25 replies to this topic

[Mr Serendipity]

Ok, here's my story, and I'm hoping I'm not jumping the gun on this one, but it is very exciting.

 

So I decided to pull an all nighter from the 16-17th of October to help me re-adjust my sleeping pattern. To do this I drank 2 Rockstar Energy Drinks, which is roughly 320mg of Caffeine. I sort of succeeded because even though I crashed and had a 6 hour nap from 12-6pm on the 17th; today on the 18th I woke up at 5:30am which means it was a success! However I did have to use tryptophan and magnesium to help me fall asleep again because that 6 hour nap was really refreshing. So anyway I feel like I've successfully readjusted my sleeping pattern.

 

Now what happened during the early morn of the 17th, was simply amazing. Caffeine has always sucked for me. Completely sucked. I mean, I've tried it with theanine, and then by it's own. In coffee, or energy drinks, or tea. I've tried to recreate the nootropic effect others have, whether it be focus or motivation, and haven't succeeded. What happens instead, is I get a range of negative effects of caffeine, which are:

 

1. Caffeine gives me brain fog, and a spaced out feeling.

 

2. Caffeine stays in my system for a loooong time. For example, I would be scared of drinking it any time other than right in the morning when I wake up, because I would get major insomnia. In fact, the reason I had to readjust my sleeping pattern, is because I ate a lot of dark chocolate before bed a few weeks back (forgetting dark chocolate has a high caffeine content), which resulted with bad insomnia.

 

3. Caffeine can give me major nausea (though I think this is mainly from coffee only). I don't get nausea from anything. But coffee especially can give me it.

 

So I pretty much avoid caffeine.

 

So recently I've been experimenting with high/mega doses of vitamin C. I've been taking some 1g tablets many times throughout the day. I'm not really following any sort of regime. However 2g every few hours seems to be what I've settled for. These tablets contain 1g of vitamin c, and 500mg bioflavanoids.

 

Anyway I was taking these when doing the all nighter. I also had drank 2 energy drinks energy drinks which contained roughly 320mg. What happened next was nothing short of amazing. I decided to go for a jog at 5am. And when I went for a jog, I didn't end up jogging, I was sprinting, and enjoying it. It was super easy for me to push myself to the limit, and I felt really happy and positive. I also felt really healthy and fit, like I could breath better, and my circulation was much better. Obviously high on adrenaline.

 

Then when I got home. I started doing loads of research on vitamin c. My mind was sharp, clear, and awake. I started emailing my friend about different health things we talk about, this time mainly about vitamin c, my experiences with it recently, and it's research. And I was writing at a super speed with hardly any mistakes. I sent him a looooong email. Then continuing my research, I sent him another two! Then I think either the caffeine was wearing off, or I was on a come down (though I didn't feel like it), and then I got a bit more normal. However remember I was pulling an all nighter.

 

However for at least I'd say, within a 5 hour span, I experienced the power of caffeine on enhancing my motivation, fitness level, mood, and clarity of mind! And all without a comedown or crash. It was amazing.

 

Oh and after I fell asleep during the day, I was pretty damn refreshed from that 6 hour nap, hence why I needed to take tryptophan and magnesium last night to force myself asleep again. (The original goal was to stay up until 7pm, but I didn't make it that far).

 

Right now I really need some caffeine. Because of last nights tryptophan and magnesium to force myself asleep, my mind is not clear, I keep making mistakes and rewriting, and I have no energy. However this was to be expected as I am making major adjustments to my sleeping pattern in a short time.

 

I must note I did have a negative side effect, which I do get with caffeine even without the vitamin c. And that is, I get pissed off much more easily. Like I was talking to another friend on instant messaging at 8am, and he said some things that pissed me off, basically acting like a troll/being a dick. However that's his personality sometimes, and usually it doesn't bother me much. But with caffeine, my tolerance to people who are messing around is lowered considerably. Just like anyone who's having a bad day or is highly stressed and they can't put up with people messing around, too much caffeine does the same for me. Infact it can put me in a really negative mood/thoughts of that other person.

 

Anyway that's pretty much it. I think the shop might have opened now (7:30am) and I'll see if I can get a rockstar down me now before it too late and effects my sleep. At the moment I'm a bit sleepy still, but that's to be expected. But tomorrow morning, after having woken up at 4:30-5am. Get 2-3g of Vitamin C down me, and a rockstar (which I'll buy in advance so I have it next morning). Then wait 30 mins, and then go for a jog. Will be what I'm really looking forward to testing.

 

So basically if your caffeine sensitive, and want to experiment with caffeine again. Try taking megadoses of vitamin c throughout the day.

 

I pretty much guess it's something about the vitamin c helping my adrenal glands and cortisol levels  a lot.

 

All thoughts and discussion are welcome.

[LDK]

First of all, caffeine works on the adenosine receptors, as an antagonist. This means it surpasses the feedback loop for release the neurotransmitters, what Vitamin C is changing in your experience while jogging could be that it in some way enhances Nitric Oxide production in your bloodstream and Vitamin C is also proven to support neurotransmitters (antidepressant) and neuroprotective. Also the flavonoids in the Vit C pill can enhance blood flow and have effects on neurotransmitters however the last are debated because of the low bio-availability and if it will pass past the blood-brain barrier... Some studies say MOA-inhibition does not occur with kaempferol or quercetin for example.

 

Anyway to continue on your experience, it seems that during the stress that jogging and coffee induces, there is an even stronger release of serotonin which induces cortisol and adrenaline resulting in the massive energy boost you experienced.

When you feel on top of the world, it is always a result from neurons going overdrive, the neurotranmitters get released and used up at high rate. When stores get depleted so does your mood. Especially when you're lacking serotonin stores you can feel quite edgy and easily pissed off.

 

Remember getting all stores loaded and a good nights rest will eventually make you feel like a child again they also don't need coffee to feel energetic.

Oh and something about high dosing Vitamin C, it seems counter productive on training adaptability, study is here: http://ajcn.nutritio...t/87/1/142.full

However, Epicatechin from raw cocoa beans will enhance this adaptive response on mitochondria biosynthesis and increases mitrochondria energy producing efficiancy by increasing the cristae inside the mitochondrium.

Also, omega 3 fatty acids enhance mitochondria function.

 

[nightlight]

Yep, I have noticed the same synergy between caffeine and high dose Vitamin C. The most energizing combination I have found via self-experimentation with various forms of both components is the Liposomal Vitamin C (users experiences) and a black tea. Check also a recent review paper on effects of ascorbates on brain, especially on boosting norepinephrine levels.

[Area-1255]

Vitamin C also increases dopamine beta hydroxylase - which helps convert dopamine into norepinephrine, this essentially can help stimulant addiction - but over time, chronic vitamin  c dosing can destroy copper, and then cause a dopamine beta hydroxylase deficiency, so moderate levels of vitamin c, with a little copper, and more zinc than copper would be ideal.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3614808/

[Mr Serendipity]

Great information guys.

 

Nightlight, that research paper is amazing, even though I knew it was having some sort of effect in my brain, you've now given me a study to show how it works.

 

Also could you explain a bit more about your combination of liposomal vit c and black tea? Are you saying, out of all the things you've tried, this is your best combo for energy? Also are the effects consistent with the combo? And what are the benefits exactly? Other than energy, do you get a clearer mind, better mood?

 

Also Area I don't believe Vitamin C can cause copper deficiency. From what I read, it's one of the many negative claims of vitamin c without scientific research. For example ascorbic acid causes kidney stones is without credence too.

 

Here's a discussion here:

 

http://www.vitamincf...php?f=3&t=11450

 

There's was also a study where vitamin c was take daily at 10g doses for 3 years to show it's safety. I'm sure copper deficiency would have appeared in those individuals if it was true. [J American College Nutrition 14:124-36, 1995]

Edited by manny, 19 October 2014 - 10:34 PM.

