280 replies to this topic

[Area-1255]

Because you're a woman?

Lmao.

So why don't you keep taking it?

PTSD study showed that in women only (no causal relationship in men) low estrogen was associated with higher incidence of PTSD. I wouldn't be surprised if DHT is the analogous hormone in men that is too low in those with PTSD.

It gets too expensive, plus at the time my intention was solely for a cutting cycle, not just an experiment.
There are many men who favor low estrogen levels, especially over high estrogen levels, but ...some actually prefer a low estrogen or even undetectable estrogen state - my only concern would be an unfavorable shift in lipids and possible bone mass / density decreases...of course, there are studies that potent androgens themselves can protect against bone loss....

I s'pose having low natural E2 is favorable for remaining lean, but not for building significant amounts of mass or for bulking, as you wouldn't be able to hold enough water to do so.

Interestingly, there are other conditions besides low estro that cause excessive diuresis, one of them would be a very high histamine level; or undermethylation....

Extremely low estradiol on men actually contributes to fat accumulation, as well as depressed libido, anxiety and bone demineralization.

Only if you are low in nitric oxide, then low E2 can do that. But generally, low estro contributes to lean / thin builds. It kicks thyroid into overdrive.

[mindpatch]

 

Because you're a woman?

Lmao.

 

 

So why don't you keep taking it?

PTSD study showed that in women only (no causal relationship in men) low estrogen was associated with higher incidence of PTSD. I wouldn't be surprised if DHT is the analogous hormone in men that is too low in those with PTSD.

It gets too expensive, plus at the time my intention was solely for a cutting cycle, not just an experiment.
There are many men who favor low estrogen levels, especially over high estrogen levels, but ...some actually prefer a low estrogen or even undetectable estrogen state - my only concern would be an unfavorable shift in lipids and possible bone mass / density decreases...of course, there are studies that potent androgens themselves can protect against bone loss....

I s'pose having low natural E2 is favorable for remaining lean, but not for building significant amounts of mass or for bulking, as you wouldn't be able to hold enough water to do so.

Interestingly, there are other conditions besides low estro that cause excessive diuresis, one of them would be a very high histamine level; or undermethylation....

Extremely low estradiol on men actually contributes to fat accumulation, as well as depressed libido, anxiety and bone demineralization.

Only if you are low in nitric oxide, then low E2 can do that. But generally, low estro contributes to lean / thin builds. It kicks thyroid into overdrive.

 

And how would you know whether you're low in NO?  ...and the study I read used a fairly large sample size.  One would have to assume that most if not all of the participants had low NO.  Or perhaps the low t and low aromatase correlates with whatever factors contribute to low NO.  Your answer is a little incomplete. 

 

http://www.nejm.org/...6/NEJMoa1206168

[Area-1255]

Because you're a woman?

Lmao.

So why don't you keep taking it?

PTSD study showed that in women only (no causal relationship in men) low estrogen was associated with higher incidence of PTSD. I wouldn't be surprised if DHT is the analogous hormone in men that is too low in those with PTSD.

It gets too expensive, plus at the time my intention was solely for a cutting cycle, not just an experiment.
There are many men who favor low estrogen levels, especially over high estrogen levels, but ...some actually prefer a low estrogen or even undetectable estrogen state - my only concern would be an unfavorable shift in lipids and possible bone mass / density decreases...of course, there are studies that potent androgens themselves can protect against bone loss....

I s'pose having low natural E2 is favorable for remaining lean, but not for building significant amounts of mass or for bulking, as you wouldn't be able to hold enough water to do so.

Interestingly, there are other conditions besides low estro that cause excessive diuresis, one of them would be a very high histamine level; or undermethylation....

Extremely low estradiol on men actually contributes to fat accumulation, as well as depressed libido, anxiety and bone demineralization.

Only if you are low in nitric oxide, then low E2 can do that. But generally, low estro contributes to lean / thin builds. It kicks thyroid into overdrive.

And how would you know whether you're low in NO? ...and the study I read used a fairly large sample size. One would have to assume that most if not all of the participants had low NO. Or perhaps the low t and low aromatase correlates with whatever factors contribute to low NO. Your answer is a little incomplete.

http://www.nejm.org/...6/NEJMoa1206168

There are a lot of contributors to low nitric oxide, low testosterone is a big one, low estrogen may alter one's sensitivity to PDE-5 inhibition, and may lower N.O itself, however, this is determined by genetics and diet as well. If you have low/undetectable estro levels, then you should be eating more nitrate containing foods. Also warrants the usage of extra folate and Niacin. I've had undetectable E2 and felt Fine, not even a single joint ache, though I was getting clicking when doing heavy workouts. Indicative of the lack of water uptake in joints. But no pain or BMD decreases. Also I'm on the lower end of normal E2 levels now and have very low bodyfat.
One thing to note is low Estro will decrease histamine H1 receptor mRNA but not other histamine subtypes. So you may feel like you need more coffee but the best way to resolve that issue is to alter histamine through other means.

[scibor1]

Because you're a woman?

no. I am men

[mindpatch]

 

 

 

Because you're a woman?

Lmao.

 

 

So why don't you keep taking it?

PTSD study showed that in women only (no causal relationship in men) low estrogen was associated with higher incidence of PTSD. I wouldn't be surprised if DHT is the analogous hormone in men that is too low in those with PTSD.

It gets too expensive, plus at the time my intention was solely for a cutting cycle, not just an experiment.
There are many men who favor low estrogen levels, especially over high estrogen levels, but ...some actually prefer a low estrogen or even undetectable estrogen state - my only concern would be an unfavorable shift in lipids and possible bone mass / density decreases...of course, there are studies that potent androgens themselves can protect against bone loss....

I s'pose having low natural E2 is favorable for remaining lean, but not for building significant amounts of mass or for bulking, as you wouldn't be able to hold enough water to do so.

Interestingly, there are other conditions besides low estro that cause excessive diuresis, one of them would be a very high histamine level; or undermethylation....

Extremely low estradiol on men actually contributes to fat accumulation, as well as depressed libido, anxiety and bone demineralization.

Only if you are low in nitric oxide, then low E2 can do that. But generally, low estro contributes to lean / thin builds. It kicks thyroid into overdrive.

And how would you know whether you're low in NO? ...and the study I read used a fairly large sample size. One would have to assume that most if not all of the participants had low NO. Or perhaps the low t and low aromatase correlates with whatever factors contribute to low NO. Your answer is a little incomplete.

http://www.nejm.org/...6/NEJMoa1206168

There are a lot of contributors to low nitric oxide, low testosterone is a big one, low estrogen may alter one's sensitivity to PDE-5 inhibition, and may lower N.O itself, however, this is determined by genetics and diet as well. If you have low/undetectable estro levels, then you should be eating more nitrate containing foods. Also warrants the usage of extra folate and Niacin. I've had undetectable E2 and felt Fine, not even a single joint ache, though I was getting clicking when doing heavy workouts. Indicative of the lack of water uptake in joints. But no pain or BMD decreases. Also I'm on the lower end of normal E2 levels now and have very low bodyfat.
One thing to note is low Estro will decrease histamine H1 receptor mRNA but not other histamine subtypes. So you may feel like you need more coffee but the best way to resolve that issue is to alter histamine through other means.

