112 replies to this topic

[eon]

did you happen to abuse antibiotics at some point in your life?

[StevesPetRat]

I even had an extreme reaction to aspirin which I was originally confident would provide a little bit of relief.

Ah. You may need to eliminate salicylates from your diet, soaps, skin care products, etc. Epsom baths can provide the sulfate needed for that phase 2 liver detoxification pathway.

P.S. I had every single one of those symptoms. Every one. They're not all gone, but they have improved.

Edited by StevesPetRat, 28 September 2014 - 06:43 PM.

[erraticpattern]

did you happen to abuse antibiotics at some point in your life?

 

I've only used antibiotics two or three times in my life, and all of those instances were when I was a little kid.

[erraticpattern]

 

I even had an extreme reaction to aspirin which I was originally confident would provide a little bit of relief.

Ah. You may need to eliminate salicylates from your diet, soaps, skin care products, etc. Epsom baths can provide the sulfate needed for that phase 2 liver detoxification pathway.

P.S. I had every single one of those symptoms. Every one. They're not all gone, but they have improved.

 

 

Were you reduced to this level of suffering?

[krillin]

did you happen to abuse antibiotics at some point in your life?

 

Cymbalta gave me a comparatively mild version of what he got, and it felt like a super-intense version of DHEA, so I think he has the cause nailed down.

[eon]

And OP is so sure DHEA and preg caused all his symptoms? To OP, the first time I ever had a panic attack I really thought I was losing my mind, thought I was having a heart attack as well. It's part of the symptoms. This was in my late teens, I am now in my early 30's. I was under stress when it all happened, without being on any meds or supplements. I'm assuming you were in a lot of stress but somehow DHEA and preg may have been blamed for your symptoms to show since it happened at about the time you took them, maybe has nothing to do with the drugs you took but you were ready to "lose it" to begin with. Maybe you took it thinking it will lower your stress but it was already at its peak? I don't know what your situation was. In high school I was a gym rat and full of energy and only slept 2 to 3 hour days on school days and made up on sleep during weekends with 12 hour sleeps sometimes 14 hour sleeps. Looking back now that lifestyle put a strain on my health and I "exploded" right after high school as if it had been building up. I'm not alone, lots of teens are like this; slept few hours, mind always running, etc. The pressure of society and being a teenager can take a toll on a person. College was no better, it's technically 13th grade. Time heals. 

[eon]

panic attacks can trigger those symptoms. There was a time when my panic attack was induced just by the idea of taking a panic attack medication thinking it will kill me. A knock at the door by the mailman could trigger symptoms as well. Pregnenolone is supposed to be very safe considering 500mg is taken for arthritis (as it was the original intended use).

 

 

I even had an extreme reaction to aspirin which I was originally confident would provide a little bit of relief.

Ah. You may need to eliminate salicylates from your diet, soaps, skin care products, etc. Epsom baths can provide the sulfate needed for that phase 2 liver detoxification pathway.

P.S. I had every single one of those symptoms. Every one. They're not all gone, but they have improved.

 

 

[erraticpattern]

eon, you are so far off base on this that I don't even know where to begin.

If it's not you challenging the idea of a doctor prescribing OTC medications, it's something else equally strange.

I'm not going to repeat myself ad nauseam, so I'm going to settle for now with saying that you are completely off base on this. You are looking for every possible explanation to avoid believing that it could have been the result of pregnenolone and/or DHEA in spite of the strong correlation and evidence to suggest that that's exactly what it was, even going far enough to inquire about recreational drug use or antibiotic abuse at some point in my life.

Panic attacks are not the cause of all this. They are not even a relatively frequent occurrence, nor were they the first symptoms to arise, nor are they even close to being the most significant symptom. I've had less than 10 of them in the entire six month history of this, and each one happened completely out of the blue with no external trigger. I was also not under significant stress prior to this. I had just gotten engaged to the love of my life, my company had achieved it's greatest quarter of financial success yet and was rapidly growing after already being extremely successful, and my scientific research was producing extremely promising results. If anything, I was on top of the world and as happy as I'd ever been.