[nightlight]

Also could you explain a bit more about your combination of liposomal vit c and black tea? Are you saying, out of all the things you've tried, this is your best combo for energy? Also are the effects consistent with the combo? And what are the benefits exactly? Other than energy, do you get a clearer mind, better mood?

 

My main formula is 1/2 oz of Liposomal C (that yields 1g sodium ascorbate, 1g sunflower lecithin) on empty stomach, followed by a cup of strong black tea (with few drops of lemon) which I sip while working on computer (I work from home office). I take that 5-6 times per day. Within ~10 min of taking Liposomal C there is a sense of well being (that's how most other users describe it, too), flowing from the top of my head and cascading down through the body. Unlike the overpowering rush from stimulants (like PEA or amphetamines), this a more subtle sensation that doesn't attract attention to itself and one can easily miss it while being busy with work. Yet if one is sitting down and relaxing, the sensation is unmistakeable and it doesn't seem to build tolerance. Experimenting with different caffeine sources (teas, coffee, caffeine pills), the above sensation is the strongest with the black tea followup, even though its not the most caffeine rich one.

 

Energy and readiness to get on with the tasks in front of me, and then stick with the job for hours, seems to be chiefly due to Liposomal C, while caffeine boosts alertness and mental agility. The 'sense of well being' provides an uplifting 'what a great day today' feeling, even when it is just gray and cloudy outside, with project deadlines looming. For the last year and half of using Liposomal C, it has replaced nearly my entire nootropic stack (I still take gingko biloba, 120 mg caps, 2x per day).

 

I also make couple more specialized Liposomal recipes which I take 1-2 times each per day. For cardiovascular formula, following Linus Pauling's favorite Vitamin C + Lysine combo, I use: 16 oz of distilled water + 32g lecithin + 24g Ascorbic Acid + 16g Lysine. For energy rush, mitochondria and thyroid-pineal recipe, I use: 16oz distilled water + 32g lecithin + 24g Acetyl-L-Carnitine + 16g Glutamine + 8 drops of Lugol's iodine + 1 drop of Methylene Blue.

[Area-1255]

Well Vitamin C might though to an extent antagonize overall activity of copper by initiating the same enzymes and causing less need for copper by a feedback loop....

I think the most prominent effects of vitamin C, specifically high dose, occur even more when you take high amounts of zinc with it, which is a known copper chelator/antagonist. I've done high dose vitamin C and zinc plus mag before, and my copper levels plummeted, in blood work and hair levels.

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3156342/

http://copperalliance.org/

http://en.wikipedia....opper_in_health

 

Vitamin C does have benefits upon nitric oxide, and it also may benefit the endocrine system by lowering cortisol and possibly estradiol to a slight degree, but it interferes with the absorption or can alter the absorption of many drugs of course.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....v/pubmed/173480

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11590482

 

 

[Mr Serendipity]

Ok guys. I woke up at 4:45am today. I drank 1 can, and another 1/2 can of rockstar an hour later. And also took 3g, then 3g, and then another 3g of vitamin c in roughly hour periods between 5am and 7am.

 

I can honestly say, it buffers the negative effects of caffeine to a large degree, and enhances it's positive effects. My mind feels clearer and more awake, though not as good as the last time I did this.

 

Now I should have went for a jog but didn't, so I can't tell you whether it had a positive effect on my performance or mood for jogging.

 

Note: The next paragraph discusses sexual implications of vitamin c and caffeine. So I've made it a spoiler for people who want to overlook this information.

 

Spoiler

However I can tell you it had a positive and negative effect on something else.

 

Instead of going for a jog this morning, I watched porn and did the dirty deed. Now too much caffeine is something that will kill my erection (because of too much adrenaline/vasoconstriction). Yet vitamin c buffered this negative effect to a large degree, and I achieved quite a good erection (though it would have been 30% better without any caffeine in my system). Also caffeine will give me premature ejaculation (because of the adrenalin), and vitamin c buffered this to a degree as well, although I couldn't last near as long as I usually do.

 

But I believe I have an addictive personality, as well as having mild OCD. And anything that raises my adrenaline/dopamine causes my sexual appetite to increase, and makes me endlessly flick through porn for a couple of hours. However I think once I lower my caffeine intake to the right amount (1 or 1/2 a can of rockstar), I'll be able to control this personality traits better.

 

And these traits I need to control, because doing that dirty deed has made me more sleepy and less clear in my thinking (even with all this caffeine in my system). So it counteracts to a large degree, the nootropic effects I want to procure with the vit c + caffeine combo. But even without the combo, the dirty deed effects my brain/energy performance for the rest of the day, making the whole day a drag and lacking motivation. That's why I made a rule to only do it at night.

 

However from these observations, I can see why the vitamin c + caffeine may enhance my performance when running. As vitamin c helps counteract the vasocontriction adrenaline causes, thus allowing a better circulation of adrenaline throughout the body.

 

I would also like to point out that for the high amount of caffeine in my body right now (1 and 1/2 cans of rockstar, roughly 240mg of caffeine), my body/mind is handling it very well. I can still feel I've taken wayyy too much caffeine for optimum performace. However this observation shows me how well my mind/body seems to be handling a caffeine overdose when taken along side with vitamin c. In general vitamin c considerably lowers the caffeine's negative side effects, and is causing me to stay much calmer than I should be. Right now I feel the heat/adrenaline rushing through my body in waves. The pissed off feeling, the lowered tolerance and patience, and me snapping, are just being kept beneath bay thanks to the vitamin c. However this wave feeling of frustration lurking just underneath my skin is not enjoyable; it's just not overcome me like it usually would with this much caffeine/adrenaline in my system, which is really impressive to see. And I'm not a guy prone to wrath or anger; I'm generally quite calm and laid back (but these traits change with large amounts of caffeine/adrenaline in my system).

 

Also I've never been addicted to caffeine. But I find I can easily take too much (like I did this morning), because of how easy it is to drink energy drinks. Really I need to replace my energy drink with a smaller can (red bull for example), or drink tea or coffee instead (though I'd prefer an energy drink).

 

I think today's observation showed me more of the massive effect of vitamin c's buffering capabilities of too much caffeine, than it did it's nootropic effect (which wasn't as good). One of the reason being, the last time I had a powerful nootropic effect, I had been dosing vitamin c throughout the day for much longer. I had also ingested the 2 rockstars 3-4 hours apart (remember I was trying to pull an all nighter). However this time I ingested the rockstars (1 and 1/2 cans) too close to each other, and had only been ingesting vitamin c since I awoke, which is only a 3 hour period.

 

Anyway they're my updates. Ingesting much smaller doses of caffeine, with high doses of vitamin c throughout the day is what I'll be looking forward to experiment with next.

[Area-1255]

Ok guys. I woke up at 4:45am today. I drank 1 can, and another 1/2 can of rockstar an hour later. And also took 3g, then 3g, and then another 3g of vitamin c in roughly hour periods between 5am and 7am.

 

I can honestly say, it buffers the negative effects of caffeine to a large degree, and enhances it's positive effects. My mind feels clearer and more awake, though not as good as the last time I did this.

 

Now I should have went for a jog but didn't, so I can't tell you whether it had a positive effect on my performance or mood for jogging.

 

Note: The next paragraph discusses sexual implications of vitamin c and caffeine. So I've made it a spoiler for people who want to overlook this information.

 

Spoiler

However I can tell you it had a positive and negative effect on something else.

 

Instead of going for a jog this morning, I watched porn and did the dirty deed. Now too much caffeine is something that will kill my erection (because of too much adrenaline/vasoconstriction). Yet vitamin c buffered this negative effect to a large degree, and I achieved quite a good erection (though it would have been 30% better without any caffeine in my system). Also caffeine will give me premature ejaculation (because of the adrenalin), and vitamin c buffered this to a degree as well, although I couldn't last near as long as I usually do.

