280 replies to this topic

[BasicBiO]

Subsequent dosing of Dehydromestelone has been more pleasant or at least, less noticeable in the irritability department. Sticking with low 25-50mg doses seems to provide a small boost in alertness and may* be aiding in the workout department although I was making good progress prior to experimenting with it. Physique seems a bit drier..eg less estrogenic but I haven't noticed much in the libido department. My libido has been trashed for the last year, so although I was hoping for a big boost there has not been much.  After many PH cycles now at age 42, it's probably time to phase into TRT. This compound could potentially be a great ancillary AI treatment to replace adex or letro and perhaps avoid the lipid profile damaging effects these drugs have.

[Area-1255]

Subsequent dosing of Dehydromestelone has been more pleasant or at least, less noticeable in the irritability department. Sticking with low 25-50mg doses seems to provide a small boost in alertness and may* be aiding in the workout department although I was making good progress prior to experimenting with it. Physique seems a bit drier..eg less estrogenic but I haven't noticed much in the libido department. My libido has been trashed for the last year, so although I was hoping for a big boost there has not been much.  After many PH cycles now at age 42, it's probably time to phase into TRT. This compound could potentially be a great ancillary AI treatment to replace adex or letro and perhaps avoid the lipid profile damaging effects these drugs have.

DHT is hit or miss as far as libido...it's more about overall hormone ratios...and DHT maintains erectile function and basic instincts as well as confidence...it ITSELF doesn't empower the male libido - which is more about dopamine, histamine, glutamate, nitric oxide etc.....oxytocin and vasopressin are incredibly important as well  as the ratio between dopamine and serotonin, and GABA and glutamate.

[Area-1255]

Subsequent dosing of Dehydromestelone has been more pleasant or at least, less noticeable in the irritability department. Sticking with low 25-50mg doses seems to provide a small boost in alertness and may* be aiding in the workout department although I was making good progress prior to experimenting with it. Physique seems a bit drier..eg less estrogenic but I haven't noticed much in the libido department. My libido has been trashed for the last year, so although I was hoping for a big boost there has not been much.  After many PH cycles now at age 42, it's probably time to phase into TRT. This compound could potentially be a great ancillary AI treatment to replace adex or letro and perhaps avoid the lipid profile damaging effects these drugs have.

DHT is hit or miss as far as libido goes, and DHT doesn't  / isn't responsible for ( DIRECTLY ) empowering the classical male "libido" - DHT is more about male sexual function in terms of erectile function, sociality, confidence - it does often raise libido but ONLY BECAUSE it manifests as that through increased confidence and re-balancing the whole hormone ratio...without the proper dopamine / serotonin balance, and GABA;glutamate ratio....as well as estradiol being in the proper range (or at least nitric oxide synthase) - DHT ITSELF is incapable of providing libido.

[mindpatch]

 

Subsequent dosing of Dehydromestelone has been more pleasant or at least, less noticeable in the irritability department. Sticking with low 25-50mg doses seems to provide a small boost in alertness and may* be aiding in the workout department although I was making good progress prior to experimenting with it. Physique seems a bit drier..eg less estrogenic but I haven't noticed much in the libido department. My libido has been trashed for the last year, so although I was hoping for a big boost there has not been much.  After many PH cycles now at age 42, it's probably time to phase into TRT. This compound could potentially be a great ancillary AI treatment to replace adex or letro and perhaps avoid the lipid profile damaging effects these drugs have.

DHT is hit or miss as far as libido...it's more about overall hormone ratios...and DHT maintains erectile function and basic instincts as well as confidence...it ITSELF doesn't empower the male libido - which is more about dopamine, histamine, glutamate, nitric oxide etc.....oxytocin and vasopressin are incredibly important as well  as the ratio between dopamine and serotonin, and GABA and glutamate.

