280 replies to this topic

[Area-1255]

 

I wonder what that "Validating" logo is about on SoP's profile. Updated source link on second page of Article.

i think it mean he didnt activate yet or some shit???

 

No, I think it might** mean the admin de-activated his account.

[Area-1255]

Also it looks like a couple of the comments from page 4 were deleted..probably the first-timers who posted three dots and other garbage introductions.

[Area-1255]

Looks like TTLR stopped selling their DHT compound.

[Area-1255]

You know, the one thing that's interesting is that everyone interested in fitness should be taking creatine, but yet, alot aren't...

It's also an effective MYO inhibitor at par with it's other natural buddies. It has effects on solidity and water balance ; very beneficial.

[TanedOut]

Really interesting thread, and also great article on 'DHT and the brain'!

I'm in a similar boat to those who are suffering from finasteride and propecia side effects, however the AR5 inhibitor I took is accutane (isotretinoin). After a dose of only 10mg for 30 days I am still suffering the side effects almost 5 years later, with ED, low libido, loss of sensation and mental sides – brain fog.

After trying various things with limited success I've recently had some improvement to my brain fog from pine pollen powder which I've been taking for the pro-hormone effect from the androsterone in it, however despite some conflicting information I've read, it may also have aromatase inhibitor effects.

I've also had limited improvements from tribulus taken to increase testosterone, but this tends to result in very heavy brain fog for a couple of days after taking it, followed by an improvement in libido and sensitivity which has lasted for up to a few days after. Presumably the heavy brain fog is due to the T aromatasing and sending E through the roof. Despite accutane being an AR5 inhibitor, oddly enough however my DHT levels from my bloods are actually high??..

- FSH = 2.1 iu/L (1.0 - 9.0)
- LH = 2.6 iu/L (1.0 - 9.0)
- Prolactin = 147mu/L ( < 550)
- Testosterone = 13.1 nmol/L (8.0 - 30.0)
- SHBG = 36 nmol/L (13.0 - 71.0)
- Cortisol = 563 nmol/L (150-600)
- DHT = 4.1 nmol/L (0.9 - 2.90)

I'm wondering now if rather than focusing on things to increase T/DHT I should look to increase my low FSH and LH, and lower cortisol?

Great to hear that Tubzy has had some improvements from following your protocol 1255! Can you advise what the protocol consists of?

Edited by TanedOut, 09 May 2015 - 11:00 PM.

[Area-1255]

I would definitely get that  Cortisol level down! Try Erase Pro by PES! Also the typical DHT boosting cocktail is creatine, boron, sorghum and you can also use tribulus terrestris; protoDioscin...and / or CISTANCHE extract.

 

eally interesting thread, and also great article on 'DHT and the brain'!

 

I'm in a similar boat to those who are suffering from finasteride and propecia side effects, however the AR5 inhibitor I took is accutane (isotretinoin). After a dose of only 10mg for 30 days I am still suffering the side effects almost 5 years later, with ED, low libido, loss of sensation and mental sides – brain fog.

After trying various things with limited success I've recently had some improvement to my brain fog from pine pollen powder which I've been taking for the pro-hormone effect from the androsterone in it, however despite some conflicting information I've read, it may also have aromatase inhibitor effects.

I've also had limited improvements from tribulus taken to increase testosterone, but this tends to result in very heavy brain fog for a couple of days after taking it, followed by an improvement in libido and sensitivity which has lasted for up to a few days after. Presumably the heavy brain fog is due to the T aromatasing and sending E through the roof. Despite accutane being an AR5 inhibitor, oddly enough however my DHT levels from my bloods are actually high??..

- FSH = 2.1 iu/L (1.0 - 9.0)
- LH = 2.6 iu/L (1.0 - 9.0)
- Prolactin = 147mu/L ( < 550)
- Testosterone = 13.1 nmol/L (8.0 - 30.0)
- SHBG = 36 nmol/L (13.0 - 71.0)
- Cortisol = 563 nmol/L (150-600)
- DHT = 4.1 nmol/L (0.9 - 2.90)

I'm wondering now if rather than focusing on things to increase T/DHT I should look to increase my low FSH and LH, and lower cortisol?

Great to hear that Tubzy has had some improvements from following your protocol 1255! Can you advise what the protocol consists of?

 

 

 

[Yunasa]

i wouldn't even mention the tlr group. im disgusted with them rn.

[Area-1255]

i wouldn't even mention the tlr group. im disgusted with them rn.

Why's that?

[SerP3nT]

oooh i just loooove this thread!! mast prop all day e'ry day!

[Area-1255]

oooh i just loooove this thread!! mast prop all day e'ry day!

Agreed.

[Tubzy]

I would definitely get that Cortisol level down! Try Erase Pro by PES! Also the typical DHT boosting cocktail is creatine, boron, sorghum and you can also use tribulus terrestris; protoDioscin...and / or CISTANCHE extract.

eally interesting thread, and also great article on 'DHT and the brain'!


I'm in a similar boat to those who are suffering from finasteride and propecia side effects, however the AR5 inhibitor I took is accutane (isotretinoin). After a dose of only 10mg for 30 days I am still suffering the side effects almost 5 years later, with ED, low libido, loss of sensation and mental sides – brain fog.

After trying various things with limited success I've recently had some improvement to my brain fog from pine pollen powder which I've been taking for the pro-hormone effect from the androsterone in it, however despite some conflicting information I've read, it may also have aromatase inhibitor effects.

I've also had limited improvements from tribulus taken to increase testosterone, but this tends to result in very heavy brain fog for a couple of days after taking it, followed by an improvement in libido and sensitivity which has lasted for up to a few days after. Presumably the heavy brain fog is due to the T aromatasing and sending E through the roof. Despite accutane being an AR5 inhibitor, oddly enough however my DHT levels from my bloods are actually high??..

- FSH = 2.1 iu/L (1.0 - 9.0)
- LH = 2.6 iu/L (1.0 - 9.0)
- Prolactin = 147mu/L ( < 550)
- Testosterone = 13.1 nmol/L (8.0 - 30.0)
- SHBG = 36 nmol/L (13.0 - 71.0)
- Cortisol = 563 nmol/L (150-600)
- DHT = 4.1 nmol/L (0.9 - 2.90)

I'm wondering now if rather than focusing on things to increase T/DHT I should look to increase my low FSH and LH, and lower cortisol?

Great to hear that Tubzy has had some improvements from following your protocol 1255! Can you advise what the protocol consists of?

This. My cortisol was high also especially at night. I couldn't sleep. PS (phosphidtylserine) corrected that. 800Mg dose was the amount mainly used in the cortisol studies. Look up endoamp that's what I use plus it has alpha gpc. PS can also increase test levels and LH due to the cortisol vs testosterone ratio. It also can boost 5ar which the study is referenced in this thread.

Oh and I also take triazole and powerful for estrogen and prolactin balance, I'm doing this in comboination what Area 1255 said above.

Edited by Tubzy, 11 May 2015 - 04:27 PM.

[TanedOut]

 

I would definitely get that Cortisol level down! Try Erase Pro by PES! Also the typical DHT boosting cocktail is creatine, boron, sorghum and you can also use tribulus terrestris; protoDioscin...and / or CISTANCHE extract.

eally interesting thread, and also great article on 'DHT and the brain'!