 

But I believe I have an addictive personality, as well as having mild OCD. And anything that raises my adrenaline/dopamine causes my sexual appetite to increase, and makes me endlessly flick through porn for a couple of hours. However I think once I lower my caffeine intake to the right amount (1 or 1/2 a can of rockstar), I'll be able to control this personality traits better.

 

And these traits I need to control, because doing that dirty deed has made me more sleepy and less clear in my thinking (even with all this caffeine in my system). So it counteracts to a large degree, the nootropic effects I want to procure with the vit c + caffeine combo. But even without the combo, the dirty deed effects my brain/energy performance for the rest of the day, making the whole day a drag and lacking motivation. That's why I made a rule to only do it at night.

 

However from these observations, I can see why the vitamin c + caffeine may enhance my performance when running. As vitamin c helps counteract the vasocontriction adrenaline causes, thus allowing a better circulation of adrenaline throughout the body.

 

I would also like to point out that for the high amount of caffeine in my body right now (1 and 1/2 cans of rockstar, roughly 240mg of caffeine), my body/mind is handling it very well. I can still feel I've taken wayyy too much caffeine for optimum performace. However this observation shows me how well my mind/body seems to be handling a caffeine overdose when taken along side with vitamin c. In general vitamin c considerably lowers the caffeine's negative side effects, and is causing me to stay much calmer than I should be. Right now I feel the heat/adrenaline rushing through my body in waves. The pissed off feeling, the lowered tolerance and patience, and me snapping, are just being kept beneath bay thanks to the vitamin c. However this wave feeling of frustration lurking just underneath my skin is not enjoyable; it's just not overcome me like it usually would with this much caffeine/adrenaline in my system, which is really impressive to see. And I'm not a guy prone to wrath or anger; I'm generally quite calm and laid back (but these traits change with large amounts of caffeine/adrenaline in my system).

 

Also I've never been addicted to caffeine. But I find I can easily take too much (like I did this morning), because of how easy it is to drink energy drinks. Really I need to replace my energy drink with a smaller can (red bull for example), or drink tea or coffee instead (though I'd prefer an energy drink).

 

I think today's observation showed me more of the massive effect of vitamin c's buffering capabilities of too much caffeine, than it did it's nootropic effect (which wasn't as good). One of the reason being, the last time I had a powerful nootropic effect, I had been dosing vitamin c throughout the day for much longer. I had also ingested the 2 rockstars 3-4 hours apart (remember I was trying to pull an all nighter). However this time I ingested the rockstars (1 and 1/2 cans) too close to each other, and had only been ingesting vitamin c since I awoke, which is only a 3 hour period.

 

Anyway they're my updates. Ingesting much smaller doses of caffeine, with high doses of vitamin c throughout the day is what I'll be looking forward to experiment with next.

Vitamin C definitely has an N.O boosting effect...though I suppose I'm a little sensitive to it, anything over the 400% gives me a persistent woody. lol

[Mr Serendipity]

http://www.deepdyve....s-in-ZgYvrPz9tr

http://anabolicmen.c...d-nitric-oxide/

 

Well here's a study that gives a connection between vitamin c and increased NO production. Though it was only when garlic was also added there was a significant difference. But it is noted vitamin c gave a slight difference to NO levels.

 

I'm not consuming garlic but I'm still getting an NO effect from vitamin c. So maybe it's something to do with my high doses.

Edited by manny, 20 October 2014 - 08:39 PM.

[Mr Serendipity]

Well guys, I don't really know how much I slept last night. The night went through intermediate periods of looking at the clock, and maybe being asleep. Whatever the case, I didn't sleep well.

 

These are the symptoms I had:

 

1. Insomnia

 

2. Really shallow breathing. For example I tried to control my breathing and take deep breaths, but even when taking these deep breaths, it didn't feel like I was getting the air/oxygen my body wanted. Almost akin to when I'm thirsty and the only thing that will satisfy my thirst is plain old water; if I drink anything else, whether it be juices (orange, apple), soda, or whatever, it never feels satisfying. In fact this is the reason I never drink anything other than water; it's not because waters the healthiest and meant to be good for me (that's one reason), but I find soda's, juices, and everything else not satifying at all. Even drinking the energy drink I do so because of the caffeine and such, but I drink a load of water after it because it makes me feel thirsty. Anyway that's what my breathing felt like, unsatisfying.

 

3. Stuffy nose.

 

4. I was getting a lot of erections and felt really horny?!?!

 

So there you have it, I have 3 negative symptoms and 1 positive one, which all effected my ability to get a good night sleep. I think the vitamin c must be doing some internal cleaning or something, detoxing perhaps. As from what I read of people's accounts who have taken megadoses of vitamin c for years, they get no side effects except maybe diarrhea, where they just need to adjust their dose. Also I had a lot of diarrhea yesterday, but I was just taking my vitamin c lavishly throughout the day.

 

Today I'm going to do a more planned approach. 2g x 4 times a day.  So 2g in the morning, 2g at lunch, 2g at dinner, 2g before bed. That's my main goal with vitamin c anyway, as I don't care about going any higher than 8g a day (except if I feel the onset of a cold/flu approaching). I haven't done the research or looked into the benefits of mega mega doses of vitamin c (15g-40g a day). But from a general feeling, I'm thinking 8g is enough for me and my long term supplementation plan. It just seems like the right number; I like it.

 

Also the insomnia from last night could have been from the 240mg of caffeine I drank yesterday morning. Remember I am a caffeine sensitive person, and that was a stupid dose of caffeine. I'll give you an example of how high that dose is. Right now I just drank a large Red Bull (BTW I like the taste of Rockstar 10x better than Red Bull). Anyway a 355ml large (not normal size) Red Bull contains 113mg of caffeine. One Rockstar contains 160mg! So yeah, I ingested very large doses of caffeine yesterday. Yet I'm extremely surprised how well vitamin c buffered the negative effects of such a high dose.

 

Also I'd like to reiterate again that I do not usually drink energy drinks or have loads of caffeine in general. It started off originally to help me pull an all nighter so I could reset my sleeping pattern (which worked). However during this time I was also messing around with taking lavish amounts of vitamin c throughout the day, and that's when I discovered an amazing synergy effect between the energy drinks and vitamin c. Now remember this is very surprising for me as I've never been able to experience the positive effects of caffeine previously, as you can read my usual symptoms I get from caffeine in the first post. Even Thainine and Caffeine was a complete failure. But from what little experimenting I've done thus far, Caffeine and high doses of Vitamin C rocks as a nootropic stack! Anyway the reason I wanted to reiterate this statement, is so I don't get a load of flack about how bad energy drinks are. Yeah I know they're bad, I'm just currently experimentation the best dose and source of caffeine needed to give me the best results with vitamin c.

 

Lastly I want to mention that when driving home last night when it was dark (my car lights were on, I mean it was night time/dark sky/no sun). Things seemed so much clearer and sharper. Almost like my acetycholine had been raised significantly. It was sort of surreal, as my mind was thinking a lot, but was also switching into a Zen like state where I would notice the sharpness and clarity of my surrounding (road signs, the lines on the road, anything lit up basically) and I became very much one with my steering wheal when turning corners and driving in general. But like I said I kept flipping between thinking/automatic driving and then being zen focused on my driving. While in normal circumstances I guess it's sort of the same, but I'm more on the thinking/daydreaming/automation side. And when I do focus on the road (in normal circumstances), the focus isn't the same I achieved last night. The focus last night was more intense, zen like, I moved the wheel to turn the corner and felt part of my actions. Basically I think I achieved a bit of the Flow state last night, i.e. being in the zone.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ow_(psychology)

 

However I can't discount the fact that I was also tired around that time, having woken up at 4:30am and my body is still adjusting to the new sleep pattern. Infact I think the tirdness affected my self control, as I acted on an urge to pull into the 2nd lane quickly like they do in the movies and forumla 1 when overtaking. Obviously when you're going 70-90mph down a dual carrigeway, and after checking no one else is coming down the 2nd lane, pulling into the 2nd lane to overtake should take a gradual 2-3 seconds where you slightly turn the wheel. Rather I did a movie/forumla 1 stunt where I sharply turned the wheel and straightened it again. Luckily I'm an awesome driver, I've never had an accident, and make sure I'm well aware of my surroundings. But it's not a smart thing to do, especially since I've rarely practiced that manuver or had any form of proper training. 