 

My last two tests showed an estradiol of 7 pg/ml and 4 pg/ml.  ....through Labcorp.  Their range was 3-70, so broad it doesn't really tell you much. I think Quest Diagnostic's range was 10-something or other.  My T in two tests tended to hover around 415 based on a range or normal range for their test of 350-1100.  My BUN/creatinine ratio was consistently high, low WBC, on the lower end of Hematocrit..40 and 41.  

 

Reading up a little on NO had me curious.  Low NO apparently inhibits the function of all NTs.  If you're non-responsive to anti-depressants, which I was, this might be a reason.  I discovered there's a test strip you can use to determine your NO levels.  I'm not sure how accurate it is or whether the scores of low NO websites indicate that the low NO epidemic is a bit of a scam. 

[Area-1255]

Because you're a woman?

Lmao.

So why don't you keep taking it?

PTSD study showed that in women only (no causal relationship in men) low estrogen was associated with higher incidence of PTSD. I wouldn't be surprised if DHT is the analogous hormone in men that is too low in those with PTSD.

It gets too expensive, plus at the time my intention was solely for a cutting cycle, not just an experiment.
There are many men who favor low estrogen levels, especially over high estrogen levels, but ...some actually prefer a low estrogen or even undetectable estrogen state - my only concern would be an unfavorable shift in lipids and possible bone mass / density decreases...of course, there are studies that potent androgens themselves can protect against bone loss....

I s'pose having low natural E2 is favorable for remaining lean, but not for building significant amounts of mass or for bulking, as you wouldn't be able to hold enough water to do so.

Interestingly, there are other conditions besides low estro that cause excessive diuresis, one of them would be a very high histamine level; or undermethylation....

Extremely low estradiol on men actually contributes to fat accumulation, as well as depressed libido, anxiety and bone demineralization.

Only if you are low in nitric oxide, then low E2 can do that. But generally, low estro contributes to lean / thin builds. It kicks thyroid into overdrive.

And how would you know whether you're low in NO? ...and the study I read used a fairly large sample size. One would have to assume that most if not all of the participants had low NO. Or perhaps the low t and low aromatase correlates with whatever factors contribute to low NO. Your answer is a little incomplete.

http://www.nejm.org/...6/NEJMoa1206168

There are a lot of contributors to low nitric oxide, low testosterone is a big one, low estrogen may alter one's sensitivity to PDE-5 inhibition, and may lower N.O itself, however, this is determined by genetics and diet as well. If you have low/undetectable estro levels, then you should be eating more nitrate containing foods. Also warrants the usage of extra folate and Niacin. I've had undetectable E2 and felt Fine, not even a single joint ache, though I was getting clicking when doing heavy workouts. Indicative of the lack of water uptake in joints. But no pain or BMD decreases. Also I'm on the lower end of normal E2 levels now and have very low bodyfat.
One thing to note is low Estro will decrease histamine H1 receptor mRNA but not other histamine subtypes. So you may feel like you need more coffee but the best way to resolve that issue is to alter histamine through other means.

My last two tests showed an estradiol of 7 pg/ml and 4 pg/ml. ....through Labcorp. Their range was 3-70, so broad it doesn't really tell you much. I think Quest Diagnostic's range was 10-something or other. My T in two tests tended to hover around 415 based on a range or normal range for their test of 350-1100. My BUN/creatinine ratio was consistently high, low WBC, on the lower end of Hematocrit..40 and 41.

Reading up a little on NO had me curious. Low NO apparently inhibits the function of all NTs. If you're non-responsive to anti-depressants, which I was, this might be a reason. I discovered there's a test strip you can use to determine your NO levels. I'm not sure how accurate it is or whether the scores of low NO websites indicate that the low NO epidemic is a bit of a scam.

I'm surprised with that low of E2 that you would not have Higher Testosterone levels!
In regards to nitric oxide, yes, you need N.O for proper dopamine activity, and to counter excessive sympathetic activity. Because N.O. modulates glutamate release, higher N.O is needed for stable neuron firing.

[scibor1]

Area1255, Lmao?

[Area-1255]

Area1255, Lmao?

What is the point of this post? Seems pretty LQ to me.

[mindpatch]

 

 

 

 

 

Because you're a woman?

Lmao.

 

 

So why don't you keep taking it?

PTSD study showed that in women only (no causal relationship in men) low estrogen was associated with higher incidence of PTSD. I wouldn't be surprised if DHT is the analogous hormone in men that is too low in those with PTSD.

It gets too expensive, plus at the time my intention was solely for a cutting cycle, not just an experiment.
There are many men who favor low estrogen levels, especially over high estrogen levels, but ...some actually prefer a low estrogen or even undetectable estrogen state - my only concern would be an unfavorable shift in lipids and possible bone mass / density decreases...of course, there are studies that potent androgens themselves can protect against bone loss....

I s'pose having low natural E2 is favorable for remaining lean, but not for building significant amounts of mass or for bulking, as you wouldn't be able to hold enough water to do so.

Interestingly, there are other conditions besides low estro that cause excessive diuresis, one of them would be a very high histamine level; or undermethylation....

Extremely low estradiol on men actually contributes to fat accumulation, as well as depressed libido, anxiety and bone demineralization.

Only if you are low in nitric oxide, then low E2 can do that. But generally, low estro contributes to lean / thin builds. It kicks thyroid into overdrive.

And how would you know whether you're low in NO? ...and the study I read used a fairly large sample size. One would have to assume that most if not all of the participants had low NO. Or perhaps the low t and low aromatase correlates with whatever factors contribute to low NO. Your answer is a little incomplete.

http://www.nejm.org/...6/NEJMoa1206168

There are a lot of contributors to low nitric oxide, low testosterone is a big one, low estrogen may alter one's sensitivity to PDE-5 inhibition, and may lower N.O itself, however, this is determined by genetics and diet as well. If you have low/undetectable estro levels, then you should be eating more nitrate containing foods. Also warrants the usage of extra folate and Niacin. I've had undetectable E2 and felt Fine, not even a single joint ache, though I was getting clicking when doing heavy workouts. Indicative of the lack of water uptake in joints. But no pain or BMD decreases. Also I'm on the lower end of normal E2 levels now and have very low bodyfat.
One thing to note is low Estro will decrease histamine H1 receptor mRNA but not other histamine subtypes. So you may feel like you need more coffee but the best way to resolve that issue is to alter histamine through other means.

My last two tests showed an estradiol of 7 pg/ml and 4 pg/ml. ....through Labcorp. Their range was 3-70, so broad it doesn't really tell you much. I think Quest Diagnostic's range was 10-something or other. My T in two tests tended to hover around 415 based on a range or normal range for their test of 350-1100. My BUN/creatinine ratio was consistently high, low WBC, on the lower end of Hematocrit..40 and 41.

Reading up a little on NO had me curious. Low NO apparently inhibits the function of all NTs. If you're non-responsive to anti-depressants, which I was, this might be a reason. I discovered there's a test strip you can use to determine your NO levels. I'm not sure how accurate it is or whether the scores of low NO websites indicate that the low NO epidemic is a bit of a scam.

I'm surprised with that low of E2 that you would not have Higher Testosterone levels!
In regards to nitric oxide, yes, you need N.O for proper dopamine activity, and to counter excessive sympathetic activity. Because N.O. modulates glutamate release, higher N.O is needed for stable neuron firing.

 

Well, the estradiol needs T as raw material.  Low T can result in low Estradiol.  

