210 replies to this topic

[MikeDC]

The group buy is still active with HPN. $23 per month if you buy 6 180 bottles

[bluemoon]

HPN still sells a three month supply of NR (if you take 250 mg a day) for $79. If no shipping charge, then $26 a bottle but today they added a charge, so $28 a bottle.  

[Moondancer]

Is there still a group buy for (HPN) NR? Can European  members partake in the group buy?

 

I used to buy the 180 count bottle through Amazon, but (aside the fact the price has increased nearly 50% since October 2017) they don't seem to ship internationally anymore.

[Phoebus]

does anyone know where I can buy pure NR powder? 

 

not on amazon that i can see

 

thanks 

[aribadabar]

does anyone know where I can buy pure NR powder? 

 

https://hpnsupplemen...er-nad-booster™

[able]

https://hpnsupplemen...er-nad-booster™

 

Unfortunately, that is NOT pure NR.

 

Is  1.5 Gram per scoop, but only .125 Gram NR.

 

The rest is "fructoglycerides".  

 

I was hoping to use it sublingual, but is the very worst option for that.  Is very "gummy" and doesn't dissolve at all, but sticks to your teeth.

 

Revgenetics was selling a pure NR powder I used, but seems to have removed it from their site.

[aribadabar]

Unfortunately, that is NOT pure NR.

 

Is  1.5 Gram per scoop, but only .125 Gram NR.

 

The rest is "fructoglycerides".  

 

I was hoping to use it sublingual, but is the very worst option for that.  Is very "gummy" and doesn't dissolve at all, but sticks to your teeth.

 

Revgenetics was selling a pure NR powder I used, but seems to have removed it from their site.

 

You are right - when I saw "pure" I was thinking more of lack of Mg stearate, HPMC etc fillers/excipients.

 

The so-called fructooligosaccharides is a fancy name for Inulin which is having the gumming effect you are describing.

I guess they picked it as it is slightly sweet and can mask the NR taste to a large extent.

[Phoebus]

Unfortunately, that is NOT pure NR.

 

Is  1.5 Gram per scoop, but only .125 Gram NR.

 

The rest is "fructoglycerides".  

 

I was hoping to use it sublingual, but is the very worst option for that.  Is very "gummy" and doesn't dissolve at all, but sticks to your teeth.

 

Revgenetics was selling a pure NR powder I used, but seems to have removed it from their site.

 

 

damn, so pure NR does not exist at a commercial product? 

[Phoebus]

Am looking at sourcing pure NR powder off alibaba

 

Lots and lots of listings there for this 

 

does anyone have any experience doing this? 

 

talking to a vendor now who says they have 95% NR powder and that taht is the purest you are likely to find. I dont know 

 

how the hell do I know they are actually selling me NR and not some other BS?

 

any input? 

[AliceTu]

how the hell do I know they are actually selling me NR and not some other BS?

 

 

You don't, and you can't, not unless you have the actual product -- not a sample -- tested. There are no controls in that market. Caveat Emptor. Alas.

[debu]

Anyone know what happened to the Jarrow NR? I noticed more energy from it than other brands and it seems it's no longer availble?

[aribadabar]

Anyone know what happened to the Jarrow NR? I noticed more energy from it than other brands and it seems it's no longer availble?

 

Probably Chromadex removed them from their list of distributors.

[Del369]

NMN through Alivebynature seems to be still possible 3x 60 caps by 125mg for $125 plus $20 postage, if anyone knows of anything better please let me know, getting these for now.

I know this is an NR thread but it looks like getting NR is getting difficult for us Euros.

[me2]

I've been looking to stock up on some more NR -- always purchased from HPN but they don't even carry it anymore??!  Nor Jarrow... LEF does, but their quantities are tiny and expensive.  So WHERE is everyone getting it these days? And why in the world have all these brands stopped carrying it? 

[Oakman]

I've been looking to stock up on some more NR -- always purchased from HPN but they don't even carry it anymore??!  Nor Jarrow... LEF does, but their quantities are tiny and expensive.  So WHERE is everyone getting it these days? And why in the world have all these brands stopped carrying it? 