No, I did not take pregnenolone and DHEA because I was stressed and thought they would calm me down. To repeat myself yet again, MY DOCTOR PRESCRIBED THEM TO ME. THAT is the ONLY reason I took them, and symptoms began AFTER MY FIRST DOSE.

Edited by erraticpattern, 29 September 2014 - 08:08 AM.

[UniqueNewYork]

I keep suspecting blood glucose and/or adrenal dysfunction. Some people on here have mentioned a cortisol connection and it's very likely. It could also be as simple as blood glucose which causes similar symptoms. Check blood glucose levels first.

I know you're super sensitive and don't want to experiment with anything you don't have to. That's why I'd pick the safest most natural remedies available. Above all don't create any imbalances. If you use minerals, keep a balance. Electrolytes are very important to always keep in balance. Although just a little more magnesium doesn't usually hurt anyone.

If you're going to take L-theanine, take it as green tea extract just to get a more rounded profile. Make sure diet is in order. Stay away from starches and processed foods. Lower sugar and caffeine intake and eat whole foods. Eat a diet of primarily vegetables and fruit with a bit of meat here and there. Much easier on digestion to help strengthen the body. Hydrate. I know it sounds like some stale and obvious advice but it's really, really important to remember to do this.

I'll reiterate the whey protein to increases glutathione and the probiotics. None of the things I mentioned will stress the system and above all won't cause you any mental stress to take them.

Look at the adrenals, glucose, electrolytes and strengthen the gut. That's where you want to start the healing process.

I hope you're currently under the care of a doctor or two or are able to get some blood panels done. At least a CMP.

[erraticpattern]

In the interest of avoiding traversal of the same metaphorical flowchart that nearly twenty different doctors have already been down with me, I need to make it crystal clear that all of the more obvious medical causes of all of this have already been ruled out. On a near-monthly basis, I've had extremely comprehensive bloodwork evaluating my adrenal function, pancreatic function, kidney function, liver function, thyroid function, and everything else one is likely to think of here. My blood glucose is actually fantastic, and, so far, no amount of medical imaging or bloodwork has been able to provide any clues as to what is happening to me.

With that said, receptor-level dysfunction did not become the primary suspicion without first exhausting the investigation of other possibilities. Additionally, I am not the only one who has reacted this way to pregnenolone and or DHEA. I've compiled a list of numerous accounts of others who experienced the same things that I did. Dr. Ray Sahelian's site also has a tremendous amount of testimonials of the negative side effects from both pregnenolone and DHEA.

[UniqueNewYork]

If you've had extensive testing already, that's good news. With the obvious things having been ruled out, and all systems otherwise normal, you're more or less left with three causes. = Toxins, bacteria or virus.

 

Any dental issues when this began?

How is sleep?

You mentioned gut problems just before this or around the time it started?

 

You should continue to get as many blood panels as you can as somebody's bound to spot something eventually. This kind of thing can't go completely unnoticed, you just haven't had the right tests yet.

 

In the meantime, I'd protect the body by correcting any gastrointestinal problems. If the problem originated there then you might also see a turn around. However it can take weeks or months to see it. Keep breaking down nutrients and exercise to get those lysosomes working for you and get rid of toxic load. Keep cycling things the best you can.

Do some hydrotherapy or sauna. Take an epsom salt bath for magnesium. There's only limited evidence these work but as everyone knows, that doesn't mean they don't. Eat coconut oil like it's chocolate. Take in efficient fuel. Then restorative sleep is crucial. If you're helping the cells it'll be easier for the body to help you.

 

At this point you don't want to further alter the body's natural mechanisms. I get that. So do the natural stuff, paleo-type diet included.

 

 

Edited by UniqueNewYork, 29 September 2014 - 10:00 PM.

