210 replies to this topic

[APBT]

Just stumbled on this vendor:  http://www.drdavidwi...ge-with-niagen/

 

[APBT]

Removed from the NR experience thread and re-posted here in the appropriate thread:

 

romtm

Posted Today, 12:07 PM

Live Cell Research discontinued shipment of  Niagen to my country, without any reason, after I bought many times from them,more than 15 bottles-they limited shipment only to USA and Canada.

 

Can somebody help me with a new supplier to my country,Romania? I bought it with 37 USD/bottle(30 pcs of 250 mg).

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[immortality101]

Hey Guys there is a really good sell on Niagen at Dr David Williams site until the end of today (August 9th 2015). Go to the clearance link. There it is on clearance for 19.99. After that use the promo code "enjoy38" and you will get another 38% off. If you order over $99 you get free shipping. 

 

I ordered 20 bottles and just keep them in the fridge. I was trying to get mine from Live Cell but that's almost $12 a bottle. It's the 100mg so that could be a negative for some. It's a plus for me as it makes it convenient to control my doses. 

 

No matter where you get it I would urge you to keep a few bottles extra on hand. I am a long time member but rarely comment so hopefully some of you will take me seriously. Fair chance there will be a run on the product sometime this year or next. I am jumping the gun on a few things but I happen to be in the know on a study. Maybe not though if Chromadex has a large supply and can make it fairly fast. 

[immortality101]

Removed from the NR experience thread and re-posted here in the appropriate thread:

 

romtm

Posted Today, 12:07 PM

 

Live Cell Research discontinued shipment of  Niagen to my country, without any reason, after I bought many times from them,more than 15 bottles-they limited shipment only to USA and Canada.

 

 

 

Can somebody help me with a new supplier to my country,Romania? I bought it with 37 USD/bottle(30 pcs of 250 mg).

 

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Check out my post I just made.

[Bryan_S]

romtm are you saying they took your money and didn't ship you the product or just wouldn't accept your very last order? HPN has done an outstanding job and I haven't heard any complaints. I just emailed them to confirm their next discount offer code. here is their website http://hpnsupplements.com I would email them and ask about shipping.

[Bryan_S]

Hey Guys there is a really good sell on Niagen at Dr David Williams site until the end of today (August 9th 2015). Go to the clearance link. There it is on clearance for 19.99. After that use the promo code "enjoy38" and you will get another 38% off. If you order over $99 you get free shipping. 

 

I ordered 20 bottles and just keep them in the fridge. I was trying to get mine from Live Cell but that's almost $12 a bottle. It's the 100mg so that could be a negative for some. It's a plus for me as it makes it convenient to control my doses. 

 

No matter where you get it I would urge you to keep a few bottles extra on hand. I am a long time member but rarely comment so hopefully some of you will take me seriously. Fair chance there will be a run on the product sometime this year or next. I am jumping the gun on a few things but I happen to be in the know on a study. Maybe not though if Chromadex has a large supply and can make it fairly fast. 

 

NRG Advantage with Niagen® (30 capsules, 30-day supply)

http://www.drdavidwilliams.com/

 

That works out to $6.66 per gram. (100mg x 30 capsules= 3grams 19.99/3=$6.66)

Edited by Bryan_S, 10 August 2015 - 12:23 AM.

[immortality101]

 

Hey Guys there is a really good sell on Niagen at Dr David Williams site until the end of today (August 9th 2015). Go to the clearance link. There it is on clearance for 19.99. After that use the promo code "enjoy38" and you will get another 38% off. If you order over $99 you get free shipping. 

 

I ordered 20 bottles and just keep them in the fridge. I was trying to get mine from Live Cell but that's almost $12 a bottle. It's the 100mg so that could be a negative for some. It's a plus for me as it makes it convenient to control my doses. 

 

No matter where you get it I would urge you to keep a few bottles extra on hand. I am a long time member but rarely comment so hopefully some of you will take me seriously. Fair chance there will be a run on the product sometime this year or next. I am jumping the gun on a few things but I happen to be in the know on a study. Maybe not though if Chromadex has a large supply and can make it fairly fast. 

 

NRG Advantage with Niagen® (30 capsules, 30-day supply)

http://www.drdavidwilliams.com/

 

That works out to $6.66 per gram. (100mg x 30 capsules= 3grams 19.99/3=$6.66)

 

You also have to subtract 38%.

