130 replies to this topic

[YOLF]

BulkSupplements Pure Melatonin Powder (100 grams) 

 

"About the product

• Clean & Pure Powder. No Fillers.
• Factory Sealed Foil Zip Pouch.
• Lab Tested for Verification & Guaranteed Purity."

I take approximately 150mg measured with a laboratory balance-beam scale.

An alternative way to measure would be with a packed 1/32 tsp which is quite close.

I add the measured dose to a half teaspoon of fresh DeCarlo olive oil before swallowing it.

Ah, so you're counting on it to make lipid conjugates? That's going to make (some of) it last longer in addition to giving it more rapid entry to the blood stream.

 

Do you do this daily or sporadically?

[RWhigham]

YOLF

Do you do this daily or sporadically?

Daily, at bedtime, except when doing Turnbuckle's Stem Cell protocol,with which, fission stimulants are not allowed..

Edited by RWhigham, 28 June 2018 - 05:27 AM.

[RWhigham]

Hyperfission stack

  Nicotinamide 2g 4cap -> NAD+ -> fission/mitophagy/autophagy

  Ribose 2g -> NAD+ 

  Dynveo_GSC 2 cap 200mg -> NAD+ -> fission/mitophagy/autophagy

  Pterostilbene 2 cap 100mg +PPAR_alpha +SIRT1/NAD+ -> fission/+mitophagy

  Pomgranate 5 tab ellagic ac 1g -> selective mitophagy

  Resveratrol 5 cap 500mg +SIRT1/neuroprot/otoliths +T3 -BPPV/cancer -TSH

  DHEA 3 tab 75mg prevents resveratrol side-effects

  EMIQ quercetin 1cap 50mg -> nuclear_NAD+

  Apigenin 4cap 200mg  -> nuclear_NAD+ 

  AMPK Activator (Jiaogulan) 2cap 450mg -> AMPK

  Fisetin 1cap 100mg -> sirt1/fission

  Melatonin 150mg

 

Melatonin did not belong on the above list. Just the opposite.  Melatonin should be avoided ahead of mitochondrial hyper-fission cleanup (for the same reason as C60_EVOO, it protects the mitochondria). Melatonin could be taken the next day because it increases mitophagy. Melatonin should enhance, not hinder, the Turnbuckle Stem Cell protocol. I'll be taking it at the same time as the C60_EVOO.

 

References

 

Melatonin: A Mitochondrial Targeting Molecule Involving Mitochondrial Protection and Dynamics

 

Concentrates in mitochondria "It accumulates in mitochondria with high concentration against a concentration gradient. This is probably achieved by an active transportation via mitochondrial melatonin transporter(s)"

 

Protects mitochondria from ROS "Melatonin protects mitochondria by scavenging reactive oxygen species (ROS), inhibiting the mitochondrial permeability transition pore (MPTP), and activating uncoupling proteins (UCPs). Thus, melatonin maintains the optimal mitochondrial membrane potential and preserves mitochondrial functions."

 

Promotes mitochondrial autophagy "melatonin has been found to promote mitophagy and improve homeostasis of mitochondria."

 

 Promotes mitochondrial fusion "In most cases, melatonin reduces mitochondrial fission and elevates their fusion." 

 

Melatonin as a mitochondria-targeted antioxidant: one of evolution's best ideas.

 

Melatonin is evolutionarily conserved "Melatonin is an ancient antioxidant. After its initial development in bacteria, it has been retained throughout evolution such that it may be or may have been present in every species that have existed."

 

Melatonin has never changed "Even though it has been maintained throughout evolution during the diversification of species, melatonin's chemical structure has never changed;  "the melatonin present in currently living humans is identical to that present in cyanobacteria that have existed on Earth for billions of years." 

 

Melatonin targets mitochondria "melatonin is specifically targeted to the mitochondria where it seems to function as an apex antioxidant."

 

Melatonin promotes mitophagy "Recently, melatonin has been found to promote mitophagy and improve homeostasis of mitochondria."

