194 replies to this topic

[axonopathy]

Hey, sorry I don't quite comprehend the implications of the OP's extensive research. I take mirtazepine and am wondering if the broad antihistamine action of mirtazepine would have any deleterious consequences? 

[Area-1255]

Hey, sorry I don't quite comprehend the implications of the OP's extensive research. I take mirtazepine and am wondering if the broad antihistamine action of mirtazepine would have any deleterious consequences? 

No, not necessarily, mirtazapine is actually a great drug, but I would take it with an H3 antagonist if you want to balance out it's effects and eliminate the sedative effects...which will then leave it's anti-depressant effects stronger than before....

 

THT is still down.

 

Try taking hollarhena antidysenterica daily with it...that will help enhance/modulate the effects of mirtazapine.

[Area-1255]

I'm not really re-assured by them being down a month past their said date. -_-

[HappyShoe]

http://area1255.blog...a-with.html?m=1

Ahh, ROYAL JELLY! Now I must find it. Health food stores definitely will have it. Have to get that ASAP.

 

Royal Jelly bought in stores is inactive garbage. Has to be high grade strictly controlled fresh frozen or freeze dried powder. It's highly heat sensitive and retailers don't give a damn about selling products that work, just ones that people will buy. Bee-Pollen-buzz.com produces theirs in the US, and are a canadian company. This matters since a lot of companies get theirs from Thailand(hot) and use child labor to harvest, and don't really have any quality control.

[stillwater]

 

Intriguing...

 

Currently googling histamine-rich foods, is there supplements that would be beneficial? 

There are no foods that contain histamine, but there some that contain the precursor to histamine; Histidine.

Histidine is then taken up into preferential tissues/cells in the body, where it meets with the enzyme "HDC" ; histidine decarboxylase.

This enzyme transforms histidine into histamine.

 

 

 

I'm a bit confused by this, I thought there are quite a few foods that contain histamine not histadine. Especially any fermented type foods such as sauerkraut, kimchi, cheese, beer, wine, etc...

 

There are even several supplements on the market that contain the DAO enzyme to help breakdown histamine in these foods.


Here is a pdf table showing which one's have high histamine levels.

http://www.mastocyto...iet Nov2012.pdf

 

 

[Area-1255]

 

 

Intriguing...

 

Currently googling histamine-rich foods, is there supplements that would be beneficial? 

There are no foods that contain histamine, but there some that contain the precursor to histamine; Histidine.

Histidine is then taken up into preferential tissues/cells in the body, where it meets with the enzyme "HDC" ; histidine decarboxylase.

This enzyme transforms histidine into histamine.

 

 

 

I'm a bit confused by this, I thought there are quite a few foods that contain histamine not histadine. Especially any fermented type foods such as sauerkraut, kimchi, cheese, beer, wine, etc...

 

There are even several supplements on the market that contain the DAO enzyme to help breakdown histamine in these foods.


Here is a pdf table showing which one's have high histamine levels.

http://www.mastocyto...iet Nov2012.pdf

 

There are no specific references to containing of histamine itself though, other than the portion talking about cooked meat and red meat being refrigerated "releasing histamine", biologically, the slight change in temperature in an animal no longer living should mean nothing. It's a little bit of a paradox I s'pose, but histamine is a biogenic amine, but that doesn't warrant it being said as morphed in the context given...if anything, it's just a more viable form of histidine or perhaps histidine is being decarboxylated partially. 

Active decarboxylation requires enzymes in a living intestine or other areas where blood flow is still intact.

[stillwater]

Here's another reference:

 

 

 http://www.michigana...histamine.shtml

 

 

I've ordered the DAO enzyme to see if it does help with the reactions I get from certain foods and drinks that they label as being high in histamine. Hopefully it works.

 

[Area-1255]

Here's another reference:

 

 

 http://www.michigana...histamine.shtml

 

 

I've ordered the DAO enzyme to see if it does help with the reactions I get from certain foods and drinks that they label as being high in histamine. Hopefully it works.

Here's the best reference, though still hard to tell if this is a result only of cooking and it may very well have more to do with preservatives and antibiotics in the food/drinks. 

 

http://ajcn.nutritio.../85/5/1185.long

 

Keep in mind, coffee and caffeine inhibit DAO so you may want to lower them or keep them low-intake or objectivised intake only.

There are many other chemicals that can increase histamine, and drugs like betablockers and some anti-depressants increase histamine release.

