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Green tea extract and liver consequences.

green tea liver failure

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#1 montana2012

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 10:22 PM


I bought myself 100 grams of green tea extract (45% EGCG) about a week ago and have been taking it in fairly large doses(2-3 grams/day, maybe even more) eversince. As I'm typing right now I am experiencing a  massive, stabbing pain in my liver, did a google search and who would've thought:

 

Christopher, a high school student from Katy, Tex., suffered severe liver damage after using a concentrated green tea extract he bought at a nutrition store as a “fat burning” supplement. The damage was so extensive that he was put on the waiting list for a liver transplant.

“It was terrifying,” he said in an interview.

 

Has anyone else had such problems? I should inform myself better about the sides of "natural" products from now on. I truly hope I haven't done any long term damage to my liver, will do some bloodwork tomorrow and will do a followup.

 

 

 

 


Edited by montana2012, 05 October 2014 - 10:23 PM.


#2 chrisp2

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 11:03 PM

I've deliberately stayed away from some supplements that had EGCG in it because I already get the maximum dose I consider safe in LEF's multi.

 

EGCG is one supplement to be very careful with.


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#3 montana2012

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:14 AM

I went to the ER and the guy over there told me I'm alright and it's just panic and to go home, what an idiot.

Instead of going to the ER, I could've easily used the time to buy myself some NAC from the corner pharmacy and to boost liver glutathione earlier.

   Anyway, 3 hours after this "incident" I took 1.8 g NAC & 15g vitamin C, let's see what happens.  I will do bloodwork tomorrow morning. 

   Is it still going to work 3 hours after the poisoning?

 

     From now on, I will always keep NAC in storage in case of an emergency.

     

     Let this serve as an example to others.

                                                                       

                                                                                   \||||/

                                                                             Keep calm

                                                                                   and

                                                                      doctors are worthless


Edited by montana2012, 06 October 2014 - 01:22 AM.

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#4 niner

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:24 AM

If you have a physician, you could phone in, explain the situation, and ask for a prescription for a liver function test just to be on the safe side.  They're cheap and quick.  The NAC was a reasonable idea.  You probably ought to keep GTE down around a half gram a day or less.  I'm a little surprised that the ER doc didn't take it at all seriously.  If you wind up needing a transplant you should look him up.


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#5 montana2012

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 10:50 AM

Half an hour after the second post, I took another 1.2 g of NAC, 400 mcg selenium and went to bed. (since the NAC got me so relaxed). Unfortunately, I didn't go to test the liver, since I overslept the morning. Liver enzymes have to be tested before 10 am and on empty stomach, otherwise unreliable.

  None of my bodyparts appear yellow when in front of the mirror. I am worried liver scarring might have occured though, the pain is still noticeable. 

    Keep your fingers crossed.


Edited by montana2012, 06 October 2014 - 10:53 AM.

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#6 The_Next_LX

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:37 AM

I had been taking Green Tea (Life Extension) and Green Coffee supplements, 750 and 800mg capsules each, and then I happened to read a series of articles re LIVER PROBLEMS earlier in the year, and I thought, uh-oh, and stopped cold turkey.

 

 

 

 

http://www.shape.com...n-tea-bad-thing

 

 

When Green Tea Is a Bad Thing
 

green-tea-supplements-700.jpg?itok=_FEpj

 

 

 

Green tea has been linked to benefit after benefit after benefit, but new guidelines say—as with many things—more is not necessarily better.

The American College of Gastroenterology releasednew recommendations about green tea extract, a common ingredient in weight-loss pills, saying it can be toxic and cause liver failure. 

 

The culprit is a type of polyphenols called catechins. While catechins are antioxidants, it is possible to have too much of a good thing—and this one can be deadly. Catechins target mitochondria—the powerhouses of your cells—and prevent them from being able to help your body metabolize food and turn it into energy, which can lead to jaundice, hepatitis, or liver failure, says Herbert Bonkovsky, M.D., a gastroenterologist with the Carolinas HealthCare System and one of the authors of the study.