I'm in a similar boat to those who are suffering from finasteride and propecia side effects, however the AR5 inhibitor I took is accutane (isotretinoin). After a dose of only 10mg for 30 days I am still suffering the side effects almost 5 years later, with ED, low libido, loss of sensation and mental sides – brain fog.

After trying various things with limited success I've recently had some improvement to my brain fog from pine pollen powder which I've been taking for the pro-hormone effect from the androsterone in it, however despite some conflicting information I've read, it may also have aromatase inhibitor effects.

I've also had limited improvements from tribulus taken to increase testosterone, but this tends to result in very heavy brain fog for a couple of days after taking it, followed by an improvement in libido and sensitivity which has lasted for up to a few days after. Presumably the heavy brain fog is due to the T aromatasing and sending E through the roof. Despite accutane being an AR5 inhibitor, oddly enough however my DHT levels from my bloods are actually high??..

- FSH = 2.1 iu/L (1.0 - 9.0)
- LH = 2.6 iu/L (1.0 - 9.0)
- Prolactin = 147mu/L ( < 550)
- Testosterone = 13.1 nmol/L (8.0 - 30.0)
- SHBG = 36 nmol/L (13.0 - 71.0)
- Cortisol = 563 nmol/L (150-600)
- DHT = 4.1 nmol/L (0.9 - 2.90)

I'm wondering now if rather than focusing on things to increase T/DHT I should look to increase my low FSH and LH, and lower cortisol?

Great to hear that Tubzy has had some improvements from following your protocol 1255! Can you advise what the protocol consists of?
 

This. My cortisol was high also especially at night. I couldn't sleep. PS (phosphidtylserine) corrected that. 800Mg dose was the amount mainly used in the cortisol studies. Look up endoamp that's what I use plus it has alpha gpc. PS can also increase test levels and LH due to the cortisol vs testosterone ratio. It also can boost 5ar which the study is referenced in this thread.

Oh and I also take triazole and powerful for estrogen and prolactin balance, I'm doing this in comboination what Area 1255 said above.

 

 

Thanks 1255, I'm already eating loads of sorghum and have boron on order, but I'm going to get some cistanche too I think. Also eating pine pollen which contains the androgen androsterone which is the active ingredient in some effective DHT prohormone products such as Androhard. It also contains resveratrol but probably not enough to raise LH much, however I have found pine pollen more effective than anything so far for reducing brain fog.

Tubzy, interesting that endoamp includes alpha gpc. One of only a couple of things that I have found results in a definite improvement to post-accutane sexual sides is choline (I'm using Now brand choline & inosital) which I'm assuming is CDP choline (not GPC). This apparently increases dopamine receptor densities. The only negative is for me it definitely either increases cortisol or blood pressure so I don't take it daily, but possibly combining this with PS might help there (have PS on order). The other thing that helps is marijuana which just increases dopamine levels I believe, but the problem is obviously the stoned effect! Those 2 things noticeably increase sensation and improve orgasm for me.
                             
Interested to give tianeptine a go too to be honest, but will hold off for the time being.

 

Edited by TanedOut, 11 May 2015 - 09:55 PM.

[Tubzy]

 

 

I would definitely get that Cortisol level down! Try Erase Pro by PES! Also the typical DHT boosting cocktail is creatine, boron, sorghum and you can also use tribulus terrestris; protoDioscin...and / or CISTANCHE extract.

eally interesting thread, and also great article on 'DHT and the brain'!


I'm in a similar boat to those who are suffering from finasteride and propecia side effects, however the AR5 inhibitor I took is accutane (isotretinoin). After a dose of only 10mg for 30 days I am still suffering the side effects almost 5 years later, with ED, low libido, loss of sensation and mental sides – brain fog.

After trying various things with limited success I've recently had some improvement to my brain fog from pine pollen powder which I've been taking for the pro-hormone effect from the androsterone in it, however despite some conflicting information I've read, it may also have aromatase inhibitor effects.

I've also had limited improvements from tribulus taken to increase testosterone, but this tends to result in very heavy brain fog for a couple of days after taking it, followed by an improvement in libido and sensitivity which has lasted for up to a few days after. Presumably the heavy brain fog is due to the T aromatasing and sending E through the roof. Despite accutane being an AR5 inhibitor, oddly enough however my DHT levels from my bloods are actually high??..

- FSH = 2.1 iu/L (1.0 - 9.0)
- LH = 2.6 iu/L (1.0 - 9.0)
- Prolactin = 147mu/L ( < 550)
- Testosterone = 13.1 nmol/L (8.0 - 30.0)
- SHBG = 36 nmol/L (13.0 - 71.0)
- Cortisol = 563 nmol/L (150-600)
- DHT = 4.1 nmol/L (0.9 - 2.90)

I'm wondering now if rather than focusing on things to increase T/DHT I should look to increase my low FSH and LH, and lower cortisol?

Great to hear that Tubzy has had some improvements from following your protocol 1255! Can you advise what the protocol consists of?
 

This. My cortisol was high also especially at night. I couldn't sleep. PS (phosphidtylserine) corrected that. 800Mg dose was the amount mainly used in the cortisol studies. Look up endoamp that's what I use plus it has alpha gpc. PS can also increase test levels and LH due to the cortisol vs testosterone ratio. It also can boost 5ar which the study is referenced in this thread.

Oh and I also take triazole and powerful for estrogen and prolactin balance, I'm doing this in comboination what Area 1255 said above.

 

 

Thanks 1255, I'm already eating loads of sorghum and have boron on order, but I'm going to get some cistanche too I think. Also eating pine pollen which contains the androgen androsterone which is the active ingredient in some effective DHT prohormone products such as Androhard. It also contains resveratrol but probably not enough to raise LH much, however I have found pine pollen more effective than anything so far for reducing brain fog.

Tubzy, interesting that endoamp includes alpha gpc. One of only a couple of things that I have found results in a definite improvement to post-accutane sexual sides is choline (I'm using Now brand choline & inosital) which I'm assuming is CDP choline (not GPC). This apparently increases dopamine receptor densities. The only negative is for me it definitely either increases cortisol or blood pressure so I don't take it daily, but possibly combining this with PS might help there (have PS on order). The other thing that helps is marijuana which just increases dopamine levels I believe, but the problem is obviously the stoned effect! Those 2 things noticeably increase sensation and improve orgasm for me.
                             
Interested to give tianeptine a go too to be honest, but will hold off for the time being.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah endoamp is great.  I like the alpha GPC due to the increase in GH, which helps.  I also believe alpha gpc boosts GABA which always good since propecia fucked up our GABA system.

 

I forgot to mention my base to my supplement stack.  It's Cognitex by LEF with Pregnenolone.  This in combo with PS get rid of my mental sides (like 90%).  Preg helps backfill allopregnanolone which propecia absolutely destroys via 5AR.  I feel so much better on preg..Cognitex contains 50mg of preg per serving.  If you have depression or anxiety from finasteride try it out.  i take it first thing in the morning, preg can increase cortisol or other hormones so taking it in the morning helps follow the natural rhythm.