 

Anyway what I can tell you. Is either Caffeine, Vitamin C, or Tiredness, or the combination or 2 or 3. Had helped me achieve an intermittent flow/zen/zone like state.

 

I'm hoping with more experimentation with Caffeine and Vitamin C, I'll be able to achieve this state more often. This is why we're all here experimenting with nootropics right? To try and achieve states that enhance our ability to learn and focus. We all sort of know what the flow state is meant to be like. It's pretty much the opposite of daydreaming, rather it's an intense focus where time flies by, and you're working at your optimum performance. So it will be very exciting if Vitamin C and Caffeine can help reproduce this effect more often in our lives.

 

But these are just thoughts and observations of what might have happened. Also note yesterday was the 2nd day I've experimented with the combo Caffeine and Vitamin C, and today will be the 3rd day. Some days I missed out as I had to travel to London, and I like my experiments to be nearer to my home toilet lol. But what I'm saying is it's still early days. One thing I can note for other people though, is the effects of caffeine and vitamin c seem to be instant. You don't need to be taking it for weeks before you notice an effect (which makes sense at vitamin c is excreted from the body in around 4-6 hours I think, whatever the case I know it's not stored). So if today you started using mega doses of ascorbic acid spread throughout the day along side with caffeine; you may very well experience some of the things I have been.

 

Anyway I've jabbered on again. Who's knows what this combo will bring, early days, but I'm excited, and hoping this doesn't bring tolerance or need cycling like almost all other things do. Some reason I feel vitamin c wouldn't, while the caffeine maybe. Anyway enough!

Edited by manny, 21 October 2014 - 04:55 AM.

[Mr Serendipity]

Some reason it won't let me edit my last post. But I forgot to say 1 of the symptoms I was getting which effected my sleep was indegestion/nausea. In fact I think this was the main cause of insomnia/improper sleep last night.

 

For the last 10 minutes I've been experiencing major nausea where I felt on the urge of vomiting, and that's due to the 226mg of caffeine I drank from 2 large cans of red bull earlier and the lack of proper sleep last night.

 

Luckily the nausea has subsided 70% by drinking a lot of water and eating some raw powedered oats with sugar to soak it up. Infact I think when I ingest large amounts of caffeine, I don't really eat much as it surpresses my appetite, and the nausea amplifies when you overdose on caffeine and have no food in your digestive tract. Luckily I googled how to stop nausea caused by caffeine, and it reminded me to eat something.

 

I also feel sleepy due to the lack of sleep last night, and feel I might crash. I actually have to go to work later, so I might try and squeeze in a 2-3 hour nap now. But I hate napping because, yes, it screws up my sleep pattern, usually because I end up napping 6 hours lol. But if I take 2-3 hour nap, I should be ok for tonight.

 

Also I only took 2g of vitamin c thus far, which is not high enough to counteract the negative side effects of the caffeine overdose (226mg) to a large degree.

 

But from the last 3 experiments with caffeine, I think I'm now going to stop experimenting with it. Well sort of, mainly stop experimenting with energy drinks as a caffeine source. Even if I used them responsibly, like take a 1/4 of a can of rockstar or something; it's still just a lot of hassle, and the temptation to drink more is there. I'm gonna skip coffee as that gives me nausea normally anyway. I think I'm going to have to go straight to 1 or 2 cups of: tea, earl grey, hot in the morning; though from reading online, tea can be anywhere between 20-80mg. So maybe I'll just have 1 cup and stick to that, because 80mg seems like a lot to me.

 

I mean if I had 2 tea's, and they contained 80mg of caffeine in each, then that would be 160mg of caffeine which is the same as the 500ml rockstar energy drink. So I'll figure it out tomorrow what I'll drink. But as you can tell I'm sick (pun intended) of caffeine at the moment. But am still majorly impressed with vitamin c's buffering ability of caffeine. Infact the vitamin c did a brilliant job counteracting the negative side effects on all levels, and can only imagine how much worse I would feel right now if I wasn't taking it.

 

Anyway time to prepare for a nap once this nausea subsides some more.

Edited by manny, 21 October 2014 - 07:21 AM.

[Area-1255]

Well guys, I don't really know how much I slept last night. The night went through intermediate periods of looking at the clock, and maybe being asleep. Whatever the case, I didn't sleep well.

 

These are the symptoms I had:

 

1. Insomnia

 

2. Really shallow breathing. For example I tried to control my breathing and take deep breaths, but even when taking these deep breaths, it didn't feel like I was getting the air/oxygen my body wanted. Almost akin to when I'm thirsty and the only thing that will satisfy my thirst is plain old water; if I drink anything else, whether it be juices (orange, apple), soda, or whatever, it never feels satisfying. In fact this is the reason I never drink anything other than water; it's not because waters the healthiest and meant to be good for me (that's one reason), but I find soda's, juices, and everything else not satifying at all. Even drinking the energy drink I do so because of the caffeine and such, but I drink a load of water after it because it makes me feel thirsty. Anyway that's what my breathing felt like, unsatisfying.

 

3. Stuffy nose.

 

4. I was getting a lot of erections and felt really horny?!?!

 

So there you have it, I have 3 negative symptoms and 1 positive one, which all effected my ability to get a good night sleep. I think the vitamin c must be doing some internal cleaning or something, detoxing perhaps. As from what I read of people's accounts who have taken megadoses of vitamin c for years, they get no side effects except maybe diarrhea, where they just need to adjust their dose. Also I had a lot of diarrhea yesterday, but I was just taking my vitamin c lavishly throughout the day.

 

Today I'm going to do a more planned approach. 2g x 4 times a day.  So 2g in the morning, 2g at lunch, 2g at dinner, 2g before bed. That's my main goal with vitamin c anyway, as I don't care about going any higher than 8g a day (except if I feel the onset of a cold/flu approaching). I haven't done the research or looked into the benefits of mega mega doses of vitamin c (15g-40g a day). But from a general feeling, I'm thinking 8g is enough for me and my long term supplementation plan. It just seems like the right number; I like it.

 

Also the insomnia from last night could have been from the 240mg of caffeine I drank yesterday morning. Remember I am a caffeine sensitive person, and that was a stupid dose of caffeine. I'll give you an example of how high that dose is. Right now I just drank a large Red Bull (BTW I like the taste of Rockstar 10x better than Red Bull). Anyway a 355ml large (not normal size) Red Bull contains 113mg of caffeine. One Rockstar contains 160mg! So yeah, I ingested very large doses of caffeine yesterday. Yet I'm extremely surprised how well vitamin c buffered the negative effects of such a high dose.

 

Also I'd like to reiterate again that I do not usually drink energy drinks or have loads of caffeine in general. It started off originally to help me pull an all nighter so I could reset my sleeping pattern (which worked). However during this time I was also messing around with taking lavish amounts of vitamin c throughout the day, and that's when I discovered an amazing synergy effect between the energy drinks and vitamin c. Now remember this is very surprising for me as I've never been able to experience the positive effects of caffeine previously, as you can read my usual symptoms I get from caffeine in the first post. Even Thainine and Caffeine was a complete failure. But from what little experimenting I've done thus far, Caffeine and high doses of Vitamin C rocks as a nootropic stack! Anyway the reason I wanted to reiterate this statement, is so I don't get a load of flack about how bad energy drinks are. Yeah I know they're bad, I'm just currently experimentation the best dose and source of caffeine needed to give me the best results with vitamin c.