[Area-1255]

Also RUE plants have differential effects on histamine, rutaval, syrian, Hexa48 etc 

Pine pollen may have anti-histamine or pro-histamine effects, depending on how it is sourced and capsulized.

[Area-1255]

I think pea protein contains the highest amount of glutamic acid out of all vegetable proteins...also contains quite a bit of histidine. So I guess pea protein can be considered the most stimulating protein in the vegetable kingdom.

[DeadBrain]

I think pea protein contains the highest amount of glutamic acid out of all vegetable proteins...also contains quite a bit of histidine. So I guess pea protein can be considered the most stimulating protein in the vegetable kingdom.

(pukes current pea protein shake) (wipes head off)

[Area-1255]

 

I think pea protein contains the highest amount of glutamic acid out of all vegetable proteins...also contains quite a bit of histidine. So I guess pea protein can be considered the most stimulating protein in the vegetable kingdom.

(pukes current pea protein shake) (wipes head off)

 

Lmao. It's not that serious dude.

[stan08]

 

 

Histone's are totally different than histamine's. From what I've read, histamine is essential to the parasympathetic nervous system, and helps keep you in a relaxed state ; even though it can be stimulating - it's 360 degrees different than the stimulating action of adrenaline.
Histamine stimulates focus, and some aspects of spatial and intellectual functioning, low levels tend to lead to ADHD and hyperactivity, because histamine normally puts the brakes on too much adrenaline, as well as serotonin - histamine is absolutely essential for GABA and acetylcholine release, without histamine - GABA  and acetylcholine would sink to the floor.
This is the reason why histamine h3 antagonists are being investigated for low histamine conditions; as they would raise histamine through negative feedback ....and in turn release more GABA and acetylcholine - leading to treatment of mental diseases such as alszheimer's , dementia, schizophrenia, refractory OCD and anxiety disorders.

Ah! Thx Area_1255

 

Some get them confused from time to time, especially considering there is a lot of overlapping of medical terms. But in contrast, the production and breakdown on enzymes between histone's and histamine's are totally different.

 

HDC; histidine decarboxylase, is the enzyme by which histamine is synthesized from histidine

Antagonists for reducing histamine ; catechins, hesperidin, EGCG from greentea extract

HDC stimulators ;  copper antagonists, histamine h3 antagonists and a few other substrates

 

HMNT/HMT;   histamine methyltransferase - breaks down histamine by methylation, or methylation activates this enzyme, can be inhibited with syrian rue extract or harmala alkaloids

 

DAO; diamine oxidase, this enzyme breaks down histamine after it's been broken down by histamine methyltransferase and allows it to be eliminated from the body - a copper dependent enzyme

 

DAO inhibitors would be ; caffeine, folate, mega doses of zinc and anything else that opposes copper

 

 

Therefore if you are a low histamine individual....a quick fix would be

 

Conessine extract. syrian rue, caffeine, folate and high protein diet.

 

 

Do you know/understand the extent to which curcumin inhibits DAO (http://www.ncbi.nlm....bmed/20885979)?  I've been taking Longvida curcumin for a while and at first it decreased anxiety and improved mood.  However, the last week or two I get very "itchy" all over my torso and my anxiety/brain fog seems a little worse about an hour after taking it.  I've also noticed that I have been waking up with very watery, itchy eyes in the morning and my allergies seem to be worse (runny nose, constant throat clearing, etc.).  I'm wondering if curcumin inhibiting DAO could possibly be increasing my histamine levels too much (especially when using a curcumin supplement with a very high bio-availability).  Any info you have on this possible connection would be greatly appreciated.  

[Area-1255]

Did you notice the itchiness before or after reading that study? Serious question.

Just because it inhibits DAO in the small intestine; doesn't mean that it does that everywhere..it's most likely a selective event. 

Reason is because turmeric is often cited as an anti-inflammatory, now that would sort of hard to achieve if any appreciable/significant inhibition of DAO was present across the board. Moreover, if it inhibited DAO in other parts of the digestive system , I would be more concerned as in the degradation / affecting the function of digested histidines/histamines possibly translating to the effect you described, albeit due to a reverse of the paradigm.

 

I can't conclusively say whether curcumin will actually raise or lower histamine, but this study isn't enough evidence because it is confined to a very small region in a rat small intestine...it's VERY difficult to translate this to human variants PLUS its inhibitory activity on IL-5 and other enzymes contradicts this effect or at the least would be minimize any aggregatory effects on allergies or irritation responses.