 

My stack consists of:

 

Cognitex w/ pregnenolone

Endoamp (cortisol, test increase; boost 5AR)

Tribulus (stnd to 95%) (Boost dhea/dht)

Triazole (for estrogen, test booster)

Creatine (boost DHT)

Multi vitamin

Fish oil

Sorgum (switched to the syrup instead of flour; it's way more convenient)

Liquid boron (boost free test; DHT)

Powerfull (before bed for dopamine/prolactin) w/ 100mg of vitamin b6 p5p form

Vitamin D3 5,000IU

 

Pretty much Area 1255's protocol, but with some added things.  How do you like pine pollen?  I wanted to try it out but not sure how it worked.  Which brand do you use and how much?

 

http://area1255.blog...-naturally.html

 

What I think the main issue comes down to is:

 

-Dopamine

-GABA (allopreg)

-DHT/5AR

-High estrogen/prolactin

-Cortisol (possibly too, I never had a prob with stimulants until I came OFF propecia..now I feel way better not 100% yet though)

Edited by Tubzy, 12 May 2015 - 03:26 AM.

[Tubzy]

I also wonder if injecting 100mg or 200mg of mast prop once a week would help push your body to the right androgen balance without causing suppression. Or possibly a low dose EOD like 50mg

Edited by Tubzy, 12 May 2015 - 07:27 PM.

[TanedOut]

 

Yeah endoamp is great.  I like the alpha GPC due to the increase in GH, which helps.  I also believe alpha gpc boosts GABA which always good since propecia fucked up our GABA system.

 

I forgot to mention my base to my supplement stack.  It's Cognitex by LEF with Pregnenolone.  This in combo with PS get rid of my mental sides (like 90%).  Preg helps backfill allopregnanolone which propecia absolutely destroys via 5AR.  I feel so much better on preg..Cognitex contains 50mg of preg per serving.  If you have depression or anxiety from finasteride try it out.  i take it first thing in the morning, preg can increase cortisol or other hormones so taking it in the morning helps follow the natural rhythm.

 

My stack consists of:

 

Cognitex w/ pregnenolone

Endoamp (cortisol, test increase; boost 5AR)

Tribulus (stnd to 95%) (Boost dhea/dht)

Triazole (for estrogen, test booster)

Creatine (boost DHT)

Multi vitamin

Fish oil

Sorgum (switched to the syrup instead of flour; it's way more convenient)

Liquid boron (boost free test; DHT)

Powerfull (before bed for dopamine/prolactin) w/ 100mg of vitamin b6 p5p form

Vitamin D3 5,000IU

 

Pretty much Area 1255's protocol, but with some added things.  How do you like pine pollen?  I wanted to try it out but not sure how it worked.  Which brand do you use and how much?

 

http://area1255.blog...-naturally.html

 

What I think the main issue comes down to is:

 

-Dopamine

-GABA (allopreg)

-DHT/5AR

-High estrogen/prolactin

-Cortisol (possibly too, I never had a prob with stimulants until I came OFF propecia..now I feel way better not 100% yet though)

 

 

Pine pollen is definitely yielding some good results for me so far. I'm currently just using stuff bought from ebay which is apparently wild sourced. Comes from China. I'm just taking 3 heaped teaspoonfuls so far, but I'll increase this once my next batch arrives. I've not noticed any negative sides.

Besides the fact that it contains bio-available androstenedione, testosterone, DHEA and androsterone it is also incredibly nutrient rich. It's supposed to be even more effective in tincture form, but I've yet to try this.

 

[Tubzy]

 

 

Yeah endoamp is great.  I like the alpha GPC due to the increase in GH, which helps.  I also believe alpha gpc boosts GABA which always good since propecia fucked up our GABA system.

 

I forgot to mention my base to my supplement stack.  It's Cognitex by LEF with Pregnenolone.  This in combo with PS get rid of my mental sides (like 90%).  Preg helps backfill allopregnanolone which propecia absolutely destroys via 5AR.  I feel so much better on preg..Cognitex contains 50mg of preg per serving.  If you have depression or anxiety from finasteride try it out.  i take it first thing in the morning, preg can increase cortisol or other hormones so taking it in the morning helps follow the natural rhythm.

 

My stack consists of:

 

Cognitex w/ pregnenolone

Endoamp (cortisol, test increase; boost 5AR)

Tribulus (stnd to 95%) (Boost dhea/dht)

Triazole (for estrogen, test booster)

Creatine (boost DHT)

Multi vitamin

Fish oil

Sorgum (switched to the syrup instead of flour; it's way more convenient)

Liquid boron (boost free test; DHT)

Powerfull (before bed for dopamine/prolactin) w/ 100mg of vitamin b6 p5p form

Vitamin D3 5,000IU

 

Pretty much Area 1255's protocol, but with some added things.  How do you like pine pollen?  I wanted to try it out but not sure how it worked.  Which brand do you use and how much?

 

http://area1255.blog...-naturally.html

 

What I think the main issue comes down to is:

 

-Dopamine

-GABA (allopreg)

-DHT/5AR

-High estrogen/prolactin

-Cortisol (possibly too, I never had a prob with stimulants until I came OFF propecia..now I feel way better not 100% yet though)

 

 

Pine pollen is definitely yielding some good results for me so far. I'm currently just using stuff bought from ebay which is apparently wild sourced. Comes from China. I'm just taking 3 heaped teaspoonfuls so far, but I'll increase this once my next batch arrives. I've not noticed any negative sides.

Besides the fact that it contains bio-available androstenedione, testosterone, DHEA and androsterone it is also incredibly nutrient rich. It's supposed to be even more effective in tincture form, but I've yet to try this.

 

 

I ordered this one.  http://www.amazon.co...0/dp/B004I3WDGY

 

Heard good things about the tincture.  I'll try it out.

[noot_in_the_sky]

 

Many thanks to TUBZY for this one.

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3426586

 

Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1987 Dec 16;149(2):482-7.

Specific stimulation of steroid 5 alpha-reductase solubilized from rat liver microsomes by endogenous phosphatidylserine.

Ichihara K1, Tanaka C.

Author information

 

Abstract

Dilauroylphosphatidylcholine caused a marked increase in progesterone 5 alpha-reductase activity solubilized from rat liver microsomes, whereas naturally occurring phosphatidylcholines from biological sources as well as dioleoylphosphatidylcholine had not effect on the activity. Therefore, the stimulatory effect of phospholipids normally found in rat liver microsomes was examined. The lipid extracts were prepared from the fraction which was freed from 5 alpha-reductase activity by DEAE-cellulose chromatography, and found to exhibit a strong stimulatory effect. The lipid extracts were then separated into phosphatidylserine, phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylethanolamine by chromatography on silicic acid column and preparative thin-layer plate. Among these endogenous phospholipids, only phosphatidylserine stimulated the 5 alpha-reductase, suggesting that the lipid requirement is specific for phosphatidylserine in steroid 5 alpha-reductase from liver microsomes.

PMID:   3426586   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

 

It is an excellent finding. Do you know what dose they use?

 

After reading this study it remind me of a post I had previously had seen here in longecity.  Where Cog claim to get dht effects from phospatidylserine and piracetam.