[Bryan_S]

 

 

Hey Guys there is a really good sell on Niagen at Dr David Williams site until the end of today (August 9th 2015). Go to the clearance link. There it is on clearance for 19.99. After that use the promo code "enjoy38" and you will get another 38% off. If you order over $99 you get free shipping. 

 

I ordered 20 bottles and just keep them in the fridge. I was trying to get mine from Live Cell but that's almost $12 a bottle. It's the 100mg so that could be a negative for some. It's a plus for me as it makes it convenient to control my doses. 

 

No matter where you get it I would urge you to keep a few bottles extra on hand. I am a long time member but rarely comment so hopefully some of you will take me seriously. Fair chance there will be a run on the product sometime this year or next. I am jumping the gun on a few things but I happen to be in the know on a study. Maybe not though if Chromadex has a large supply and can make it fairly fast. 

 

NRG Advantage with Niagen® (30 capsules, 30-day supply)

http://www.drdavidwilliams.com/

 

That works out to $6.66 per gram. (100mg x 30 capsules= 3grams 19.99/3=$6.66)

 

You also have to subtract 38%.

 

Not sure about that, I put a bottle in my cart and it cost $19.99 based on yesterdays discount offer. They package 100 mg capsules and there are 30 of them per bottle so that works out to 3 grams of NR per bottle or $6.66 per gram. Now thats not to say they didn't discount their price from $34.99 per bottle and that offer worked out to a 43% price off discount. Normally they sell their product for $11.66 per gram based on $34.99 per bottle and 3 grams of NR per bottle. It appears they are still trying to find an appropriate asking price and I would expect further discount offers from them moving forward.

 

I've also never heard of this other offer "I was trying to get mine from Live Cell but that's almost $12 a bottle." $12 dollars per bottle that's unheard of, back up the truck and I'll take it all! One of our other members is claiming they offered him a 40 to 50% discount which I find highly suspect. I asked him to bring that discussion over here to the vender thread or to LCR's thread but he has not done so, again this makes think twice. So as far as I can tell LCR is just trying to produce some shock reaction to generate some inquiries, then I suppose they'll hit you with the real price where they can still make a profit. Look guys if we all put in orders for the new 50% discount they would go belly up according to a source I inquired with. So if you can get it, I say buy, buy, buy and buy all that you can get, other wise its a gimmick with limited supply just to generate interest.

 

You should also be aware there are legitimate competitive offers out there that come around on a regular basis for our LongeCity members. The Group Buy offer from HPN is coming up just next week. High Performance Nutrition has supported our members with discount offers since early last year and that support continues. They've stood by our members because our forums advertise the benefits of Niagen. This month they will be offering 2 price categories based on your purchase quantity, this offer ranges between $4.47 per gram and $4.27 per gram, that best price works out to about a 33.4% discount at $31.99 per bottle compared to their normal retail price of $47.99 per bottle. They package 7.5 grams into 60 125mg vegetarian capsules and boast they produce the cleanest product on the market. They are also planning several other dose categories. They are are third-Party Tested and manufacture their product in a NSF cGMP certified facility. No other vender has claimed to be up to that standard. I'm just saying.

[immortality101]

I appreciate your suspicions. However I bought 10 bottles ( second order for a friend)  for $123.94. 30 pills at 100 mg per bottle.I believe that comes out a little over $4 a gram.   Sorry you weren't able to figure out the discount. It has to come to $99 initially. So for example right now they are on clearance for $19.99. So before you can apply the code you have to have  5 or possibly 6 bottles in your cart and then apply the discount code. I just checked and they are no longer doing 38% but are doing 30% if you put in "site30". Still a decent deal but not worth posting about. I believe similarly to you. I believe Healthy Directions (drdavidwillaims) is experimenting with the price and also trying to get some volume sales. They probably were expecting better sales. My guess is they are cold at best. Anyways I won't be posting on this again as I prefer spending my time researching than trying to convince  people of a sale. Happy regimens everyone.

[immortality101]

 

 

 

Hey Guys there is a really good sell on Niagen at Dr David Williams site until the end of today (August 9th 2015). Go to the clearance link. There it is on clearance for 19.99. After that use the promo code "enjoy38" and you will get another 38% off. If you order over $99 you get free shipping. 