[UniqueNewYork]

Here's a list that's easy to look at and it helped me tremendously after 8 weeks:

 

Probiotics ( ! )

whey protein

chicken stock

coconut oil

green tea extract

100 mg magnesium ( 4x a week )

25-50 mg niacin ( 4x a week )

vitamin c

zinc 20mg ( 3x a week )

gamma-e with tocotrienols

omega 3

b complex with inositol

more raw foods

exercise

complete amino acid

 

 

[erraticpattern]

If you've had extensive testing already, that's good news. With the obvious things having been ruled out, and all systems otherwise normal, you're more or less left with three causes. = Toxins, bacteria or virus.

 

Any dental issues when this began?

How is sleep?

You mentioned gut problems just before this or around the time it started?

 

You should continue to get as many blood panels as you can as somebody's bound to spot something eventually. This kind of thing can't go completely unnoticed, you just haven't had the right tests yet.

 

In the meantime, I'd protect the body by correcting any gastrointestinal problems. If the problem originated there then you might also see a turn around. However it can take weeks or months to see it. Keep breaking down nutrients and exercise to get those lysosomes working for you and get rid of toxic load. Keep cycling things the best you can.

Do some hydrotherapy or sauna. Take an epsom salt bath for magnesium. There's only limited evidence these work but as everyone knows, that doesn't mean they don't. Eat coconut oil like it's chocolate. Take in efficient fuel. Then restorative sleep is crucial. If you're helping the cells it'll be easier for the body to help you.

 

At this point you don't want to further alter the body's natural mechanisms. I get that. So do the natural stuff, paleo-type diet included.

 

A spinal tap as well as numerous exhaustive bloodwork panels have pretty much ruled out bacterial/viral infections and heavy metal poisoning as the cause. The first option, "toxins", specifically in the form of pregnenolone and/or DHEA and/or their metabolic derivatives, is the most likely cause and, even then, that doesn't mean these toxins are still present and circulating.

 

No dental issues.

Sleep is atrocious.

Gut problems consistent with receptor-level neural dysregulation have been on and off.

 

I'm continuing to see different specialists to find someone with answers but, unfortunately and as anyone who has studied protracted reactions to fluoroquinolones and/or benzo/SSRI medications knows, these things absolutely can go completely unnoticed and no medical testing currently available is capable of spotting the physiological changes that result from the poisoning. Medical testing remains useless for problems of this nature. Even various prion diseases [note: a fascinating subject for those interested in proteomics] are completely undetectable by all current medical tests.

 

Coconut oil has been a staple of mine for years. Paleo dieting is the way that I eat and have eaten for quite a long time.

 

And thanks for the list. I'm already taking all of those things with the exception of niacin, gamma-e, and inositol. I've heard a lot of good things about niacin and inositol elsewhere and am interested in trying them, and it's good to see someone else here who recommends them.

Edited by erraticpattern, 29 September 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[niner]

If you've had extensive testing already, that's good news. With the obvious things having been ruled out, and all systems otherwise normal, you're more or less left with three causes. = Toxins, bacteria or virus.

 

Why do you rule out a very bad reaction to pregnenolone / DHEA?

[UniqueNewYork]

I didn't elaborate, which I hoped I didn't have to but I had similar symptoms 10 years ago. I took dhea combined with niacin. It was more or less a mistake. Forgot I'd taken the niacin 2 hours prior. The symptoms were immediate and intense. Felt like I was in a wavy tunnel for an entire evening. It was strange but kind of cool too. After, I found my disposition to be more relaxed in general. More than enough gaba all the time. This lasted for years afterwards. However I developed other insidious symptoms. Mainly muscular pain and tremor. It seemed concentrated in the cerebellum. It affected my gait, coordination, blood pressure, sleep patterns, muscles, spine, memory and more. Both these episodes were incredibly similar to yours. I actually thought I had MS at the time or parkinson's. Had an MRI and a battery of tests and nothing was found. Both episodes had a gastrointestinal component to them as well. I later developed what was very much like ankylosing spondylitis. Took me 10 minutes to get out of bed by rolling onto the floor, moving until the pain subsided and for the rest of the day after I was completely fine until the next morning. ( No, it wasn't a bad mattress! ). This lasted for approx 6 months and was the last symptom to disappear. All that was noted clnically was a very slight increase in rheumatoid factor. Around this time I also developed recurring pseudogout. It came on like clockwork every six to eight months.