 

I'm still aiming to pinpoint where my individual ratios may have been disrupted to cause a drop in libido, and how this relates to normal aging. What are the processes that result in a reduction in libido as one ages?  Is the decline abrupt, which seems to have been the case with me?  Is it due to testosterone reduction?  What makes it a little trickier on my part is that I was on SSRIs for so long, and I have good reason to believe that they disrupted my libido.  After going through a phase of severe anxiety, depression and anhedonia, I finally feel like I've gotten a handle on it through modulation of my glutamate/GABA ratio through the use of memantine, tianeptine and NSI-189 - I feel a lot better,dognitively and emotionally.   My libido is kind of hit and miss.  Sometimes it's there, but it's not nearly what it was five years ago.  I think my T levels are low/normal with very low estradiol

[Area-1255]

 

 

Subsequent dosing of Dehydromestelone has been more pleasant or at least, less noticeable in the irritability department. Sticking with low 25-50mg doses seems to provide a small boost in alertness and may* be aiding in the workout department although I was making good progress prior to experimenting with it. Physique seems a bit drier..eg less estrogenic but I haven't noticed much in the libido department. My libido has been trashed for the last year, so although I was hoping for a big boost there has not been much.  After many PH cycles now at age 42, it's probably time to phase into TRT. This compound could potentially be a great ancillary AI treatment to replace adex or letro and perhaps avoid the lipid profile damaging effects these drugs have.

DHT is hit or miss as far as libido...it's more about overall hormone ratios...and DHT maintains erectile function and basic instincts as well as confidence...it ITSELF doesn't empower the male libido - which is more about dopamine, histamine, glutamate, nitric oxide etc.....oxytocin and vasopressin are incredibly important as well  as the ratio between dopamine and serotonin, and GABA and glutamate.

 

I'm still aiming to pinpoint where my individual ratios may have been disrupted to cause a drop in libido, and how this relates to normal aging. What are the processes that result in a reduction in libido as one ages?  Is the decline abrupt, which seems to have been the case with me?  Is it due to testosterone reduction?  What makes it a little trickier on my part is that I was on SSRIs for so long, and I have good reason to believe that they disrupted my libido.  After going through a phase of severe anxiety, depression and anhedonia, I finally feel like I've gotten a handle on it through modulation of my glutamate/GABA ratio through the use of memantine, tianeptine and NSI-189 - I feel a lot better,dognitively and emotionally.   My libido is kind of hit and miss.  Sometimes it's there, but it's not nearly what it was five years ago.  I think my T levels are low/normal with very low estradiol

 

The SSRI's probably dampened both your emotional and sexual responses...they often disrupt dopaminergic networks and can certainly reduce the overall activity of the sexual brain regions such as the PVN and MPOA. You can have extremely high test levels and have ZERO libido...completely proven...it's about the ratio - testosterone can give you the confidence (providing other social, economic and psychological factors are re-inforcing it) and will certainly help in regards to stamina and overall erection quality but it itself is merely a mediator of classical libido...there are many other factors besides testosterone that are even more necessary for libido.

 

I've met and spoke with several individuals who have had literally zero estrogen levels and still have high libido, then there are some who have zero E2 or they end up using too much AI and completely lose their libido...so it comes down to genetics and psycho-social factors as well....given the differences in social lives but a lot of how we determine our sexual drive is based on how we see ourselves and what our confidence level is like as well as our general state of mind - and ESPECIALLY, stress levels.

 

It's a portion of that "homeostatic factor" that is so involved with the qualitative analysis of male libido ...testosterone and nitric oxide are both in that realm but underlying just those levels themselves are the compositions of each person or subjects respective life activities and social interactions.

 

Testosterone seems to be a "protector" against stress related issues and an antagonist to cortisol; which we all know can hinder sexual function , especially with time.

 

Read these few articles to get a better picture as well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2736801/

http://www.peaktesto...n_Cortisol.aspx

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8208779

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14622181

[BasicBiO]

Yep. Libido is a tricky widget.  I have historically had ridiculously high libido up until about 2 years ago when a series of very stressful events all hit at once and then it flatlined. Stress/life issues have been resolved but the damage was done. Bloodwork has revealed decent T levels(675), low E2 (too much AI) and virtually no DHEA. I've addressed DHEA and DA levels via direct supplementation (sublingual DHEA and Deprenyl) and I do feel better mentally overall. Libido has crept back up a little, but it is still greatly diminished. I may opt for more fine tuned bloodwork and work with a TRT doc this year..if I can afford it.

