18 replies to this topic

[evolvedhuman2012]

i have  theories on this but not entire sure.  wondering if anyone encountered similar cases.

 

a while back, i always been using honey for energy boost later in the day and always been producing energizing result.

 

however later on, i encountered literature saying heating destroys nutrients and counter-productive so i tried unheated honey and that been making my stomach sick.  so i don't know whether it's bacteria/botulism or something else?

 

 

however, recently i tried putting it in heated water and letting it cool and then consume and found energizing effect and no stomach sickness detected.  so is there something bad in unheated honey these days?  so the heating way is what i'm sticking with.

 

and i'm talking about organic honey here.  and i heard about baddies in the practice of regular honey and contamination and so on so i changed course and steered clear of that .

 

and there are conflicting information on raw honey vs. pasteurized honey.

 

http://scienceline.u...ey.php?key=1307

 

http://www.livestron...-to-tea-coffee/

 

http://healthyeating...honey-5387.html

[niner]

Honey is mostly sugar.  I think looking at it as a source of "nutrients" is an error, unless the nutrient you're interested in is sugar.  Pasteurization kills microbes.  Some microbes are harmful to humans, others not.  Are you feeling lucky?

[evolvedhuman2012]

Honey is mostly sugar.  I think looking at it as a source of "nutrients" is an error, unless the nutrient you're interested in is sugar.  Pasteurization kills microbes.  Some microbes are harmful to humans, others not.  Are you feeling lucky?

 

wait a minute. are you saying honey has no health benefits? so sugar yes and no antioxidants?  and the benefits have been hyped up?

[Kalliste]

Topical applications of honey have some good evidence IIRC. I know some people who make it and they swear to god it's a miracle cure but I don't know about that.

[niner]

 

Honey is mostly sugar.  I think looking at it as a source of "nutrients" is an error, unless the nutrient you're interested in is sugar.  Pasteurization kills microbes.  Some microbes are harmful to humans, others not.  Are you feeling lucky?

 

wait a minute. are you saying honey has no health benefits? so sugar yes and no antioxidants?  and the benefits have been hyped up?

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say "no" health benefits, but the advantages have been hyped, and the disadvantages downplayed, at least in some quarters.

[xEva]

raw honey has mold spores and, with time, developing hyphae, which you can see under the microscope. i doubt bacteria can live in honey, but molds definitely do. the other things that can be found, perhaps irrelevant though, is viable pollen of various plants, and not necessarily just the flowers it was collected from (like i happened to see lotsa pine pollen). but the taste is best in raw honey, i think.

[Brett Black]

raw honey has mold spores and, with time, developing hyphae, which you can see under the microscope. i doubt bacteria can live in honey, but molds definitely do. the other things that can be found, perhaps irrelevant though, is viable pollen of various plants, and not necessarily just the flowers it was collected from (like i happened to see lotsa pine pollen). but the taste is best in raw honey, i think.

Clostridium botulinum bacteria (the cause of botulism) are known to be in some honeys and can be dangerous for infants and immunocompromised adults.

[evolvedhuman2012]

oh i see....

 

anyone here consume honey, how do you do it?

[timar]

Raw honey contains a multitude of enzymes such as invertase, amylase, catalase, glucose oxidase and acid phosphoriylase, organic acids produced by those enyzmes and a large variety of interesting and little researched phenolic and volatile compounds.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this chemical diversity of a natural whole-food makes a significant difference regarding its metabolic impact compared to refined sugar. That doesn't change the fact, though, that it is mostly a high GI sugar and should be used in moderation.

 

The potent anti-bacterial activity of some types of honey is probably a combination of its hygroscopic properties due to the high sugar content, the continuous release of hydrogen peroxide due to the action of the oxidase and some phenolic compounds derived from the plants the nectar originates from - or in the case or manuka honey, methylglyoxal (yes, that filthy AGE!) derived from dihydroxyaceton* in the manuka nectar.

 

*yes, that highly reactive sugar that is in your "anti-skin-aging" self-tanning lotion. Guess how it turns your skin brown... (oops!)

 

anyone here consume honey, how do you do it?

 

I like to add a bit of aromatic raw honey to yogurt or fruit salads. Or, occasionally, spread as a thin layer on a slice of whole grain bread.

 

Oh, and of course I use it for my favorite honey-mustard salad dressing:

 

2 parts white wine vinegar mixed with

1 part honey and

1 part mustard and

4 parts extra virgin olive oil,

salt and pepper to taste.

Edited by timar, 24 September 2014 - 11:07 PM.

[sthira]

The manuka honey is interesting, probably another gimmick, definitely expensive, and obviously pure high GI sugar. I doubt its pros outweigh its high sugar cons. Use it -- if at all -- in very tiny amounts.

[evolvedhuman2012]

i see.....interesting.....what do people think on the matter of royal jelly then? have not look much into that yet.  but i do beleive i heard that it make the bee queen live long ass hell long, well compared to ordinary worker bees anyways...

 

curious how that affect humans. heard very little study been done on the matter.