 

I changed my diet, made and ate chicken stock on a daily basis that I had seen referred to by someone else with idiopathic neurological dysfunction. They linked it to CFS/FM and epstein-barr and the method was reducing cytokines and rebalancing the immune system. I'm not sure about any of it but I followed the advice and slowly got better over a year and a half.  I drank whey protein daily for months. Stayed away from processed foods. I was more or less cured but never 100%. I was usually 80% and sometimes felt 100%.

 

I eventually went off that regimen and a couple of years ago and saw some new symptoms. It had been so long that I had forgotten what I had used to get better. Also, I may have just recovered on my own anyway. I couldn't be sure. I had to go back and piece together what I'd done before and repeat it. The new symptoms were mainly gut issues with arthritic pains and inflammation of muscles, tendons and ligaments. Very sporadic, sometimes incredibly intense. Many times completely absent as well. Then late last year a couple of seizure-like episodes and classic migraine with vision problems. Watery diarrhea with back and chest pains. Then in April major psychological event. I suspected chronic low level inflammation from the beginning of all this. Eventually it just went to my brain. It was like having a brain tumor when it hit. My brain simply could not function at all. Seizures and deja-vu. Mind warping. Strangely, I had no prior problems mentally, just occasional mild anxiety and some o.c.d. Nothing to really be treated for.

 

Anyway, I've listed what I did to recover from April til now and I'm also borrowing some of the treatments from prior illness. I'm still trying to get a diagnosis 10 years later. I do have chronic low level inflammation of the cervical and thoracic spine. What I have discovered is I can get better if I do certain things. I had gut problems way before any of this and have suspected this to be a very big feature and still do. Hence the obsession with the probiotics. Someone mentioned colostrum on here which I've never tried but I might try as well. Chronic inflammation. Cause? I do not yet know. Prion disease? Maybe, though I doubt it. Especially in your case because of age of onset.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by UniqueNewYork, 30 September 2014 - 02:01 AM.

[eon]

Not sure how symptoms could last for years due to pregnenolone and DHEA, I thought these leave the body at some point? They are water soluble last time I checked. The mention of inositol for possible remedy might make sense since I think it drives out toxins?

 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Pregnenolone

 

"Pregnenolone and its sulfate, like DHEA and its sulfate and progesterone, belong to the group of neurosteroids that are found in high concentrations in certain areas of the brain, and are synthesized there. Neurosteroids affect synaptic functioning, are neuroprotective, and enhance myelinization. Pregnenolone and its sulfate ester are under investigation for their potential to improve cognitive and memory functioning.^[3] Pregnenolone is also being considered as a potential treatment for schizophrenia.^[1]

 

Interestingly, unlike pregnenolone, pregnenolone sulfate is a negative allosteric modulator of the GABA_A receptor^[4] as well as a positive allosteric modulator of the NMDA receptor.^[5][6] In addition, it has been shown to activate the transient receptor potential M3 (TRPM3) ion channel in hepatocytes and pancreatic islets causing calcium entry and subsequent insulin release."

 

Regarding the second paragraph is it saying preg sulfate is bad? Last time I checked it is the widely available pregnenolone.

Edited by eon, 30 September 2014 - 06:07 AM.

[erraticpattern]

Not sure how symptoms could last for years due to pregnenolone and DHEA, I thought these leave the body at some point? They are water soluble last time I checked. The mention of inositol for possible remedy might make sense since I think it drives out toxins?