 

According to the National Institutes of Health, unregulated supplements now account for 20 percent of drug-related liver injuries. And it doesn't take too many pills to do damage, so Bonkovsky recommends completely avoiding supplements with green tea extract in them. If you have to take one, he says to limit it to no more than 500 milligrams (mg) catechins per day. This might be harder than it sounds, as some of the supplements the researchers tested had up to 700mg in one capsule and came with recommendations to take more several daily. 

 

"There isn't any need to take these supplements, and when you look at the actual scientific evidence, the benefits of green tea are small to nil," Bonkovsky says. Plus, because supplements are unregulated, they don't always contain what the label claims. The researchers found that ayurvedic supplements were particularly dangerous, with 20 percent showing high levels of toxic metals.  

 

The guideline authors think there may be a genetic component that makes some people more susceptible to liver damage from catechins. The catch? You won't know if you're one of those people until you get sick, so it's best to just steer clear of green tea supplements. Bonkovsky also recommends drinking no more than three 8-ounce cups of green tea (about 150 to 450mg catechins total) per day.



#7 montana2012

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 02:53 AM

I downed another 1.8g of NAC today with yet more Se and vitamin C. There is still pain under my right rib. I haven't turned yellow though, and urine is light. There is no stomach hardness. Probably will do bloodwork tomorrow.

     I had no idea this thing could be so brutal. Doses were huge however.

 

Stay safe.


Edited by montana2012, 07 October 2014 - 02:54 AM.


#8 Luminosity

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 05:18 AM

A lot of weight loss supplements are dangerous.  Why were you taking that?  You don't look overweight.  



#9 chrisp2

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 11:22 AM

Would a lot of fluids (water) help ?



#10 Kalliste

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 01:50 PM

Always do homework before starting something new. Might wanna have this examined further, sounds like the ER guy did not take this seriously.

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 07 October 2014 - 01:50 PM.


#11 montana2012

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 08:10 PM

It's been 3 days now, and my liver still hurts. I feel tired as well.

 

It's definitely damaged.

 

 

A lot of weight loss supplements are dangerous.  Why were you taking that?  You don't look overweight.  

I took it for energy, didn't care about fat burning.

 

How likely is it that I'll regrow itself without complications?

 

I'm scared that I might not be able to run again in my life.

 

Best,

Steve



#12 Luminosity

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 04:41 AM

Even natural energy supplements can  be dangerous, especially if they are stimulant-based.  My best advice to you right now is to seek out a good acupuncturist/Chinese herbalist and let them fix this.  You can find out how to find a good one on my thread below, as well as how to live and eat in accordance with Chinese Medicine.  In addition to this, you'd want to avoid anything that could make this worse, such as bad habits, extreme or punitive regimens, recreational drugs, tobacco use, alcohol (for now), excess caffeine, any sodas, junk food or fried food, toxins, etc.  Take good care of yourself.  My thread can tell you some other things that are bad that you might not realize.    Be aware of impulsively taking home cures or natural cures for this; if you guess wrong, that can go badly.  Be aware that some prescription drugs or Western medical interventions might make this worse, such as if you impulsively decide to start taking unnecessary medication right now, like you suddenly decide you need to take a sleeping pill or anti-depressant you didn't need before or a weight loss drug, or decide to undergo an MRI or CAT Scan to look at your liver where you ingest radioactive dye.  These could potentially set you off on a downward spiral if they strain your liver further, which they might.  I'd go with my plan if I were you.

 

http://www.longecity...inese-medicine/


Edited by Luminosity, 08 October 2014 - 04:43 AM.

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#13 Kalliste

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 04:54 AM

Keep us update Montana. I still think you should contact the healthcare again, go see a hepatologist for gods sake.



#14 Adaptogen

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 04:59 AM

I wonder if there is a tolerance built up to egcg, in regular tea drinkers.  I've never heard of any documented evidence that tea itself can cause liver damage, despite the fact that there are likely tens of thousands of people in the world consuming many many pots of strong sencha a day.

this may have something to do with the egcg being diluted in water, or the fact that.teas high in catechins are traditionally consumed with food, to prevent nausea and stomach discomfort.