 

I ordered 20 bottles and just keep them in the fridge. I was trying to get mine from Live Cell but that's almost $12 a bottle. It's the 100mg so that could be a negative for some. It's a plus for me as it makes it convenient to control my doses. 

 

No matter where you get it I would urge you to keep a few bottles extra on hand. I am a long time member but rarely comment so hopefully some of you will take me seriously. Fair chance there will be a run on the product sometime this year or next. I am jumping the gun on a few things but I happen to be in the know on a study. Maybe not though if Chromadex has a large supply and can make it fairly fast. 

 

NRG Advantage with Niagen® (30 capsules, 30-day supply)

http://www.drdavidwilliams.com/

 

That works out to $6.66 per gram. (100mg x 30 capsules= 3grams 19.99/3=$6.66)

 

You also have to subtract 38%.

 

Not sure about that, I put a bottle in my cart and it cost $19.99 based on yesterdays discount offer. They package 100 mg capsules and there are 30 of them per bottle so that works out to 3 grams of NR per bottle or $6.66 per gram. Now thats not to say they didn't discount their price from $34.99 per bottle and that offer worked out to a 43% price off discount. Normally they sell their product for $11.66 per gram based on $34.99 per bottle and 3 grams of NR per bottle. It appears they are still trying to find an appropriate asking price and I would expect further discount offers from them moving forward.

 

I've also never heard of this other offer "I was trying to get mine from Live Cell but that's almost $12 a bottle." $12 dollars per bottle that's unheard of, back up the truck and I'll take it all! One of our other members is claiming they offered him a 40 to 50% discount which I find highly suspect. I asked him to bring that discussion over here to the vender thread or to LCR's thread but he has not done so, again this makes think twice. So as far as I can tell LCR is just trying to produce some shock reaction to generate some inquiries, then I suppose they'll hit you with the real price where they can still make a profit. Look guys if we all put in orders for the new 50% discount they would go belly up according to a source I inquired with. So if you can get it, I say buy, buy, buy and buy all that you can get, other wise its a gimmick with limited supply just to generate interest.

 

You should also be aware there are legitimate competitive offers out there that come around on a regular basis for our LongeCity members. The Group Buy offer from HPN is coming up just next week. High Performance Nutrition has supported our members with discount offers since early last year and that support continues. They've stood by our members because our forums advertise the benefits of Niagen. This month they will be offering 2 price categories based on your purchase quantity, this offer ranges between $4.47 per gram and $4.27 per gram, that best price works out to about a 33.4% discount at $31.99 per bottle compared to their normal retail price of $47.99 per bottle. They package 7.5 grams into 60 125mg vegetarian capsules and boast they produce the cleanest product on the market. They are also planning several other dose categories. They are are third-Party Tested and manufacture their product in a NSF cGMP certified facility. No other vender has claimed to be up to that standard. I'm just saying.

 

Sorry, I replied above without quoting you. 

[Bryan_S]

I appreciate your suspicions. However I bought 10 bottles ( second order for a friend)  for $123.94. 30 pills at 100 mg per bottle.I believe that comes out a little over $4 a gram.   Sorry you weren't able to figure out the discount. It has to come to $99 initially. So for example right now they are on clearance for $19.99. So before you can apply the code you have to have  5 or possibly 6 bottles in your cart and then apply the discount code. I just checked and they are no longer doing 38% but are doing 30% if you put in "site30". Still a decent deal but not worth posting about. I believe similarly to you. I believe Healthy Directions (drdavidwillaims) is experimenting with the price and also trying to get some volume sales. They probably were expecting better sales. My guess is they are cold at best. Anyways I won't be posting on this again as I prefer spending my time researching than trying to convince  people of a sale. Happy regimens everyone.

 

I got it to work and right now what they are doing is a 60% discount off the original price. At $34.99 per bottle originally and with stacking your added discount code to an already discounted clarence sale price it comes out to $13.99 per bottle for 3 grams. That works out to $4.66 per gram. I expect since this vender is new and this is just one of many products they will massage the price until they generate consistent orders.

 

So at the moment we have 3 venders with deals.

