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DHT and the Brain {Area-1255} {NearlyFamous}

dht and the brain androgens what is dht dihydrotestostero

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#31 Area-1255

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 08:27 PM

Most guys function well on finasteride despite the horror stories, although there is definitely a risk.

 

There are new treatments in the horizon, wnt based stuff like what the company histogen is developing. These have already been proven to be effective in studies too.

 

Go to http://www.balanceha...-stem-cells.pdf or www.histogen.com for examples. Also the companies follica and replicel both have very promising treatments. The keyword for all these == no messing with DHT and most likely a better potential for regrowth than finasteride and/or minox.

With some of these treatments you could probably halt hairloss and regrow hair over time with one or a few rounds of injections a year (after an initial loading phase) instead of taking fina every day.

 

-> The only problem is that there seems to be a hair-loss-cure equivivalent to "development hell". I'm pretty sure that some of these cures can be reproduced with a group-buy type effort, and being the first to sell a real effective hair-loss cure would mean $$$$$ for that person/organization. Having some of the resident providers of "future medicines" getting into this market would be a great win/win for them and many ppl who are genetically programmed to go bald (including many many women who are poor responders to dht based treatments).

 

Your genes sets a framework for a lot of your life, things you can do, things you cannot do ect, and hairloss is one of those things that equals a disadvantage for almost everyone who is affected by it without providing any advantages in return (especially when it starts @ an early age). One of the great promises of technological advancement and transhumanism is the ability to override the effect of such randomly selected genetical disadvantages that sets the tone for your life, and instead replacing it with the ability to decide what you want regardless of what nature selected for you. THAT is REAL freedom!

There are some people who benefit from 5-ARI's, but it's a matter of how much suppression, by what compound and your genetic determinants.  Some people have over the top DHT levels to begin with, so much they aren't receiving some of the anabolic effects of Testosterone. However, this is rare in most of the population; in which there is a significant decline in total Testosterone and DHT in comparison with years ago. There are so many anti-androgen compounds (both natural and pharma), but one thing that always bothered me, is that these same AA compounds or chemicals that have that effect, are often promoted for the wrong reasons, and tend not to inform people the possible negative side-effects.

 

Also there are a lot of bodybuilding supplements; namely Testosterone boosters that contain DIM (Dindolymethane) - a chemical found in Broccoli that can mildly inhibit Estrogen -->Estradiol conversion. - that neglect to mention that DIM (although slightly anti estrogenic) can also act as an anti-androgen. 

 

In fact, out of many of the anti-estrogen products out there, I've only found three (but only tried 8) that had significant effects on my bloodwork (estrogen levels). I do a lot of things for testing/experimentations sake - and hope to expose some of the arbitrary ingredients and sales pitch's gone too far.

 

The three "natural AI's" that I have found to have not only effect on my bloodwork, but also overall well-being are.

1.) PES Erase Pro

2.) DS Nutrition Triazole

3.) iForce Nutrition Intimidate SRT

 

 

Sad, but true. 


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#32 Area-1255

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 06:27 AM

Most guys function well on finasteride despite the horror stories, although there is definitely a risk.

 

There are new treatments in the horizon, wnt based stuff like what the company histogen is developing. These have already been proven to be effective in studies too.

 

Go to http://www.balanceha...-stem-cells.pdf or www.histogen.com for examples. Also the companies follica and replicel both have very promising treatments. The keyword for all these == no messing with DHT and most likely a better potential for regrowth than finasteride and/or minox.

With some of these treatments you could probably halt hairloss and regrow hair over time with one or a few rounds of injections a year (after an initial loading phase) instead of taking fina every day.

 

-> The only problem is that there seems to be a hair-loss-cure equivivalent to "development hell". I'm pretty sure that some of these cures can be reproduced with a group-buy type effort, and being the first to sell a real effective hair-loss cure would mean $$$$$ for that person/organization. Having some of the resident providers of "future medicines" getting into this market would be a great win/win for them and many ppl who are genetically programmed to go bald (including many many women who are poor responders to dht based treatments).

 

Your genes sets a framework for a lot of your life, things you can do, things you cannot do ect, and hairloss is one of those things that equals a disadvantage for almost everyone who is affected by it without providing any advantages in return (especially when it starts @ an early age). One of the great promises of technological advancement and transhumanism is the ability to override the effect of such randomly selected genetical disadvantages that sets the tone for your life, and instead replacing it with the ability to decide what you want regardless of what nature selected for you. THAT is REAL freedom!

