34 replies to this topic

[Flex]

Hi

I´ve found some interresting stuff about the food perservative sodium benzoate aka E211.

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Allergic/pseudoallergic reactions could occur among other side-effects !

Take a look in this thread (Post #3) for some further side-effects

http://www.longecity...on/#entry684553

 

So inform Yourself or better ask Your Doctor about any side effects and interactions !!

I dont want to be responsible for anything !!

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- Inhibition of the degradation of D-serine via D-amino acid oxidase inhibition.

  It could (1) reach the VTA and therefore increase Dopamine in the PFC and maybe other areas within the mesocortical  

  dopamine system.

  An increase in of Dopamine in the PFC seems to be good for schizophrenia and ADHD

 

- An increases in the volumes of the thalamus, amygdala and Brainstem in drug-naive depressive patients (2)

 

- An upregulation of DJ-1, which is implicated in Parkinson and it seems to upregulate Vmat2 [*] (3) (4)

 

- D-serine seems to increase Neurogenesis (5)

 

(1) we show that injection into the VTA of sodium benzoate, a DAO inhibitor, increases frontal cortex extracellular dopamine, as measured by in vivo microdialysis and high performance liquid chromatography. Combining sodium benzoate and D-serine did not enhance this effect, and injection of D-serine alone affected dopamine metabolites but not dopamine. These data show that DAO is expressed in the VTA, and suggest that it impacts on the mesocortical dopamine system. The mechanism by which the observed effects occur, and the implications of these findings for schizophrenia therapy, require further study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24822045

 

(2)

Sodium benzoate, a D-amino acid oxidase inhibitor, increased volumes of thalamus, amygdala, and brainstem in a drug-naïve patient with major depression.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23487233

 

(3)

Sodium Benzoate, a Metabolite of Cinnamon and a Food Additive, Upregulates Neuroprotective Parkinson Disease Protein DJ-1 in Astrocytes and Neurons

http://link.springer...1481-011-9286-3

 

(4) DJ-1 protects against dopamine toxicity: implications for Parkinson's disease and aging

Overexpression of DJ-1 protected cells against dopamine toxicity, reduced oxidative stress, and increased VMAT2 expression and function.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22887838

 

(5)

D-serine increases adult hippocampal neurogenesis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24009551

 

[*] What is Vmat2 good for ?

Here You go:

 

Increased vesicular monoamine transporter enhances dopamine release and opposes Parkinson disease-related neurodegeneration in vivo

Here, we report a novel mouse model of enhanced vesicular function via bacterial artificial chromosome (BAC)-mediated overexpression of the vesicular monoamine transporter 2 (VMAT2; Slc18a2). A twofold increase in vesicular transport enhances the vesicular capacity for dopamine (56%), dopamine vesicle volume (33%), and basal tissue dopamine levels (21%) in the mouse striatum. The elevated vesicular capacity leads to an increase in stimulated dopamine release (84%) and extracellular dopamine levels (44%). VMAT2-overexpressing mice show improved outcomes on anxiety and depressive-like behaviors and increased basal locomotor activity (41%).

http://www.pnas.org/...7/9977.abstract

 

Btw: For those who came to this thread in search of something antidepressive, here is a possible cause of  depression:

Stress

 

Cell death and endoplasmic reticulum stress: disease relevance and therapeutic opportunities

http://www.nature.co...ll/nrd2755.html

 

The protective role of Bax Inhibitor-1 against chronic mild stress through the inhibition of monoamine oxidase A

http://www.nature.co.../srep03398.html

 

Edited by Flex, 03 September 2014 - 08:50 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

I have and used Sodium Benzoate only twice, it gave me too much brainfog.. Maybe I'll give it another go after I read the papers you posted.

[Flex]

Its just what I´ve found.

I have ordered it and will try small doses tomorrow or in the next days and then report.

Edited by Flex, 04 September 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

Great you brought this up, I almost forgot that owned sodium benzoate. Interesting what it does to the VTA and PFC (VTA/PFC is the region I clearly have some issues with), also gonna give it another go, starting tonight. I'll also update.

[Flex]

Thx

 

I dont know if You know this, but anyway:

 

The highly selective 5-HT1A agonist BAY x 3702 (BAY; 10-40 microg/kg, i.v.) increased the firing rate and burst firing of DA neurons in the ventral tegmental area (VTA) and DA release in the VTA and mPFC. The increase in DA release in both areas was potentiated by nomifensine coperfusion.