 

Here is the link:

 

http://www.longecity...drotestoterone/

 

Also Tubzy how much sorghum do you use?

Edited by noot_in_the_sky, 13 May 2015 - 06:49 PM.

[noot_in_the_sky]

It seems Eucommia ulmoides, has a very interesting property of increasing the effect of androgens at the receptor.

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1797194/

 

 

 

Novel phytoandrogens and lipidic augmenters from Eucommia ulmoides

Victor YC Ong^1,2 and Benny KH Tan¹

Author information ► Article notes ► Copyright and License information ►

 

Go to:

Abstract

Background

Plants containing compounds such as the isoflavonoids, with female hormone-like effects that bind to human estrogen receptors, are known. But none has been previously shown to have corresponding male hormone-like effects that interact with the human androgen receptor. Here, we report that the tree bark (cortex) of the Gutta-Percha tree Eucommia ulmoides possesses bimodal phytoandrogenic and hormone potentiating effects by lipidic components.

Methods

The extracts of E. ulmoides were tested using in-vitro reporter gene bioassays and in-vivo animal studies. Key compounds responsible for the steroidogenic effects were isolated and identified using solid phase extraction (SPE), high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC), thin layer chromatography (TLC), gas chromatography-mass spectroscopy (GC-MS), electron spray ionisation-mass spectroscopy (ESI-MS) and nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR).

Results

The following bioactivities of E. ulmoides were found: (1) a phenomenal tripartite synergism exists between the sex steroid receptors (androgen and estrogen receptors), their cognate steroidal ligands and lipidic augmenters isolated from E. ulmoides, (2) phytoandrogenic activity of E. ulmoides was mediated by plant triterpenoids binding cognately to the androgen receptor (AR) ligand binding domain.

Conclusion

In addition to well-known phytoestrogens, the existence of phytoandrogens is reported in this study. Furthermore, a form of tripartite synergism between sex steroid receptors, sex hormones and plant-derived lipids is described for the first time. This could have contrasting clinical applications for hypogonadal- and hyperlipidaemic-related disorders.

 

Edited by noot_in_the_sky, 13 May 2015 - 07:05 PM.

[88LS]

How much boron we talking here per day?

[Tubzy]

How much boron we talking here per day?

 

I take this every morning.  http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/B001ECXJ5Q

 

One serving.  I believe it 13mg.

[Tubzy]

 

 

Many thanks to TUBZY for this one.

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3426586

 

Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1987 Dec 16;149(2):482-7.

Specific stimulation of steroid 5 alpha-reductase solubilized from rat liver microsomes by endogenous phosphatidylserine.

Ichihara K1, Tanaka C.

Author information

 

Abstract

Dilauroylphosphatidylcholine caused a marked increase in progesterone 5 alpha-reductase activity solubilized from rat liver microsomes, whereas naturally occurring phosphatidylcholines from biological sources as well as dioleoylphosphatidylcholine had not effect on the activity. Therefore, the stimulatory effect of phospholipids normally found in rat liver microsomes was examined. The lipid extracts were prepared from the fraction which was freed from 5 alpha-reductase activity by DEAE-cellulose chromatography, and found to exhibit a strong stimulatory effect. The lipid extracts were then separated into phosphatidylserine, phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylethanolamine by chromatography on silicic acid column and preparative thin-layer plate. Among these endogenous phospholipids, only phosphatidylserine stimulated the 5 alpha-reductase, suggesting that the lipid requirement is specific for phosphatidylserine in steroid 5 alpha-reductase from liver microsomes.

PMID:   3426586   [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

 

It is an excellent finding. Do you know what dose they use?

 

After reading this study it remind me of a post I had previously had seen here in longecity.  Where Cog claim to get dht effects from phospatidylserine and piracetam.

 

Here is the link:

 

http://www.longecity...drotestoterone/

 

Also Tubzy how much sorghum do you use?

 

 

I couldn't find anything specifically on dose.  But I use 800mg which what the study was done on the cortisol exercise study.

 

I take endoamp http://www.adrenalin...ts-endoamp.html

 

It has both PS and alpha GPC.  I take it an hour preworkout.  If I don't lift that day I take it with dinner with FISH OIL.  Take it it with 1-1.5 grams of fish oil.  You will notice a way bigger difference.  Feel calm, relaxed and focused..zero stress.

 

For the sorghum, I take the white sorghum syrup everyday, like one or two spoonful.  I take the sorghum flower once or twice a week when I bake oatmeal protein cookies, but it can be a hassle.  The syrup is way more convenient.

http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/B0064O77ZC

 

It seems Eucommia ulmoides, has a very interesting property of increasing the effect of androgens at the receptor.

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1797194/

 

 

 

Novel phytoandrogens and lipidic augmenters from Eucommia ulmoides

Victor YC Ong^1,2 and Benny KH Tan¹

Author information ► Article notes ► Copyright and License information ►

 

Go to:

Abstract

Background

Plants containing compounds such as the isoflavonoids, with female hormone-like effects that bind to human estrogen receptors, are known. But none has been previously shown to have corresponding male hormone-like effects that interact with the human androgen receptor. Here, we report that the tree bark (cortex) of the Gutta-Percha tree Eucommia ulmoides possesses bimodal phytoandrogenic and hormone potentiating effects by lipidic components.

Methods

The extracts of E. ulmoides were tested using in-vitro reporter gene bioassays and in-vivo animal studies. Key compounds responsible for the steroidogenic effects were isolated and identified using solid phase extraction (SPE), high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC), thin layer chromatography (TLC), gas chromatography-mass spectroscopy (GC-MS), electron spray ionisation-mass spectroscopy (ESI-MS) and nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR).

Results

The following bioactivities of E. ulmoides were found: (1) a phenomenal tripartite synergism exists between the sex steroid receptors (androgen and estrogen receptors), their cognate steroidal ligands and lipidic augmenters isolated from E. ulmoides, (2) phytoandrogenic activity of E. ulmoides was mediated by plant triterpenoids binding cognately to the androgen receptor (AR) ligand binding domain.

Conclusion

In addition to well-known phytoestrogens, the existence of phytoandrogens is reported in this study. Furthermore, a form of tripartite synergism between sex steroid receptors, sex hormones and plant-derived lipids is described for the first time. This could have contrasting clinical applications for hypogonadal- and hyperlipidaemic-related disorders.

 

 

 

Funny you mentioned this.  I started taking like last week.  I didn't mention it b/c still to early.  I got mine from here http://www.amazon.co...0/dp/B003GEFL9M

 

I came across it from this thread http://www.propeciah...opic.php?t=5879

 

You should look into PowerfuLL

Edited by Tubzy, 14 May 2015 - 03:36 AM.

[noot_in_the_sky]

It seems like your google-fu skill are as good as mine, or perhaps the Internet has become a smaller place.  Because I also came across that thread, it's where I originally learn of Protodioscin, Safed Musli, & Eucommia.  I'm also glad that you are using Eucommia, since I have also began my trial of Caprylic Acid -as mention on the study.  This way we can compare results.

 

BTW, if anyone is going to purchase from Amazon, then remember to use Amazon Smile and choose SENS Foundation or any other charity you like.