 

 

Do you know/understand the extent to which curcumin inhibits DAO (http://www.ncbi.nlm....bmed/20885979)?  I've been taking Longvida curcumin for a while and at first it decreased anxiety and improved mood.  However, the last week or two I get very "itchy" all over my torso and my anxiety/brain fog seems a little worse about an hour after taking it.  I've also noticed that I have been waking up with very watery, itchy eyes in the morning and my allergies seem to be worse (runny nose, constant throat clearing, etc.).  I'm wondering if curcumin inhibiting DAO could possibly be increasing my histamine levels too much (especially when using a curcumin supplement with a very high bio-availability).  Any info you have on this possible connection would be greatly appreciated.  

 

[stan08]

 

Did you notice the itchiness before or after reading that study? Serious question.

Just because it inhibits DAO in the small intestine; doesn't mean that it does that everywhere..it's most likely a selective event. 

Reason is because turmeric is often cited as an anti-inflammatory, now that would sort of hard to achieve if any appreciable/significant inhibition of DAO was present across the board. Moreover, if it inhibited DAO in other parts of the digestive system , I would be more concerned as in the degradation / affecting the function of digested histidines/histamines possibly translating to the effect you described, albeit due to a reverse of the paradigm.

 

I can't conclusively say whether curcumin will actually raise or lower histamine, but this study isn't enough evidence because it is confined to a very small region in a rat small intestine...it's VERY difficult to translate this to human variants PLUS its inhibitory activity on IL-5 and other enzymes contradicts this effect or at the least would be minimize any aggregatory effects on allergies or irritation responses.

 

 

Do you know/understand the extent to which curcumin inhibits DAO (http://www.ncbi.nlm....bmed/20885979)?  I've been taking Longvida curcumin for a while and at first it decreased anxiety and improved mood.  However, the last week or two I get very "itchy" all over my torso and my anxiety/brain fog seems a little worse about an hour after taking it.  I've also noticed that I have been waking up with very watery, itchy eyes in the morning and my allergies seem to be worse (runny nose, constant throat clearing, etc.).  I'm wondering if curcumin inhibiting DAO could possibly be increasing my histamine levels too much (especially when using a curcumin supplement with a very high bio-availability).  Any info you have on this possible connection would be greatly appreciated.  

 

 

Thank you for the response.  I noticed it before reading the study.  I was actually trying to find the cause of the problem and came across mention of it possibly inhibiting DAO (figured it might be a long shot though).  Also, I've noticed it was much more pronounced with the curcumin BCM-95 extract (which was way too stimulating and I had to stop due to sleep issues).  It could be another supplement (although curcumin seems to be the only thing I've taken consistently when the issues occurs) or just a coincidence in timing and maybe my allergies are just much worse this year.  Either way, when I saw this thread I figured I'd pick the brain of someone that's obviously very knowledgeable.  

[Area-1255]

No problem, yeah I wouldn't worry about that part of it.

I will say this though, men should be careful with curcumin extracts because of the phytoestrogenic properties, and if you have a history of estrogen related issues, are obese or have used anabolic steroids in the past....tread carefully and stick with lower doses of curcumin products.

 

ANY time I take curcumin, I ALWAYS take it with an aromatase inhibitor as I find curcumin at higher doses has clomid like effects on my mood, it makes me very irritable and causes me to feel like my body is overheating. 

Thank you for the response.  I noticed it before reading the study.  I was actually trying to find the cause of the problem and came across mention of it possibly inhibiting DAO (figured it might be a long shot though).  Also, I've noticed it was much more pronounced with the curcumin BCM-95 extract (which was way too stimulating and I had to stop due to sleep issues).  It could be another supplement (although curcumin seems to be the only thing I've taken consistently when the issues occurs) or just a coincidence in timing and maybe my allergies are just much worse this year.  Either way, when I saw this thread I figured I'd pick the brain of someone that's obviously very knowledgeable.  

 

Edited by Area-1255, 04 May 2015 - 02:41 PM.

[stan08]

 

No problem, yeah I wouldn't worry about that part of it.

I will say this though, men should be careful with curcumin extracts because of the phytoestrogenic properties, and if you have a history of estrogen related issues, are obese or have used anabolic steroids in the past....tread carefully and stick with lower doses of curcumin products.