 

Psssst...don't tell anyone else, but this is the best price I could find and along with 60x 125mg Niagen, each capsule also includes 7.5 mg Vit C, and 100mg of this.... "Cera-Q is a protein hydrolysate ingredient that is obtained from a silk fibroin found in silkworm cocoons. As we age, a deleterious substance builds up in the brain. It is known as beta-amyloid plaque. This plaque build-up contributes to a host of debilitating cognitive issues and diseases. Cera-Q is also able to increase glucose uptake into the brain. This is important, because Cera Q is able to provide support and energy, assisting the human brain with all levels of cognitive tasks."

 

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Have no idea about that last ingredient, but it comes at a lower cost for real Chromadex Niagen than anyone else I could find. As to why others stopped carrying Niagen, MO is that Chromadex is getting stingy and wants all the $$, so they cut off nearly everyone else. Why these guys have it, I have no idea. Overall, seems like Chromadex is shooting themselves in the proverbial foot doing this, but what do I know(!)

Edited by Oakman, 20 November 2018 - 06:23 PM.

[me2]

Thanks for the reply, Oakman!  I'll check it out.  The lack of discussion about this situation is quite perplexing.

[Bryan_S]

 

Much of what's going on stems from the Elysium-ChromaDex Litigation. See https://www.right-of-assembly.org

for a complete blow by blow account.

 

OK here is what happened in a concise article which gives you a taste; https://techcrunch.c...h-of-agreement/

 

So since Elysium Health got involved a lot of crap has been undermining ChromaDex as a sole source of NR and Elysium Health has challenged the king to a duel, winner takes all. What is taking place is a fight over control of the future market for NR. Who will win is a matter of opinion, but IMHO I see the patent holders winning. Two companies damaged. I see the customers (you and me) losing, and I see a chance for NMN to take market share if the litigation continues to drain these companies dry.

 

As the story goes, Elysium Health, Inc placed a massive order of Niagen with ChromaDex. When it was delivered Elysium Health withheld payment and tried to renegotiate their purchase contract thinking they had ChromaDex over a barrel. From what I've read that invoice was never paid and currently, ChromaDex is carrying this forward as a loss. According to a document on Chromadex’s website (Item 8.01 Other Events.), dated December 29, 2016, Elysium “made false promises and representations to induce ChromaDex into providing large supplies of pTeroPure and NIAGEN.” http://investors.chr...kUmc3Vic2lkPTU3

 

In short, ChromaDex was dealt some cash flow problems which influenced the creation of a new sales channel to replace their largest customer  Elysium Health.

 

Then as the litigation papers indicate intellectual properties and employees were stolen from ChromaDex and mysteriously ended up at Elysium Health. From previous orders, ChromaDex knew approximately when Elysium Health would use up the products they shipped them. ChromaDex   had been testing samples and discovered Elysium Health began selling a product they had not manufactured. From this ChromaDex learned, Elysium Health had set up their own NR production facility based on the intellectual properties allegedly stolen. 

 

I don't want to create a long laundry list of links to the claims but in a 7000-word analysis with both sides represented you should read the Legal analysis; https://www.right-of...ation-Explained

 

Public calims:

http://www.thedartmo...ngement-lawsuit

Public calims:

https://www.prnewswi...-300715381.html

 

Next, we have the other element I alluded to, ChromaDex absorbed Tru Niagen. In hindsight, Tru Niagen was eventually to become their main distribution center. This may or may not have been their plan but this came to be. As time passed, vendor contracts were not renewed. This set the stage for what we see today where price competition has been vanquished. Bottom line Chromadex decided to stem the competitive price erosion between vendors and took action to stem profit losses which is where the customers got the squeeze with the price hikes we've seen.

 

Which side of the equation did our group buys occupy? Well, I'm sad to say while we helped Chromadex to grow, we also helped the price to erode with our buying power and continual spotlight on deals. So we haven't gotten preferential treatment, in fact, we're pretty low on the ladder. So you can take it personally or not. As you take in the whole case and look at each side, what's happening is a battle for the control of the NR market. 

 

My opinion is if they can't get their act together we need a trusted β-Nicotinamide mononucleotide supplier. So far I only see one in Japan under the name Shinkowa Pharmaceutical. 