 

I took a look at Powerfull, & notice that it uses Safed Musli & Velvet Bean Extract.  However, according to a study the whole Velvet Bean plant seems to be a much better. (Fig. 1)

 

I'm also taking .5mg of Rasagiline 5 - 6 d/wk, so using Velvet Bean Extract seems a little unnecessary.

 

You also may want to look at Ginkgo Bilbao for cortisol & prolactin lowering effects. (Fig. 2 & 3)

 

Something of interest I saw in an other forum about SHBG.

     http://www.professio...ceptors-2.html 

 

 

“There are several observations suggesting that SHBG mediates the signal leading to the activation of a second messenger system. Firstly, antiestrogens do not block the response, which would be
the case if it was mediated through intracellular estrogen receptor. Secondly, diethylstilbestrol (DES), a potent estrogen that does not bind to SHBG, fails to mimic the effects of estradiol.
Thirdly, DHT, which has a significantly higher affinity for SHBG than estradiol, blocks the response probably by displacing the bound estradiol from SHBG. Thus, BPH tissue requires
estradiol for the activation of the secondary messenger system, as opposed to LNCaP cells, which respond to both estrogens and androgens (Nakhla et al., 1990, 1994).
More detailed study of the SHBG receptor-mediated signaling system in prostate tissue suggested that estradiol could, through SHBG, activate AR via a ligand-independent mechanism.
DHT stimulates the secretion of prostate specific antigen (PSA) by prostate tissue through classical transcriptional activation mediated by AR (Riegman et al., 1991; Lee et al., 1995;
Henttu et al., 1992). Similar stimulation is achieved by estradiol in the presence of SHBG. As with DHT alone, the estradiol-SHBG mediated stimulation is inhibited by antiandrogens, but
not by antiestrogens, which suggests that estrogen receptor (ER) does not mediate this response (Nakhla et al., 1997). SHBG can also mediate the regulation of cell growth by estrogens and
androgens. DHT and estradiol stimulate, in the presence of SHBG, the growth of prostate carcinoma cells, and this increased cell proliferation is associated with elevated cAMP levels inside the cell
(Nakhla and Rosner, 1996). By contrast, estrogen induced growth of MCF-7 breast cancer cells is inhibited by SHBG (Fortunati et al., 1996). The reduction in growth rate is accompanied by intracellular
cAMP accumulation, which is absolutely dependent on both estradiol and SHBG. Therefore, it seems unlikely that SHBG simply sequesters estradiol and restricts its availability to cells, but
may actually transmit the growth inhibitory signal to the cell nucleus.”       

 

 

 

Figure 1

Link: http://suppversity.b...a-counters.html

 

 

 

• Mucuna pruriens protects male fertility against estrogenic assaults & restores testosterone levels  -- I an interesting rodent experiment researchers from the Division of Endocrinology at the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research-Central Drug Research Institute were able to show that oral supplementation with 300 mg/kg mucuna pruriens or 20 mg/kg BW of l-dopa (Singh. 2013). With the latter being the equivalent of the l-dopa content of Indian mucuna pruriens it is particularly interesting to see that only mucuna, but not l-dopa went far beyond restoring the testosterone levels after 2 weeks on an endocrine disrupting dose of 3mg/kg ethinyl estradiol - it almost tripled them!
  Figure 1: Testosterone, FSH and LH levels 2 weeks, 4 weeks and 6 weeks into recovery; data expressed relative to non estradiol treated healthy control (Singh. 2013) According to the scientists the beneficial effects on sperm quality, LH, FSH and testosterone were brought about or at least accompanied by reductions in ROS level, the restoration of mitochondrial membrane potential, a normalization of apoptotic processes and overall increase in the number of germ cells. 
  
  If we assume the effects translate to human beings, a daily dose of 3-4g of mucuna (while this is the HED of the dose used in the study, but probably you'd need lower doses - after all you don't take estrogen, do you?) could protect you against the constant assault of environmental estrogens and come particularly handy, when you "messed up" your endocrine system with other compounds ;-)

 

 

Figure 2

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Search=18001735

 

 

Ginkgo biloba extract enhances male copulatory behavior and reduces serum prolactin levels in rats.

Yeh KY1, Pu HF, Kaphle K, Lin SF, Wu LS, Lin JH, Tsai YF.

Author information

 

Abstract

The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of Ginkgo biloba extract (EGb 761) on male copulatory behavior in rats. EGb 761 (1 mg/ml) induced significant production of testosterone (T) in rat Leydig cells in vitro. Its effects on sexual behavior were then tested in Long-Evans male rats after 7, 14, 21, or 28 days of oral gavage of vehicle (distilled water) or EGb 761 at doses of 10, 50, or 100 mg/kg. Administration of 50 mg/kg of EGb 761 for 28 days and of 100 mg/kg for 14 or 21 days significantly increased intromission frequency compared to controls on the same day. An increase in ejaculation frequency was seen after treatment with 50 mg/kg of EGb 761 for 14, 21, or 28 days when compared to either the control group on the same day or the same group on day 0. A reduction in ejaculation latency was only seen after administration of 50 mg/kg of EGb 761 for 14 days compared to the vehicle-treated group. After treatment for 28 days, no significant difference was seen in mount latency, intromission latency, serum T levels, reproductive organ weight, sperm number, or levels of the metabolite of dopamine, 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid in the brain with any dose of EGb 761, but significantly reduced serum prolactin levels and increased dopamine levels in the medial preoptic area and arcuate nucleus were seen at the dose of 50 mg/kg. These findings show that EGb 761 (especially at the dose of 50 mg/kg) enhances the copulatory behavior of male rats and suggest that the dopaminergic system, which regulates prolactin secretion, may be involved in the facilitatory effect of EGb 761.

 

 

Figure 3

   http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12369732

 

J Physiol Pharmacol. 2002 Sep;53(3):337-48.

Reduction of rise in blood pressure and cortisol release during stress by Ginkgo biloba extract (EGb 761) in healthy volunteers.

Jezova D¹, Duncko R, Lassanova M, Kriska M, Moncek F.

Author information

 

Abstract

The standardized extract of Ginkgo biloba (EGb 761) was found not only to improve memory and aging associated cognitive deficits but also to exert beneficial effects on mood. An antistress action of the extract has been suggested but not directly proven. The present study was aimed to evaluate the effects of EGb 761 on salivary cortisol and blood pressure responses during stress in healthy young volunteers (n = 70) in a double blind placebo controlled design. A stress model involving a combination of static exercise (handgrip) and mental stimuli was used. Single treatment with EGb 761 (120 mg) reduced stress-induced rise in blood pressure without affecting the heart rate. Salivary cortisol responses showed differences with respect to the gender and the time of day of the stress exposure, with the activation only in male subjects in the afternoon. This activation was absent if they were treated with EGb 761. The performance in a short memory test with higher scores achieved by women remained unaffected by EGb 761 treatment. Thus, this study provides evidence that EGb 761 has an inhibitory action on blood pressure and it may influence cortisol release in response to some stress stimuli.