 

Edited by RWhigham, 28 June 2018 - 04:25 PM.

[YOLF]

Wow apparently I'm wrong about safety limit. I'm seeing on examine that it's safe to take 500mg!

 

I still think there is some need for caution as a tolerance can develop. Years ago I had found it difficult to sleep without it when taking it on a regular basis and was only taking 600mcg.. I wasn't using it for sleep so much as for it's other benefits.

 

When you switch to TB's protocol, do you stay away from the melatonin for a few days? I know that especially at higher doses, melatonin one night will also increase it for the next and perhaps a few nights beyond that.

 

How might sleep deprivation affect the fission stack?

Edited by YOLF, 28 June 2018 - 03:39 PM.

[RWhigham]

 

YOLF

When you switch to TB's protocol, do you stay away from the melatonin for a few days? I know that especially at higher doses, melatonin one night will also increase it for the next and perhaps a few nights beyond that.

I was posting at the same time you were. I had mischaracterized melatonin as a fission agonist. It is not. Ii should be ok to take melatonin before with the C60 at bedtime when doing the SC protocol.

 

However, I may have messed up hyperfission stack with melatonin. I will discontinue melatonin and the Turnbuckle SC protocol for a couple of weeks and repeat the hyperfission stack (without the erroneous melatonin) to verify my mitos are cleaned up. Then resume the SC protocol.

Edited by RWhigham, 28 June 2018 - 04:45 PM.

[aribadabar]

 

Hyperfission stack

  Nicotinamide 2g 4cap -> NAD+ -> fission/mitophagy/autophagy

  Ribose 2g -> NAD+ 

  Dynveo_GSC 2 cap 200mg -> NAD+ -> fission/mitophagy/autophagy

  Pterostilbene 2 cap 100mg +PPAR_alpha +SIRT1/NAD+ -> fission/+mitophagy

  Pomgranate 5 tab ellagic ac 1g -> selective mitophagy

  Resveratrol 5 cap 500mg +SIRT1/neuroprot/otoliths +T3 -BPPV/cancer -TSH

  DHEA 3 tab 75mg prevents resveratrol side-effects

  EMIQ quercetin 1cap 50mg -> nuclear_NAD+

  Apigenin 4cap 200mg  -> nuclear_NAD+ 

  AMPK Activator (Jiaogulan) 2cap 450mg -> AMPK

  Fisetin 1cap 100mg -> sirt1/fission

 

I would caution anyone under 50 to stay below 50 mg/d DHEA - even that is playing with fire IMO, especially if taking it daily. 25mg should be sufficient.

What works fine for someone in his 70s may not be safe for those whose hormone levels are still somewhat normal.

 

The rest seem normal and I have taken most of them in one shot without noteworthy issues.

Edited by aribadabar, 28 June 2018 - 05:25 PM.

[RWhigham]

I would caution anyone under 50 to stay below 50 mg/d DHEA - even that is playing with fire IMO, especially if taking it daily. 25mg should be sufficient.

Since the hyper-fission stack would only to be taken a few times, the dose of DHEA would not matter.

Turnbuckle reported that the aches and pains he gets from resveratrol were prevented when he took it with DHEA.  May not be applicable to most people.

 

Taking DHEA for hormone supplementation is a different topic. For an interesting take on it see Jeff T. Bowles speculative article: The 6 Changes in Lifetime Hormone Levels that Cause Aging – And How to Easily Reverse Them  (with melatonin, DHEA, and pregnenolone).

Edited by RWhigham, 28 June 2018 - 09:21 PM.

[YOLF]

I would caution anyone under 50 to stay below 50 mg/d DHEA - even that is playing with fire IMO, especially if taking it daily. 25mg should be sufficient.

What works fine for someone in his 70s may not be safe for those whose hormone levels are still somewhat normal.

 

The rest seem normal and I have taken most of them in one shot without noteworthy issues.

I don't have any references either, but this makes sense and jives with my personal experience. Though I've quit taking DHEA altogether. It raises DHT and I prefer to inhibit conversion of T to DHT as I feel healthier.