 

Lastly I want to mention that when driving home last night when it was dark (my car lights were on, I mean it was night time/dark sky/no sun). Things seemed so much clearer and sharper. Almost like my acetycholine had been raised significantly. It was sort of surreal, as my mind was thinking a lot, but was also switching into a Zen like state where I would notice the sharpness and clarity of my surrounding (road signs, the lines on the road, anything lit up basically) and I became very much one with my steering wheal when turning corners and driving in general. But like I said I kept flipping between thinking/automatic driving and then being zen focused on my driving. While in normal circumstances I guess it's sort of the same, but I'm more on the thinking/daydreaming/automation side. And when I do focus on the road (in normal circumstances), the focus isn't the same I achieved last night. The focus last night was more intense, zen like, I moved the wheel to turn the corner and felt part of my actions. Basically I think I achieved a bit of the Flow state last night, i.e. being in the zone.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ow_(psychology)

 

However I can't discount the fact that I was also tired around that time, having woken up at 4:30am and my body is still adjusting to the new sleep pattern. Infact I think the tirdness affected my self control, as I acted on an urge to pull into the 2nd lane quickly like they do in the movies and forumla 1 when overtaking. Obviously when you're going 70-90mph down a dual carrigeway, and after checking no one else is coming down the 2nd lane, pulling into the 2nd lane to overtake should take a gradual 2-3 seconds where you slightly turn the wheel. Rather I did a movie/forumla 1 stunt where I sharply turned the wheel and straightened it again. Luckily I'm an awesome driver, I've never had an accident, and make sure I'm well aware of my surroundings. But it's not a smart thing to do, especially since I've rarely practiced that manuver or had any form of proper training. 

 

Anyway what I can tell you. Is either Caffeine, Vitamin C, or Tiredness, or the combination or 2 or 3. Had helped me achieve an intermittent flow/zen/zone like state.

 

I'm hoping with more experimentation with Caffeine and Vitamin C, I'll be able to achieve this state more often. This is why we're all here experimenting with nootropics right? To try and achieve states that enhance our ability to learn and focus. We all sort of know what the flow state is meant to be like. It's pretty much the opposite of daydreaming, rather it's an intense focus where time flies by, and you're working at your optimum performance. So it will be very exciting if Vitamin C and Caffeine can help reproduce this effect more often in our lives.

 

But these are just thoughts and observations of what might have happened. Also note yesterday was the 2nd day I've experimented with the combo Caffeine and Vitamin C, and today will be the 3rd day. Some days I missed out as I had to travel to London, and I like my experiments to be nearer to my home toilet lol. But what I'm saying is it's still early days. One thing I can note for other people though, is the effects of caffeine and vitamin c seem to be instant. You don't need to be taking it for weeks before you notice an effect (which makes sense at vitamin c is excreted from the body in around 4-6 hours I think, whatever the case I know it's not stored). So if today you started using mega doses of ascorbic acid spread throughout the day along side with caffeine; you may very well experience some of the things I have been.

 

Anyway I've jabbered on again. Who's knows what this combo will bring, early days, but I'm excited, and hoping this doesn't bring tolerance or need cycling like almost all other things do. Some reason I feel vitamin c wouldn't, while the caffeine maybe. Anyway enough!

So I'm not the only one getting spontaneous wood from vitamin c, nice to hear.

[Mr Serendipity]

Ok, I think vitamin c is having an in the background, nootropic effect in my life.

 

For example while at work, my negative inner voice of what I could be doing instead, has lessened. Almost, I don't find work as begrudging as usual.

 

Also I woke up at 3:30am today, though my alarm was set for 4:30am. Not that this means anything. But usually trying to create a productive morning once awoken is quite hard for me. I usually just sit on the computer surfing the net, and realise I wasted my early morning. But today I started practicing the keyboard, and didn't find it tiresome or frustrating for the first 30 mins. Though I've sort of wasted my morning again, and in a sense I don't feel like I have. Infact I've planned out tomorrow morning so I know what I should do, so lets hope I follow it.

 

Basically what I'm trying to say. Is I feel happier and naturally more excited about things and thoughts. Which is naturally giving me the motivation to things, without trying to make myself do them, if you get my drift. I guess it's related to that zen thing I experienced before, but I don't really feel zen. Rather I just feel happier and positive minded.

 

Anyway I hope more people will experiment with vitamin c as a nootropic. I think people, just as I did, underestimate this simple vitamin, especially since it's the most talked about vitamin, so we tend to think it's just hyped up and overrated, and it's only use is disease/immune system. But I'm starting to think this is now one of the best vitamins I've taken for general well being and mind.

 

Also the connection I can make to the nootropic effect, is how vitamin c is important for the adrenal glands. So cortisol and stress is probably being controlled much better. And that research paper which shows it's effect in the brain.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19162177

 

The highest concentrations of ascorbate in the body are found in the brain and in neuroendocrine tissues such as adrenal, although the brain is the most difficult organ to deplete of ascorbate. Combined with regional asymmetry in ascorbate distribution within different brain areas, these facts suggest an important role for ascorbate in the brain. Ascorbate is proposed as a neuromodulator of glutamatergic, dopaminergic, cholinergic, and GABAergic transmission and related behaviors. Neurodegenerative diseases typically involve high levels of oxidative stress and thus ascorbate has been posited to have potential therapeutic roles against ischemic stroke, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, and Huntington's disease.

 

Edited by manny, 23 October 2014 - 07:42 AM.

[Mr Serendipity]

Scientists discover new role for vitamin C in the eye and the brain

 

 

Nerve cells in the eye require vitamin C in order to function properly -- a surprising discovery that may mean vitamin C is required elsewhere in the brain for its proper functioning, according to a study by scientists at Oregon Health & Science University recently published in the Journal of Neuroscience.

 

"We found that cells in the retina need to be 'bathed' in relatively high doses of vitamin C, inside and out, to function properly," said Henrique von Gersdorff, Ph.D., a senior scientist at OHSU's Vollum Institute and a co-author of the study. "Because the retina is part of the central nervous system, this suggests there's likely an important role for vitamin C throughout our brains, to a degree we had not realized before."

 

The brain has special receptors, called GABA-type receptors, that help modulate the rapid communication between cells in the brain. GABA receptors in the brain act as an inhibitory "brake" on excitatory neurons in the brain. The OHSU researchers found that these GABA-type receptors in the retinal cells stopped functioning properly when vitamin C was removed.

Because retinal cells are a kind of very accessible brain cell, it's likely that GABA receptors elsewhere in the brain also require vitamin C to function properly, von Gersdorff said. And because vitamin C is a major natural antioxidant, it may be that it essentially 'preserves' the receptors and cells from premature breakdown, von Gersdorff said.

 

The function of vitamin C in the brain is not well understood. In fact, when the human body is deprived of vitamin C, the vitamin stays in the brain longer than anyplace else in the body. "Perhaps the brain is the last place you want to lose vitamin C," von Gersdorff said. The findings also may offer a clue as to why scurvy -- which results from a severe lack of vitamin C -- acts the way it does, von Gersdorff said. One of the common symptoms of scurvy is depression, and that may come from the lack of vitamin C in the brain.

 

The findings could have implications for other diseases, like glaucoma and epilepsy. Both conditions are caused by the dysfunction of nerve cells in the retina and brain that become over excited in part because GABA receptors may not be functioning properly.

 

"For example, maybe a vitamin C-rich diet could be neuroprotective for the retina -- for people who are especially prone to glaucoma," von Gersdorff said. "This is speculative and there is much to learn. But this research provides some important insights and will lead to the generation of new hypotheses and potential treatment strategies."

 

Scientists and students in von Gerdorff's lab in OHSU's Vollum Institute are dedicated to basic neuroscience research. The vitamin C research work was done using goldfish retinas, which have the same overall biological structure as human retinas.