#15 blood

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 05:25 AM

Can we actually feel our liver hurting, when it is 'poorly'? Does the liver even have it's own pain-sensing nerves?

A pain in the abdomen could mean anything...



#16 pamojja

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 05:49 AM

Can we actually feel our liver hurting, when it is 'poorly'? Does the liver even have it's own pain-sensing nerves?

 

I had this notion too, that a liver can't feel hurt. But then I had a fatty liver diagnosed by sonography, with a suspected ameobic hepatitis in 1999 in India - that after 7 Malaria attacks within 5 years and their treatments. And in that time my liver - just below the right ribcage - did hurt upon eating anything with fat, like curd, or drinking coffee. The in india widely available black tea didn't though. This situational liver pain resolved after a course of Ayurvedic Liv.52.



#17 Kalliste

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 08:27 AM

I wonder if there is a tolerance built up to egcg, in regular tea drinkers.  I've never heard of any documented evidence that tea itself can cause liver damage, despite the fact that there are likely tens of thousands of people in the world consuming many many pots of strong sencha a day.

this may have something to do with the egcg being diluted in water, or the fact that.teas high in catechins are traditionally consumed with food, to prevent nausea and stomach discomfort.

 

Most likely it's close to impossible to overdose on regular tea. The simplest explanation is that you would have to drink copious amounts of it to come close to the levels of EGEC in these pills. Secondly these pills often contain other toxic chemicals that were left in them when the cheap Chinese manufacturer made them, that may or may not create a negative synergy.

My personal suspicion is that there are other compounds present in tea-leaves that provide a protective effect. I'm sure that Green Tea has a multifactorial component that is poorly understood at this time.


Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 08 October 2014 - 08:29 AM.

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#18 Adaptogen

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 08:46 AM

 

I wonder if there is a tolerance built up to egcg, in regular tea drinkers.  I've never heard of any documented evidence that tea itself can cause liver damage, despite the fact that there are likely tens of thousands of people in the world consuming many many pots of strong sencha a day.

this may have something to do with the egcg being diluted in water, or the fact that.teas high in catechins are traditionally consumed with food, to prevent nausea and stomach discomfort.

 

Most likely it's close to impossible to overdose on regular tea. The simplest explanation is that you would have to drink copious amounts of it to come close to the levels of EGEC in these pills. Secondly these pills often contain other toxic chemicals that may or may not create a negative synergy.

My personal suspicion is that there are other compounds present in tea-leaves that provide a protective effect. I'm sure that Green Tea has a multifactorial component that is poorly understood at this time.

 

i don't think it's really that hard to reach 1000+ mg through drinking loose leaf tea. a cup of high quality sencha is estimated to have around 150mg egcg..10-15 cups in a day isn't all that much in heavy tea drinking cultures

 



#19 Kalliste

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 12:05 PM

You never drink 15 cups in the same minute. That is crucial. 1 pill in one minute is easy though. If you down 15 beers one after another you might die from intoxication. Drink them strung out over an evening and you are just another drunken moran. Dose AND time is important.
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#20 Sasha_

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 01:39 PM

 

Can we actually feel our liver hurting, when it is 'poorly'? Does the liver even have it's own pain-sensing nerves?

 

I had this notion too, that a liver can't feel hurt. But then I had a fatty liver diagnosed by sonography, with a suspected ameobic hepatitis in 1999 in India - that after 7 Malaria attacks within 5 years and their treatments. And in that time my liver - just below the right ribcage - did hurt upon eating anything with fat, like curd, or drinking coffee. The in india widely available black tea didn't though. This situational liver pain resolved after a course of Ayurvedic Liv.52.

 

 I was under the same impression too, I have always been told you could only feel your liver hurting by a pain in your right shoulder area.