 

Maybe the conversations we need to have more of in this forum are ways to raise or optimize nitric oxide function.  There are so many threads and posts here on experimental or novel supplements to increase dopaminergic function.  It would seem these are somewhat moot if nitric oxide dysregulation prevents existing dopamine from working.

[Area-1255]

Because you're a woman?

Lmao.

So why don't you keep taking it?

PTSD study showed that in women only (no causal relationship in men) low estrogen was associated with higher incidence of PTSD. I wouldn't be surprised if DHT is the analogous hormone in men that is too low in those with PTSD.

It gets too expensive, plus at the time my intention was solely for a cutting cycle, not just an experiment.
There are many men who favor low estrogen levels, especially over high estrogen levels, but ...some actually prefer a low estrogen or even undetectable estrogen state - my only concern would be an unfavorable shift in lipids and possible bone mass / density decreases...of course, there are studies that potent androgens themselves can protect against bone loss....

I s'pose having low natural E2 is favorable for remaining lean, but not for building significant amounts of mass or for bulking, as you wouldn't be able to hold enough water to do so.

Interestingly, there are other conditions besides low estro that cause excessive diuresis, one of them would be a very high histamine level; or undermethylation....

Extremely low estradiol on men actually contributes to fat accumulation, as well as depressed libido, anxiety and bone demineralization.

Only if you are low in nitric oxide, then low E2 can do that. But generally, low estro contributes to lean / thin builds. It kicks thyroid into overdrive.

And how would you know whether you're low in NO? ...and the study I read used a fairly large sample size. One would have to assume that most if not all of the participants had low NO. Or perhaps the low t and low aromatase correlates with whatever factors contribute to low NO. Your answer is a little incomplete.

http://www.nejm.org/...6/NEJMoa1206168

There are a lot of contributors to low nitric oxide, low testosterone is a big one, low estrogen may alter one's sensitivity to PDE-5 inhibition, and may lower N.O itself, however, this is determined by genetics and diet as well. If you have low/undetectable estro levels, then you should be eating more nitrate containing foods. Also warrants the usage of extra folate and Niacin. I've had undetectable E2 and felt Fine, not even a single joint ache, though I was getting clicking when doing heavy workouts. Indicative of the lack of water uptake in joints. But no pain or BMD decreases. Also I'm on the lower end of normal E2 levels now and have very low bodyfat.
One thing to note is low Estro will decrease histamine H1 receptor mRNA but not other histamine subtypes. So you may feel like you need more coffee but the best way to resolve that issue is to alter histamine through other means.

My last two tests showed an estradiol of 7 pg/ml and 4 pg/ml. ....through Labcorp. Their range was 3-70, so broad it doesn't really tell you much. I think Quest Diagnostic's range was 10-something or other. My T in two tests tended to hover around 415 based on a range or normal range for their test of 350-1100. My BUN/creatinine ratio was consistently high, low WBC, on the lower end of Hematocrit..40 and 41.

Reading up a little on NO had me curious. Low NO apparently inhibits the function of all NTs. If you're non-responsive to anti-depressants, which I was, this might be a reason. I discovered there's a test strip you can use to determine your NO levels. I'm not sure how accurate it is or whether the scores of low NO websites indicate that the low NO epidemic is a bit of a scam.

I'm surprised with that low of E2 that you would not have Higher Testosterone levels!
In regards to nitric oxide, yes, you need N.O for proper dopamine activity, and to counter excessive sympathetic activity. Because N.O. modulates glutamate release, higher N.O is needed for stable neuron firing.

Well, the estradiol needs T as raw material. Low T can result in low Estradiol.

Maybe the conversations we need to have more of in this forum are ways to raise or optimize nitric oxide function. There are so many threads and posts here on experimental or novel supplements to increase dopaminergic function. It would seem these are somewhat moot if nitric oxide dysregulation prevents existing dopamine from working.

Low Estrogen and Low Testosterone are often co-occurring. There's only three scenarios where one would have high Test / low estro.

-You are healthy, have low body fat, and are still in your prime.

-You are taking Aromatase Inhibitors. ( a drug that stops estrogen synthesis from tedtosterone )


-You have congenital Aromatase deficiency, or a CytoChrome P450 mutation/variant/disturbance. PraderWilli? Or other liver enzyme abnormalties.


Low Estrogen is more dangerous when you also have low Testosterone.

-Worsened depression.
-Lack of motivation.
-Worsened libido and destroyed/decreased E.Q.
-More apathy.
-Losing muscle.
-Gaining fat.

Because thyroid hormones and cortisol are under exchange\constitutive / CONTROL by sex hormones, Testosterone being one of the primary cortisol antagonists, and also releasing more thyroid hormone, Especially in the relative absence of Estradiol. Testosterone generally hardens the body , where DHT hardens the mind and increases memory functions while creating a bolder mindset.

Thus DHT IS WHAT EVERY MAN TRULY WANTS, its the hormone of healthy attitide for any man who shalt stand up for himself and his beliefs.

It's the hormone that gives up body hair, and facial hair, and empowers one to enter a room with an unforgettable aura at high amounts. Its the key to countering male aging, and the key to restoring vigor and memory function.

[forexworld12]

what about when you have the opposite high estro /low teso ?

[Area-1255]

what about when you have the opposite high estro /low teso ?

Alot happens.
-Your HPTA shuts down/decreases.

-You start retaining sodium and Calcium gets built up in the wrong places. The uptake of calcium is either reduced in the basal ganglia or excessive when Estro is high.

-You get bloated from the above issue.

-Your dopamine plunders and the rest converts to Norepinephrine, which can cause high blood pressure and sexual dysfunction.

-Your brain becomes steadily excitotoxic, as estrogen becomes higher.

-Your glutamate over fires, and histamine H1 mRNA is massively increased; leading to Insomnia and anxiety from high Estro.

-GABA becomes deficient, and there's not much left to put the brakes on the above due to lack of Androgen inhibition of Glutamate release.

[Area-1255]

Also high estrogen can clog your arteries and increase platelet aggregration as well as distort lipids/cholesterol.

[Area-1255]

Can also distort sodium - potassium balance!

[mindpatch]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because you're a woman?

Lmao.

 

 

So why don't you keep taking it?

PTSD study showed that in women only (no causal relationship in men) low estrogen was associated with higher incidence of PTSD. I wouldn't be surprised if DHT is the analogous hormone in men that is too low in those with PTSD.

It gets too expensive, plus at the time my intention was solely for a cutting cycle, not just an experiment.
There are many men who favor low estrogen levels, especially over high estrogen levels, but ...some actually prefer a low estrogen or even undetectable estrogen state - my only concern would be an unfavorable shift in lipids and possible bone mass / density decreases...of course, there are studies that potent androgens themselves can protect against bone loss....

I s'pose having low natural E2 is favorable for remaining lean, but not for building significant amounts of mass or for bulking, as you wouldn't be able to hold enough water to do so.

Interestingly, there are other conditions besides low estro that cause excessive diuresis, one of them would be a very high histamine level; or undermethylation....

Extremely low estradiol on men actually contributes to fat accumulation, as well as depressed libido, anxiety and bone demineralization.

Only if you are low in nitric oxide, then low E2 can do that. But generally, low estro contributes to lean / thin builds. It kicks thyroid into overdrive.