The retina research work was done by Ph.D. student Evan Vickers, working as part of the von Gersdorff lab. The work was in collaboration with Cecilia Calero in the lab of Dr. Daniel J. Calvo from the University of Buenos Aires, Argentina, and Gustavo Cid and Luis Aguayo from the University of Concepcion, Chile.

 

The work was funded by the Consejo Nacional de Investigaciones Científicas y Tecnicas (Argentina), the Pew Foundation, the International Brain Research Organization and the National Eye Institute of the National Institutes of Health.

The study was published online in the June 29 issue of the Journal of Neuroscience, which is the official journal of the Society for Neuroscience

http://www.scienceda...10715135353.htm

[Mr Serendipity]

Vitamin C crosses the blood-brain barrier in the oxidized form through the glucose transporters.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9389750

 

Vitamin C concentrations in the brain exceed those in blood by 10-fold. In both tissues, the vitamin is present primarily in the reduced form, ascorbic acid. We identified the chemical form of vitamin C that readily crosses the blood-brain barrier, and the mechanism of this process. Ascorbic acid was not able to cross the blood-brain barrier in our studies. In contrast, the oxidized form of vitamin C, dehydroascorbic acid (oxidized ascorbic acid), readily entered the brain and was retained in the brain tissue in the form of ascorbic acid. Transport of dehydroascorbic acid into the brain was inhibited by d-glucose, but not by l-glucose. The facilitative glucose transporter, GLUT1, is expressed on endothelial cells at the blood-brain barrier, and is responsible for glucose entry into the brain. This study provides evidence showing that GLUT1 also transports dehydroascorbic acid into the brain. The findings define the transport of dehydroascorbic acid by GLUT1 as a mechanism by which the brain acquires vitamin C, and point to the oxidation of ascorbic acid as a potentially important regulatory step in accumulation of the vitamin by the brain. These results have implications for increasing antioxidant potential in the central nervous system.

 

Does vitamin C deficiency result in impaired brain development in infants?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19161672

 

 

Scurvy, the rare but potentially mortal manifestation of severe and prolonged lack of vitamin C, is often confused with hypovitaminosis C, i.e. the mere definition of vitamin C deficiency. While the latter condition can be diagnosed in millions, the clinical consequences (if they exist) remain largely unknown, since only a tiny fraction of those deficient in vitamin C actually develop clinical scurvy. Is hypovitaminosis C itself a problem at all then? Yes, it may well be in some cases. Recent data from our laboratory suggest that the neonatal brain is particularly susceptible to vitamin C deficiency and that this condition may adversely affect early brain development.

 

Edited by manny, 23 October 2014 - 07:52 AM.

[Mr Serendipity]

Foetus Suffers Brain Problems When Mother Lack Vitamin C http://medimoon.com/...lack-vitamin-c/

 

Foetal brain can have severe consequences due to maternal vitamin C deficiency during pregnancy that cannot be reversed by taking vitamin C after birth, according to the latest research published in the journal of Plos One.

 

It is estimated that approximately 10 to 20% adults worldwide are suffering from vitamin C deficiency.

 

“Even marginal vitamin C deficiency in the mother stunts the foetal hippocampus, the important memory centre, by 10-15 per cent, preventing the brain from optimal development,” says Professor Jens Lykkesfeldt. He heads the group of scientists that reached this conclusion by studying pregnant guinea pigs and their pups. Just like humans, guinea pigs cannot produce vitamin C themselves, which is why they were chosen as the model.

 

“We used to think that the mother could protect the baby. Ordinarily there is a selective transport from mother to foetus of the substances the baby needs during pregnancy. However, it now appears that the transport is not sufficient in the case of vitamin C deficiency. Therefore it is extremely important to draw attention to this problem, which potentially can have serious consequences for the children affected,” says Jens Lykkesfeldt.

 

This study has focused on mother’s life style and nutritional status during pregnancy. The damage to the brain of fetus is such that it cannot be recovered even if vitamin C is administered to the baby was said by the researchers.

 

This study was conducted on guinea pig pups by dividing them into two groups. They gave vitamin C to the one group and second group was considered as a control group. Researchers did not found any sign of improvement in pups that were fed vitamin C when the pups were two months old, which corresponds to teenage in humans.

 

Now researchers are trying to investigate that how early in the pregnancy vitamin C affects the brain of foetus.

People with low economic status who eat poorly – and perhaps also smoke – often suffer from vitamin C deficiency. Comparatively speaking, their children risk being born with a poorly developed memory potential. These children may encounter learning problems, and seen in a societal context, history repeats itself because these children find it more difficult to escape the environment into which they are born,” says Jens Lykkesfeldt.

 

He emphasises that if pregnant women eat a varied diet, do not smoke, and for instance take a multi-vitamin tablet daily during pregnancy, there is no reason to fear vitamin C deficiency.

 

“Because it takes so little to avoid vitamin C deficiency, it is my hope that both politicians and the authorities will become aware that this can be a potential problem,” concludes Jens Lykkesfeldt.

 

The funding to this study was provided by the grants from the Danish National Research Council (#FSS271-08-0763) and the LIFEPHARM Centre in Denmark to JL and the Swiss National Science Foundation (310030_120725) to SC.

 

 

 

Maternal Vitamin C Deficiency during Pregnancy Persistently Impairs Hippocampal Neurogenesis in Offspring of Guinea Pigs

http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0048488

 

 

While having the highest vitamin C (VitC) concentrations in the body, specific functions of VitC in the brain have only recently been acknowledged. We have shown that postnatal VitC deficiency in guinea pigs causes impairment of hippocampal memory function and leads to 30% less neurons. This study investigates how prenatal VitC deficiency affects postnatal hippocampal development and if any such effect can be reversed by postnatal VitC repletion. Eighty pregnant Dunkin Hartley guinea pig dams were randomized into weight stratified groups receiving High (900 mg) or Low (100 mg) VitC per kg diet. Newborn pups (n = 157) were randomized into a total of four postnatal feeding regimens: High/High (Control); High/Low (Depleted), Low/Low (Deficient); and Low/High (Repleted). Proliferation and migration of newborn cells in the dentate gyrus was assessed by BrdU labeling and hippocampal volumes were determined by stereology. Prenatal VitC deficiency resulted in a significant reduction in postnatal hippocampal volume (P<0.001) which was not reversed by postnatal repletion. There was no difference in postnatal cellular proliferation and survival rates in the hippocampus between dietary groups, however, migration of newborn cells into the granular layer of the hippocampus dentate gyrus was significantly reduced in prenatally deficient animals (P<0.01). We conclude that a prenatal VitC deficiency in guinea pigs leads to persistent impairment of postnatal hippocampal development which is not alleviated by postnatal repletion. Our findings place attention on a yet unrecognized consequence of marginal VitC deficiency during pregnancy.

 

Edited by manny, 23 October 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[Mr Serendipity]

So doing a quick google search on vitamin c and the brain. We can see there is a connection with brain health, memory, and neurotransmitters. There is 10 times as much vitamin c in the brain than in the blood, which makes me think the brain seems to need this vitamin for something, or is just being plain greedy.

 

But to be honest, only until these last few weeks, I had no clue that vitamin c was important for the brain at all. And thus I have posted these studies to edify others, and in a hope others will research and try vitamin c for their brains, rather than just for their immune health. I mean this is the brain health forum, and we are all interested in nootropics. I think from the research I've posted, Vitamin C deserves a place here for both brain health and nootropic potential. I can already see some type of nootropic effect from my own experiences.

 

Couple that with the well known facts already known about vitamin c, such as increased blood flow, arterial health, and anitoxidant; and we can see vitamin c being a top all rounder for the brain.