 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Pregnenolone

 

"Pregnenolone and its sulfate, like DHEA and its sulfate and progesterone, belong to the group of neurosteroids that are found in high concentrations in certain areas of the brain, and are synthesized there. Neurosteroids affect synaptic functioning, are neuroprotective, and enhance myelinization. Pregnenolone and its sulfate ester are under investigation for their potential to improve cognitive and memory functioning.^[3] Pregnenolone is also being considered as a potential treatment for schizophrenia.^[1]

 

Interestingly, unlike pregnenolone, pregnenolone sulfate is a negative allosteric modulator of the GABA_A receptor^[4] as well as a positive allosteric modulator of the NMDA receptor.^[5][6] In addition, it has been shown to activate the transient receptor potential M3 (TRPM3) ion channel in hepatocytes and pancreatic islets causing calcium entry and subsequent insulin release."

 

Regarding the second paragraph is it saying preg sulfate is bad? Last time I checked it is the widely available pregnenolone.

 

Well, pregnenolone MLM is fat-soluble but, even so, I don't think that either of them are still in my body.

And yes, pregnenolone sulfate is a very well-known excitotoxin.

 

Pregnenolone in neuropsychiatry

"It appears that at very low doses pregnenolone is anxiolytic, whereas at higher doses it is anxiogenic (excitatory). It may be that the mechanisms for converting pregnenolone (via progesterone) to anxiolytic pregnanes is saturable at low levels of pregnenolone exposure, such that when a low dose (with minimal primary excitatory activity) is used the anxiolytic activity prevails. When large doses of pregnenolone are used, however, the excitatory activity would overwhelm the anxiolytic activity — which, again, would be limited by the already-saturated pregnane biosynthetic pathway. This is at present merely a speculation, but it is consistent with the available facts."

http://home.provide....ln/AELP_S08.HTM

 

Pregnenolone alters the NMDA receptor

http://m.jneurosci.o...4/46/10318.full

 

Pregnenolone sulfate modulates NMDA receptors, inducing and potentiating acute excitotoxicity in isolated retina.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9856862

 

Pregnenolone sulfate exacerbates NMDA-induced death of hippocampal neurons"

http://www.sciencedi...006899398006404

 

Pregnenolone sulfate potentiates the effects of NMDA on hippocampal alanine and dopamine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15301935

 

Excitotoxicity of both Preg and DHEA

http://books.google....oxicity&f=false

 

Chronic pregnenolone effects in normal humans: attenuation of benzodiazepine-induced sedation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14749094

 

Pregnenolone inhibits GABA currents while enhanching NMDA currents, shifting the balance towards an excited neuronal state

http://books.google....hdrawal&f=false

 

Convulsant actions of the neurosteroid pregnenolone sulfate in mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10411990

 

Neurosteroid pregnenolone induces sleep-EEG changes in man compatible with inverse agonistic GABAA-receptor modulation.

"We conclude that P acts in a non-genomic fashion at or in the vicinity of the benzodiazepine binding site, modulating allosterically the GABAA receptor like a partial inverse."

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/8395958/

 

3beta-hydroxypregnane steroids are pregnenolone sulfate-like GABA(A) receptor antagonists. 

“...we have shown that sulfated steroids can reverse the actions of GABAA receptor-potentiating steroids and the actions of other GABAA-potentiating drugs, such as barbiturates”

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/11978813\

 

Pregnenolone sulfate modulates inhibitory synaptic transmission by enhancing GABA(A) receptor desensitization.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10804198

Edited by erraticpattern, 30 September 2014 - 07:21 AM.

[eon]

Those are some great links I have yet to read, if the info. is there then there should be a way to counter what happened to you just by taking another remedy.

 

After about 3 weeks on Dr. Vita pregnenolone (sulfate?) I stopped due to starting a probiotic supplement. Just today I felt a bit off. I won't blame preg for it yet. I haven't been on it since about close to a month now. I have experience with anxiety, depression and panic attacks so I was aware of what was happening to me. I didn't use DHEA with preg though although I have taken it in the past by itself.