And how would you know whether you're low in NO? ...and the study I read used a fairly large sample size. One would have to assume that most if not all of the participants had low NO. Or perhaps the low t and low aromatase correlates with whatever factors contribute to low NO. Your answer is a little incomplete.

http://www.nejm.org/...6/NEJMoa1206168

There are a lot of contributors to low nitric oxide, low testosterone is a big one, low estrogen may alter one's sensitivity to PDE-5 inhibition, and may lower N.O itself, however, this is determined by genetics and diet as well. If you have low/undetectable estro levels, then you should be eating more nitrate containing foods. Also warrants the usage of extra folate and Niacin. I've had undetectable E2 and felt Fine, not even a single joint ache, though I was getting clicking when doing heavy workouts. Indicative of the lack of water uptake in joints. But no pain or BMD decreases. Also I'm on the lower end of normal E2 levels now and have very low bodyfat.
One thing to note is low Estro will decrease histamine H1 receptor mRNA but not other histamine subtypes. So you may feel like you need more coffee but the best way to resolve that issue is to alter histamine through other means.

My last two tests showed an estradiol of 7 pg/ml and 4 pg/ml. ....through Labcorp. Their range was 3-70, so broad it doesn't really tell you much. I think Quest Diagnostic's range was 10-something or other. My T in two tests tended to hover around 415 based on a range or normal range for their test of 350-1100. My BUN/creatinine ratio was consistently high, low WBC, on the lower end of Hematocrit..40 and 41.

Reading up a little on NO had me curious. Low NO apparently inhibits the function of all NTs. If you're non-responsive to anti-depressants, which I was, this might be a reason. I discovered there's a test strip you can use to determine your NO levels. I'm not sure how accurate it is or whether the scores of low NO websites indicate that the low NO epidemic is a bit of a scam.

I'm surprised with that low of E2 that you would not have Higher Testosterone levels!
In regards to nitric oxide, yes, you need N.O for proper dopamine activity, and to counter excessive sympathetic activity. Because N.O. modulates glutamate release, higher N.O is needed for stable neuron firing.

Well, the estradiol needs T as raw material. Low T can result in low Estradiol.

Maybe the conversations we need to have more of in this forum are ways to raise or optimize nitric oxide function. There are so many threads and posts here on experimental or novel supplements to increase dopaminergic function. It would seem these are somewhat moot if nitric oxide dysregulation prevents existing dopamine from working.

Low Estrogen and Low Testosterone are often co-occurring. There's only three scenarios where one would have high Test / low estro.

-You are healthy, have low body fat, and are still in your prime.

-You are taking Aromatase Inhibitors. ( a drug that stops estrogen synthesis from tedtosterone )


-You have congenital Aromatase deficiency, or a CytoChrome P450 mutation/variant/disturbance. PraderWilli? Or other liver enzyme abnormalties.


Low Estrogen is more dangerous when you also have low Testosterone.

-Worsened depression.
-Lack of motivation.
-Worsened libido and destroyed/decreased E.Q.
-More apathy.
-Losing muscle.
-Gaining fat.

Because thyroid hormones and cortisol are under exchange\constitutive / CONTROL by sex hormones, Testosterone being one of the primary cortisol antagonists, and also releasing more thyroid hormone, Especially in the relative absence of Estradiol. Testosterone generally hardens the body , where DHT hardens the mind and increases memory functions while creating a bolder mindset.

Thus DHT IS WHAT EVERY MAN TRULY WANTS, its the hormone of healthy attitide for any man who shalt stand up for himself and his beliefs.

It's the hormone that gives up body hair, and facial hair, and empowers one to enter a room with an unforgettable aura at high amounts. Its the key to countering male aging, and the key to restoring vigor and memory function.

 

Ok, I"ll bite, even though "DHT IS WHAT EVERY MAN TRULY WANTS" sounds like unscrupulous snake oil salesman verbiage. Would my levels warrant HRT?  I was on T for a while....injectable cypionate on Tuesday/ Thursday.  It took a while to get the dose right based on trial and error - the endocrinologist didn't offer good advice here.  I think it went up to 500-600...forget the free T and Estra.

 

Also, I would like to make sure NO is optimal as well. 

[Area-1255]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because you're a woman?

Lmao.

 

 

So why don't you keep taking it?

PTSD study showed that in women only (no causal relationship in men) low estrogen was associated with higher incidence of PTSD. I wouldn't be surprised if DHT is the analogous hormone in men that is too low in those with PTSD.

It gets too expensive, plus at the time my intention was solely for a cutting cycle, not just an experiment.
There are many men who favor low estrogen levels, especially over high estrogen levels, but ...some actually prefer a low estrogen or even undetectable estrogen state - my only concern would be an unfavorable shift in lipids and possible bone mass / density decreases...of course, there are studies that potent androgens themselves can protect against bone loss....

I s'pose having low natural E2 is favorable for remaining lean, but not for building significant amounts of mass or for bulking, as you wouldn't be able to hold enough water to do so.

Interestingly, there are other conditions besides low estro that cause excessive diuresis, one of them would be a very high histamine level; or undermethylation....

Extremely low estradiol on men actually contributes to fat accumulation, as well as depressed libido, anxiety and bone demineralization.

Only if you are low in nitric oxide, then low E2 can do that. But generally, low estro contributes to lean / thin builds. It kicks thyroid into overdrive.

And how would you know whether you're low in NO? ...and the study I read used a fairly large sample size. One would have to assume that most if not all of the participants had low NO. Or perhaps the low t and low aromatase correlates with whatever factors contribute to low NO. Your answer is a little incomplete.

http://www.nejm.org/...6/NEJMoa1206168

There are a lot of contributors to low nitric oxide, low testosterone is a big one, low estrogen may alter one's sensitivity to PDE-5 inhibition, and may lower N.O itself, however, this is determined by genetics and diet as well. If you have low/undetectable estro levels, then you should be eating more nitrate containing foods. Also warrants the usage of extra folate and Niacin. I've had undetectable E2 and felt Fine, not even a single joint ache, though I was getting clicking when doing heavy workouts. Indicative of the lack of water uptake in joints. But no pain or BMD decreases. Also I'm on the lower end of normal E2 levels now and have very low bodyfat.
One thing to note is low Estro will decrease histamine H1 receptor mRNA but not other histamine subtypes. So you may feel like you need more coffee but the best way to resolve that issue is to alter histamine through other means.

My last two tests showed an estradiol of 7 pg/ml and 4 pg/ml. ....through Labcorp. Their range was 3-70, so broad it doesn't really tell you much. I think Quest Diagnostic's range was 10-something or other. My T in two tests tended to hover around 415 based on a range or normal range for their test of 350-1100. My BUN/creatinine ratio was consistently high, low WBC, on the lower end of Hematocrit..40 and 41.

Reading up a little on NO had me curious. Low NO apparently inhibits the function of all NTs. If you're non-responsive to anti-depressants, which I was, this might be a reason. I discovered there's a test strip you can use to determine your NO levels. I'm not sure how accurate it is or whether the scores of low NO websites indicate that the low NO epidemic is a bit of a scam.

I'm surprised with that low of E2 that you would not have Higher Testosterone levels!
In regards to nitric oxide, yes, you need N.O for proper dopamine activity, and to counter excessive sympathetic activity. Because N.O. modulates glutamate release, higher N.O is needed for stable neuron firing.

Well, the estradiol needs T as raw material. Low T can result in low Estradiol.