 

Anyways, taking 5mg of DHEA greatly improved my accuracy at things like darts, but 10mg, at least when I started taking it would make my eyes burn and sting. 50mg was even worse, I was pretty scared with the results the first time I tried it in my late 20s. I've still had these side effects from similar dosing more recently, so I have to assume that DHEA is overrated and most people who are taking it won't realize how the DHT is going to destroy their skin on certain aging parameters compared to what maintaining healthy young T levels would do for them. I know there is information that says otherwise, but it's incomplete. I suppose if you are going to take it, make sure that you take it with Cat's claw and something acidic to block the DHT producing enzyme.

[aribadabar]

Since the hyper-fission stack would only to be taken a few times, the dose of DHEA would not matter.

Turnbuckle reported that the aches and pains he gets from resveratrol were prevented when he took it with DHEA.  May not be applicable to most people.

 

Taking DHEA for hormone supplementation is a different topic. For an interesting take on it see Jeff T. Bowles speculative article: The 6 Changes in Lifetime Hormone Levels that Cause Aging – And How to Easily Reverse Them  (with melatonin, DHEA, and pregnenolone).

 

Sir, with all due respect, 75mg DHEA is a serious single dose for everyone so size does matter.

As YOLF above, I also felt the negatives at 25mg DHEA which is why I decided to caution the others.

 

You cannot direct DHEA for fission only and isolate its hormone-modifying properties. It does and will work systemically whether one wants that particular effect or not.

[Rocket]

Why would resveratrol cause aches and pains? High doses of liposom resveratrol wiped out some carpal tunnel in my wrist I was beginning to suffer from.

[Nate-2004]

 

Hyperfission stack

  Nicotinamide 2g 4cap -> NAD+ -> fission/mitophagy/autophagy

  Ribose 2g -> NAD+ 

  Dynveo_GSC 2 cap 200mg -> NAD+ -> fission/mitophagy/autophagy

  Pterostilbene 2 cap 100mg +PPAR_alpha +SIRT1/NAD+ -> fission/+mitophagy

  Pomgranate 5 tab ellagic ac 1g -> selective mitophagy

  Resveratrol 5 cap 500mg +SIRT1/neuroprot/otoliths +T3 -BPPV/cancer -TSH

  DHEA 3 tab 75mg prevents resveratrol side-effects

  EMIQ quercetin 1cap 50mg -> nuclear_NAD+

  Apigenin 4cap 200mg  -> nuclear_NAD+ 

  AMPK Activator (Jiaogulan) 2cap 450mg -> AMPK

  Fisetin 1cap 100mg -> sirt1/fission

  Melatonin 150mg

 

 

Most of that makes sense except quercetin and melatonin, why would either of those affect fission or NAD+?

[RWhigham]

ROCKET

Why would resveratrol cause aches and pains? High doses of liposom resveratrol wiped out some carpal tunnel in my wrist I was beginning to suffer from.

I don't know. I  just mentioned Turnbuckle's experience from some years ago. [It was so long ago it's difficult to find the relevant posts].

He recently had liposomal resveratrol in his stem cell renewal stack and did not report adverse effects.

Speculation: A liposomal formulation would prevent GI alteration, so perhaps his particular GI bugs caused his past experience.

 

NATE

Most of that makes sense except quercetin and melatonin, why would either of those affect fission or NAD+?

Melatonin was on this list by mistake, See post #63

Quercetin: See post #1 from "Senescent cell apoptosis by inhibiting p53 with Sirt1 instead of Fox04-DRI"  Quote:. "Apigenin + quercetin blocks CD38 from entering the cell nucleus restoring nuclear NAD+ to youthful levels Ref"

Edited by RWhigham, 29 June 2018 - 07:54 PM.

[YOLF]

I think it's also worth noting that lines often get blurred between anti aging/rejuvenation and healthy aging. I think the blur has bled into DHEA. It makes up for some deficiencies of aging and more can assist with healthy aging, but it's going to be limited and it's not going to help you get back to your twenties, it might even prevent that level of aging regression.