Your genes do set a lot of it, but not all of it - one of the best objectives for anyone should be improvising / taking advantage of the good part of your genes - instead of focusing on all the neg's. This is what makes successful people, having a disposition and facing it, setting it aside for a better YOU.


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#33 Area-1255

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 12:32 AM

Also I'm not sure if this one was seen yet - but this is valuable information for those looking to raise Natty DHT levels. http://area1255.blog...-naturally.html


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#34 Area-1255

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:32 PM

Updated the article with more information on direct serotonin subtype related effects.


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#35 Jim Morrison

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 06:56 PM

Personally I stopped fin after using it for 7 yrs. After observing how much my memory and particularly my mood have improved since that day, I would not even consider a herbal 5AR inhibitor now. There are actually 3 isoforms of 5AR, Finasteride inhibits 2 potently and one slightly. These enzymes are of critical importance for the central nervous system. They are for instance invoved in the synthesis of certain neuroprotective hormones such as prolactin. Nobody knows what the long term effects of inhibiting those enzymes are. The longest clinical finasteride trials are about 10 yrs now (if I remember this correctly). It is quite possible that in 20-30 yrs from now all long term Finasteride users will show signs of demyelination or other nasty symptoms. Anyways, if you are really interested in the biology of 5AR in the CNS and the dangers of inhibiting them read here:

http://www.hairlossh...&keyword1=brain

Also I would stay away from research chemicals such as RU. Lots of the topical stuff is absorbed systemically and can potentially have much worse effects than fina.
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#36 Area-1255

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 08:13 PM

Personally I stopped fin after using it for 7 yrs. After observing how much my memory and particularly my mood have improved since that day, I would not even consider a herbal 5AR inhibitor now. There are actually 3 isoforms of 5AR, Finasteride inhibits 2 potently and one slightly. These enzymes are of critical importance for the central nervous system. They are for instance invoved in the synthesis of certain neuroprotective hormones such as prolactin. Nobody knows what the long term effects of inhibiting those enzymes are. The longest clinical finasteride trials are about 10 yrs now (if I remember this correctly). It is quite possible that in 20-30 yrs from now all long term Finasteride users will show signs of demyelination or other nasty symptoms. Anyways, if you are really interested in the biology of 5AR in the CNS and the dangers of inhibiting them read here:

http://www.hairlossh...&keyword1=brain

Also I would stay away from research chemicals such as RU. Lots of the topical stuff is absorbed systemically and can potentially have much worse effects than fina.

Very good points brotha! 7 years is a pretty lengthy time, especially for 5-ARI's. I remember taking beta-sitosterol for a few weeks - on the third my memory and energy production was already taking a hit. It's very clear that androgens; particularly DHT and 3-alpha-diol have very neuroprotective effects.


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#37 Area-1255

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 12:01 AM

Also because DHT has an effect on thyroid hormone as stated - it would make sense that low DHT would cause adrenal issues.


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#38 Area-1255

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 10:48 PM

DHT also has an effect on expression - it has potential interest as a nootropic hormone. Just think about all the models of high DHT...

Like King Hyperion in the movie "The Immortals" - a master strategist and confident alpha male - capable of persuading armies.


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#39 Area-1255

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 07:34 PM

Do any of you have experience with PH's (legal) or other similar supplements?


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#40 Area-1255

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 08:00 PM

I also have found that long-term use of winny seems to decrease SHBG and increase Free T more then standard PH's or other products, it's interesting how some compounds are more region specific and exert different effects.


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#41 Area-1255

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 10:59 PM

High DHT Low Estrogen PhenoType - Another Article showing much of the same but Just How Delicate Hormone Balance really Is


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#42 aarfai

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 09:49 PM

Very informative! I plan to get bloodwork done and follow a similar protocol


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#43 Area-1255

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 09:51 PM

Very informative! I plan to get bloodwork done and follow a similar protocol

Nobody else covers it all like Area-1255 ;)


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#44 noot_in_the_sky

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 11:42 AM

You can also use sorghum oil to promote 5-Alpha Reductase. 

 

 

http://suppversity.b...t-use-rice.html


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#45 Area-1255

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 02:36 PM

You can also use sorghum oil to promote 5-Alpha Reductase. 

 

 

http://suppversity.b...t-use-rice.html

Wow. Very nice read, thanks!