Maybe the conversations we need to have more of in this forum are ways to raise or optimize nitric oxide function. There are so many threads and posts here on experimental or novel supplements to increase dopaminergic function. It would seem these are somewhat moot if nitric oxide dysregulation prevents existing dopamine from working.

Low Estrogen and Low Testosterone are often co-occurring. There's only three scenarios where one would have high Test / low estro.

-You are healthy, have low body fat, and are still in your prime.

-You are taking Aromatase Inhibitors. ( a drug that stops estrogen synthesis from tedtosterone )


-You have congenital Aromatase deficiency, or a CytoChrome P450 mutation/variant/disturbance. PraderWilli? Or other liver enzyme abnormalties.


Low Estrogen is more dangerous when you also have low Testosterone.

-Worsened depression.
-Lack of motivation.
-Worsened libido and destroyed/decreased E.Q.
-More apathy.
-Losing muscle.
-Gaining fat.

Because thyroid hormones and cortisol are under exchange\constitutive / CONTROL by sex hormones, Testosterone being one of the primary cortisol antagonists, and also releasing more thyroid hormone, Especially in the relative absence of Estradiol. Testosterone generally hardens the body , where DHT hardens the mind and increases memory functions while creating a bolder mindset.

Thus DHT IS WHAT EVERY MAN TRULY WANTS, its the hormone of healthy attitide for any man who shalt stand up for himself and his beliefs.

It's the hormone that gives up body hair, and facial hair, and empowers one to enter a room with an unforgettable aura at high amounts. Its the key to countering male aging, and the key to restoring vigor and memory function.

 

Ok, I"ll bite, even though "DHT IS WHAT EVERY MAN TRULY WANTS" sounds like unscrupulous snake oil salesman verbiage. Would my levels warrant HRT?  I was on T for a while....injectable cypionate on Tuesday/ Thursday.  It took a while to get the dose right based on trial and error - the endocrinologist didn't offer good advice here.  I think it went up to 500-600...forget the free T and Estra.

 

Also, I would like to make sure NO is optimal as well. 

 

 

 

Well you want to have more androgen than estrogen, testosterone cypionate and other injections tend to produce LESS  D H T  than average, whereas gels tend to produce more DHT conversion - the reason for this, is because 5-alpha-reductase is HEAVILY concentrated in the skin and hair follicles, so  gels essentially take this with them en route into the circulation.

 

Because your level of 415 is in the " normal range" - I don't think - assuming this is natural - that HRT is warranted, nor will it be given by a doc, at this point....at least not under normal medical guidelines....

 

You should focus on maximizing testosterone production, something like hCG might prime you up for a bit.......but being your estradiol will also rise at this point - you would have to know your genetic sensitivity to estrogen increases....

 

A couple things determine how much testosterone converts into estrogen.

 

 

• BODY FAT PERCENTAGE. Fat tissue contains aromatase and triggers estrogen receptor expression.
• Stress level, and level and / or usage of corticosteroids.
• Dopamine : Noradrenaline ratio - whereas noradrenaline favors aromatase, specifically when it binds to alpha-1-receptors; it triggers protein kinase C - which then triggers aromatase.
• DHT level, and SHBG; SexHormoneBindingGlobulin ==== the more DHT, the less estrogen...
• DIET ; SOY? Protein  : Carb : FAT ratios.

 

 

There are many more, but those are the main ones.

 

 

Hence why zinc inhibits aromatase, it increases dopamine D2 receptors, and inhibits noradrenergic activity by opposing copper's stimulation of it...however, paradoxically, dopamine D2 related inhibitiion of prolactin could trigger total T increases which includes serum increases in estradiol...but directly proportional to other factors.

[mindpatch]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because you're a woman?

Lmao.

 

 

So why don't you keep taking it?

PTSD study showed that in women only (no causal relationship in men) low estrogen was associated with higher incidence of PTSD. I wouldn't be surprised if DHT is the analogous hormone in men that is too low in those with PTSD.

It gets too expensive, plus at the time my intention was solely for a cutting cycle, not just an experiment.
There are many men who favor low estrogen levels, especially over high estrogen levels, but ...some actually prefer a low estrogen or even undetectable estrogen state - my only concern would be an unfavorable shift in lipids and possible bone mass / density decreases...of course, there are studies that potent androgens themselves can protect against bone loss....

I s'pose having low natural E2 is favorable for remaining lean, but not for building significant amounts of mass or for bulking, as you wouldn't be able to hold enough water to do so.

Interestingly, there are other conditions besides low estro that cause excessive diuresis, one of them would be a very high histamine level; or undermethylation....

Extremely low estradiol on men actually contributes to fat accumulation, as well as depressed libido, anxiety and bone demineralization.

Only if you are low in nitric oxide, then low E2 can do that. But generally, low estro contributes to lean / thin builds. It kicks thyroid into overdrive.

And how would you know whether you're low in NO? ...and the study I read used a fairly large sample size. One would have to assume that most if not all of the participants had low NO. Or perhaps the low t and low aromatase correlates with whatever factors contribute to low NO. Your answer is a little incomplete.

http://www.nejm.org/...6/NEJMoa1206168

There are a lot of contributors to low nitric oxide, low testosterone is a big one, low estrogen may alter one's sensitivity to PDE-5 inhibition, and may lower N.O itself, however, this is determined by genetics and diet as well. If you have low/undetectable estro levels, then you should be eating more nitrate containing foods. Also warrants the usage of extra folate and Niacin. I've had undetectable E2 and felt Fine, not even a single joint ache, though I was getting clicking when doing heavy workouts. Indicative of the lack of water uptake in joints. But no pain or BMD decreases. Also I'm on the lower end of normal E2 levels now and have very low bodyfat.
One thing to note is low Estro will decrease histamine H1 receptor mRNA but not other histamine subtypes. So you may feel like you need more coffee but the best way to resolve that issue is to alter histamine through other means.

My last two tests showed an estradiol of 7 pg/ml and 4 pg/ml. ....through Labcorp. Their range was 3-70, so broad it doesn't really tell you much. I think Quest Diagnostic's range was 10-something or other. My T in two tests tended to hover around 415 based on a range or normal range for their test of 350-1100. My BUN/creatinine ratio was consistently high, low WBC, on the lower end of Hematocrit..40 and 41.

Reading up a little on NO had me curious. Low NO apparently inhibits the function of all NTs. If you're non-responsive to anti-depressants, which I was, this might be a reason. I discovered there's a test strip you can use to determine your NO levels. I'm not sure how accurate it is or whether the scores of low NO websites indicate that the low NO epidemic is a bit of a scam.

I'm surprised with that low of E2 that you would not have Higher Testosterone levels!
In regards to nitric oxide, yes, you need N.O for proper dopamine activity, and to counter excessive sympathetic activity. Because N.O. modulates glutamate release, higher N.O is needed for stable neuron firing.

Well, the estradiol needs T as raw material. Low T can result in low Estradiol.

Maybe the conversations we need to have more of in this forum are ways to raise or optimize nitric oxide function. There are so many threads and posts here on experimental or novel supplements to increase dopaminergic function. It would seem these are somewhat moot if nitric oxide dysregulation prevents existing dopamine from working.

Low Estrogen and Low Testosterone are often co-occurring. There's only three scenarios where one would have high Test / low estro.

-You are healthy, have low body fat, and are still in your prime.

-You are taking Aromatase Inhibitors. ( a drug that stops estrogen synthesis from tedtosterone )


-You have congenital Aromatase deficiency, or a CytoChrome P450 mutation/variant/disturbance. PraderWilli? Or other liver enzyme abnormalties.