 

HPN @ $4.27 per gram for 12 bottles starting next week Aug 15th confirmed

HPN @ $4.47 per gram for 6 bottles starting next week Aug 15th confirmed

DrDavidWilliams @ $4.66 per gram for 6 bottles currently running Aug 10th confirmed

Live Cell Research @ $4.70 per gram for 6 bottles currently running. The new rumored 50% off offer is not currently confirmed and we don't how many bottles or if shipping would be included but it would represent $3.13 per gram if proven true.

Live Cell Research @ $5.20 per gram for 3 bottles currently running.

[trakker]

HPN on sale for  a bit less here

If my math is correct, its:

$4.1 per gram for 6 bottles 

[trakker]

Bummer, looks like that sale on HPN  is over.... is back to the usual price...

 

[Bryan_S]

Bummer, looks like that sale on HPN  is over.... is back to the usual price...

 

 

Are you nuts . . . High Performance Nutrition extended their offer until the 24th next week. But since we are talking about rumors. What I heard is that Alivebynature – Natural Health broke some kind of agreement with HPN as their retailer and they may not be able to fulfill their orders. What ever we post here in a public forum, just accept that the people and companies we discuss are reading our posts to keep tabs on one another. As far as verifying these rumors you'll just have to see who's offer is still in place and who's isn't?

Edited by Bryan_S, 18 August 2015 - 09:07 PM.

[trakker]

Sorry, I wasn't clear.  Just meant that price I posted about on Alivebynature was no longer in place.

 

Didn't mean to imply anything about the HPN price/sales you listed that are going on... It does seem to be the best deal around.

 

Will go back to my lurker mode now...

 

Edited by trakker, 18 August 2015 - 10:36 PM.

[Bryan_S]

New HPN offer http://www.longecity...e-8#entry754201

[aribadabar]

• Jarrow's seems to have come out with their own Niagen product which with the current 20% off coupon at Swanson for orders of $75+ should be comparable in cost to the HPN offer:

  http://www.swansonvi...-100-mg-60-tabs

  

   

Edited by aribadabar, 26 February 2016 - 02:34 AM.

[dimensio]

Just wanna throw this out there...4 bottles of LEF's NAD+ Cell Regeneration NIAGEN Nicotinamide Riboside is $80(4 bottles @ 19.50 ea.) right now....super cheap.

 

http://www.lifeexten...ell-Regenerator

 

 

[Truckin Tortuga]

I started taking HPN NR in July 2016. I just started my second bottle of NR, but by Thorne Research. Has anyone noticed that the capsules are different in size and the powder color in the capsules look different? HPN is smaller and has a slight tan-ish color. While the Thorne ones are slightly larger and powder is white in color. They both are 125mg for each capsule. If these companies get their NR (Niagen) sourced from Chromadex as stated on both bottles, why the difference in size and color???  Any other same or similar experiences with Chromadex Niagen sourced companies?    

[Heisok]

The active ingredient is the same. The other ingredients are  the difference is that you are noticing.

 

Thorne Niacel: Other Ingredients: Hypromellose (derived from cellulose) capsule, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Leucine, Silicon Dioxide.

 

The other ingredients in HPN's version are: Microcrystalline Celluse, and Cellulose which is the capsule

[Bryan_S]

Give us the per gram values on those other products please. You'll notice thats how we weighed the products at the top of the thread. Also by their ingredients and fillers but I'll gloss over that for now. But I do want to start weighing our venders on their transparency. Meaning If you say your product is third party tested and it meets such and such guidelines will you prove it or tell us to go take a hike. I've run into this already from one vender and from a public safety standpoint we need to rank our venders on a truth in marketing standpoint and weed out the slackers. Price is a good metric but what if I take a product and I get tummy problems from a high microbial count?

 

 

 

Remember the LEF's product is 100 mg, 30 capsules per bottle. Or 3 grams. So even if you sign up to have it auto shipped ($19.50 / 3 grams) it's $6.50 per gram on that discount.

 

The Jarrow Formulas is 60 100mg capsules or 6 grams for $47.56 or $7.93 per gram this month.

 

Thorne Research, Niacel at iherb.com came up today at $32.99 per bottle. Best offer outside of HPN in awhile. Its 60 capsules at 125mg per or 7.5 grams or $4.40 per gram. They have the closest price to HPN's discount except look at the ingredients its not as clean.

 

HPN begins their normal 60-day discount tomorrow. hpnsupplements.com/product-category/niagen/

 

The LongeCity 6-11 bottle purchases should use code longecity15 this price works out to around $4.47 per gram.