 

If dehydromestelone can serve as an arimidex replacement, then I will be happy with my purchase but I did have higher hopes.

[Area-1255]

Yep. Libido is a tricky widget. I have historically had ridiculously high libido up until about 2 years ago when a series of very stressful events all hit at once and then it flatlined. Stress/life issues have been resolved but the damage was done. Bloodwork has revealed decent T levels(675), low E2 (too much AI) and virtually no DHEA. I've addressed DHEA and DA levels via direct supplementation (sublingual DHEA and Deprenyl) and I do feel better mentally overall. Libido has crept back up a little, but it is still greatly diminished. I may opt for more fine tuned bloodwork and work with a TRT doc this year..if I can afford it.

If dehydromestelone can serve as an arimidex replacement, then I will be happy with my purchase but I did have higher hopes.

Have you tried amentoflavone with a dopaminergic? Amentoflavone is a natural K-opioid antagonist, using it will enhance NOS and oxytocin as well as act as a PDE inhibitor.

Use it with PowerFULL or L-Dopa extracts.

Edited by Area-1255, 18 March 2015 - 04:12 AM.

[Son of Perdition]

ayyy, Just used a combo plattaH of amentoflavone and creatine as Area suggested, strong stuff!

this is third day so far but damn! creatine usually doesn't give pumps but amento must be doing it, its gotta be equal to n.o explode , pretty impressive for one supp!!!

[VICREP]

Just wanting to give some anecdotal feedback of my own experience with Fin.

 

There is no doubt in my mind systematically lowering DHT has severely affected my mental and physical health. The physical changes are clear as day so cannot be disputed. The psychological effects are probably confounded by my own mental health issues but the whole has definitely sunk deeper over the last 14 months whilst I have been on Fin.

 

Physical changes:

- Higher voice (I feel this is significant)

- Darker, thicker, more pronounced eyelashes (actually don't mind this)

- Significant reduction in body hair. I would say a 50% reduction in hair density and 25% in amount.

- Significant reduction in facial hair

- Softer, fatter body and face

- Harder to lose weight

- Loss of strength, harder to gain strength

- Reduced erection quality and size

- Thinner, softer eyebrows

- Jaw appears thinner

 

Psychological

- Less confidence

- Reduced libidio

- Reduced aggression (like competitiveness)

- More 'moody'

- Fatigue

 

As a result of this I'm tapering myself off Fin. I just started using the topical anti-androgen RU58841. I'm optimistic it will at least slow or halt my hair loss from the reports online.

 

I would like to use Minoxidil but the chance of accelerated aging of skin, puffy face, heart problems, etc is too much for me.

[Area-1255]

Yup, those are definitely low DHT type symptoms...the struggle will get worse...

Let this post stand as a reminder of why people shouldn't use FINA or any other DHT inhibiting drugs / hair loss / prostate drugs..if you have an issue with your prostate try estrogen modulation therapy, which is much more effective, if you MUST get into the pharma class, use an alpha blocker, not something that kills your hormone ratio.

Just wanting to give some anecdotal feedback of my own experience with Fin.

 

There is no doubt in my mind systematically lowering DHT has severely affected my mental and physical health. The physical changes are clear as day so cannot be disputed. The psychological effects are probably confounded by my own mental health issues but the whole has definitely sunk deeper over the last 14 months whilst I have been on Fin.

 

Physical changes:

- Higher voice (I feel this is significant)

- Darker, thicker, more pronounced eyelashes (actually don't mind this)

- Significant reduction in body hair. I would say a 50% reduction in hair density and 25% in amount.