Low Estrogen is more dangerous when you also have low Testosterone.

-Worsened depression.
-Lack of motivation.
-Worsened libido and destroyed/decreased E.Q.
-More apathy.
-Losing muscle.
-Gaining fat.

Because thyroid hormones and cortisol are under exchange\constitutive / CONTROL by sex hormones, Testosterone being one of the primary cortisol antagonists, and also releasing more thyroid hormone, Especially in the relative absence of Estradiol. Testosterone generally hardens the body , where DHT hardens the mind and increases memory functions while creating a bolder mindset.

Thus DHT IS WHAT EVERY MAN TRULY WANTS, its the hormone of healthy attitide for any man who shalt stand up for himself and his beliefs.

It's the hormone that gives up body hair, and facial hair, and empowers one to enter a room with an unforgettable aura at high amounts. Its the key to countering male aging, and the key to restoring vigor and memory function.

 

Ok, I"ll bite, even though "DHT IS WHAT EVERY MAN TRULY WANTS" sounds like unscrupulous snake oil salesman verbiage. Would my levels warrant HRT?  I was on T for a while....injectable cypionate on Tuesday/ Thursday.  It took a while to get the dose right based on trial and error - the endocrinologist didn't offer good advice here.  I think it went up to 500-600...forget the free T and Estra.

 

Also, I would like to make sure NO is optimal as well. 

 

 

 

Well you want to have more androgen than estrogen, testosterone cypionate and other injections tend to produce LESS  D H T  than average, whereas gels tend to produce more DHT conversion - the reason for this, is because 5-alpha-reductase is HEAVILY concentrated in the skin and hair follicles, so  gels essentially take this with them en route into the circulation.

 

Because your level of 415 is in the " normal range" - I don't think - assuming this is natural - that HRT is warranted, nor will it be given by a doc, at this point....at least not under normal medical guidelines....

 

You should focus on maximizing testosterone production, something like hCG might prime you up for a bit.......but being your estradiol will also rise at this point - you would have to know your genetic sensitivity to estrogen increases....

 

A couple things determine how much testosterone converts into estrogen.

 

 

• BODY FAT PERCENTAGE. Fat tissue contains aromatase and triggers estrogen receptor expression.
• Stress level, and level and / or usage of corticosteroids.
• Dopamine : Noradrenaline ratio - whereas noradrenaline favors aromatase, specifically when it binds to alpha-1-receptors; it triggers protein kinase C - which then triggers aromatase.
• DHT level, and SHBG; SexHormoneBindingGlobulin ==== the more DHT, the less estrogen...
• DIET ; SOY? Protein  : Carb : FAT ratios.

 

 

There are many more, but those are the main ones.

 

 

Hence why zinc inhibits aromatase, it increases dopamine D2 receptors, and inhibits noradrenergic activity by opposing copper's stimulation of it...however, paradoxically, dopamine D2 related inhibitiion of prolactin could trigger total T increases which includes serum increases in estradiol...but directly proportional to other factors.

 

Normal...but not by much.  That range is incredibly broad, and applies to every male from 18 to 80.  That is the median T level for someone in his 60s or 70s, not for someone in his 40s.  But then again, everyone is different.  It could be my T level has always been on the low side, and bringing myself out of my normal homeostasis with exogamous T screwed me up.  That's why I discovered this forum. 

 

The upside of the injectable T is that is raised hematocrit.  As an endurance athlete, this definitely helped.  I think on those two tests when I was off T my Ht was 40 and 41...kind of on the low-ish side. On T, they went up to 45...right in the middle.  I definitely was faster and had more consistent workouts day to day.  I'd like to ethically get it up a little, and if it's related to optimizing NT function and hormonal function, all the better.

 

Things came to a crashing halt and I went into a severe anxious and anhedonic state that I'm just not getting out of 2 1/2 years later.  I was training pretty heavily at the time, and I was on SSRIs at the time, too.  So, body fat is low, though I suspect my dopaminergic system was seriously compromised. 

[Area-1255]

Normal...but not by much.  That range is incredibly broad, and applies to every male from 18 to 80.  That is the median T level for someone in his 60s or 70s, not for someone in his 40s.  But then again, everyone is different.  It could be my T level has always been on the low side, and bringing myself out of my normal homeostasis with exogamous T screwed me up.  That's why I discovered this forum. 

 

 

The upside of the injectable T is that is raised hematocrit.  As an endurance athlete, this definitely helped.  I think on those two tests when I was off T my Ht was 40 and 41...kind of on the low-ish side. On T, they went up to 45...right in the middle.  I definitely was faster and had more consistent workouts day to day.  I'd like to ethically get it up a little, and if it's related to optimizing NT function and hormonal function, all the better.

 

Things came to a crashing halt and I went into a severe anxious and anhedonic state that I'm just not getting out of 2 1/2 years later.  I was training pretty heavily at the time, and I was on SSRIs at the time, too.  So, body fat is low, though I suspect my dopaminergic system was seriously compromised. 

 

Have you tried anything to reboot the dopaminergic system, or increase expression?

9-me-BC, tianeptine, pitolisant?

Phenyl piracetam and tianeptine both combined would result in a fourfold increase in dopamine receptor  D1-D4 expression , and tianeptine would certainly help rid the excess serotonin if it is still an issue (as in desensitized receptors).

[mindpatch]

 

Normal...but not by much.  That range is incredibly broad, and applies to every male from 18 to 80.  That is the median T level for someone in his 60s or 70s, not for someone in his 40s.  But then again, everyone is different.  It could be my T level has always been on the low side, and bringing myself out of my normal homeostasis with exogamous T screwed me up.  That's why I discovered this forum. 

 

 

The upside of the injectable T is that is raised hematocrit.  As an endurance athlete, this definitely helped.  I think on those two tests when I was off T my Ht was 40 and 41...kind of on the low-ish side. On T, they went up to 45...right in the middle.  I definitely was faster and had more consistent workouts day to day.  I'd like to ethically get it up a little, and if it's related to optimizing NT function and hormonal function, all the better.

 

Things came to a crashing halt and I went into a severe anxious and anhedonic state that I'm just not getting out of 2 1/2 years later.  I was training pretty heavily at the time, and I was on SSRIs at the time, too.  So, body fat is low, though I suspect my dopaminergic system was seriously compromised. 

 

Have you tried anything to reboot the dopaminergic system, or increase expression?

9-me-BC, tianeptine, pitolisant?

Phenyl piracetam and tianeptine both combined would result in a fourfold increase in dopamine receptor  D1-D4 expression , and tianeptine would certainly help rid the excess serotonin if it is still an issue (as in desensitized receptors).

 

I've just recently tried Tianeptine from Ceretropic.  It's fucking amazing.  It's almost too good to be true. For the first time I felt actually happy. I stopped taking it.  My fear is that I'll develop tolerance.  In August I tried a 1 gram purchase of NSI-189 from THT.  I used it in conjunction with Uridine.  I did get my libido back after years of SSRI borderline impotence.  I gotta say, though, the Tianeptine is the shit, but I feel good, too, with dosing NSI and Coluracetam ...almost a hyperfocus and a more stable if not overly happy subjective feelng.  If I can get reassurance that I won't develop tolerance to Tian, then I'll use it consistently, but so far it's been too good to use on a consistent basis.  