But I guess Pamojja's account is proving that wrong, unless a good amount of self-suggestion was at work. Just saying that cause I sometimes experienced such pain and heat in the region of where I believe my liver to be when taking Adrafinil, yet I have never felt such pain after a heavy drinking night.



#21 montana2012

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 03:50 PM

UPDATE:

 

Bloodwork came out and results are as follows: 

 

Total protein:74.50 g/l :::::::Upper limit males 87.00g/l

Albumin:50.00 g/l ::::::::::::::Upper limit males 52.00g/l

ASAT:24.10 U/l :::::::::::::::::Upper limit males 40.00U/l

ALAT:33.40 U/I :::::::::::::::::Upper limit males 41.00U/

Gamma GT:36.00 :::::::::::::Upper limit males 60.00U/

 

So it all looks normal, but I don't feel on the safe side. Why?

 

Stool has this weird light color. I feel very tired and belly, liver hurt.

 

Last night I woke up to go urinate and all of a sudden I was about to black out. Picture became pitch black and I had to sit down immediately, in order not to pass out.

 

This has never happened to me before.

That was definitely my liver at play. I don't have a medical education, but my guess is the liver couldn't deal with blood flowing in all of a sudden.

 

 

Can we actually feel our liver hurting, when it is 'poorly'? Does the liver even have it's own pain-sensing nerves?

 

I had this notion too, that a liver can't feel hurt. But then I had a fatty liver diagnosed by sonography, with a suspected ameobic hepatitis in 1999 in India - that after 7 Malaria attacks within 5 years and their treatments. And in that time my liver - just below the right ribcage - did hurt upon eating anything with fat, like curd, or drinking coffee. The in india widely available black tea didn't though. This situational liver pain resolved after a course of Ayurvedic Liv.52.

 

Not only can it hurt under the right rib. I learned lately that the WHOLE thing can hurt under the ribcage and chest. 

   I've even felt mild pain when taking too much MCT oil, however it subsided after taking ALCAR.

 

By the way,  I don't drink alcohol and haven't done so in 2 years if anyone of you is wondering.

 

The funny thing is I've taken valproic acid (considered pretty toxic) nad never experienced such discomfort.

 

Cosmicalstorm is right. This is about taking large dose of EGCG in a short interval of time. You don't space  out dosing, like when you do drinking the thing.

 

Best,

Steve


Edited by montana2012, 08 October 2014 - 04:24 PM.


#22 Kalliste

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 05:01 PM

Toss some C60 into the mix. Liver protection was one thing it nailed good IIRC.

#23 montana2012

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 05:46 PM

Toss some C60 into the mix. Liver protection was one thing it nailed good IIRC.

I still can't figure out how to mix it. 

 

I've got 400mg on me, made myself a DIY magnetic stirrer from a hdd REE magnet and an old processor fan. 

 The only problem is the spinbar.

I found it on eBay, but I don't feel like waiting for it. How much of a problem is it if I just put stainless steel piece in it? Will it react with the fullerene? Oxidize? Does it have to be coated on PTFE?

 

 

Best,

Steve


Edited by montana2012, 08 October 2014 - 05:54 PM.


#24 Kalliste

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 08:07 PM

There is a thread for that. I think you can just mix it without any high tech gear.
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#25 niner

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 02:40 AM

I've got 400mg on me, made myself a DIY magnetic stirrer from a hdd REE magnet and an old processor fan. 
 The only problem is the spinbar.
I found it on eBay, but I don't feel like waiting for it. How much of a problem is it if I just put stainless steel piece in it? Will it react with the fullerene? Oxidize? Does it have to be coated on PTFE?


Most stainless isn't magnetic. The fastest way to make it is to crush the c60 crystals first. A mortar and pestle is the tool to use if you have one, but you can also crush them between two spoons. Mix it with olive oil, and shake the bottle a couple times a day. It will probably be significantly reacted in only a couple days. You could also order it from carbon60oliveoil.com; that will probably take a few days also, but will be ready to use when it gets there. If you make it, you could pour some off the top, instead of filtering. I've done it without filtering in the past. I didn't have a problem. Macroscopic particles just pass through the digestive tract.