- Significant reduction in facial hair

- Softer, fatter body and face

- Harder to lose weight

- Loss of strength, harder to gain strength

- Reduced erection quality and size

- Thinner, softer eyebrows

- Jaw appears thinner

 

Psychological

- Less confidence

- Reduced libidio

- Reduced aggression (like competitiveness)

- More 'moody'

- Fatigue

 

As a result of this I'm tapering myself off Fin. I just started using the topical anti-androgen RU58841. I'm optimistic it will at least slow or halt my hair loss from the reports online.

 

I would like to use Minoxidil but the chance of accelerated aging of skin, puffy face, heart problems, etc is too much for me.

 

[Area-1255]

I'm glad this thread turned out like it did - it shows what can be done and how each side can be flipped to re-optimize chemistry. 

[nowayout]

I would like to use Minoxidil but the chance of accelerated aging of skin, puffy face, heart problems, etc is too much for me.

 

Topical minoxidil doesn't have heart problems as a side effect. 

 

[Area-1255]

 

I would like to use Minoxidil but the chance of accelerated aging of skin, puffy face, heart problems, etc is too much for me.

 

Topical minoxidil doesn't have heart problems as a side effect. 

 

 

Yeah, as far as I know that drug is pretty safe. It's the anti-androgens and such you have to be worried about...premature death in a pill...not to mention depression.

[Son of Perdition]

i use minodoxil before. 

[Area-1255]

i use minodoxil before. 

It's definitely safer than FINA.

[Area-1255]

Anybody else try epi-andro here?

[Area-1255]

Another interesting compound is Winstrol.

[Son of Perdition]

Anybody else try epi-andro here?

IMO it nothing special, biov is very low.

[noot_in_the_sky]

Hey guys, I just saw this article in ergo-log, which mention a case of a 35yr old man who took  Butea superba.  This cause his DHT to raise to 1512 picograms per millilitre (normal range is 250 and 990 picograms per millilitre)

 

Link to article:

http://www.ergo-log....ea-superba.html

 

Link to case:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3354878/

[Area-1255]

Hey guys, I just saw this article in ergo-log, which mention a case of a 35yr old man who took  Butea superba.  This cause his DHT to raise to 1512 picograms per millilitre (normal range is 250 and 990 picograms per millilitre)

 

Link to article:

http://www.ergo-log....ea-superba.html

 

Link to case:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3354878/

I remember reading something like that years ago, it kinda makes sense because cAMP enhances steroidogenesis and it also increases LH-induced testosterone levels. Butea superba inhibits cAMP-PDE's - see this post.

Edited by Area-1255, 25 April 2015 - 03:02 PM.

[Brazzo]

Does anyone know something about the safety of RU58841?

Some people report side effects that fit into low DHT symptoms...I hoped that Ru doesen't get systematically absorbed, but after reading so many reports, I'm not sure.

 

[Area-1255]

Does anyone know something about the safety of RU58841?

Some people report side effects that fit into low DHT symptoms...I hoped that Ru doesen't get systematically absorbed, but after reading so many reports, I'm not sure.

Anything you put on your skin can absorb into your body, many of us absorb hormones, drugs and other substances, but usually in insignificant amounts - just by going to public places and touching door knobs..especially at doctor's offices or hospitals...

 

That's why generally, you should never put a drug on your skin if you don't want it to absorb into your body. An example is andractim gel, it's great for its libidogenic effects, and it's effects on mentality, but if you don't wash your hands after using it , it can absorb into other peoples blood when you are touching doorknobs or other faculties, or tables etc...or if you put it on your dick, it can absorb into your girl..possibly creating androgenic side-effects and even extending into systemic effects..every single peripheral organ - is somewhat connected to layered blood vessels which MUST be there by nature in order to sustain tissue growth or regulation of cells on the outer layer. 

 

 

[Area-1255]

Also those which have a better BBB penetration will of course have more neurologic effects, but also those with dual MOA will have less suitability to those with hormonal issues. Of that class at least.

[Yunasa]

Also those which have a better BBB penetration will of course have more neurologic effects, but also those with dual MOA will have less suitability to those with hormonal issues. Of that class at least.

agreed.