Involvement of 5-HT1A receptors in prefrontal cortex in the modulation of dopaminergic activity: role in atypical antipsychotic action.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16306396

 

[Sunifiramses II]

This interests me because sodium benzoate is a known metabolite[1] of cinnamon, which in turn is known to have benefits[2] in controlling blood sugar. I started supplementing cinnamon recently because I've had issues with anxiety causing hypoglycemia and "stress eating." I think it's helped somewhat.

 

1: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2862570/

2: http://examine.com/s...ments/Cinnamon/

[Flex]

Great ! Thank You.

Edited by Flex, 04 September 2014 - 09:59 PM.

[aarfai]

As Sunifiramses II and Flex noted Sodium Benzoate seems to relieve the symptoms of depression and anxiety.

 

http://neuro.psychia...ticleID=1660544

[Flex]

So, good news and bad news

it has distinct antidepressive properties especially for my distinct depression, but it causes brainfog and confusion similair to low/mid doses of DXM

 

Regarding my depression: I cant even drink alcohol, because it would increase it. Also Sarcosine+ Aspargic acid increases it, but low dose DXM does nothing. 

 

First experience :

I´ve ingested arround 1 gram. The taste is bad. Its sweetish / chemical but not as bad as NSI-189.

I´ve taken it on empty stomach. It started to kick in after 15 min and lasted mainly arround 2 hours.

Feeling was slight stimulant like and antidepressive (but not a clean feeling) accompanied with a light head pressure.

my bloodpressure was 154/94 (130-140/ 80-90 is usual for me).

Hard to explain, the effects are somehow weird. I would never use it when I´m out or not alone.

Confusion held on for ~1 hour (T3.00). after the confusion, there came a dopamine-like after glow with slight headaches.

It has been 5 hours since I´ve ingested it and I feel still a bit exhausted

The feeling remebered me somewhat on Sarcosin

There is a mood elevating effect which held continously on from the 15th min uptill now. But as said with a weird note.

Resumee: I cant say for now whether I would keep on with it.

 

Controversially, the participants in the study below didnt expect confusion. Just the headpressure

within doses from 40 over 80 to 160mg/kg. So 80mg/kg *80 kg = 6.4 grams !?

http://link.springer...00315519#page-1

 

@YoungSchizo

If this did not discourage You, try better a half gram

 

Btw:

- make sure that You get foodgrade stuff

- And do a allergy test before consumption i.e.

Measure out approximately 5 mg. of your material (this does not have to be overly exact as long as it is fairly close to 5 mg., really anywhere from 2-10 mg. is fine). Dissolve your 5 mg. in 1 liter of distilled water and allow to go into solution. Your solution should now have a concentration of approximately 5 µg. / ml. Measure out 1 ml of water and hold it in your mouth for 5-10 minutes to see if any reaction occurs.

https://www.drugs-fo...cal_Users_Guide

 

- In combination with ascorbic acid (vitamin C, E300), sodium benzoate and potassium benzoate form benzene, a known carcinogen. When tested by the FDA, most beverages that contained both ascorbic acid and benzoate had benzene levels that were below those considered dangerous for consumption by the World Health Organization (5 ppb)

http://en.wikipedia....Sodium_benzoate

Edited by Flex, 05 September 2014 - 08:24 PM.

[normalizing]

sodium benzoate is metabolite that comes from all fruit consumption. why would you wanna take it by itself? i do understand you expect and want to feel its effects rapid and more noticable manner, but i assume long term small doses will be better than speedy bigger faster doses, no?

[Flex]

First of all, I didnt know any of these informations what You´ve posted and in regards of the dose:

I´ve found only the food additive doses(5mg/kg) and the medical emergency doses ( 1g - several grams)

Therefore I could only guess what dose would be actually sufficient to feel anything from it.

 

I´ve looked for the occurence in food and found this report

http://www.inchem.or...ctionNumber:4.1

 

But I still dont know which dosage would be sufficient and, for me personally, I dont want to eat the whole day selected food instead of just take one dose and thats it.

Therefore if I´m keeping on with this, I would rather stick with this powder to know the dosage what I´m currently taking

and work it out from homeopathic dosages, up to the sweetspot.

 

Edited by Flex, 05 September 2014 - 09:55 PM.

[Metagene]

Updates? My supply of sodium benzoate won't arrive until Friday.

[Flex]

My depressions came back, so I´m having a little break.

Although it abolished my depressions for arround 2 days, I decided to switch to theaflavin and see whether it helps.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22634505

Will try Sodium benzoate again soon.

 

 

Edited by Flex, 10 September 2014 - 12:47 AM.