 

ANY time I take curcumin, I ALWAYS take it with an aromatase inhibitor as I find curcumin at higher doses has clomid like effects on my mood, it makes me very irritable and causes me to feel like my body is overheating. 

Thank you for the response.  I noticed it before reading the study.  I was actually trying to find the cause of the problem and came across mention of it possibly inhibiting DAO (figured it might be a long shot though).  Also, I've noticed it was much more pronounced with the curcumin BCM-95 extract (which was way too stimulating and I had to stop due to sleep issues).  It could be another supplement (although curcumin seems to be the only thing I've taken consistently when the issues occurs) or just a coincidence in timing and maybe my allergies are just much worse this year.  Either way, when I saw this thread I figured I'd pick the brain of someone that's obviously very knowledgeable.  

 

 

Funny you should mention that, I'd also been feeling really overheated and irritable (with bad tinnitus starting up too).  However, I thought those effects were due to the ashwagandha I had started two or three weeks ago (the irritability seemed to be more pronounced when I added it to the curcumin...even though the mental clarity effects were great).  So, I dropped ashwagandha as of this morning. You've definitely given me some things to think about.  Thank you.

[Area-1255]

Yeah I doubt ashwagandha would make you feel warm, as it's generally considered "a cooling herb". Although, it's effects on serotonin receptors / expression might appear to be in contrast to that reference. I guess it really just depends on how YOU respond, never assume anything..always know your body and don't compare results excessively..we all have different diets, cultures, personna's ...etc

 

 

No problem, yeah I wouldn't worry about that part of it.

I will say this though, men should be careful with curcumin extracts because of the phytoestrogenic properties, and if you have a history of estrogen related issues, are obese or have used anabolic steroids in the past....tread carefully and stick with lower doses of curcumin products.

 

ANY time I take curcumin, I ALWAYS take it with an aromatase inhibitor as I find curcumin at higher doses has clomid like effects on my mood, it makes me very irritable and causes me to feel like my body is overheating. 

Thank you for the response.  I noticed it before reading the study.  I was actually trying to find the cause of the problem and came across mention of it possibly inhibiting DAO (figured it might be a long shot though).  Also, I've noticed it was much more pronounced with the curcumin BCM-95 extract (which was way too stimulating and I had to stop due to sleep issues).  It could be another supplement (although curcumin seems to be the only thing I've taken consistently when the issues occurs) or just a coincidence in timing and maybe my allergies are just much worse this year.  Either way, when I saw this thread I figured I'd pick the brain of someone that's obviously very knowledgeable.  

 

 

Funny you should mention that, I'd also been feeling really overheated and irritable (with bad tinnitus starting up too).  However, I thought those effects were due to the ashwagandha I had started two or three weeks ago (the irritability seemed to be more pronounced when I added it to the curcumin...even though the mental clarity effects were great).  So, I dropped ashwagandha as of this morning. You've definitely given me some things to think about.  Thank you.

 

 

Edited by Area-1255, 05 May 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[stan08]

Yeah I doubt ashwagandha would make you feel warm, as it's generally considered "a cooling herb". Although, it's effects on serotonin receptors / expression might appear to be in contrast to that reference. I guess it really just depends on how YOU respond, never assume anything..always know your body and don't compare results excessively..we all have different diets, cultures, personna's ...etc

No problem, yeah I wouldn't worry about that part of it.
I will say this though, men should be careful with curcumin extracts because of the phytoestrogenic properties, and if you have a history of estrogen related issues, are obese or have used anabolic steroids in the past....tread carefully and stick with lower doses of curcumin products.

ANY time I take curcumin, I ALWAYS take it with an aromatase inhibitor as I find curcumin at higher doses has clomid like effects on my mood, it makes me very irritable and causes me to feel like my body is overheating.

Thank you for the response. I noticed it before reading the study. I was actually trying to find the cause of the problem and came across mention of it possibly inhibiting DAO (figured it might be a long shot though). Also, I've noticed it was much more pronounced with the curcumin BCM-95 extract (which was way too stimulating and I had to stop due to sleep issues). It could be another supplement (although curcumin seems to be the only thing I've taken consistently when the issues occurs) or just a coincidence in timing and maybe my allergies are just much worse this year. Either way, when I saw this thread I figured I'd pick the brain of someone that's obviously very knowledgeable.

Funny you should mention that, I'd also been feeling really overheated and irritable (with bad tinnitus starting up too). However, I thought those effects were due to the ashwagandha I had started two or three weeks ago (the irritability seemed to be more pronounced when I added it to the curcumin...even though the mental clarity effects were great). So, I dropped ashwagandha as of this morning. You've definitely given me some things to think about. Thank you.