Edited by evolvedhuman2012, 25 September 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[sthira]

i see.....interesting.....what do people think on the matter of royal jelly then? have not look much into that yet. but i do beleive i heard that it make the bee queen live long ass hell long, well compared to ordinary worker bees anyways...

curious how that affect humans. heard very little study been done on the matter.

Royal jelly is delicious and healthy if you're a bee larva or wanna be bee queen. RJ 4 u? Buy the spinach with your hard-earned cash, and grab some more berries. Besides wasting your money and hopes, royal jelly may cause you an expensive allergic reaction. Or hives. Or -- ugh -- anaphylactic shock. Odds are small that royal jelly is part of the grail we're seeking.

[evolvedhuman2012]

 

i see.....interesting.....what do people think on the matter of royal jelly then? have not look much into that yet. but i do beleive i heard that it make the bee queen live long ass hell long, well compared to ordinary worker bees anyways...

curious how that affect humans. heard very little study been done on the matter.

Royal jelly is delicious and healthy if you're a bee larva or wanna be bee queen. RJ 4 u? Buy the spinach with your hard-earned cash, and grab some more berries. Besides wasting your money and hopes, royal jelly may cause you an expensive allergic reaction. Or hives. Or -- ugh -- anaphylactic shock. Odds are small that royal jelly is part of the grail we're seeking.

 

 

 

 

yea? what's your reason for that it may be bad?  i like to  hear it.  why would it be any more less than say goji berry/bitter melon?

 

 

Edited by evolvedhuman2012, 25 September 2014 - 01:38 AM.

[evolvedhuman2012]

 

i see.....interesting.....what do people think on the matter of royal jelly then? have not look much into that yet. but i do beleive i heard that it make the bee queen live long ass hell long, well compared to ordinary worker bees anyways...

curious how that affect humans. heard very little study been done on the matter.

Royal jelly is delicious and healthy if you're a bee larva or wanna be bee queen. RJ 4 u? Buy the spinach with your hard-earned cash, and grab some more berries. Besides wasting your money and hopes, royal jelly may cause you an expensive allergic reaction. Or hives. Or -- ugh -- anaphylactic shock. Odds are small that royal jelly is part of the grail we're seeking.

 

 

 

nm, i looked into what you were talking about.

[timar]

The manuka honey is interesting, probably another gimmick, definitely expensive, and obviously pure high GI sugar. I doubt its pros outweigh its high sugar cons. Use it -- if at all -- in very tiny amounts.

 

I didn't suggest to use makona honey at all (I wouldn't eat it because of its methylglyoxal content). It is researched for topical application on infectious wounds, particularly against antibiotic resistant bugs such as MSRA.

Edited by timar, 25 September 2014 - 06:11 AM.

[evolvedhuman2012]

actually quite surprised no one pointed this out thus far.
came across this like nutritional science research article showing that cyclist dramaatically improved in speed and power over placebo.  doesn;t seem so hyped now in light of this.

 

however, also came across this  research site that cautioned honey for it's potential bacterial/mold content.

knew there was a good reason why i used it for a while for energy boost.  have not found anything like it.  so anyone know an alternative/something similar, i 'm always open-minded on stuff like this.

 

heating way may be the way to go to get benefits and lessened risk.

Edited by evolvedhuman2012, 29 September 2014 - 08:48 AM.

[KJx]

Heated honey = sugar. And no offense, but saying that raw honey contains mold means nothing - almost everything contains it. Leave almost any food item on the table for an hour and there will be mold in it. Breathe indoors air and you'll breathe in some mold very likely. If the raw organic honey is produced hygienically there is absolutely nothing to fear. There are probably hundred times more mold spores in almost any brand of peanut butter than regular raw honey. Also, honey has a mild fungicidic effect. Never seen an actual mold form on top of honey. 

One other interesting thing about honey: many beekeepers take the honey from bees and leave sugar for them not to starve. This in turn reduces the quality of the honey. 

 

Personally I try not to 'overdose' in honey as I read in small amounts it increases testosterone and in large amounts it decreases it, so I'm assuming there are beneficial/harmful processes in the body depending on dosage. My guess is that the decrease in testosterone in high doses of honey happens because of high sugar intake from honey.

My favorite uses of honey: a smoothie of full hemp seeds, full sesame seeds, bananas, honey, vanilla, cinnamon. 2: spelta+pumpkin seed light bread with honey and coconut oil spread on top of it. Yummy. 
By the way I live in a country that possibly has the largest beekeeper/population ratio.

[evolvedhuman2012]

Heated honey = sugar. And no offense, but saying that raw honey contains mold means nothing - almost everything contains it. Leave almost any food item on the table for an hour and there will be mold in it. Breathe indoors air and you'll breathe in some mold very likely. If the raw organic honey is produced hygienically there is absolutely nothing to fear. There are probably hundred times more mold spores in almost any brand of peanut butter than regular raw honey. Also, honey has a mild fungicidic effect. Never seen an actual mold form on top of honey. 

One other interesting thing about honey: many beekeepers take the honey from bees and leave sugar for them not to starve. This in turn reduces the quality of the honey. 