 

I think I'm just more shocked at myself than anything. I overlooked this simple vitamin for wonder drugs and supplements which are meant to be the "awesome" new thing for nootropics, but tend to be hit and miss with side effects included. While vitamin c seems to be more hit than miss; and even when it does miss it's effect as a nootropic, I know it's probably doing something else good in my body (immune system, arterial health, blood flow, Nitric Oxide to name a very few). And at the same time, when it misses it's effect as a nootropic, it doesn't end up giving me any negative side effects, such as brain fog, insomnia, hypomania or such; rather, you just don't feel anything. I'd rather feel nothing from a supplement, than my mental abilities be crippled for the day due chance of that supplement still working the way it's suppose to.

 

Anyway, keep learning!

[Area-1255]

SOD - Superoxide dismutase and copper are both synergistic with vitamin C, tocotrienols and other antioxidants such as glutathione also help amplify the effects of ascorbic acid.

[Turnbuckle]

Back in my college days I pulled an all nighter using caffeine to stay awake, and at about 1 pm something happened, like a door had opened and suddenly I understood everything I read. I read the entire book on materials science and breezed through the next 2/3rds of the semester based on that one study session. I'll have to try this again one day, and add in the C.

[Mr Serendipity]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12208645

 

High-dose ascorbic acid increases intercourse frequency and improves mood: a randomized controlled clinical trial.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Ascorbic acid (AA) modulates catecholaminergic activity, decreases stress reactivity, approach anxiety and prolactin release, improves vascular function, and increases oxytocin release. These processes are relevant to sexual behavior and mood.

METHODS:

In this randomized double-blind, placebo-controlled 14 day trial of sustained-release AA (42 healthy young adults; 3000 mg/day Cetebe) and placebo (39 healthy young adults), subjects with partners recorded penile-vaginal intercourse (FSI), noncoital partner sex, and masturbation in daily diaries, and also completed the Beck Depression Inventory before and after the trial.

RESULTS:

The AA group reported greater FSI (but, as hypothesized, not other sexual behavior) frequency, an effect most prominent in subjects not cohabiting with their sexual partner, and in women. The AA but not placebo group also experienced a decrease in Beck Depression scores.

CONCLUSIONS:

AA appears to increase FSI, and the differential benefit to noncohabitants suggests that a central activation or disinhibition, rather than peripheral mechanism may be responsible.

 

Also, I read this next article awhile back. But now, due to my recent experience, and knowing bleeding gums could be a symptom of vitamin c deficiency, I believe that's what's causing men to be twice as likely to suffer from erectile dysfunction; not their theories on bacteria.

 

http://www.dailymail...ysfunction.html

 

 

Men who have bleeding gums are TWICE as likely to suffer from erectile dysfunction

• Men with severe gum disease have more than double the chance of suffering from the condition
• In people with gum disease, bacteria from the mouth can enter the bloodstream, causing arteries to narrow
• Narrow arteries mean erectile dysfunction is more likely

 

Severe gum disease could cause erectile dysfunction, experts are warning

 

Men who suffer from bleeding gums could be more likely to suffer from erectile dysfunction, experts are warning.

A study has found that men with severe gum disease have more than double the chance of suffering from the condition.

 

The research, published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine, explained that when people suffer from gum disease, bacteria from their mouth can enter their blood.

 

Once in the bloodstream, the bacteria can affect the blood vessels and arteries, causing them to harden and narrow - as they do with heart disease.

 

This effect upon the blood vessels increases the risk of erectile dysfunction.

 

Indeed, more and more research is showing that erectile dysfunction is an early warning sign of heart disease.

 

This is because the body needs a good blood supply for an erection and the blood vessels in that region are smaller than those, say, near the heart, so become furred up faster.’

 

However, the nature of the association between bacteria and heart disease is not fully understood.

SIGNS OF GUM DISEASE

Bleeding gums

Bad breath

Loose teeth

Red, inflamed/receding gums

Build-up of tartar on the teeth

 

It has been suggested that the bacteria may trigger a harmful immune system response, causing blood vessels to become inflamed, or contribute to the fatty deposits in arteries.

 

The researchers, from the Inonu University, Turkey, studied a group of men with erectile dysfunction and a group of men without it.

 

They found that 53 per cent of those with erectile dysfunction had severe gum disease, while only 23 per cent of those without it had the disease.

 

Commenting on the research, Dr Nigel Carter, chief executive of the British Dental Health Foundation, said: 'The link may seem frivolous, but the research clearly points to severe gum disease as a possible cause of erectile dysfunction.

 

Men with severe gum disease have more than double the chance of suffering from erectile dysfunction

 

‘Not only does oral health become a problem, self-confidence, esteem and relationships could suffer, too. To avoid it even becoming an issue, there are a number of things you can do to stop gum disease from developing.

 

‘Removing food stuck in between your teeth close to gum lines is a really important step to preventing gum disease. Using interdental brushes or flossing is the best way of doing this.

 

‘Brushing alone only cleans 60 per cent of the tooth's surface, so this is an excellent way of keeping plaque - the cause of gum disease - at bay.’

 

 

Edited by manny, 24 October 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[gamesguru]

If you add lemon to your tea, there is chemistry, the alkaloids and theanine are much more soluble in the lower pH.  Same thing might be used for hand-drip coffee.

 

But, as pointed out above, there is also biology.. moderately high NE is increasingly being seen as a good thing.  The amount of vitamin C from a squeeze of lemon is unlikely to exceed 5mg, so it is remarkable there is any effect at all.  Uptake modulation as well as metabolic and synergistic effects of the flavonoids, ascorbates, and acids play a huge role.

http://www.purdue.ed...erruzziTea.html

November 13, 2007

Citrus juice, vitamin C give staying power to green tea antioxidants WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. - Mario Ferruzzi
Download photo
caption below To get more out of your next cup of tea, just add juice.

A study found that citrus juices enable more of green tea's unique antioxidants to remain after simulated digestion, making the pairing even healthier than previously thought.

 

The study compared the effect of various beverage additives on catechins, naturally occurring antioxidants found in tea. Results suggest that complementing green tea with either citrus juices or vitamin C likely increases the amount of catechins available for the body to absorb.

"Although these results are preliminary, I think it's encouraging that a big part of the puzzle comes down to simple chemistry," said Mario Ferruzzi, assistant professor of food science at Purdue University and the study's lead author.

 

Catechins (pronounced KA'-teh-kins), display health-promoting qualities and may be responsible for some of green tea's reported health benefits, like reduced risk of cancer, heart attack and stroke. The problem, Ferruzzi said, is that catechins are relatively unstable in non-acidic environments, such as the intestines, and less than 20 percent of the total remains after digestion. 

 

"Off the bat you are eliminating a large majority of the catechins from plain green tea," Ferruzzi said. "We have to address this fact if we want to improve bodily absorption."  

 

Ferruzzi tested juices, creamers and other additives that are either commonly added to fresh-brewed tea or used to make ready-to-drink tea products by putting them through a model simulating gastric and small-intestinal digestion. Citrus juice increased recovered catechin levels by more than five times, the study found. Ascorbic acid, or vitamin C, used to increase shelf life in ready-to-drink products, increased recovered levels of the two most abundant catechins by sixfold and 13-fold, respectively.

 

The study, published this month in Molecular Nutrition and Food Research, also found that soy, dairy and rice milk appeared to have moderate stabilizing effects. But Ferruzzi said the result is misleading; a chemical interaction between milk proteins and tea catechins apparently helps shelter the complex from degradation, a force likely overcome by enzymes within a healthy human digestive system.

 

Lemons and tea go even better together than their popularity might suggest. Lemon juice caused 80 percent of tea's catechins to remain, the study found. Following lemon, in terms of stabilizing power, were orange, lime and grapefruit juices. Ferruzzi said both vitamin C and citrus juices must interact with catechins to prevent their degradation in the intestines, although data made it clear that citrus juices have stabilizing effects beyond what would be predicted solely based on their vitamin C content.