Thank you. I have started to wonder if maybe all my negative sides were due to taking too many things at once that affect serotonin (silexan, ashwagandha and curcumin). I'm going to slow down/start over and just try one thing at a time (in the aforementioned order).

[Area-1255]

Thank you. I have started to wonder if maybe all my negative sides were due to taking too many things at once that affect serotonin (silexan, ashwagandha and curcumin). I'm going to slow down/start over and just try one thing at a time (in the aforementioned order).

Yes, there's a lot of negative side-effects of elevated serotonin.

http://www.longecity...-to-read-cited/

 

Signs and Symptoms of High/Elevated Serotonin

Edited by Area-1255, 05 May 2015 - 08:13 PM.

[Area-1255]

H3 activation inhibits serotonin in other areas though, as does H2 and H1...but all through different mechanisms. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....2483387/#bib107

[Blackkzeus]

What effect does methylfolate have on histamine?

[Area-1255]

What effect does methylfolate have on histamine?

High doses and low doses will increase histamine elimination, and the methyl group serves that purpose. However, prolonged exposure or intake of ANY form of folate, in conjunction with other copper excreting nutrients..such as Zinc, Vitamin C , Managanese - may actually increase histamine and decrease breakdown/degradation.

[Yunasa]

so should i take methylfolate or regular folate, area?

[Area-1255]

so should i take methylfolate or regular folate, area?

If you are trying to lower histamine, take methyl folate, if you are trying to raise histamine, take regular folate with b12 and also buy niacin and Zinc.

[ceridwen]

My tests said I have low normal histamine levels with extremely high copper levels. However my Dr has prescribed methyl group vitamins for me to take and 30mg of zinc daily. Is this a contradiction? Am I being advised properly?

[Area-1255]

My tests said I have low normal histamine levels with extremely high copper levels. However my Dr has prescribed methyl group vitamins for me to take and 30mg of zinc daily. Is this a contradiction? Am I being advised properly?

Methyl folate is commonly given because of it's superior bioavailability, but you need to definitely use some degree of manganese as well as b12 multiple times a day..you also should be eating more protein, including chicken and eggs...and you should most definitely take hollarhena antidysenterica extract or buy pitolisant or another histamine H3 blocker; which by autoreceptor blockade, you enhance histamine release as well as GABA, dopamine etc

Edited by Area-1255, 10 May 2015 - 07:36 PM.

[Blackkzeus]

 

My tests said I have low normal histamine levels with extremely high copper levels. However my Dr has prescribed methyl group vitamins for me to take and 30mg of zinc daily. Is this a contradiction? Am I being advised properly?

Methyl folate is commonly given because of it's superior bioavailability, but you need to definitely use some degree of manganese as well as b12 multiple times a day..you also should be eating more protein, including chicken and eggs...and you should most definitely take hollarhena antidysenterica extract or buy pitolisant or another histamine H3 blocker; which by autoreceptor blockade, you enhance histamine release as well as GABA, dopamine etc

 

 

In your post before this one you said methyl folate is used to lower histamine levels but now you're saying it can raise histamine levels. Does it raise it or lower it? 

[SerP3nT]

sooo. does this all mean that if you take connessine or w/e you have to stay awake for 72 hours ???

[Area-1255]

I said it can increase histamine elimination, that means it can increase the breakdown of histamine..but ANY form of folate will ALSO increase copper excretion and act as a direct copper antagonist - which means TECHNICALLY, any form could, be merit of that property, cause histamine release..but, you should stick to the original/regular 'ol folate as an insurance policy!

 

 

My tests said I have low normal histamine levels with extremely high copper levels. However my Dr has prescribed methyl group vitamins for me to take and 30mg of zinc daily. Is this a contradiction? Am I being advised properly?

Methyl folate is commonly given because of it's superior bioavailability, but you need to definitely use some degree of manganese as well as b12 multiple times a day..you also should be eating more protein, including chicken and eggs...and you should most definitely take hollarhena antidysenterica extract or buy pitolisant or another histamine H3 blocker; which by autoreceptor blockade, you enhance histamine release as well as GABA, dopamine etc

 

 

In your post before this one you said methyl folate is used to lower histamine levels but now you're saying it can raise histamine levels. Does it raise it or lower it?