 

Personally I try not to 'overdose' in honey as I read in small amounts it increases testosterone and in large amounts it decreases it, so I'm assuming there are beneficial/harmful processes in the body depending on dosage. My guess is that the decrease in testosterone in high doses of honey happens because of high sugar intake from honey.

My favorite uses of honey: a smoothie of full hemp seeds, full sesame seeds, bananas, honey, vanilla, cinnamon. 2: spelta+pumpkin seed light bread with honey and coconut oil spread on top of it. Yummy. 
By the way I live in a country that possibly has the largest beekeeper/population ratio.

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks for reply. i agree with what you said on the "everything has mold" point.   the mold and bacteria caution sourced from a science research site so i give it some consideration.

 

hows low levels on mold on anything compared with black mold you can actually see in mold damaged indoor area? that's a good question.

 

 

and also like to point out, while jam and honey are both sugar, i think they are different in that honey would boost energy while jam does not.  the cyclist study demonstrated that. 

 

maybe some folks disagree that honey is good food for energy boost...but i 'm just going with that the scientific evidence.  i like to seek the truth...don't matter to me if folks have bias against honey as just "worthless sugar" or whatever.

 

people's bias are not my problem...

 

 

 

[krillin]

I use this paper as an excuse to eat honey. My second and third references indicate that methylglyoxal mostly doesn't survive digestion.

 

Curr Aging Sci. 2010 Dec;3(3):239-41.

Honey, health and longevity.

Cooper RA, Fehily AM, Pickering JE, Erusalimsky JD, Elwood PC. 

Abstract 

Honey is a broad spectrum antimicrobial agent which can enhance wound healing. A beneficial effect in cancer has been shown in cell cultures and in animal studies and a number of further nutritional and physiological effects of relevance to health and function have been shown for honey. A representative sub-sample of 665 men within the Caerphilly Cohort kept a weighed dietary record for seven days. Risk factors for vascular and other diseases in 41 men who recorded eating honey suggest that these men were on the whole healthier than the 624 men who had not recorded honey consumption. All-cause mortality during 25 years of follow-up was considerably lower in the men who had consumed honey, the hazard ratio, adjusted for a number of possible confounding factors, being 0.44 (95% confidence limits 0.23, 0.86; P<0.017). Because of the small number of subjects and of deaths in this study, further data from other large cohorts will be required before any effect upon mortality and other health effects of honey consumption can be adequately evaluated. 

PMID:     20735343

 

J Agric Food Chem. 2013 Oct 30;61(43):10253-60. 

Metabolic transit of dietary methylglyoxal.

Degen J, Vogel M, Richter D, Hellwig M, Henle T. 

Abstract 

Methylglyoxal (MGO) is responsible for the pronounced antibacterial activity of manuka honey, in which it may reach concentrations up to 800 mg/kg. As MGO formed in vivo is discussed to play a role in diabetic complications, the metabolic transit of dietary MGO was studied within a 3 day dietary recall with four healthy volunteers. Determination of MGO in 24 h urine was performed with GC-MS after derivatization with O-(2,3,4,5,6-pentafluorobenzyl)hydroxylamine, and D-lactate was quantified enzymatically. Following a diet virtually free from MGO and other glycation compounds, a defined amount of MGO (500 μmol in manuka honey) was administered in the morning of day 2. Renal excretion was between 0.1 and 0.4 μmol/day for MGO and between 50 and 220 μmol/day for D-lactate. No influence on excretion of both compounds was observed following administration of MGO. To investigate the stability of MGO under physiological conditions, a simulated in vitro gastrointestinal digestion was performed with MGO-containing honey. After 8 h of in vitro digestion, only 5-20% of the initial methylglyoxal was recovered. This indicates that dietary MGO is rapidly degraded during the digestion process in the intestine and, therefore, exerts no influence on the MGO level in vivo. 

PMID:     23451712

 

J Agric Food Chem. 2013 Mar 6;61(9):2140-5. 

Influence of in vitro simulated gastroduodenal digestion on methylglyoxal concentration of Manuka ( Lectospermum scoparium ) honey.

Daglia M, Ferrari D, Collina S, Curti V. 

Abstract 

Manuka honey (MH) is a functional food that shows in vitro antimicrobial activity and to which wound healing properties, positive effects on oral health, and beneficial properties during the treatment of gastrointestinal infection diseases and upper gastrointestinal dyspepsia are assigned. The antibacterial activity of MH is mainly due to its high concentration of methylglyoxal (MGO), a highly bifunctional alkylating agent that can induce rapid nonenzymatic modifications of proteins. The aim of the present study was to investigate the influence of in vitro simulated gastric and gastroduodenal digestion on MGO content of MH. To this aim commercial MH samples, with different MGO concentrations, were submitted to digestion, and MGO was determined before and after digestion by a validated RP-HPLC-DAD method. Moreover, the role of MGO in causing carbonylation of the digestive proteins and influencing their enzymatic activities was investigated. The results showed that after digestion MGO concentration decreases because it reacts with digestive enzymes by carbonylating their free amino groups. Nevertheless, carbonylation of pepsin and pancreatin does not influence their physiological activity and therefore does not seem to interfere with the digestion process. 

PMID:     23406199