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#46 Area-1255

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:55 AM

here's the E2 specific article


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#47 Area-1255

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 04:05 PM

http://area1255.blog...en-high-e2.html


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#48 Area-1255

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 01:44 AM

Also should be noted that corticosteroids are inverse regulators of 5-AR...YET, ironically insulin resistance causes the increase in 5-AR so half the time, it doesn't end up looking like a sustainable increase.


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#49 Area-1255

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Posted 28 September 2014 - 06:13 PM

Insulin...not that I am recommending one shoots up insulin for this purpose --- but it does raise 5-AR.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20810561

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22454147


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#50 Area-1255

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 03:24 PM

For the same note there is a correlation between prolactin and 5-alpha-reductase, with both high and low prolactin causing significant enzyme alterations.


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#51 noot_in_the_sky

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 12:43 AM

For the same note there is a correlation between prolactin and 5-alpha-reductase, with both high and low prolactin causing significant enzyme alterations.

 

What do you mean by "high and low prolactin causing significant enzyme alterations"? Do you mean that you get a rise in 5 alpha reductase with both low and high prolactin?


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#52 Area-1255

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 12:47 AM

 

For the same note there is a correlation between prolactin and 5-alpha-reductase, with both high and low prolactin causing significant enzyme alterations.

 

What do you mean by "high and low prolactin causing significant enzyme alterations"? Do you mean that you get a rise in 5 alpha reductase with both low and high prolactin?

 

Prolactin increases 5-alpha-reductase...thus stimulating dht production from testosterone...low levels of prolactin are then associated with hypoandrogenism in some cases...or at least lowered DHT.

http://area1255.blog...tin-in-men.html

I can also vouch for this..when my prolactin levels were elevated on ssri's a few years back, my dht levels also rose, while estrogen and testosterone levels fell.


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#53 noot_in_the_sky

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 01:04 AM

Thanks,  well I guess that answers the question: "why do men get a prolactin rush after ejaculation?"  Cuz it will increase DHT and therefore replenish sperm.

 

I also wounder if Dopamine agonist would decrease DHT, since I remember some studies where cabergoline & pramipexole didn't affected testosterone levels.  Nonetheless, I don't recall if it affected DHT.

 

Also you in this study, it show a 500% percent increase in insulin from fasting by consuming 24g of protein:

aa3.gif

 

 

Endocrine responses to the oral ingestion of a physiological dose of essential amino acids in humans.

 

Abstract

The response of insulin, human growth hormone (hGH), cortisol, leptin and ghrelin, in addition to various metabolic parameters, was measured at 10 minute intervals following the oral ingestion of a standardised physiological dose of essential amino acids (AA). Twenty-eight healthy male, fasted volunteers (aged 18-40 yrs, BMI 18.0-24.5 kg/m(2)) took part in the study; 13 volunteers in the AA group, nine subjects in an iso-caloric control group, and a further six subjects served as fasting controls. Twenty minutes after ingestion, insulin reached peak concentrations that were up to 500% higher than basal values (P<0.0001). The AA group and iso-caloric control group showed a similar insulin response. AA ingestion led to an increase in hGH secretion with maximum concentrations being 2100+/-1013% higher than the basal values (P<0.0001). In contrast, no changes in hGH concentrations were observed in the iso-caloric controls; in the fasting controls only a slight increase in hGH was found towards the end of the fasting period. While cortisol decreased significantly (P<0.01) during the study in the AA group, neither control group showed a significant change in this parameter. Changes in leptin levels remained insignificant in all three groups, whereas ghrelin showed a different profile in each of the three groups, i.e. a continuous rise towards the end of the study period (P<0.001) in the AA group, a less significant effect for the fasting group, and no effect at all in the iso-caloric control group. There was no significant correlation between the concentrations or the area under curve of the hormones measured in any of the groups. The endocrine data provided in this study indicate that a single bolus of essential AA in fasted individuals is associated with both anabolic and catabolic hormonal responses.

 


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#54 Area-1255

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 01:50 AM

 

Thanks,  well I guess that answers the question: "why do men get a prolactin rush after ejaculation?"  Cuz it will increase DHT and therefore replenish sperm.

 

I also wounder if Dopamine agonist would decrease DHT, since I remember some studies where cabergoline & pramipexole didn't affected testosterone levels.  Nonetheless, I don't recall if it affected DHT.

 

Also you in this study, it show a 500% percent increase in insulin from fasting by consuming 24g of protein:

aa3.gif

 

 

Endocrine responses to the oral ingestion of a physiological dose of essential amino acids in humans.