 

If you want the better deal starting at 12 bottles use the code longecity15x this price reduces the cost to around $4.27 per gram.

 

HPN has a new "test" product to launch, its 25 grams worth in one bottle. They are still doing the 125mg capsules but instead of 60 capsules per bottle, how about 200. I think they want to replace the 3 bottle orders and reduce the packaging waste and shipping. They are in California and we should all think this way if we can reduce our environmental impact.

 

 200 capsules 200*.125 = 25 grams

 

They are offering this for $109.99 or 109.99 / 25 =  $4.40 per gram.

 

We should expect it to start early September and I will post it when they complete their order page. This will first be just for our members (we are the test market) and will not be visible on their website to the general public. They plan to run this offer every day, no discount windows. So it will be like the everyday lc3 code for $109.84 for 3 bottles 0r 22.5 grams for $4.88 per gram but cheaper and the offer will be there when you notice your down to the last weeks worth of capsules. No more stocking up to save money which for me has been a hassle.

 

So guys the price is coming down as more venders come online.

Edited by Bryan_S, 14 August 2016 - 05:27 AM.

[Bryan_S]

Some think I'm being a hard @@S about this topic but we are still getting negative customer feedback from LCR customers over their alleged third party testing and their claim of a certified lab.

 

Yes I run the LongeCity NR bi-monthly group buy. I do this purely from a Quality Control standpoint because I want a product I can trust and they stepped up when we wanted a discount, when no one else would respond to a group buy. I receive no other incentive than those who purchase their product. Meaning they pay me nothing I just get the same discount you do. Since then they've supported our group and made product changes to suite our needs I can say they've been very accommodative. Am a bit I biased because what I'm asking of LCR, HPN has already gladly provided to retain our business and HPN's been warned new testing requests may be soon coming from our members.

 

So I'd like to think we've started an environment where there is no safe haven for any vender on neglecting testing on safety issues and I say let the mass inquiry begin because every vender now wants a piece of our business and as a group its about time we start asking the right questions and demonstrating our loyalty to those who comply with our wants and buying power.

 

Seems LCR has refused to share confirmation they've ever meet either claim "third party testing or a certified lab" since publication MAY 24th, 2014. I don't expect every vender to make these claims but LCR has made them to win our business and when asked to provide proof they doge the questions. Its not up to me to post proof they haven't provided evidence of their claims because no one on this forum has received any proof either. Of the 2 claimed safety assurances the third party customer safety assurance is the major unsubstantiated claim and secondarily the assurance of a certified lab can't be confirmed through either their local, state authorities or through contacting LCR directly for documentation.

 

Here are their claims:

 

"How do I know Live Cell Research products are pure?

Live Cell Research is committed to producing high-quality supplements without any synthetic binders or fillers. Our ingredients are derived from only the purest and most sustainable sources we can find, and we work hard to keep them that way through every step of the production process. To ensure the quality of each individual bottle, we have every batch tested by an independent third party testing facility."

 

Easy enough to demonstrate.

 

"Third-Party Tested: With addition to our certified lab, random samples of every product batch are sent to an independent lab for third party testing. This further verifies the quality and effectiveness of our products, creating better transparency and lets our customers know that what’s on our labels are actually what’s in our product." 

 

If so please show us.

 

Latest emailed response: "Since Certificate of Analysis are lot-specific, we do not provide them to our customers as we regularly have new batches analyzed and delivered. All our supplements are GMP (Good Manufacturing Practice) compliant, according to guidelines set by the FDA. These guidelines assure that all of our products have the identity, strength, composition, quality, and purity that appear on their labels" Truth is they "will not provide any proof they are spending any money to assure your safety. Many have attempted to confirm they've perform any lot testing and you are encouraged to do the same. Questions dating back to these company statements have failed to yield they've done any testing since 2014.

 

Safety assurance is an issue we should all be concerned with and companies should do what they advertise without question. Those who cut safety protocols to gain an edge on the competition should be chastised because they've done so at the customers expense. If a vender wants to sell us something they say is independently tested I say prove it! If you've made an investment on my behalf you should be proud to flaunt it!