 

Today I took red panax ginseng, niacinamide, pantothenic acid, 3 g vitamin C, probiotic and drank green tea with xylitol almost all at the same time, not sure if that caused my heart to get fast and my mind seemed speedy. about a few hours after I took those combo. I would say about 5 hours had passed but that weird feeling just showed up. Maybe being conscious about the whole situation that you went through made me nervous since I've taken preg as well, but not with a DHEA combo. I hope I'll be fine. My steady dose of B vitamins and high dose of vitamin C may have helped while on preg. Not to mentioned my use of probiotic immediately after using preg. I was simply experimenting then and didn't want to mix up a whole lot of things.

 

I find it amazing some people actually feel great when on preg. Same can go with arginine. I felt weird when on arginine so I dumped almost a kilogram of bulk powder. I wonder if the racetams could reverse what you went through?

 

I have a newly formed wisdom teeth, not sure if this is relevant to the whole situation but someone here mentioned if you have any dental issues.

Edited by eon, 30 September 2014 - 08:25 AM.

[erraticpattern]

You'll probably be fine, eon. Keep in mind I had a reaction to the pregnenolone and DHEA after the very first dose, and things never let up after that and only continued to deteriorate. There was absolutely no question that something big was going on in my brain and nervous system, but I was led to believe that it's all a good sign that the drugs are doing their job by optimizing thyroid hormones, cortisol, etc.

If you've been on pregnenolone and haven't noticed things going completely awry after dosing, you probably react like most people do (which is either positively or neutrally).

[erraticpattern]

I didn't elaborate, which I hoped I didn't have to but I had similar symptoms 10 years ago. I took dhea combined with niacin. It was more or less a mistake. Forgot I'd taken the niacin 2 hours prior. The symptoms were immediate and intense. Felt like I was in a wavy tunnel for an entire evening. It was strange but kind of cool too. After, I found my disposition to be more relaxed in general. More than enough gaba all the time. This lasted for years afterwards. However I developed other insidious symptoms. Mainly muscular pain and tremor. It seemed concentrated in the cerebellum. It affected my gait, coordination, blood pressure, sleep patterns, muscles, spine, memory and more. Both these episodes were incredibly similar to yours. I actually thought I had MS at the time or parkinson's. Had an MRI and a battery of tests and nothing was found. Both episodes had a gastrointestinal component to them as well. I later developed what was very much like ankylosing spondylitis. Took me 10 minutes to get out of bed by rolling onto the floor, moving until the pain subsided and for the rest of the day after I was completely fine until the next morning. ( No, it wasn't a bad mattress! ). This lasted for approx 6 months and was the last symptom to disappear. All that was noted clnically was a very slight increase in rheumatoid factor. Around this time I also developed recurring pseudogout. It came on like clockwork every six to eight months.

 

I changed my diet, made and ate chicken stock on a daily basis that I had seen referred to by someone else with idiopathic neurological dysfunction. They linked it to CFS/FM and epstein-barr and the method was reducing cytokines and rebalancing the immune system. I'm not sure about any of it but I followed the advice and slowly got better over a year and a half.  I drank whey protein daily for months. Stayed away from processed foods. I was more or less cured but never 100%. I was usually 80% and sometimes felt 100%.

 

I eventually went off that regimen and a couple of years ago and saw some new symptoms. It had been so long that I had forgotten what I had used to get better. Also, I may have just recovered on my own anyway. I couldn't be sure. I had to go back and piece together what I'd done before and repeat it. The new symptoms were mainly gut issues with arthritic pains and inflammation of muscles, tendons and ligaments. Very sporadic, sometimes incredibly intense. Many times completely absent as well. Then late last year a couple of seizure-like episodes and classic migraine with vision problems. Watery diarrhea with back and chest pains. Then in April major psychological event. I suspected chronic low level inflammation from the beginning of all this. Eventually it just went to my brain. It was like having a brain tumor when it hit. My brain simply could not function at all. Seizures and deja-vu. Mind warping. Strangely, I had no prior problems mentally, just occasional mild anxiety and some o.c.d. Nothing to really be treated for.