 

Was seriously looking into 9-me.   Seems from what I've read that, again, the concern would be down regulation or expression of DA.  I want to get my homeostatic levels and function to be optimal. 

[Area-1255]

 

 

Normal...but not by much.  That range is incredibly broad, and applies to every male from 18 to 80.  That is the median T level for someone in his 60s or 70s, not for someone in his 40s.  But then again, everyone is different.  It could be my T level has always been on the low side, and bringing myself out of my normal homeostasis with exogamous T screwed me up.  That's why I discovered this forum. 

 

 

The upside of the injectable T is that is raised hematocrit.  As an endurance athlete, this definitely helped.  I think on those two tests when I was off T my Ht was 40 and 41...kind of on the low-ish side. On T, they went up to 45...right in the middle.  I definitely was faster and had more consistent workouts day to day.  I'd like to ethically get it up a little, and if it's related to optimizing NT function and hormonal function, all the better.

 

Things came to a crashing halt and I went into a severe anxious and anhedonic state that I'm just not getting out of 2 1/2 years later.  I was training pretty heavily at the time, and I was on SSRIs at the time, too.  So, body fat is low, though I suspect my dopaminergic system was seriously compromised. 

 

Have you tried anything to reboot the dopaminergic system, or increase expression?

9-me-BC, tianeptine, pitolisant?

Phenyl piracetam and tianeptine both combined would result in a fourfold increase in dopamine receptor  D1-D4 expression , and tianeptine would certainly help rid the excess serotonin if it is still an issue (as in desensitized receptors).

 

I've just recently tried Tianeptine from Ceretropic.  It's fucking amazing.  It's almost too good to be true. For the first time I felt actually happy. I stopped taking it.  My fear is that I'll develop tolerance.  In August I tried a 1 gram purchase of NSI-189 from THT.  I used it in conjunction with Uridine.  I did get my libido back after years of SSRI borderline impotence.  I gotta say, though, the Tianeptine is the shit, but I feel good, too, with dosing NSI and Coluracetam ...almost a hyperfocus and a more stable if not overly happy subjective feelng.  If I can get reassurance that I won't develop tolerance to Tian, then I'll use it consistently, but so far it's been too good to use on a consistent basis.  

 

Was seriously looking into 9-me.   Seems from what I've read that, again, the concern would be down regulation or expression of DA.  I want to get my homeostatic levels and function to be optimal. 

 

Makes sense, tianeptine lowers serotonin while increasing dopamine activity, Tolerance is possible, but I highly doubt that this will occur at modest doses, especially if you use other compounds with similar pathways....why not just use nsi-189, tianeptine plus pitolisant?

 

As far as 9-me-bc, I doubt it will do that if the main effect is neuroprotection, you have to weigh out the risks, is the net effect of downregulation going to outweight the net increase in activity coupled with protection?

 

I guess this is where it comes back to hormones, testosterone should be at optimal levels for proper dopamine D2 receptor function and expression, while estrogen should be neither excess nor deficient. 

 

If tianeptine made you feel better, why not take that plus pitolisant or that plus phenylpiracetam....?

As long as you don't have susceptibility to allergies and hay fever etc, I would say pitolisant or another histamine H3 blocker should prevent any dopamine receptor expressional decrease...histamine H3R's are a very potent antagonist / negative modulator to dopamine D1,D2 and GABA function..as well as many others...

 

 

In my experience, if you block / antagonize / wipe out  the main dirty receptors of the human biology - you are better able to adapt and everything is better off, every function is enhanced.

 

 

Those dirty, anti dopamine  and anti hormone receptors, that are also anti - cognitive are....

 

• Histamine H3 receptors.....dirty, decreases a shit ton of both excitory and inhibitory NT's.
• 5-HT1A receptors of serotonin - extremely dirty, inhibits serotonin, dopamine, glutamate etc..very VERY similar to histamine H3 in function.
• Alpha-2-receptors of adrenaline - extremely dirty as well, another autoreceptor negating many NTs, including dopamine.

Edited by Area-1255, 12 December 2014 - 06:22 AM.

[forexworld12]

 

 

Normal...but not by much.  That range is incredibly broad, and applies to every male from 18 to 80.  That is the median T level for someone in his 60s or 70s, not for someone in his 40s.  But then again, everyone is different.  It could be my T level has always been on the low side, and bringing myself out of my normal homeostasis with exogamous T screwed me up.  That's why I discovered this forum. 

 

 

The upside of the injectable T is that is raised hematocrit.  As an endurance athlete, this definitely helped.  I think on those two tests when I was off T my Ht was 40 and 41...kind of on the low-ish side. On T, they went up to 45...right in the middle.  I definitely was faster and had more consistent workouts day to day.  I'd like to ethically get it up a little, and if it's related to optimizing NT function and hormonal function, all the better.

 

Things came to a crashing halt and I went into a severe anxious and anhedonic state that I'm just not getting out of 2 1/2 years later.  I was training pretty heavily at the time, and I was on SSRIs at the time, too.  So, body fat is low, though I suspect my dopaminergic system was seriously compromised. 

 

Have you tried anything to reboot the dopaminergic system, or increase expression?

9-me-BC, tianeptine, pitolisant?

Phenyl piracetam and tianeptine both combined would result in a fourfold increase in dopamine receptor  D1-D4 expression , and tianeptine would certainly help rid the excess serotonin if it is still an issue (as in desensitized receptors).

 

I've just recently tried Tianeptine from Ceretropic.  It's fucking amazing.  It's almost too good to be true. For the first time I felt actually happy. I stopped taking it.  My fear is that I'll develop tolerance.  In August I tried a 1 gram purchase of NSI-189 from THT.  I used it in conjunction with Uridine.  I did get my libido back after years of SSRI borderline impotence.  I gotta say, though, the Tianeptine is the shit, but I feel good, too, with dosing NSI and Coluracetam ...almost a hyperfocus and a more stable if not overly happy subjective feelng.  If I can get reassurance that I won't develop tolerance to Tian, then I'll use it consistently, but so far it's been too good to use on a consistent basis.  

 

Was seriously looking into 9-me.   Seems from what I've read that, again, the concern would be down regulation or expression of DA.  I want to get my homeostatic levels and function to be optimal. 

 

can you provide me a link of where you read of 9-beta downregulation of dopamine ....I think I have read it does the opposite

 

http://onlinelibrary...10.06725.x/full

 

http://www.sciencedi...197018607002483

 

 

 

Yes Heard that a lot about stablon - it destroys Ahnedonia,depression and Brings back libido .. It has to do something which enhances the mesolimbic release of dopamine and increases extracellular concentration and Up-regulates two dopamine receptors - D2 and D3 .... it also lowers serotonin !  Don't know how it reverses As it's not an antagonist at any serotonin receptor !

 

NSI-189 is for brain regeneration ... It's very unclear how it really works - it has something to do with hippocampus growth .... Now NSI-189 has i have read is very effective for those who have Ahnedonia ., it brings back emotions for Ahnedonic people BUT on the contrary it lowers libido ......It might re-wire dopamine but  increase serotonin ...so i don't know how it is for people like me with PSSD

 

CDP choline/Uridine -  CDP choline as we all know It increases dopamine receptors density  increases dopamine and  enhances cellular communication by increasing the availability of neurotransmitters, including acetylcholine, norepinephrine, and dopamine.....so as well as being effective for Ahnedonia I have read a few reports where it reverses PSSD - any ideas how ? because it has no effect on serotonin !