[RWhigham]

RWhigham  

I don't know. I  just mentioned Turnbuckle's experience from some years ago. [It was so long ago it's difficult to find the relevant posts].

He recently had liposomal resveratrol in his stem cell renewal stack and did not report adverse effects.

Speculation: A liposomal formulation would prevent GI alteration, so perhaps his particular GI bugs caused his past experience.

Correction:  It was liposomal glutathione in the stem cell stack. Turnbuckle's recent resveratrol use here was not liposomal. It was used in a senescent cell removal experiment and he did not mention any issue with it.

 

 

Edited by RWhigham, 30 June 2018 - 01:50 AM.

[Kentavr]

1. Why do not you use peptides that stimulate the production of your own melatonin?

 

2. Do you understand that in case of a sharp cancellation of melatonin, you may have a failure in the endocrine system? It is very dangerous. You can become a permanent oncologist patient.

 

 

Moreover, I can not say that after the cancellation of melatonin intake your body will start to allocate its own.

 

Since your hypothalamus constantly sees the peak values ​​of melatonin in the body, therefore, it does not send signals to the epiphysis for its production.

It is possible, he can stop sending signals forever. "To be lost".

 

In this case, you will have to take melatonin for life, and not miss a single day.

 

Edited by Kentavr, 01 July 2018 - 08:00 PM.

[YOLF]

Well, it would be very expensive I'm sure compared to a $3-10/month bottle of melatonin. Peptides on the other hand are very expensive.

 

If you do suffer from dependance after using melatonin or using it the wrong way, then yes chronic lack of sleep could increase cancer risk and push susceptible people over the cancer cliff. The posters so far for whatever reason don't seem to be facing dependency.

 

I've recovered from melatonin dependency more than once. Glycine will do the trick, as will exhaustive cardio, maybe magnesium food sources such as almonds. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't published somewhere, but any particular bit of information is as limited as the information included with it. Nothing is certain except taxes.

[Nate-2004]

 

1. Why do not you use peptides that stimulate the production of your own melatonin?

 

2. Do you understand that in case of a sharp cancellation of melatonin, you may have a failure in the endocrine system? It is very dangerous. You can become a permanent oncologist patient.

 

 

Moreover, I can not say that after the cancellation of melatonin intake your body will start to allocate its own.

 

Since your hypothalamus constantly sees the peak values ​​of melatonin in the body, therefore, it does not send signals to the epiphysis for its production.

It is possible, he can stop sending signals forever. "To be lost".

 

In this case, you will have to take melatonin for life, and not miss a single day.

 

 

Absolutely false. There is ZERO evidence for this often repeated claim. I once spent hours looking for the evidence and not a single study on pub med mentions this and on top of that, one clinical trial actually concluded the opposite. I asked the question on the /r/AskDrugNerds subreddit and the response was either "no this doesn't happen" or a link to that single study.

Edited by Nate-2004, 02 July 2018 - 07:16 PM.

[Kentavr]

Then this video is a lie?

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=U1JMcuNSEd8

[Hebbeh]

Then this video is a lie?

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=U1JMcuNSEd8

 

Either fear mongering lie or ill informed.  Either way, take your pick.

[Nate-2004]

Well, on top of not understanding a single lick of Russian, videos do not equal scientific evidence of anything. So yes, it's a lie. Come back with a published, peer reviewed controlled study or clinical trial that doesn't involve any obvious P hacking, agreeing with your claims, and that would constitute some evidence.

Edited by Nate-2004, 02 July 2018 - 09:52 PM.

[YOLF]

Well, the video source is from an MLM... I used the translate feature, but it just came across as a bunch of buzzwords. Russian grammar must differ pretty significantly from anything I'm familiar with.

 

Still, my personal experience says otherwise. In my mid to late twenties it would certainly lead to dependency, and while that dependency could have been related to other problems, I certainly had no problem sleeping prior to taking those first melatonin doses to enhance my GH output and P53 activation.