 

https://globenewswir...ium-Health.html

IRVINE, Calif., Sept. 18, 2018 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- ChromaDex Corp. (NASDAQ:CDXC), an integrated, science-based, nutraceutical company devoted to improving the way people age with its flagship ingredient NIAGEN® and consumer product TRU NIAGEN®, announced today that ChromaDex, Inc., and Trustees of Dartmouth College filed a patent infringement complaint in the United States District Court for the District of Delaware against Elysium Health, Inc. (“Elysium”). The complaint alleges that Elysium’s BASIS® dietary supplement violates patents that cover compositions containing isolated nicotinamide riboside (“NR”) held by Dartmouth and licensed exclusively to ChromaDex.

 

JMHO

 

Bryan

 

 

[MikeDC]

This is good material for a movie. Elysium has committed criminal activities. ChromaDex should refer it to prosecutors.

[me2]

Thanks Bryan, for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive update.   What a tangled web!  And doesn't seem likely to end any time soon.  But if a group buy opportunity should become available, count me in.

[bluemoon]

  so they cut off nearly everyone else. Why these guys have it, I have no idea. Overall, seems like Chromadex is shooting themselves in the proverbial foot doing this, but what do I know(!)

 

I'm pretty sure Chromadex has cut off everyone so either this brand is about over or they are going the Elysium route. I don't see how the price is lower than TruNiagen, though.

[bluemoon]

 

Much of what's going on stems from the Elysium-ChromaDex Litigation. See https://www.right-of-assembly.org

for a complete blow by blow account.

 

OK here is what happened in a concise article which gives you a taste; https://techcrunch.c...h-of-agreement/

 

 

First, I think the article is wrong stating that Elysium is still using NR from Chromadex since that large amount would have run out a long time ago. It must have been a stalling technique.

 

The legal blogger is invested in Chromadex so that likely biases his views, although by how much is unknown. He has, however, admitted a few times that a decision he was sure would be against Elysium when instead a judge ruled in their favor. The latest is that Chromadex may be in trouble if it is true that they lied about previous products (pterostilbine) not containing toulene when they did. 

 

Elysim's Leonard Guarente said in July 2017 that Elysium was testing other compounds, which I assume includes NMN, but I haven't seen an update. I think that in a year Sinclair will be selling a type of NMN if he can get a patent on somehow tweaking it or by adding resveratrol - if that can be considered patentable.

 

I expect Elysium to be around and competing with Sinclair Co. and Chromadex and prices should come down but haven't yet with Elysium v. Chromadex v. NMN vendors.

[Bryan_S]

First, I think the article is wrong stating that Elysium is still using NR from Chromadex since that large amount would have run out a long time ago. It must have been a stalling technique.

 

The legal blogger is invested in Chromadex so that likely biases his views, although by how much is unknown. He has, however, admitted a few times that a decision he was sure would be against Elysium when instead a judge ruled in their favor. The latest is that Chromadex may be in trouble if it is true that they lied about previous products (pterostilbine) not containing toulene when they did. 

 

Elysim's Leonard Guarente said in July 2017 that Elysium was testing other compounds, which I assume includes NMN, but I haven't seen an update. I think that in a year Sinclair will be selling a type of NMN if he can get a patent on somehow tweaking it or by adding resveratrol - if that can be considered patentable.

 

I expect Elysium to be around and competing with Sinclair Co. and Chromadex and prices should come down but haven't yet with Elysium v. Chromadex v. NMN vendors.

 

bluemoon, good to see you're still reviewing the NR progress.

 

I'm keeping my post as strictly opinion, you can interpret the articles and legal analysis and motives any way you want. Bottom line is this has become a battle over who has the right to manufacture and sell NR.

 

I don't see any immediate winners here, however, I do see the patent holders likely prevailing in the end with customers getting screwed footing the bill thru inflated product prices.

 

As far as I'm concerned it was Brenner who tied all the research together thru Dartmouth and set the stage. What we've seen is a lot of people sit at his dinner table who helped promote this to product status. ChromaDex had the motivation to become the manufacturer. HPN, for instance, helped promote NR and was one of ChromaDex's first adopters. All that initial goodwill investment to build this market and vendor base has evaporated because one of ChromaDex's largest vendors got greedy and wanted the whole ball of wax. Only time will tell which of these sides prevails and if the Dartmouth patents will hold.