 

Anyway, I've listed what I did to recover from April til now and I'm also borrowing some of the treatments from prior illness. I'm still trying to get a diagnosis 10 years later. I do have chronic low level inflammation of the cervical and thoracic spine. What I have discovered is I can get better if I do certain things. I had gut problems way before any of this and have suspected this to be a very big feature and still do. Hence the obsession with the probiotics. Someone mentioned colostrum on here which I've never tried but I might try as well. Chronic inflammation. Cause? I do not yet know. Prion disease? Maybe, though I doubt it. Especially in your case because of age of onset.

 

I'm more than willing to try anything that doesn't scare me off, regardless of whether or not I would have taken the treatment seriously before all of this. What's become crystal clear to me is that the mainstream medical community is completely and utterly clueless on this and is completely without the ability to offer me any kind of help on this at all (aside from prescribing benzos or SSRIs to treat the symptoms, which is all that anybody has tried to do so far).

 

I'm shocked that this all seem to have begun for you after a single dosing of DHEA. Fascinating.

I'm glad to hear you think things are starting to turn a corner for you, though. I truly hope your signs of healing last permanently.

[sthira]

These are chilling reminders that all of us are individuals, and we may react adversely to seemingly benign substances. It's unfortunate that your medical team has failed you so harshly. I've no advice beyond what you already know: don't do that shit again. Eventually I think your body will return to good health if you stay persistent with behaviors you know: eat well, exercise, do your best to stay actively clean. Do you foresee ever being able to return to your phd studies?

[UniqueNewYork]

I forgot one very important ingredient that I believe may have helped alot. Turmeric or curcumin. Ginger can substitute. I think this really helped control inflammation. Could be stressful on the liver or kidneys in large amounts taken over many months but taken in moderation is fine. I took a teaspoonful every day for about a month. I noticed a marked change after a day or two. I took this at first but stopped after dosing with the probiotics because of it's potential as a bactericidal. Later I switched every few days between curcumin and and probiotics just to be safe. I did this for 2 weeks. Later, just the probiotics with prebiotics like green bananas, cocoa and chicory. Still on this regimen.

 

 

BTW eon, I get an adrenaline like rush from taking even small amounts of L-arginine. The vasodilation effect is too strong. I experience an elevated heart rate with arrhythmia. It has been shown to be beneficial in combination with Lysine for anxiety however. Could be better for some than others.

 

As far as the dental issues I was concerned with bacterial load, antibiotics and mercury exposure.

 

I had four new wisdom teeth show up at the age of 39. They were extras and on the smaller side. Some dentist took them out. I probably shouldn't have agreed to go through with it. I feel I got talked into it and it was completely unnecessary to remove them. You don't agree to dental surgery so lightly. I wouldn't do it again.

Edited by UniqueNewYork, 01 October 2014 - 03:07 AM.

[krillin]

Not sure how symptoms could last for years due to pregnenolone and DHEA, I thought these leave the body at some point? They are water soluble last time I checked.

 

According to Jay Goldstein's CFS theory, excessive NMDA stimulation can shift you into an unpleasant neural state that is self-perpetuating unless you do something about it. Martin Pall has a complementary set of biochemical vicious cycles that are also self-perpetuating after the stressor is gone.

[eon]

I've seen that NMDA word somewhere, so are you saying any drug that mentions it will have some effect on the NMDA whether positive or negative, would be something to look out for? I believe preg does affect NMDA in a positive way but who knows?

 

 

Not sure how symptoms could last for years due to pregnenolone and DHEA, I thought these leave the body at some point? They are water soluble last time I checked.

 

According to Jay Goldstein's CFS theory, excessive NMDA stimulation can shift you into an unpleasant neural state that is self-perpetuating unless you do something about it. Martin Pall has a complementary set of biochemical vicious cycles that are also self-perpetuating after the stressor is gone.

 

 

[eon]

Not sure if Hydergine could help out the OP. 

[krillin]

 

I've seen that NMDA word somewhere, so are you saying any drug that mentions it will have some effect on the NMDA whether positive or negative, would be something to look out for? I believe preg does affect NMDA in a positive way but who knows?