 

[SerP3nT]

http://www.ruthlesss.../182-3-1-9.html

guys, its week 3 on this sup called phytoserms above..its like 20x better than all the other sups mentioned in this thread. load size is bigger and strength in gym is WAY the fuck up. i swear it feels like AAS!! highly rec, didn't feel much the first week but stomach ache. after that it stuff is pumpin in.

Edited by SerP3nT, 15 May 2015 - 11:45 AM.

[Tubzy]

http://www.ruthlesss.../182-3-1-9.html

guys, its week 3 on this sup called phytoserms above..its like 20x better than all the other sups mentioned in this thread. load size is bigger and strength in gym is WAY the fuck up. i swear it feels like AAS!! highly rec, didn't feel much the first week but stomach ache. after that it stuff is pumpin in.

 

I looked into that, but it contains nettle root which is a 5ar inhibitor.

http://www.ruthlesss.../182-3-1-9.html

guys, its week 3 on this sup called phytoserms above..its like 20x better than all the other sups mentioned in this thread. load size is bigger and strength in gym is WAY the fuck up. i swear it feels like AAS!! highly rec, didn't feel much the first week but stomach ache. after that it stuff is pumpin in.

 

I looked into that, but it contains nettle root which is a 5ar inhibitor.

[Tubzy]

 

It seems like your google-fu skill are as good as mine, or perhaps the Internet has become a smaller place.  Because I also came across that thread, it's where I originally learn of Protodioscin, Safed Musli, & Eucommia.  I'm also glad that you are using Eucommia, since I have also began my trial of Caprylic Acid -as mention on the study.  This way we can compare results.

 

BTW, if anyone is going to purchase from Amazon, then remember to use Amazon Smile and choose SENS Foundation or any other charity you like.

 

I took a look at Powerfull, & notice that it uses Safed Musli & Velvet Bean Extract.  However, according to a study the whole Velvet Bean plant seems to be a much better. (Fig. 1)

 

I'm also taking .5mg of Rasagiline 5 - 6 d/wk, so using Velvet Bean Extract seems a little unnecessary.

 

You also may want to look at Ginkgo Bilbao for cortisol & prolactin lowering effects. (Fig. 2 & 3)

 

Something of interest I saw in an other forum about SHBG.

     http://www.professio...ceptors-2.html 

 

 

“There are several observations suggesting that SHBG mediates the signal leading to the activation of a second messenger system. Firstly, antiestrogens do not block the response, which would be
the case if it was mediated through intracellular estrogen receptor. Secondly, diethylstilbestrol (DES), a potent estrogen that does not bind to SHBG, fails to mimic the effects of estradiol.
Thirdly, DHT, which has a significantly higher affinity for SHBG than estradiol, blocks the response probably by displacing the bound estradiol from SHBG. Thus, BPH tissue requires
estradiol for the activation of the secondary messenger system, as opposed to LNCaP cells, which respond to both estrogens and androgens (Nakhla et al., 1990, 1994).
More detailed study of the SHBG receptor-mediated signaling system in prostate tissue suggested that estradiol could, through SHBG, activate AR via a ligand-independent mechanism.
DHT stimulates the secretion of prostate specific antigen (PSA) by prostate tissue through classical transcriptional activation mediated by AR (Riegman et al., 1991; Lee et al., 1995;
Henttu et al., 1992). Similar stimulation is achieved by estradiol in the presence of SHBG. As with DHT alone, the estradiol-SHBG mediated stimulation is inhibited by antiandrogens, but
not by antiestrogens, which suggests that estrogen receptor (ER) does not mediate this response (Nakhla et al., 1997). SHBG can also mediate the regulation of cell growth by estrogens and
androgens. DHT and estradiol stimulate, in the presence of SHBG, the growth of prostate carcinoma cells, and this increased cell proliferation is associated with elevated cAMP levels inside the cell
(Nakhla and Rosner, 1996). By contrast, estrogen induced growth of MCF-7 breast cancer cells is inhibited by SHBG (Fortunati et al., 1996). The reduction in growth rate is accompanied by intracellular
cAMP accumulation, which is absolutely dependent on both estradiol and SHBG. Therefore, it seems unlikely that SHBG simply sequesters estradiol and restricts its availability to cells, but
may actually transmit the growth inhibitory signal to the cell nucleus.”       

 

 

 

Figure 1

Link: http://suppversity.b...a-counters.html

 

 

 

• Mucuna pruriens protects male fertility against estrogenic assaults & restores testosterone levels  -- I an interesting rodent experiment researchers from the Division of Endocrinology at the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research-Central Drug Research Institute were able to show that oral supplementation with 300 mg/kg mucuna pruriens or 20 mg/kg BW of l-dopa (Singh. 2013). With the latter being the equivalent of the l-dopa content of Indian mucuna pruriens it is particularly interesting to see that only mucuna, but not l-dopa went far beyond restoring the testosterone levels after 2 weeks on an endocrine disrupting dose of 3mg/kg ethinyl estradiol - it almost tripled them!
  Figure 1: Testosterone, FSH and LH levels 2 weeks, 4 weeks and 6 weeks into recovery; data expressed relative to non estradiol treated healthy control (Singh. 2013) According to the scientists the beneficial effects on sperm quality, LH, FSH and testosterone were brought about or at least accompanied by reductions in ROS level, the restoration of mitochondrial membrane potential, a normalization of apoptotic processes and overall increase in the number of germ cells. 
  
  If we assume the effects translate to human beings, a daily dose of 3-4g of mucuna (while this is the HED of the dose used in the study, but probably you'd need lower doses - after all you don't take estrogen, do you?) could protect you against the constant assault of environmental estrogens and come particularly handy, when you "messed up" your endocrine system with other compounds ;-)

 

 

Figure 2

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Search=18001735

 

 

Ginkgo biloba extract enhances male copulatory behavior and reduces serum prolactin levels in rats.

Yeh KY1, Pu HF, Kaphle K, Lin SF, Wu LS, Lin JH, Tsai YF.

Author information

 

Abstract

The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of Ginkgo biloba extract (EGb 761) on male copulatory behavior in rats. EGb 761 (1 mg/ml) induced significant production of testosterone (T) in rat Leydig cells in vitro. Its effects on sexual behavior were then tested in Long-Evans male rats after 7, 14, 21, or 28 days of oral gavage of vehicle (distilled water) or EGb 761 at doses of 10, 50, or 100 mg/kg. Administration of 50 mg/kg of EGb 761 for 28 days and of 100 mg/kg for 14 or 21 days significantly increased intromission frequency compared to controls on the same day. An increase in ejaculation frequency was seen after treatment with 50 mg/kg of EGb 761 for 14, 21, or 28 days when compared to either the control group on the same day or the same group on day 0. A reduction in ejaculation latency was only seen after administration of 50 mg/kg of EGb 761 for 14 days compared to the vehicle-treated group. After treatment for 28 days, no significant difference was seen in mount latency, intromission latency, serum T levels, reproductive organ weight, sperm number, or levels of the metabolite of dopamine, 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid in the brain with any dose of EGb 761, but significantly reduced serum prolactin levels and increased dopamine levels in the medial preoptic area and arcuate nucleus were seen at the dose of 50 mg/kg. These findings show that EGb 761 (especially at the dose of 50 mg/kg) enhances the copulatory behavior of male rats and suggest that the dopaminergic system, which regulates prolactin secretion, may be involved in the facilitatory effect of EGb 761.