 

If the Dartmouth patents are defeated then anything could happen.

 

The only viable competition from a chemical standpoint is on the NMN side. Here I'd like to see GRAS status and a US or European manufacture step up and offer a verifiable certified purity. What I don't want is a Chinese knockoff, I simply don't trust their standards.  Right now Japan's Shinkowa Pharmaceutical prices are unreasonable.

 

So when the smoke clears maybe we'll be left with 2 competing products? The only way we'll get reasonable prices again is product competition.

 

As always JMHO

 

Bryan

Edited by Bryan_S, 26 November 2018 - 06:05 PM.

[Heisok]

Hi Bryan, since you have mentioned NMN a couple times in your recent posts, could you clarify some? Are you doubtful about the purity of Alive By Natures NMN or the price? Hopefully not the first as they have each batch tested with coa shared.

[bluemoon]

bluemoon, good to see you're still reviewing the NR progress.

 

I'm keeping my post as strictly opinion, you can interpret the articles and legal analysis and motives any way you want. Bottom line is this has become a battle over who has the right to manufacture and sell NR.

 

I don't see any immediate winners here, however, I do see the patent holders likely prevailing in the end with customers getting screwed footing the bill thru inflated product prices.

 

As far as I'm concerned it was Brenner who tied all the research together thru Dartmouth and set the stage. What we've seen is a lot of people sit at his dinner table who helped promote this to product status. ChromaDex had the motivation to become the manufacturer. HPN, for instance, helped promote NR and was one of ChromaDex's first adopters. All that initial goodwill investment to build this market and vendor base has evaporated because one of ChromaDex's largest vendors got greedy and wanted the whole ball of wax. Only time will tell which of these sides prevails and if the Dartmouth patents will hold.

 

If the Dartmouth patents are defeated then anything could happen.

 

The only viable competition from a chemical standpoint is on the NMN side. Here I'd like to see GRAS status and a US or European manufacture step up and offer a verifiable certified purity. What I don't want is a Chinese knockoff, I simply don't trust their standards.  Right now Japan's Shinkowa Pharmaceutical prices are unreasonable.

 

So when the smoke clears maybe we'll be left with 2 competing products? The only way we'll get reasonable prices again is product competition.

 

As always JMHO

 

Bryan

 

Hi Bryan, Thanks for inspiring me to read Molecular Biology for Dummies!

 

I'm not sure Chromodex's patents will hold. I'm not sure Elysium played much of a roll in Chromadexs decision to become a retailer instead of a wholesaler although may have sped up the process by a year. 

 

One wild card among a few is if Sinclair getting a patent on something NMN related. Would that necessarily kick NMN vendors off the market? Does anyone know how that would work? 

 

Japan follows U.S. patent laws so how is Shinkowa allowed to sell NR?

 

We currently have NR/NMN competition among TuNiagen, Elysium and AliveByNature with the latter somewhat more expensive than NR. It looks like for now the floor price is $35/month at 250 mg a day.

 

By the way, I'm curious how Chromadex reports NAD+ levels at a steady high at 1,000 mg a day for 8 weeks but the U of Colorado shows a 60% boost after 6 weeks. Maybe this isn't a contradiction, but it looks like it based on Chromadex's graph.  We know through Elysium's trial that 500 mg boosted NAD+ levels by 90% after 4 weeks but was down to a 55% increase after 8 weeks - not much higher than the steady 40% increase of 250 mg after 8 weeks. What am I not getting here?

[Bryan_S]

Hi Bryan, since you have mentioned NMN a couple times in your recent posts, could you clarify some? Are you doubtful about the purity of Alive By Natures NMN or the price? Hopefully not the first as they have each batch tested with coa shared.

 

I've read their COA, it still doesn't tell me where this product originated, it also doesn't tell me all of what else I might be taking. They only ran tests for: Link. 4-Intertek-test-report-dec2017-585x800.png

 

https://www.epa.gov/..._toxfaqs_3v.pdf

https://www.epa.gov/...m-compounds.pdf

https://www.cdc.gov/.../tips/water.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/..._FactSheet.html

So I give them credit for covering some of the major concerns.