[Infinityandbeyond]

please keep us updated

[Metagene]

Well I was wrong about Friday.

 image.jpg   171.88KB   0 downloads

I started with 5mg then after 5-10 minutes escalated the dosage to 1g. An hour after that I up to a full 6.4g without incident. Not too bad aside from the unpleasant aftertaste. I will stick to lower doses from now on however.

[Flex]

So You didnt had any side effects ? What effects do You´ve noticed  ?

 

 

Edited by Flex, 10 September 2014 - 08:32 PM.

[Metagene]

Just a bit of little drowsiness and a slight cramping
in my left arm.

Edited by Metagene, 10 September 2014 - 08:48 PM.

[Flex]

Thx

Actually Your experience i.e. lack of side effects, fits with the reports in the studies.

I´m now even more curious why I´ve experienced such effects.

Forgott to mention: I´ve stopped taking my daily 45mg of Mitrazepine one day prior of my first consumption, but the half-life is 20-30 hours.

So perhaps the a2 antagonism could play a role, because it increases glutamate (and therefore increases glutamate toxicity btw.)

I´ve quit Mitrazepine past Friday because of the Yo-yo effect (histamine sedation VS a2 agitation) in regards of the sleep

and changed currently to either Trazodone, Cyproheptadine or Doxylamine

I´m curious whether this would change the effects of NaBe.

 

 

 

[Metagene]

I will hold off on my second dose of memantine today to see if drowsiness occurs on 1g. I slept for five hours and woke up around 11:45 a.m with some throat irritation. No other complaints to speak of.

I tried to find possible interactions with NMDA antagonists but only came across a treatment for nonketotic hyperglycinemia using Dextromethorphan and sodium benzoate.

http://www.unboundme...a_in_an_infant_

Edited by Metagene, 11 September 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[the_apollo]

Does the Sodium Benzoate be in a specific form? Or should any Sodium Benzoate work? say the kind you can buy in the store?

[Flex]

No, just the usual E211 / Natriumbenzoat

 

Go in a supermarket to the Gelly Marmelade / pickles -section and look for food perservatives.

At least I have found this one here in Germany http://www.so-schmec...chhilfe-ostmann

However its not pure E211

Edited by Flex, 05 October 2014 - 05:01 PM.

[Metagene]

Food grade might be more manageable lab grade otherwise its the same.

I purchase online btw.

Edited by Metagene, 05 October 2014 - 05:05 PM.

[the_apollo]

No, just the usual E211 / Natriumbenzoat

 

Go in a supermarket to the Gelly Marmelade / pickles -section and look for food perservatives.

At least I have found this one here in Germany http://www.so-schmec...chhilfe-ostmann

However its not pure E211

 

 

Well, i found sodium benzoat in a store here in Sweden, with the name "Natriumbensoat", the swedish translation for sodium benzoat, its E211.

The manufacturer lists only one ingredient, E211.

I tried 1 gram of it, (twice on separate days), felt absolutely nothing, nothing!

Inst that strange?

[Flex]

You are not the only one.

Metagene hasnt felt much either.

[protoject]

maybe slightly off topic, thought id add me 1 cent. ,  i havent tried sodium benzoate but i think there was some evidence for potassium sorbate, though not any evidence regarding oral ingestion of it in humans, anyway i tried taking a bunch of that (cant remember how much, maybe a couple grams?? dont know it was years ago) and it didnt do a single thing to my D-serine / D-sarcosine effects (noticable)

[Metagene]

You are not the only one.

Metagene hasnt felt much either.

 

Yeah but I haven't kept up a consistent dosing schedule. The schizophrenia add on trial lasted 6 weeks 1g/d.

 

I feel like a deranged mad man constantly altering stacks though right now I'm limited to:

 

Morning

 

Modafinil

Borneol

Curcumin

 

 

Night

 

Melatonin

Lavender oil 

[YoungSchizo]

I also tested it for a couple of days, 1g/day, didn't notice anything. So, again, didn't test it proper to draw a conclusion. (Maybe it will catch my attention again if there are more study results in the future, right now I'm happy with the noots I recently added to my stack!) 

[normalizing]

why are you taking borneol, cant just settle for regular perfume?

[Flex]

I havent tried it since the last time, because I cant replace Mitrazepine with anything else for my insomnia.

I fear a bit Excitotoxicity because of the a2 inhibition and glutamate mechanisms of NaBe + the long half-life of Mitrazepine.

 

So  at the end of this month, I´ll get perhaps a chance to make a break with Mitrazepine.

 

 

 

Edited by Flex, 07 October 2014 - 03:09 PM.

[Metagene]

why are you taking borneol, cant just settle for regular perfume?

Borneol is a bioenhancer among other things. Its going to time but I'll have more on that front later.