 

So it would be more productive to discuss under which circumstances one can develop a dependency on melatonin rather than to beat someone up for having an understanding that might require a depth of understanding that is beyond what we fanatical armchair biologists can understand from searching for specifics rather than trying to gain a much more broad understanding with which to assess the validity of a statement which falls outside the purview of our current knowledge.

Edited by YOLF, 03 July 2018 - 01:10 AM.

[QuestforLife]

I experienced no dependency issues, taking up to 100mg of melatonin a night, for months.

[RWhigham]

I experienced no dependency issues, taking up to 100mg of melatonin a night, for months.

 

I didn't either

Edited by RWhigham, 31 July 2018 - 03:26 PM.

[OP2040]

Like everyone here, I am interested in Thymic rejuvenation.  However, there is so little talk of it's actual benefits.  Even the mice studies seem to assume that it will be broadly beneficial, and focus on whether it can actually be done or not.  Does anyone have a study that shows the effects of rejuvenating the thymus in mice?  We can't just assume these things.  Apologies if this has already been covered, but a quick review of the major studies shows that they are only about the possibility of rejuvenation, not the consequences.

[Rocket]

Like everyone here, I am interested in Thymic rejuvenation.  However, there is so little talk of it's actual benefits.  Even the mice studies seem to assume that it will be broadly beneficial, and focus on whether it can actually be done or not.  Does anyone have a study that shows the effects of rejuvenating the thymus in mice?  We can't just assume these things.  Apologies if this has already been covered, but a quick review of the major studies shows that they are only about the possibility of rejuvenation, not the consequences.

 

Dr. Greg Fahy did a experiment on humans, rejuvenating the thymus with HGH+DHEA. Maybe someone can reach out to him about any benefits he saw in human beings. I would be more interested in hearing about humans rather than mice....

[OP2040]

I saw an interview with Fahy where he hints at some of the beneficial results he has seen.  They were just things like increased T-cells, etc.   The biggest benefit would be properly trained naive and regulatory T-cells.  However, assuming a rejuvenated Thymus does it's job youthfully, my concern would be how these new cells then react in is systemically aged environment.  Would the new cells be able to properly train the peripheral immune system is the elephant in the room.  After all, we know that ablating the immune system completely (or sometimes partially in the case of B-cells) has shown dramatic cures for things like M.S.  The immune system has a huge role in all age-related disease, so the potential is there. 

[albedo]

I saw an interview with Fahy where he hints at some of the beneficial results he has seen.  They were just things like increased T-cells, etc.   The biggest benefit would be properly trained naive and regulatory T-cells.  However, assuming a rejuvenated Thymus does it's job youthfully, my concern would be how these new cells then react in is systemically aged environment.  Would the new cells be able to properly train the peripheral immune system is the elephant in the room.  After all, we know that ablating the immune system completely (or sometimes partially in the case of B-cells) has shown dramatic cures for things like M.S.  The immune system has a huge role in all age-related disease, so the potential is there. 

 

Thank you. Have you a link to the interview? IIRC from a small chat with him last year he had a couple of papers being submitted but I likely overlooked them or they are still pending, these things take a long time to be completed. Maybe in the interviews he mentioned something.
 

[OP2040]

https://www.leafscie...ing-the-thymus/

 

[Florin]

Besides rejuvenating the thymus, the lymph nodes will probably need to be rejuvenated and old B-cells and T-cells removed to significantly improve immune system function.

 

Additional Evidence for Lymph Node Degeneration to be an Important Obstacle for Attempts at Thymus Rejuvenation
https://www.fightagi...s-rejuvenation/

 

Targeted Destruction of B Cells Rejuvenates the Immune System, but Other Obstacles Still Block Improvement of Immune Function
https://www.fightagi...mmune-function/

 

When and How Does the Decay of Your Immune System Start?
https://www.fightagi...-immune-system/

[albedo]

Results of TRIIM trial by Dr Greg Fahy are out and are encouraging !!

https://www.nature.c...586-019-02638-w

Cannot open https://doi.org/10.1111/acel.13028 though ...