA, but no tetracycline.  (probably because they couldn't sell tetracycline in the US without a prescription)  It now contains an unspecified amount of EDTA and more "nutrients", that is, a raft of vitamins and amino acids, and maybe a couple other supplement-like things.  The Supplement Facts list is on Terry Grossman's site.  Here's what I'd like to know:  If intravenous infusions of EDTA work only kind of well on plaque burden, how well can oral EDTA work?  Do the other ingredients taken together contain the magic?   The website shows only cases where it worked, and only positive comments from some doctors, which really feels like cherry-picking.  But maybe I'm just being cynical...  It's two hundred bucks a bottle- one month's supply.  If you want to do before and after heart scans, it'll cost you about a grand to run the experiment, not counting the cost of the scans.  If it works, it's totally worth it.  (setting aside for the moment the question of the relative danger of calcified plaque that the scan can see, and non-calcified plaque that it can't see...)

 

 

Hey there,

 

Would you mind pointing me to the supplement facts list you referred to on Terry's site?  I'm not finding it. 

 

Thank you!

[zen]

 

 

Another option to consider is NanobacTX - www.nanobiotechpharma.com

 

Seems interesting.  The first version of this had tetracycline and EDTA as the main ingredients, along with some "nutrients".  That was the version that was called "comET" in the literature.  The stuff they are now selling has EDTA, but no tetracycline.  (probably because they couldn't sell tetracycline in the US without a prescription)  It now contains an unspecified amount of EDTA and more "nutrients", that is, a raft of vitamins and amino acids, and maybe a couple other supplement-like things.  The Supplement Facts list is on Terry Grossman's site.  Here's what I'd like to know:  If intravenous infusions of EDTA work only kind of well on plaque burden, how well can oral EDTA work?  Do the other ingredients taken together contain the magic?   The website shows only cases where it worked, and only positive comments from some doctors, which really feels like cherry-picking.  But maybe I'm just being cynical...  It's two hundred bucks a bottle- one month's supply.  If you want to do before and after heart scans, it'll cost you about a grand to run the experiment, not counting the cost of the scans.  If it works, it's totally worth it.  (setting aside for the moment the question of the relative danger of calcified plaque that the scan can see, and non-calcified plaque that it can't see...)

 

 

Hey there,

 

Would you mind pointing me to the supplement facts list you referred to on Terry's site?  I'm not finding it. 

 

Thank you!

 

You can find the direct link in my post #15 above.

HTH

[Ltd]

I have hereditary high cholesterol and have been prescribed 10mg statins (Crestor) and 10 mg Ezetrol. I find that my memory is poor and have therefore stopped taking it. Is there a way of overcoming this without putting my cardiovascular health at risk?

[aribadabar]

I have hereditary high cholesterol and have been prescribed 10mg statins (Crestor) and 10 mg Ezetrol. I find that my memory is poor and have therefore stopped taking it. Is there a way of overcoming this without putting my cardiovascular health at risk?

FWIW, my understanding is that regular exercise combine with a vegan, low-carb diet combined with everyday intake of some(500-1000mg) nicotinic acid would prove beneficial in maintaining healthy cholesterol levels. If you can do CR then your battle with cholesterol creep is virtually certain.

 

Now the question is do you want to have this lifestyle?

[Ltd]

[quote name="aribadabar" post="688179" timestamp="1411084465"]

[quote name="Ltd" post="688161" timestamp="1411075553"]

FWIW, my understanding is that regular exercise combine with a vegan, low-carb diet combined with everyday intake of some(500-1000mg) nicotinic acid would prove beneficial in maintaining healthy cholesterol levels. If you can do CR then your battle with cholesterol creep is virtually certain.

Now the question is do you want to have this lifestyle?[/quote]

Good Day Aribadabar,
Thank you your response. I am prepared to change my diet, as well as lifestyle. Becoming vegan will have to be an end goal as I am an avid meat eater. I have been supplementing with nicotinic acid, though not in the doses you recommend. I believe nicotinic acid has neuro benefits too.
CR - calorie restriction will be a tough road, but I am keen on investigating alternatives to the current medication. As you said: "is this the lifestyle I want?" I guess alive on vegan is better than dead on meat.
I am however concerned that the cholesterol is hereditary and my understanding is that it is cholesterol that is produced by the body that is the problem. My mother follows a very strict diet and eats well, yet has high cholesterol that is only managed with medication.

In the meantime I am improving fitness and cutting out refined foods as a start.

I will look into the links provided in response.
Thank you.

[niner]

Ltd, I think it's possible to deal with high cholesterol without being a vegan, but you might need to cut back on meat, depending on how much you eat.  I don't think that CR is needed either, but you'll need to have a reasonable caloric intake.   Exercise is important, but if you are ApoE4, then you should pay close attention to diet.  Do you know what sort of hereditary hypercholesterolemia you have?  What are your HDL, LDL, and triglyceride values?

[PWAIN]

Maybe try the 5:2 diet. It is far easier to stick to so you will probably see permanent results because you will be able to keep it up.

[Logic]

Chronic high dose K2 MK4 is worth researching.
Look for Mikey's posts on this.

[hav]

I also suggest K2.  It might not have a direct impact on cholesterol-based plaque but it does drive calcium from soft tissues and blood vessels into the bones which should inhibit any calcium-based plaque formation.  Here's a mention of it as an arteriosclerosis treatment for diabetics:

 

Atherosclerosis and Matrix Dystrophy

 

Vitamin K₂ is used in drug therapy against atherosclerosis, or calcification in diabetes mellitus or dialysis, due to its promotion of the carboxylation of the matrix Gla protein.

 

Howard

 

Edited by hav, 24 September 2014 - 05:59 PM.