 

Is there a trusted manufacturer involved who can stand by this product if it makes me sick? I can't tell you. Is there source any better than any of these: https://www.alibaba....nucleotide.html

 

You see my dilemma, which of these Chinese manufacturers would you endorse? So I can't give you that which alivebynature.com doesn't share. If it was a known and respected manufacturer it would be incorporated into their marketing. Since it isn't I'd say either they make it themselves or buy it from China. So many of the listed Alibaba suppliers "could" sell me the same product without the markup, correct? So if this is the case there is no way they will reveal the manufacturer. So I can't offer an opinion other than say; have Alivebynature, Inc tell us which manufacturer made this so we can vet that manufacturer and the safety of their process.

 

 

Who are the NMN vendors?

Do any of them have a listed manufacturer? This is the only one I've found who will stand by their products safety Shinkowa Pharmaceutical

This brings up a good point, has anyone of us researched this and run tests on the Alibaba suppliers?

What is the price tag for a full COA workup?

 

Just exploring ideas but there are enough of us with interest to make these things happen if a trusted manufacturer can be found.

 

Always JMHO

Bryan

[MikeDC]

I don’t think the NMN from alivebynature is legit. The NMN from Japan is extremely expensive. This new NMN supplier from Hong Kong is also expensive, $191 per month at 250mg per day.

https://www.genenmn....roduct/nmn9000/

Edited by MikeDC, 26 November 2018 - 09:13 PM.

[Bryan_S]

Hi Bryan, Thanks for inspiring me to read Molecular Biology for Dummies!

 

I'm not sure Chromodex's patents will hold. I'm not sure Elysium played much of a roll in Chromadexs decision to become a retailer instead of a wholesaler although may have sped up the process by a year. 

 

One wild card among a few is if Sinclair getting a patent on something NMN related. Would that necessarily kick NMN vendors off the market? Does anyone know how that would work? 

 

Japan follows U.S. patent laws so how is Shinkowa allowed to sell NR?

 

We currently have NR/NMN competition among TuNiagen, Elysium and AliveByNature with the latter somewhat more expensive than NR. It looks like for now the floor price is $35/month at 250 mg a day.

 

By the way, I'm curious how Chromadex reports NAD+ levels at a steady high at 1,000 mg a day for 8 weeks but the U of Colorado shows a 60% boost after 6 weeks. Maybe this isn't a contradiction, but it looks like it based on Chromadex's graph.  We know through Elysium's trial that 500 mg boosted NAD+ levels by 90% after 4 weeks but was down to a 55% increase after 8 weeks - not much higher than the steady 40% increase of 250 mg after 8 weeks. What am I not getting here?

 

The legal blogger stated ChromaDex may have been planning to cut them out. So you can cut that question both ways. In the end was Elysium health justified legally in setting up their own NR manufacturing? I can't tell you.

 

Good questions about Japan but the threshold to sell nutritional products in the US is frightfully low.

 

Who owns the NMN patents?

 

As far as I've seen, since ChromaDex raised the price all competitors are also asking for top dollar. Correct?

 

I'm not prepared to compare ChromaDex and Basis studies in a quick response without taking an afternoon to break them down and find the commonalities.

 

Bryan

[Bryan_S]

I don’t think the NMN from alivebynature is legit. The NMN from Japan is extremely expensive. This new NMN supplier from Hong Kong is also expensive, $191 per month at 250mg per day.

https://www.genenmn....roduct/nmn9000/

 

https://www.amazon.c...s/dp/B079S3XF4H

 

This might be GeneNMN on Amazon, I'm not completely sure. It doesn't give me anything direct but name.

 

 

Bryan

[able]

Do you guys really think that  Chromadex has not bothered to have the ABN stuff tested?  

 

I don't know how this works, but if it was unsafe, wouldn't they just send the results to some of their friends to spread the word here on this forum, and to the FDA to have them shut down?  

[StanG]

Thorne sells NiaCel-250 which has 250mg of NR Chloride. I've never heard of this form and it doesn't appear that this contains 250mg of NR. Any thoughts on this. I need to buy more 250mg of Naigen and want to get good quality at the best price.