[Area-1255]

If NE were consistently injected over the period of 72 hours, the stAR enzymes would rise, but after day four the cortisol becomes significant, and starts to drop the enzymes.

[Area-1255]

Many thanks to TUBZY for this one.

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3426586

 

Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1987 Dec 16;149(2):482-7.

Specific stimulation of steroid 5 alpha-reductase solubilized from rat liver microsomes by endogenous phosphatidylserine.

Ichihara K1, Tanaka C.

Author information

 

Abstract

Dilauroylphosphatidylcholine caused a marked increase in progesterone 5 alpha-reductase activity solubilized from rat liver microsomes, whereas naturally occurring phosphatidylcholines from biological sources as well as dioleoylphosphatidylcholine had not effect on the activity. Therefore, the stimulatory effect of phospholipids normally found in rat liver microsomes was examined. The lipid extracts were prepared from the fraction which was freed from 5 alpha-reductase activity by DEAE-cellulose chromatography, and found to exhibit a strong stimulatory effect. The lipid extracts were then separated into phosphatidylserine, phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylethanolamine by chromatography on silicic acid column and preparative thin-layer plate. Among these endogenous phospholipids, only phosphatidylserine stimulated the 5 alpha-reductase, suggesting that the lipid requirement is specific for phosphatidylserine in steroid 5 alpha-reductase from liver microsomes.

PMID:   3426586   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Tubzy]

Does anyone know something about the safety of RU58841?
Some people report side effects that fit into low DHT symptoms...I hoped that Ru doesen't get systematically absorbed, but after reading so many reports, I'm not sure.

I have been on RU for over a year now. I use a small amount about 30mg or so a night. It definitely helped as I started it when I came off propecia. I still have maintained a lot of what I had and it significantly cut down scalp MPB itch.

I was using 50mg or more and I do believe it aborbed too much systematically. Only stuff I use now is RU, keto shampoo, follicure para caspa (out performed keto) and emu oil. I was on minox for 3 years and my skin looks 20x better after dropping it. I didn't realize it was minox but it was causing slight facial bloating and dark circles under my eyes so I stopped it. After being off minox for two months my skin looks great and no more bloating (jawline defined etc.).

Also, I have to thank area 1255 for the DHT article and advice. I had both mental and sexual side effects after coming of finasteride. I'm about 70 to 80 percent recovered from finasteride after following his protocol with an addition of a few other supplements like PS and alpha gpc. I'm hoping another month or two I should be 100%.

Edited by Tubzy, 01 May 2015 - 02:00 PM.

[Area-1255]

Great to hear your story, and Definitely should be encouraging to others who may speculate or be hesitant .

 

 

Does anyone know something about the safety of RU58841?
Some people report side effects that fit into low DHT symptoms...I hoped that Ru doesen't get systematically absorbed, but after reading so many reports, I'm not sure.

I have been on RU for over a year now. I use a small amount about 30mg or so a night. It definitely helped as I started it when I came off propecia. I still have maintained a lot of what I had and it significantly cut down scalp MPB itch.

I was using 50mg or more and I do believe it aborbed too much systematically. Only stuff I use now is RU, keto shampoo, follicure para caspa (out performed keto) and emu oil. I was on minox for 3 years and my skin looks 20x better after dropping it. I didn't realize it was minox but it was causing slight facial bloating and dark circles under my eyes so I stopped it. After being off minox for two months my skin looks great and no more bloating (jawline defined etc.).

Also, I have to thank area 1255 for the DHT article and advice. I had both mental and sexual side effects after coming of finasteride. I'm about 70 to 80 percent recovered from finasteride after following his protocol with an addition of a few other supplements like PS and alpha gpc. I'm hoping another month or two I should be 100%.

 

 

[Area-1255]

I wonder what that "Validating" logo is about on SoP's profile. Updated source link on second page of Article.

[DeadBrain]

I wonder what that "Validating" logo is about on SoP's profile. Updated source link on second page of Article.

i think it mean he didnt activate yet or some shit???