 

 

[Area-1255]

 

 

 

Normal...but not by much.  That range is incredibly broad, and applies to every male from 18 to 80.  That is the median T level for someone in his 60s or 70s, not for someone in his 40s.  But then again, everyone is different.  It could be my T level has always been on the low side, and bringing myself out of my normal homeostasis with exogamous T screwed me up.  That's why I discovered this forum. 

 

 

The upside of the injectable T is that is raised hematocrit.  As an endurance athlete, this definitely helped.  I think on those two tests when I was off T my Ht was 40 and 41...kind of on the low-ish side. On T, they went up to 45...right in the middle.  I definitely was faster and had more consistent workouts day to day.  I'd like to ethically get it up a little, and if it's related to optimizing NT function and hormonal function, all the better.

 

Things came to a crashing halt and I went into a severe anxious and anhedonic state that I'm just not getting out of 2 1/2 years later.  I was training pretty heavily at the time, and I was on SSRIs at the time, too.  So, body fat is low, though I suspect my dopaminergic system was seriously compromised. 

 

Have you tried anything to reboot the dopaminergic system, or increase expression?

9-me-BC, tianeptine, pitolisant?

Phenyl piracetam and tianeptine both combined would result in a fourfold increase in dopamine receptor  D1-D4 expression , and tianeptine would certainly help rid the excess serotonin if it is still an issue (as in desensitized receptors).

 

I've just recently tried Tianeptine from Ceretropic.  It's fucking amazing.  It's almost too good to be true. For the first time I felt actually happy. I stopped taking it.  My fear is that I'll develop tolerance.  In August I tried a 1 gram purchase of NSI-189 from THT.  I used it in conjunction with Uridine.  I did get my libido back after years of SSRI borderline impotence.  I gotta say, though, the Tianeptine is the shit, but I feel good, too, with dosing NSI and Coluracetam ...almost a hyperfocus and a more stable if not overly happy subjective feelng.  If I can get reassurance that I won't develop tolerance to Tian, then I'll use it consistently, but so far it's been too good to use on a consistent basis.  

 

Was seriously looking into 9-me.   Seems from what I've read that, again, the concern would be down regulation or expression of DA.  I want to get my homeostatic levels and function to be optimal. 

 

can you provide me a link of where you read of 9-beta downregulation of dopamine ....I think I have read it does the opposite

 

http://onlinelibrary...10.06725.x/full

 

http://www.sciencedi...197018607002483

 

 

 

Yes Heard that a lot about stablon - it destroys Ahnedonia,depression and Brings back libido .. It has to do something which enhances the mesolimbic release of dopamine and increases extracellular concentration and Up-regulates two dopamine receptors - D2 and D3 .... it also lowers serotonin !  Don't know how it reverses As it's not an antagonist at any serotonin receptor !

 

NSI-189 is for brain regeneration ... It's very unclear how it really works - it has something to do with hippocampus growth .... Now NSI-189 has i have read is very effective for those who have Ahnedonia ., it brings back emotions for Ahnedonic people BUT on the contrary it lowers libido ......It might re-wire dopamine but  increase serotonin ...so i don't know how it is for people like me with PSSD

 

CDP choline/Uridine -  CDP choline as we all know It increases dopamine receptors density  increases dopamine and  enhances cellular communication by increasing the availability of neurotransmitters, including acetylcholine, norepinephrine, and dopamine.....so as well as being effective for Ahnedonia I have read a few reports where it reverses PSSD - any ideas how ? because it has no effect on serotonin !

 

Forex, excellent post my man!

Very smart , and this is kinda what I was apting to point out!

 

As far as tianpetine, it's a nice tool and nice synergist - I've heard of a lot of people getting benefit from it.

However, some people will get bradycardia (low heart rate) from it due to the effects on u-opioid receptors as an agonist.

 

Never combine opioids with tianeptine! 

 

However, you can take something that blocks kappa opioid receptors with tianeptine, which would increase it's prosexual effect - such as e.g amentoflavone with tianeptine....this might, in theory be very effective and would also counter some* of the bradycardia with tianeptine.

[Area-1255]

I wonder if tianeptine would have other effects on the corticosteroid system though...this is something I have yet to research. I would imagine it would blunt cortisol through the novel pathways listed above.

[Area-1255]

Certainly though, the subjective effects of some of the traditional AD's differ almost solely by their variation in sigma-receptor occupation/affinity, or their cytochrome binding potentials.

[Area-1255]

Also some anxiolytics; pharma; klonopine, xanax, etc reduce corticotropin expression and mRNA, AND ESPECIALLY THE MOOD STABILIZER DEPAKOTE.....DECREASES CRH / CORTISOL mRNA!!

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3129846/

[forexworld12]

  In August I tried a 1 gram purchase of NSI-189 from THT.  I used it in conjunction with Uridine.  I did get my libido back after years of SSRI borderline impotence. 

 

 ...NSI-189 is reported to be anti-Ahnedonic .... It abolishes and returns the lost emotions but on the same time it has been reported to reduce libido

Ahnedonia and libido are interconnected so quite strange how one a drug reverse ahnedonia but reduces libido 

[Area-1255]

 

  In August I tried a 1 gram purchase of NSI-189 from THT.  I used it in conjunction with Uridine.  I did get my libido back after years of SSRI borderline impotence. 

 

 ...NSI-189 is reported to be anti-Ahnedonic .... It abolishes and returns the lost emotions but on the same time it has been reported to reduce libido

Ahnedonia and libido are interconnected so quite strange how one a drug reverse ahnedonia but reduces libido 

 

Not really, the most asexual people on Earth are the people who get off on power and have no classical libido. Yet , they are hypomanic, and power is their sexual release.

[forexworld12]

really ? 

 

About NSI-189 - I haven't read anything more amazing in abolishing Ahnedonia than this ...It brings back all kinds of real emotions completely that was pre SSRI .it's just a state of being Happy and the ability to feel love or sadness like normal people do .. Ithas antideprssant qualities like being more positive.. It should be classified as Ant-ahnedonia instead of antidepressant in medical science ..

It doesn't help other kinds of depression where lack of emotions in not involved ...

 

it's kind of strange since it doesn't seem to have affinity for Serotonin or Dopamine receptor that are highly involved in apathy..the mechanism in Unknown 

It also reduces Libido in majority of the people 

 

Jason, what do you think how will it effect PSSD ?

 

Edited by forexworld12, 24 December 2014 - 04:49 PM.

[Area-1255]

really ? 

 

About NSI-189 - I haven't read anything more amazing in abolishing Ahnedonia than this ...It brings back all kinds of real emotions completely that was pre SSRI .it's just a state of being Happy and the ability to feel love or sadness like normal people do .. Ithas antideprssant qualities like being more positive.. It should be classified as Ant-ahnedonia instead of antidepressant in medical science ..

It doesn't help other kinds of depression where lack of emotions in not involved ...

 

it's kind of strange since it doesn't seem to have affinity for Serotonin or Dopamine receptor that are highly involved in apathy..the mechanism in Unknown 

It also reduces Libido in majority of the people 

 

Jason, what do you think how will it effect PSSD ?

It could help, but mainly because of the neuro-trophic properties....and maybe because of the positive effect on mood.

[Son of Perdition]

how did a dht thread get turned into a pssd / anhedonia thread ?