 

Abstract

The response of insulin, human growth hormone (hGH), cortisol, leptin and ghrelin, in addition to various metabolic parameters, was measured at 10 minute intervals following the oral ingestion of a standardised physiological dose of essential amino acids (AA). Twenty-eight healthy male, fasted volunteers (aged 18-40 yrs, BMI 18.0-24.5 kg/m(2)) took part in the study; 13 volunteers in the AA group, nine subjects in an iso-caloric control group, and a further six subjects served as fasting controls. Twenty minutes after ingestion, insulin reached peak concentrations that were up to 500% higher than basal values (P<0.0001). The AA group and iso-caloric control group showed a similar insulin response. AA ingestion led to an increase in hGH secretion with maximum concentrations being 2100+/-1013% higher than the basal values (P<0.0001). In contrast, no changes in hGH concentrations were observed in the iso-caloric controls; in the fasting controls only a slight increase in hGH was found towards the end of the fasting period. While cortisol decreased significantly (P<0.01) during the study in the AA group, neither control group showed a significant change in this parameter. Changes in leptin levels remained insignificant in all three groups, whereas ghrelin showed a different profile in each of the three groups, i.e. a continuous rise towards the end of the study period (P<0.001) in the AA group, a less significant effect for the fasting group, and no effect at all in the iso-caloric control group. There was no significant correlation between the concentrations or the area under curve of the hormones measured in any of the groups. The endocrine data provided in this study indicate that a single bolus of essential AA in fasted individuals is associated with both anabolic and catabolic hormonal responses.

 

Well ironically the net effects if you had high prolactin would be an increase in dht but only because both total t and dht were lowered in the first place even though there was a distorted ratio in favor of dht. In other words, the overall level of total test being boosted by prolactin inhibitors results in a rise in DHT as well - it's only in cases where prolactin is nearly obliterated that dht becomes deficient.

 

HOWEVER...my feeling tells me, and based on the lack of specificity in the studies, that these low prolactin individuals might actually be getting estrogen rises or dominance which is causing the dht inhibition ---- because some people who obliterate prolactin are fine and normal and actually have elevated test and dht with an out of control libido...so it's more than likely that it's not taking into account estrogen...even though prolactin has it's own effect on 5-alpha reductase.

Therefore, low prolactin itself can actually cause estrogen dominance...but if you lower both estro and prolactin then you will get tons more dht...because shbg would be obliterated leaving all of your t as free testosterone to convert into dht...of course this is under the assumption that the estrogen level is being lowered by an aromatase inhibitor and not by natural means...

 

That being said, some aromatase inhibitors were also later found to inhibit 5-alpha -reductase as well..which may be responsible for more of the sides than people "crushing their e2 levels".

 

Low dht in my experience is a lot worse than low e2...and personally...i don't get any negative side effects from even undetectable levels of estro...unless my prolactin is elevated or dht is low....interesting right?


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#55 noot_in_the_sky

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 04:02 AM

Which aromatase inhibitors inhibit 5AR?



#56 Area-1255

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 07:08 PM

Which aromatase inhibitors inhibit 5AR?

ATD which is now banned, but was present in the supplement "Inhibit-E".

Some of the other over the counter anti-estrogens such as DIM, which really isn't an aromatase inhibitor...

And then the white button mushroom extracts, which inhibit aromatase but also they inhibit DHT.

Also  arimistane was theorized to have this property as well.

Zinc is also a dual aromatase and 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor...and can be partially responsible for it's side-effects at higher doses.

 

http://www.hairlosst...alpha-reductase

http://www.elitefitn...ead-203062.html

https://materiamedic...tase-inhibitor/

http://www.hairlossh...threadid=111611

http://peaktestoster...Inhibitors.aspx

http://www.newhopefo...-treatment.html


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#57 Area-1255

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 03:09 PM

Reishi mushrooms are pure anti-dht compounds...and likewise, high amounts of reishi make me feel like i am going insane. DHT is the hormone that helps you keep your mind in calm motion..even though it can be stimulating....dht is what every man should want in high amounts.


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#58 Area-1255

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 03:20 AM

Also soy is another anti-dht compound one should generally avoid like the plague...especially artificial varieties and hydrogenated oils which are in almost everything today.


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#59 Area-1255

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 10:27 PM

So I'm not so sure I am fancying the sorghum oil concept...I mean even if it produces increases in dht, the question is...why?

For example, we know that when one increases prolactin..dht also goes up.


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#60 Area-1255

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 05:16 PM

Also if related , and saffron inhibits DHT - but yet it also has effects on dopamine uptake...I wonder if this is inter related..


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