 

 

Figure 3

   http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12369732

 

J Physiol Pharmacol. 2002 Sep;53(3):337-48.

Reduction of rise in blood pressure and cortisol release during stress by Ginkgo biloba extract (EGb 761) in healthy volunteers.

Jezova D¹, Duncko R, Lassanova M, Kriska M, Moncek F.

Author information

 

Abstract

The standardized extract of Ginkgo biloba (EGb 761) was found not only to improve memory and aging associated cognitive deficits but also to exert beneficial effects on mood. An antistress action of the extract has been suggested but not directly proven. The present study was aimed to evaluate the effects of EGb 761 on salivary cortisol and blood pressure responses during stress in healthy young volunteers (n = 70) in a double blind placebo controlled design. A stress model involving a combination of static exercise (handgrip) and mental stimuli was used. Single treatment with EGb 761 (120 mg) reduced stress-induced rise in blood pressure without affecting the heart rate. Salivary cortisol responses showed differences with respect to the gender and the time of day of the stress exposure, with the activation only in male subjects in the afternoon. This activation was absent if they were treated with EGb 761. The performance in a short memory test with higher scores achieved by women remained unaffected by EGb 761 treatment. Thus, this study provides evidence that EGb 761 has an inhibitory action on blood pressure and it may influence cortisol release in response to some stress stimuli.

 

 

 

Yup, haha I have spent too much time on this bullshit.  I started pine pollen tincture yesterday too.  Recap of my protocol.

 

Powerfull - Dopamine and prolactin control

Endoamp- Cortisol control and testosterone increase

Res 100 (used to be sustain alpha)- testosterone booster and estrogen modulator (to keep e2 controlled)

Toco 8 (or palm fruit extract)- LH sensitivity

Pine Pollen- neurosteroids and phytoandrogen support

Eucommia bark extract- androgen receptor support

Creatine (green mangnitude)- boost dht

Sorghum- boost 5ar

Cistanche extract (not consistent)- boost 5ar/dht

Tribulus (stnd to 95%)- DHT and testosterone support

Pregnonolone- 50mg micronized time released

 

I think it works best to cycle some of the supplements.  For instace, tribulus I won't take everyday.  Like a few times a week and I respond better to it.  You body doesn't get used to it so you kinda of "shock" the endrocrine system towards the right direction.

Edited by Tubzy, 16 May 2015 - 08:04 PM.

[SerP3nT]

man , excellent studies brothas! great thread area!

[SerP3nT]

def agree to cycle em !

[AlexCanada]

 

 

Propecia use is associated with long-lasting or permanent sexual dysfunction even after cessation. MERCK even changed the side-effect label to include this sometime in 2011 and strengthened it in 2012 after a probe by the FDA. There's currently a few clinical research studies on-going to find out the exact mechanism of action by which Propecia causes this long lasting sexual dysfunction. I think now is a rather bad time to take this medication for an issue as vain as hairloss.

http://www.pfsfounda...hing-affiliate/

http://www.pfsfounda...ge-of-medicine/

Agreed, and thanks for the contribution in this thread!
It causes "sexual dysfunction" because DHT helps maintain normal penile function - so we are reducing that directly.
In addition, it causes central reduction in non-contact erections and libido by indirectly causing estrogen and prolactin dominance in many men.

Right, but this doesn't explain why sexual dysfunction in some men persists long after cessation. Many men suffering from so called "post-Finasteride syndrome" do not respond to hormone treatment therapies, including testosterone, estradiol management, and even DHT. This would suggest to me Propecia has the potential to alter expression at the receptor level. Hopefully the two clinical studies will be able to elucidate the exact mechanism of action Propecia purportedly causes this.

 

 

The same can be applied to Accutane due to it's anti-DHT mechanisms. These are very dangerous medications. 

[noot_in_the_sky]

Here are some fun studies.

 

 

If what the Lostfalco's Extensive Nootropic Experiments thread is anything to go by, then perhaps these researcher over did it on the 808nM light, since he only uses it for about 7min on his head.

http://biomedres.inf...y.357194742.pdf

 

The effects of low level laser therapy (LLLT) on the testis in elevating serum testosterone level in rats.

Jin-Chul Ahn1,2, Young-Hoon Kim3 and Chung-Ku Rhee1,2 1Medical Laser Research Center, Dankook University, Cheonan, Korea 330 714. 2

Department of Otolaryngology-Head & Neck surgery, Dankook University College of Medicine, Cheonan, Korea 330 714. 3

Department of Otolaryngology-Head & Neck surgery, Wallace Memorial Baptist Hospital, Busan, Korea. .

 

Testosterone (T) plays a vital role in the sexual function and many other health-related phenomena. We conducted this study to examine the effects of low level laser therapy (LLLT) on the testis in elevating serum T level in rats. We performed the current experimental study using 30 male Sprague-Dawley rats (Orient Bio, Korea) aged six weeks, weighing 200 g. In rats of two laser groups, a 670-nm diode laser or an 808-nm one were irradiated to the testes at an intensity of 360 J/cm2 /day (200 mW × 30 min) for five days. This was followed by the measurement of the depth of tissue penetration, that of serum T level and histopathological examination. Our results showed that the rate of tissue penetration was significantly higher in the 808 nm wavelength group as compared with the 670 nm wavelength group (P<0.05); serum T level was not significantly higher in the experimental groups as compared with the control group; but serum T level was significantly elevated in the 670 nm wavelength group on day 4. Thus the LLLT using a 670-nm diode laser was effective in increasing serum T level without causing any visible histopathological side effects. In conclusion, the LLLT might be an alternative treatment modality to the conventional types of testosterone replacement therapy.

 

 

I found this from DatBtrue forum:

 

I don't know where to post stuff sometimes and the god awful truth is that I forget half the stuff I "know"... this means some might ask about Mucuna pruriens and some of the good stuff never makes it into a reply. Anyway...

Why do I use or did use Mucuna pruriens pre-bed and how may this knowledge help others who sleep problems on Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRP-2?

I once did an experiment where I administered an entire vial of GHRP-2 (5mg) pre-bed. It gave me horribly choppy sleep. After three nights I couldn't stand it any more so I took anti-cortisols. NOTHING. So I took a prolactin antagonist Cabergoline... actually woke up in the middle of the night and took one... I was throwing in the towel... I couldn't stand the insomnia any more. Well it worked like a charm. I went off to sleep and had a good rest of the night.

The reason people have problems with Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRPs is often due to their sensitivity to prolactin.

One subtle way to enhance the GH pulse at night and lower any prolactin that comes from peptide usage pre-bed is to dose Mucuna pruriens (40% L-Dopa) pre-bed. When I traveled often I would not take the peptides... I'd always take the Mucuna pruriens. I'd sleep well and wake refreshed.