 

"If you want more out of your green tea, add some citrus juice to your cup after brewing or pick a ready-to-drink product formulated with ascorbic acid," Ferruzzi said.  Ready-to-drink green tea products should optimally contain 100-200 mg of catechins, but oftentimes do not have sufficient levels of tea extract since some people do not like green tea's flavor, Ferruzzi said.

 

Although this study only examined green tea, Ferruzzi said he suspects that some of the results also could apply to black tea, which is produced by fermenting green tea. Many prefer black tea's flavor, although it contains lower total levels of catechins.

 

Studies have shown catechins from the green tea plant, Camellia sinensis, are able to detoxify toxic chemicals, inhibit cancer cell activity and stimulate production of immune-strengthening enzymes. Finding methods to improve uptake of these catechins may, therefore, be important in improving health, part of the study's goal, Ferruzzi said.

The study was funded by the National Institutes of Health.

 

Ferruzzi currently is conducting an in vivo study, or study on a live organism, to quantify the ability of juices and vitamin C to increase levels of catechins in the intestines and bloodstream of animals and, by extension, in humans. He collaborates with the NIH-funded Purdue Botanicals Research Center on this project.

 

"This next study is designed to get us past the limitations imposed by our digestive model, which is really just a simple screening process that relies on preset physiology parameters," he said. "Human digestion is a lot more complicated."

 

To see if juices and vitamin C actually increase catechin absorption, researchers will have to find out if increased levels of intestinal catechins translate to higher levels of absorbed catechins in live animals and humans. They also will need to better document effects upon catechin metabolism in order to prove, for instance, that increased levels of absorbed catechins are not leveled off by metabolic factors, Ferruzzi said.

 

"This study tells us a lot of interesting things, but it raises many questions that have yet to be answered," he said.

[Mr Serendipity]

I'm experimenting with vitamin C megadoses again, because I didn't get the insomnia side effect yesterday when I megadosed it and drank a few energy drinks. I was forcing myself to stay up though to reset my sleeping pattern, didn't work, I crashed around 5pm, but after waking up at 12am I felt pretty damn refreshed and awesome, then again I took a trytophan early on, 60mg of zinc gluconate, and I didn't take my usual stack.

 

But when it comes to insomnia, I feel I have a different view of it now, if I can possibly utilize it and get the same effect I got today. There's the insomnia where you're tired and wired, due to a supplement or whatever, and you wake up unrefreshed. Then there's the ability to stay up past waking time, be functional, crash, get a great sleep, wake up feeling fine without lack of sleep, like I did today.

 

 

I feel there's a way to utilise caffeine and vitamin c, along with other supplements, to get this effect.

 

I'll have to stop taking my normal stack for now, and just try with what I took yesterday.

 

A plan something like this:

 

All in the morning upon awakening:

 

5-15g vitamin c 

60mg Zinc gluconate

300mg Alpha GPC

500mg Tryptophan

2-3 energy Drinks (or some other form of caffeine)

Then wake up early enough to crash later on. Like wake up at 4am or something, and crash around 9pm.

 

That's literally what I've taken now, because I woke up at 12am (because I crashed at 5pm yesterday). If I can crash again, but at a later time, like 8 or 9pm, and then wake up 5am feeling awesome like today, and keep this going, would be great. Hopefully with the addition of tryptophan, zinc, and alpha gpc this time round, it will work better than just vitamin c and caffeine.

 

Edited by Mr Serendipity, 05 December 2023 - 03:11 AM.

[Mr Serendipity]

I should do a quick update on this.

 

I literally still felt so tired yesterday, this was after having 15g vitamin c, 60mg zinc, 300mg Alpha GPC, 500mg tryptophan, and 3 energy drinks. So do you know what I took on top, 15MG YOHIMBINE HCL! And do you know what happened, jack shit! Still felt tired, didn't think I'd make it the next 5 hours, let alone until 8pm.

 

THEN. I ended up taking 5g of Tyrosine. What a freaking difference! I mean I wasn't hyped up or anything on adrenaline (at least I didn't feel like it), but not only was I able to stay awake, I actually ended up doing things I usually lack the motivation to do or put off, when I've had a good sleep and a normal sleep routine. I went and got myself a haircut, then took my son to get his, booked and went to the hygienist same day, and then went shopping. Don't forget I was extremely tired on the aforementioned (15MG Yohimbine HCL, energy drinks, etc...)  before I took the tyrosine. And I was able to crash at 6pm no problem. Didn't get insomnia like I use to when experimenting with high doses or vitamin c, zinc, or caffeine. It's a freaking miracle!

 

It makes me think these last couple of years where my get up and go has been lacking, could just be a tyrosine deficiency or absorption problem. I kind knew it was dopamine based in origin, but taking things like selegiline, or dlpa, or other methods to boost dopamine or adrenaline, didn't seem to work, and got side effects.

 

What's more interesting is GREY HAIR. I'm 35, so I'm not saying I shouldn't have grey hair popping up. But the last couple of years I've had a lot pop up, so much so that my new barber I had yesterday commented on it when cutting my hair, how I'll get a more shiny look. And tyrosine and grey hair are somewhat related. Tyrosine makes melanin through oxidiaxtion, and something to do with melanocyctes in the skin is what gives the hair pigment. And tyrosine can reverse grey hair apparently, but only if that's because your deficient in it.

 

So there may be a link to my positive reaction to tyrosine, and my greying of hair and apathy the last couple of years.

 

Anyway things I learned. Don't need 15g of vitamin C, cause I don't need to be pooping that much. I settled for 5g today, hopefully will be enough.

 

Morning:

 

5g Tyrosine

5g Vitamin C

300mg Alpha GPC

60mg Zinc Gluconate

2-3 energy drinks

 

+ my massive stack I already have.

 

Evening:

 

0.5-1g Tryptophan

 

 

Anyway feeling pretty amazing today. Already taken the morning stack, and on my 4th energy drink, but not stressed or tweaked out. Hopefully I'll crash tonight at 9pm and get great sleep again. Exciting times. Also for the fact I can up my dose of vitamin c and zinc without getting insomnia, because I need it for some bad wound healing on my ear I couldn't fix these last 2 years, and it seemed to help, but I always had to drop it due to the insomnia it caused.

 

Another thing I noticed, 60mg Zinc gluconate cures my lactose intolerance. 

 

I wonder how many of my issues stem from when I got covid, it seems weird my energy and health continues to deteriorate since I got it, and when I got it, I got it bad. 

 

Anyway lets see where this goes. Will be great if I can feel like this everyday, establish a good sleeping pattern, and avoid tyrosine tolerance.

 

 

 

Edit: On 5th energy drink for better or worse. Lets see how this pans out tonight with sleep and sleep routine. I will say though, vitamin c really does make caffeine amazingly more tolerable. 

Edited by Mr Serendipity, 06 December 2023 - 11:26 AM.

[Rich D]

I would not recommend that anyone drink 2-5 energy drinks (assuming the heavily caffeinated kind) a day.

[Mr Serendipity]

Yeah I’ve done it for self experimentation, it’s not a regular thing.
 

I drank around 1750ml of energy drink this morning, and they have 32mg caffeine per 100ml. So it looks like I consumed 560mg of caffeine within about a couple of hours. By taking the 5g vitamin c as well, I haven’t noticed much positive or negative tbh.

 

Tbh, I just don’t think I do well with stimulants. In the past I was super sensitive to them and had to avoid them cause they caused me insomnia. Now with vitamin c I can tolerate them amazingly well, but it doesn’t feel like the caffeine increases my alertness much or benefitting me cognitively.

 

But then again, I think I liked the idea of being alert and productive upon awakening at a good time, and then crashing at nigh, with a good sleeping pattern. I’m probably going to transition to tyrosine/morning, tryptophan/evening, without any stimulants, and see if that has an effect. If I wake up early enough, like 5am, I should hopefully be able to crash at 9pm. And also the ability to take larger doses of vitamin c and zinc for wound healing without it causing insomnia.

 

Time will tell.