Considering the results of your liver function test, I think you might have something else going on. Maybe an infection?

#26 montana2012

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 07:18 AM

 

I've got 400mg on me, made myself a DIY magnetic stirrer from a hdd REE magnet and an old processor fan. 
 The only problem is the spinbar.
I found it on eBay, but I don't feel like waiting for it. How much of a problem is it if I just put stainless steel piece in it? Will it react with the fullerene? Oxidize? Does it have to be coated on PTFE?


Most stainless isn't magnetic. The fastest way to make it is to crush the c60 crystals first. A mortar and pestle is the tool to use if you have one, but you can also crush them between two spoons. Mix it with olive oil, and shake the bottle a couple times a day. It will probably be significantly reacted in only a couple days. You could also order it from carbon60oliveoil.com; that will probably take a few days also, but will be ready to use when it gets there. If you make it, you could pour some off the top, instead of filtering. I've done it without filtering in the past. I didn't have a problem. Macroscopic particles just pass through the digestive tract.

Considering the results of your liver function test, I think you might have something else going on. Maybe an infection?

 

Shake it a couple times a day?

 

The guys in the original study magnet-stirred it for 2 weeks straight and then filtered it with 22 micrometer filter. My bet is this thing is not easy to dissolve fully. I remember reading somewhere, that if clumped, it's toxic, could be wrong.

 

I tried with stainless steel and it was definitely working. My worry is that the acids in the olive oil might react with the steel, stainless or not.

 

I should've studied more chemistry back in the days.

 

The gear from carbon60olive oil is $21 for 16 mg. My 400mg of C60 cost me $20. You do the math.

 

Best,

Steve



#27 Kalliste

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 07:51 AM

The study had to do a lot of things to avoid being dismissed as not being rigorous. You likely don't need to do that. Please read the C60 forum before you reinvent the wheel.


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#28 montana2012

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 04:31 PM

I ordered my C60 from this guy. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item1e916c1143

 

Does it look legit to you? Safe for ingestion. He offered no 3rd party CoA.

 

Already asked in C60 thread as well.(which one is the main one?)

 

Best,

Steve



#29 StephCThomp

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 06:16 AM

Consider adding Milk Thistle to your protection/recovery mix:

http://umm.edu/healt...rb/milk-thistle

As with anything, don't go crazy with it.

Edited by Finley, 12 October 2014 - 06:16 AM.


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#30 Kalliste

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 03:28 PM

 

Human case-studies have reported an association between green tea-based dietary supplements and hepatotoxicity. Studies have demonstrated the hepatotoxicity of high-dose oral bolus dosing with the tea polyphenol (−)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG) in mice and dogs. We examined the effect of pretreatment with dietary EGCG on the hepatotoxicity and bioavailability of acute oral bolus dosing with EGCG in CF-1 mice. EGCG (750 mg/kg, i.g., once daily for 3 days) increased plasma alanine aminotransferase by 80-fold, decreased both reduced (by 59%) and total (by 33%) hepatic glutathione, and increased hepatic levels of phosphorylated histone 2AX. Pretreatment with dietary EGCG (3.2 mg/g diet) for 2 weeks mitigated hepatotoxicity. Acute oral EGCG also decreased mRNA expression of glutathione reductase. Dietary pretreatment prevented these decreased and increased glutathione peroxidase (Gpx)2, Gpx3, Gpx5, and Gpx7 expression. We found that dietary EGCG reduced the plasma (57% reduction) and hepatic (71% reduction) EGCG exposure following oral bolus dosing compared to mice that were not pre-treated. Overall, it appears that EGCG can modulate its own bioavailability and that dietary treatment may reduce the toxic potential of acute high oral bolus doses of EGCG. These data may partly explain the observed variation in hepatotoxic response to green tea-containing dietary supplements.

 

Green tea can modify it's own bioavailability :)

 

http://www.sciencedi...278691514005171


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