From, 
 

Suppressive Effect Of L-Dopa On Human Prolactin Release During Sleep, Kazuo Chihara, Acta Endocrinologica, Vol 81, Issue 1, 19-27 1976

Abstract

Immunoreactive plasma human prolactin (HPr) and human growth hormone (HGH) concentrations were measured in six normal young men with polygraphic sleep monitoring during normal sleep and during sleep in which 1-dihydroxyphenylalanine (1-DOPA) was infused intravenously at a rate of 0.8 to 1.0 mg/min. The intravenous infusion of 1-DOPA significantly suppressed the episodic release of HPr during sleep and the occurrence of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep. However, HGH release during sleep was not remarkably influenced by 1-DOPA. 

These results suggest that central catecholaminergic neural mechanisms are related to both sleep-related HPr release and REM sleep, but do not play an important role in sleep-related HGH release.

Now you might read that and wonder about REM sleep reduction. Usage of Mucuna pruriens (40% L-Dopa) pre-bed is not the same thing as L-Dopa infusion. What it will do is damp down prolactin expression when the peptides are originally active... they should counter any potential side effect from Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRPs without unduly effecting REM sleep.

What else do we get from Mucuna pruriens?
 

Mucuna pruriens has antioxidant properties and contains a significant amount of nutrients including coenzyme Q-10 and NADH and other unidentified compounds. - Manyam BV, Neuroprotective effects of antiparkinson drug Mucuna pruriens, Phytother Res 18: 706–712

"Mucuna pruriens possesses significantly higher antiparkinson activity compared with levodopa in the 6-hydroxydopamine (6-OHDA) lesioned rat model of Parkinson's disease. The present study evaluated the neurorestorative effect of Mucuna pruriens cotyledon powder on the nigrostriatal tract of 6-OHDA lesioned rats. Mucuna pruriens cotyledon powder significantly increased the brain mitochondrial complex-I activity but did not affect the total monoamine oxidase activity (in vitro). Unlike synthetic levodopa treatment, Mucuna pruriens cotyledon powder treatment significantly restored the endogenous levodopa, dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin content in the substantia nigra. Nicotine adenine dinucleotide (NADH) and coenzyme Q-10, that are shown to have a therapeutic benefit in Parkinson's disease, were present in the Mucuna pruriens cotyledon powder. Earlier studies showed that Mucuna pruriens treatment controls the symptoms of Parkinson's disease. This additional finding of a neurorestorative benefit by Mucuna pruriens cotyledon powder on the degenerating dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra may be due to increased complex-I activity and the presence of NADH and coenzyme Q-10." - Ibid

Therapeutic
 

The significance of the present findings is that, Mucuna pruriens, while possessing its anti-parkinson properties, has protective effects on DNA from damages that can eventually induce apoptotic cell death and neurodegeneration as seen in Parkinson’s disease. The results support the neuroprotective properties of Mucuna pruriens and its importance as a safe and effective drug against Parkinson’s disease with several advantages. - Anti-Parkinson Botanical Mucuna pruriens Prevents Levodopa Induced Plasmid and Genomic DNA Damage, Binu Tharakan,PHYTOTHERAPY RESEARCH Phytother. Res. 21, 1124–1126 (2007)

What sort of damage is Mucuna pruriens preventing?
 

"The ancient Indian medical system, Ayurveda, described Mucuna pruriens Bak as a useful agent for Parkinson’s disease (Manyam, 1990). The therapeutic effect of Mucuna pruriens has been attributed to a combination of unidentified substances and levodopa and is found to be 2–3 times more effective than compatible doses of levodopa in the animal model of Parkinson’s disease (Hussain and Manyam, 1997). Unlike levodopa, Mucuna pruriens has shown not to induce dyskinesia in the monkey model of Parkinson’s disease (Subramanian et al., 2002) or in patients with Parkinson’s disease (Katzenschlager et al., 2004).

The trace element copper is vital to normal body functions and is involved in a multitude of cellular activities including respiration, immune response and angiogenesis. Divalent copper (Cu++) is present within the cell nucleus and plays a pivotal role in the stru tural integrity of chromatin in close proximity to DNA. DNA has binding affinity to levodopa as well as Cu++. Cu++ concentrations in the brains of patients with Parkinson’s disease are reported to be high (Spencer et al., 1994), which may promote oxidative damage to DNA. In the presence of Cu++, hydrogen peroxide undergoes Fenton reaction to yield hydroxyl radicals, which can possibly damage DNA. DNA is considered to be an easy target for several functionally inactivating damage in the body. Oxidative DNA damage and apoptotic cell death are important factors in the pathophysiology of Parkinson’s disease. Neurons obtained from postmortem parkinsonian brain exhibit significant apoptotic features such as cell shrinkage, chromatin condensation, DNA fragmentation and activation of caspase-3. Levodopa in the presence of Cu++ is known to inflict intense DNA damage (Spencer et al., 1994; Husain and Hadi, 1995).

The main objective of the present study was to evaluate the effects of Mucuna pruriens on levodopa induced DNA damage and its ability to chelate divalent copper. - Ibid

...and they found that it did.

Anyway I just find that Mucuna pruriens is a perfect pre-bed supplement.

 

 

 

 

 

If you look at the pdf you would see that many of the subjects in the study had an increase in penis size.

http://onlinelibrary...2065.x/abstract

 

J Androl. 1998 Sep-Oct;19(5):619-24.

Effects of levodopa on nocturnal penile tumescence: a preliminary study.

Horita H¹, Sato Y, Adachi H, Suzuki N, Kato R, Hisasue S, Suzuki K, Tsukamoto T.

Author information

Abstract

We studied the effects of levodopa (L-dopa), which is reported to increase the dopamine level in the brain, on male erectile function. Of the 21 subjects studied, 12 subjects who were 50 years old or older showed significant increases of two nocturnal penile tumescence (NPT) parameters, NPT frequency and total tumescence time, with L-dopa. On the other hand, in nine subjects who were younger than 50 years, maximum penile circumference increase showed a significant increment with L-dopa. This significant increment of NPT with L-dopa was not observed in the subjects who had low androgen levels. The results of this preliminary study show a positive relationship between administration of L-dopa and erectile function. L-Dopa administration may improve erectile function in subjects aged 50 years and older who have normal androgen levels.

 

 

 

 

[Tubzy]

So just wanted to give a quick update. I have been doing this lately with much improvement especially with sleep and anxiety.

Tongkat Ali from World ABS (boost FREE testosterone)
Zinc picolinate 50mg before bed (sleep like a rock)
USP labs Powerfull for prolactin and dopamine
Fish oil
COQ10
ALCAR (increase androgen receptor and for brain fog)
R-ALA (cellular support, insulin sensitivity)

I got off the preg and some of the other supplements. Brain fog has improved and so had anxiety. I'm assuming from the COQ10 and alcar.

One thing which I still believe is elevated is my estrogen. Although I dont have bloods to prove it I still feel somewhat bloated and puffy. I'm not sure if this is a symptom but my sack has always been tight even during propecia and when coming off. Pre fin my sack would be hang low and relaxed etc. Could this be from high estrogen? I started liquidex at .25 EOD just to see if I notice anything.

Also Area 1255 has been helping me a lot and definitely would recommend talking to him about any hormonal issues or checking out his site...very helpful

Edited by Tubzy, 29 July 2015 - 05:11 PM.