 

As more and more competition appears in this market those who are cutting corners may differentiate their product from others by price but not in a desirable way. Reduced price may mean they've cut safety protocols or they are using cheaper manufacturing methods or ingredients. As we read posts of soft stool and gastronomical upset this should be worth checking up on. So I encourage everyone to ask for proof of independent product testing because otherwise we have no idea what we are ingesting. So I would begin pressing this issue until they comply with customer requests of their lot testing, and for those who want to know if they've ever performed what they've advertised in the past, ask for the earlier documentation since these customer assurance statements were posted in 2014 through today.

Here is the email to contact: support@livecellresearch.com

 

So once I see verifiable confirmation they've done the past testing they've claimed, "since MAY 24, 2014" I'll let this issue rest and I'll issue LCR an apology on this forum, otherwise I'm calling their bluff and expecting everyone else to press the issue until we see past proven compliance of their claimed certified lab and third party testing.

 

After 2-years of challenging their unproven statements I think I'm being very restrained and feel I should have brought this to a head sooner. I apologize if this is your vender being I'm the one to challenge their truthfulness but as I've said; "if they can prove they done as they say since May of 2014 I'll will apologize here on this forum.

 

So as the third party testing is generated from LCR, HPN or the multitude of other venders lets see those documents posted here on this forum for every NR customer to see. I want to see competition on a truth in advertising level as well as safety issues, along with price.

 

Edit PS  HPN has asked you send your testing requests to customercare@hpnsupplements.com

Edited by Bryan_S, 26 August 2016 - 06:28 AM.

[lourdaud]

What's the cheapest source for buying one bottle of Niagen?

Is there any code on HPN for that?

[Oakman]

What's the cheapest source for buying one bottle of Niagen?

Is there any code on HPN for that?

 

https://www.amazon.c...ords=niacel-250

 

That would be a 60 day supply of 250mg caps for $29.50/mo. No codes, no special discount, just good 'ol Amazon (which is Thorne Research's retail price, BTW). 

[zorba990]

Looking forward to someone offering the pure bulk powder (swanson?)

[Bryan_S]

 

What's the cheapest source for buying one bottle of Niagen?

Is there any code on HPN for that?

 

https://www.amazon.c...ords=niacel-250

 

That would be a 60 day supply of 250mg caps for $29.50/mo. No codes, no special discount, just good 'ol Amazon (which is Thorne Research's retail price, BTW). 

 

 

Third party testing a decent price but not as clean as the HPN product and not suitable for sublingual dosing. (Silica powder)

[Bryan_S]

Looking forward to someone offering the pure bulk powder (swanson?)

 

What about a time released version?

[Bryan_S]

What's the cheapest source for buying one bottle of Niagen?

Is there any code on HPN for that?

 

They are producing a bulk bottle for test release. I don't think there will be a code just an unpublished link I'll share when they tell me its ready.

[Oakman]

 

Looking forward to someone offering the pure bulk powder (swanson?)

 

What about a time released version?

 

 

 

 

What's the cheapest source for buying one bottle of Niagen?

Is there any code on HPN for that?

 

They are producing a bulk bottle for test release. I don't think there will be a code just an unpublished link I'll share when they tell me its ready.

 

 

Here's some HPN powder >>   https://www.amazon.c...s/dp/B00R8QVEAO

 

60 x 125 mg grams for $46.99 or $6.27 gram  >>  not much of a deal.

 

But wait! What is intriguing is if you look close at the image shown it indicates the HPN jar as 150 grams (!!!).

 

Now THAT would be something 

 

Opps..now I see they include a bunch of fiber, 2 grams Chicory vegetable fiber each serving... oh well...  

Edited by Oakman, 09 September 2016 - 03:27 PM.

[Bryan_S]

Here's some HPN powder >>   https://www.amazon.c...s/dp/B00R8QVEAO

 

60 x 125 mg grams for $46.99 or $6.27 gram  >>  not much of a deal.

 

But wait! What is intriguing is if you look close at the image shown it indicates the HPN jar as 150 grams (!!!).

 

Now THAT would be something 

 

Opps..now I see they include a bunch of fiber, 2 grams Chicory vegetable fiber each serving... oh well...  

 

 

Its not what your looking for, this product from what they've told me is for adding to drinks or shakes. The fillers are all organic rather than synthetic. Its a convince and what you pay for, easy to measure the dose with a scoop but not what you are seeking.