 

Pregnenolone and DHEA both increase NMDA receptor sensitivity as positive allosteric modulators. For negative effects of excessive NMDA activity, read Pall's and Goldstein's books. Here are some sites that give snippets.

 

Goldstein liked hydergine too, but as an ergot it has a risk of heart valve fibrosis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[StevesPetRat]

Were you reduced to this level of suffering?

What, is this a pissing contest? Yeah, that was me, more or less, for 15 hours a day for about a month, except I couldn't sit still and my family wanted to have me committed so I was on my own. Want to hear the recordings I made during that time? I would probably be in a looney bin right now if a friend in med school hadn't suggested that my symptoms sounded like B3 deficiency. Of course, that was just the first step.

Anyway, jeez, I was just trying to help. Unlike some people responding I actually believe your story. Sounds like you have any or all of excessive NMDA activation, GABA downregulation, and damage from excessive cortisol, due to the super-physiological doses the doctor had you on. All these features are seen in alcohol / benzo withdrawal as well.

One other thing that may help reset the HPA is NSI-189. Best of luck.

[erraticpattern]

These are chilling reminders that all of us are individuals, and we may react adversely to seemingly benign substances. It's unfortunate that your medical team has failed you so harshly. I've no advice beyond what you already know: don't do that shit again. Eventually I think your body will return to good health if you stay persistent with behaviors you know: eat well, exercise, do your best to stay actively clean. Do you foresee ever being able to return to your phd studies?

 

Honestly, I really can't say. As it stands, my intellect has been severely degraded; my ability to recognize extremely esoteric mathematical patterns and relationships and process the information in such a manner that actual conclusions can be derived from it is essentially gone. Without that ability, I have no means of completing my research project. I really don't know if it will ever come back. My brain fog and inability to process information in general right now really makes me question whether or not I'll ever be able to do what I was once actually very good at.

Truth be told, though, that's the least of my concerns. I could live well with less brainpower if I was just able escape the psychiatric torment, physical symptoms, and other non-intellect-related neurological dysfunctions.

 

 

Were you reduced to this level of suffering?

What, is this a pissing contest? Yeah, that was me, more or less, for 15 hours a day for about a month, except I couldn't sit still and my family wanted to have me committed so I was on my own. Want to hear the recordings I made during that time? I would probably be in a looney bin right now if a friend in med school hadn't suggested that my symptoms sounded like B3 deficiency. Of course, that was just the first step.

Anyway, jeez, I was just trying to help. Unlike some people responding I actually believe your story. Sounds like you have any or all of excessive NMDA activation, GABA downregulation, and damage from excessive cortisol, due to the super-physiological doses the doctor had you on. All these features are seen in alcohol / benzo withdrawal as well.

One other thing that may help reset the HPA is NSI-189. Best of luck.

 

 

You really misunderstood my intent with that question. I was not turning this into a "pissing contest" between you and I. I merely wanted to gain some sort of qualitative understanding of what you went through to know whether or not our cases are similar. I don't think anyone here views "level of suffering" as some kind of social currency to be flaunted. 

Regarding NSI-189, I also think it's an exciting drug. There's another member on here somewhere who's experimenting with it after going through a protracted benzo withdrawal syndrome.

Edited by erraticpattern, 02 October 2014 - 03:29 AM.

[eon]

and who sells NSI-189?

[eon]

I didn't know that about an ergot. I'd still want to try Hydergine, I have it but still hesitating.

 

 

 

I've seen that NMDA word somewhere, so are you saying any drug that mentions it will have some effect on the NMDA whether positive or negative, would be something to look out for? I believe preg does affect NMDA in a positive way but who knows?

 

Pregnenolone and DHEA both increase NMDA receptor sensitivity as positive allosteric modulators. For negative effects of excessive NMDA activity, read Pall's and Goldstein's books. Here are some sites that give snippets.

 

Goldstein liked hydergine too, but as an ergot it has a risk of heart valve fibrosis.